Official October 2005 Budget Thread

[CheeseWhiz]

I'll try and keep this polite by not responding. I'm afraid it wouldn't be terribly pleasant if I did.

FWIW, I'm sorry if anything I said upset you, that wasn't my intent

[Platypus]

I'll PM you. Please read it with a grain of salt.

[12th Doctor]

Well, here is my round of suggestions.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=31751.15

[CheeseWhiz]

Wow I didn't know making money cost so much

I support this.

[MasterJedi]

They go too far and you're not a senator.

Cheesewhiz, when was the last time you visited a poorer part of the area you live in?

When was the last time you talked to people who need free and good healthcare and education?

Being a libertarian is SO bloody easy if you're middle class. But seriously, next time you see a homeless person, talk to them. Most probably, they're not even accessing the services that are provided. How about talking to the family with a mother with terminal breast cancer, a father with a 12-hour night shift, and three kids?

You can't tell them that you are going to slash healthcare funding, especially medicare and medicaid, and then say 'but it'll make the budget balanced!' and expect them to celebrate the fact. You can't slash education spending and force the kids into a manufacturing job that'll dissapear to China when they're 32 and expect them to celebrate because the budget'll be balanced.

When I was elected, I was elected after promising the people of the pacific to increase the quality of our healthcare. I might not be able to do that because of the budget; not at the moment, anyway.

But I can, I hope, prevent the situation from getting worse.

If you can find cuts in the healthcare budget that doesn't affect the quality of services, i'll probably support it.

If you can do the same with education, great.

But until you know the effects of your 'liberty', don't laugh about the policies you support.

If they pass, many Atlasian's won't be.

I mostly agree with Hugh.

[CheeseWhiz]

Okay, and I respect that, but what do we do then?  We have to cut this deficit, what do you suggest we do?  I’m just looking for alternatives.  If the Insane Chainsaw Bill doesn’t have the support of the Senate, then something else must.

I believe so far that three senators are for the ICB, while two are against.

[12th Doctor]

Guys, we don't need to cut programs, at least, no that much, if we cut back on government agencies.  We should revolutionize the government, not steal food out of the mouths of starving children after we have promised them something to eat.

Most government programs can be structured to co-exist under the same roof and with the same basic goals.  We just need to reshuffle the deck.  Find where redundancies exist, and eliminate them.  We could save billions just by doing that.  It will require a real effort on our part, though.

All these "solutions" that cut programs are not solutions at all.  They only exacerbate the real problem, which is the sagging economy.  We need a real, forward thinking solution, and if we work together to restructure government, we can do that.

[12th Doctor]

And, we might have to entertain the idea of raising taxes.  We should keep business taxes as is, I think we need to in this economic environment, but we are going to need to raise personal income tax by at least 5% in the upper brackets, simply to keep our heads above the water.

I don't want to here any sh**t about "but the rich pat enough already" or "that isn't fair", the fact is that no one here has ever lived under a crisis of this magnitude (though we still might) and all the theories in the world are not going to bring us out of this.  We don't have time to let the economy work itself out.  This is crunch time.

[12th Doctor]

I have another proposal to save some money:

I agree with international aide, in principle and think we should be generous in funding our allies.  However, I think we are all more than aware that we spend billions in aide on countries that are not friendly to our ideals.

Why are we subsidising dictatorship?  I think we should cut, completely, all aide to any country that has recent documented human rights abuses in the past few years and has made no efforts to reform since.  We could save a couple of billion dollars, at least, by doing this.

[Bono]

They were not proposing ideas, Cheesewhiz.

I'm sure some administrative savings could be found in the healthcare budget, and I would certainly support programmes that influenced more Atlasians to take up private health care, lowering the long-term cost, for example. My view is that nothing significant can or should happen in this budget that will massively change the healthcare situation though, but we need to lay the basic plans now.

Not just a slash and burn of social programmes, but a thorough re-working. This budget won't be balanced without a tax increase, and I support and am focussing my attentions on introduction of a GST rather then a raise in income taxation (which should make the libertarians happy, at any rate). But, whilst I agree with the need for some cuts, that shouldn't be our focus. We have this spending for a reason-most of it makes Atlasia a better place for Atlasians. If we can lower the cost and provide the same or better service, that's fantastic. But I will not accept that our first priority should be massive cuts to social spending, or even defence spending (although that could use a bit of a trim). It is just plain wrong to cut social spending ahead of a fair and necessary tax increase, to avoid something that we all loathe, but needs to be done-taxes have to be raised, and once we know the effect of that, then we can more effectively examine our current spending.

My fellow senators and I have a responsibility to leave Atlasia in no worse a position then it was before we took our oaths, and when I consider Atlasia, I consider the people; not the economy. The economy is a servant of the people, and the opposite is not true. We should aim for a good, robust and healthy economy-but not at the expense of well educated, fulfilled and healthy Atlasians.

Cheesewhiz, you're a smart bloke. Work with me here. Move past the perfect scenario of your ideology and have a look at the facts, and also have a look at what will ahppen if we cut spending before raising taxes, or at least alongside tac increases.

What is your rationale for creating a new tax, other than "Australia has it"?

[Bono]

Axe the department of transportation.

[Gabu]

Axe the department of transportation.

I like having roads, thanks.

[Platypus]

They were not proposing ideas, Cheesewhiz.

I'm sure some administrative savings could be found in the healthcare budget, and I would certainly support programmes that influenced more Atlasians to take up private health care, lowering the long-term cost, for example. My view is that nothing significant can or should happen in this budget that will massively change the healthcare situation though, but we need to lay the basic plans now.

Not just a slash and burn of social programmes, but a thorough re-working. This budget won't be balanced without a tax increase, and I support and am focussing my attentions on introduction of a GST rather then a raise in income taxation (which should make the libertarians happy, at any rate). But, whilst I agree with the need for some cuts, that shouldn't be our focus. We have this spending for a reason-most of it makes Atlasia a better place for Atlasians. If we can lower the cost and provide the same or better service, that's fantastic. But I will not accept that our first priority should be massive cuts to social spending, or even defence spending (although that could use a bit of a trim). It is just plain wrong to cut social spending ahead of a fair and necessary tax increase, to avoid something that we all loathe, but needs to be done-taxes have to be raised, and once we know the effect of that, then we can more effectively examine our current spending.

My fellow senators and I have a responsibility to leave Atlasia in no worse a position then it was before we took our oaths, and when I consider Atlasia, I consider the people; not the economy. The economy is a servant of the people, and the opposite is not true. We should aim for a good, robust and healthy economy-but not at the expense of well educated, fulfilled and healthy Atlasians.

Cheesewhiz, you're a smart bloke. Work with me here. Move past the perfect scenario of your ideology and have a look at the facts, and also have a look at what will ahppen if we cut spending before raising taxes, or at least alongside tac increases.

What is your rationale for creating a new tax, other than "Australia has it"?

We need revenue; cuts can/should only go so far.

I would prefer not to raise income taxes, as would most Senators.

A GST is fairer, brings in substantial amounts of revenue, and doesn't hurt the economy any more then income tax increases, perhaps not significantly at all as has been the experience in numerous countries with a GST or similar-including Australia.

[12th Doctor]

Axe the department of transportation.

That might work in a country the size of Tennessee where the average road is a cow path, but that isn't going to cut it here.

[12th Doctor]

This might sound like a stupid question, but why can't we merge the NSA and the CIA?

And, for that matter, the FBI and the ATF?

[Bono]

Axe the department of transportation.

I like having roads, thanks.

Regions can maintin roads too.

[12th Doctor]

Axe the department of transportation.

I like having roads, thanks.

Regions can maintin roads too.

So, we solve our budget problems by leasing them to the regions?  That sounds like a great plan to me.  While we are at it, why don't we just hand the whole deficit over to them, because, at least that will take it off our backs.

[Bono]

Axe the department of transportation.

I like having roads, thanks.

Regions can maintin roads too.

So, we solve our budget problems by leasing them to the regions?  That sounds like a great plan to me.  While we are at it, why don't we just hand the whole deficit over to them, because, at least that will take it off our backs.

Regional governments are more efficient, because they can't just print more money everytime they have a deficit.

[Peter]

There's an idea, lets just print half a trillion dollars.

[12th Doctor]

Axe the department of transportation.

I like having roads, thanks.

Regions can maintin roads too.

So, we solve our budget problems by leasing them to the regions?  That sounds like a great plan to me.  While we are at it, why don't we just hand the whole deficit over to them, because, at least that will take it off our backs.

Regional governments are more efficient, because they can't just print more money everytime they have a deficit.

Funny, I don't think I have ever done that, in fact, I have proposed decreasing the money supply, in case you have not noticed.

At anyrate, throwing our problems on the regions is not going to help, in will just make the regional governments collapse under the preasure.

[CheeseWhiz]

There's an idea, lets just print half a trillion dollars.

Yeah!  I like this idea

[CheeseWhiz]

Axe the department of transportation.

I like having roads, thanks.

Regions can maintin roads too.

I like this idea.  If the Regional Governments can cut back their programs, (and I don’t mean you have to do it to the extreme I took it to, although that would be preferable, ) then the Regions could maintain the roads, which I think would be more efficient then the Feds doing it.  But, I have to agree, it might be a good idea to let the Regions get out of their deficits first, but then if they don’t do that soon this effort won’t really matter…

[12th Doctor]

Axe the department of transportation.

I like having roads, thanks.

Regions can maintin roads too.

I like this idea.  If the Regional Governments can cut back their programs, (and I don’t mean you have to do it to the extreme I took it to, although that would be preferable, ) then the Regions could maintain the roads, which I think would be more efficient then the Feds doing it.  But, I have to agree, it might be a good idea to let the Regions get out of their deficits first, but then if they don’t do that soon this effort won’t really matter…

We aren't going to solve budget problems by pawning them off.  Besides, come here to PA and look a PennDOT, and then try to tell me that state/regions are more efficient than the Federal Government.  That's a joke.

[Bono]

Axe the department of transportation.

I like having roads, thanks.

Regions can maintin roads too.

I like this idea.  If the Regional Governments can cut back their programs, (and I don’t mean you have to do it to the extreme I took it to, although that would be preferable, ) then the Regions could maintain the roads, which I think would be more efficient then the Feds doing it.  But, I have to agree, it might be a good idea to let the Regions get out of their deficits first, but then if they don’t do that soon this effort won’t really matter…

We aren't going to solve budget problems by pawning them off.  Besides, come here to PA and look a PennDOT, and then try to tell me that state/regions are more efficient than the Federal Government.  That's a joke.

Well, keep in mind efficiency is distorted by having to whore for federal funds.

[Defarge]

1. The Elimination of Medicaid Act :
a. Over the next eight months (RL years), the budget for federal budget for Medicaid shall be cut by 12.5%.
b. All acts pertaining to the Medicaid program are to be repealed at the end of this program.
c. $200 million per budget cycle shall be dedicated to assisting the the states in providing their own programs, should they choose to do so.

2. The Department of Education Budget Reduction Act

a. The Federal Department of Education shall have its budget slashed by 90%, starting this cycle. State aid to education shall also be slashed 90%.
b. The Treasury Department will determine how these cuts are enacted.

3.  The Elimination of the Department of Commerce Act

a. The Department of Commerce is hereby eliminated.
b. Any laws relating to the Department of Commerce are repealed.

4. The Elimination of the Department of Housing and Urban Development Act

a. The Department of Housing and Urban Development is hereby eliminated.
b. Any laws relating to the Department of Housing and Urban Development are repealed.

5. Department of Defense Budget Reduction Act

 All non-emergency spending initiatives in the Department of Defense shall have their budgets reduced by 5%.

6. Office of Personell Management Budget Reduction Act

The budget of the Office of Personnel Management shall be slashed 15%.

7.  Department of Agriculture Budget Reduction Act
The budget of the Department of Agriculture shall be slashed 75%.

8. Environmental Protection Agency Budget Reduction Act
The budget of the Environmental Protection Agency shall be slashed 50%.

9. NASA Auction Act
a. the Federal Government shall offer the civilian portion of the National Aeronautics and Space Agency for auction to bidding individuals, foundations, and corporations in the United States.
b. if NASA as a whole is to be placed on auction, the starting bid shall be $10 billion; if it is to be auctioned piece-by-piece, the combined total of starting bids shall be $10 billion.
 
10. Department of Labor Budget Reduction Act
The budget for the Department of Labor shall be slashed 50%.

Even more Chainsawing, just to throw a few billion more into the fire:

1. Department of State Budget Reduction Act

The Department of State's Budget shall be reduced by an additional 10%, including aid to foreign countries.

2. Health and Human Services Budget Reduction Act

All HHS programs funded via the Internal Revenue Service and normal tax revenue (as opposed to the Medicare tax) shall see their budgets reduced by 25%.

3. Legislative Branch Budget Reduction Act

The Legislative Branch shall see a budget reduction of 33%.

4. National Science Foundation Budget Reduction Act

The budget of the National Science Foundation shall be reduced by $ 1 billion.

5. Department of Energy Budget Reduction Act

The budget of the Department of Energy shall be reduced by 20%.

 INSANE CHAINSAW BUDGET BILL

1. The Department of Health and Human Services is hereby abolished.

2. Any surplus resulting from this shall be distributed evenly to all working adults earning less then $100,000 during FY2005, and to all seniors currently on Medicare or Medicaid.

(even if that's 100 million people, that's close to $1,000 per person!).

Foreign Aid Reduction Bill

1. The budget of the International Assistance Programs division of the State Department shall be reduced to $3 billion immediately upon the passage of this bill.

DanielX, do you still want to bring this to the floor?