The Hunting Grounds: Turmoil in America
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Author Topic: The Hunting Grounds: Turmoil in America  (Read 23120 times)
Joe Biden 2024
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« Reply #175 on: September 21, 2020, 08:22:35 AM »

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Illini Moderate
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« Reply #176 on: September 21, 2020, 08:28:34 AM »

Folks, any remaining interest in the TL continuing?

Yes, absolutely
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BigVic
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« Reply #177 on: September 21, 2020, 08:52:45 AM »

Folks, any remaining interest in the TL continuing?

Keep going!
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Elcaspar
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« Reply #178 on: September 21, 2020, 11:29:33 AM »

Folks, any remaining interest in the TL continuing?

For sure!
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #179 on: September 21, 2020, 11:31:44 AM »

Of course
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Fubart Solman
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« Reply #180 on: September 21, 2020, 11:34:57 AM »

Yes, I’d love to see this continue! Glad to see that Feingold is doing well!
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America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS
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« Reply #181 on: September 21, 2020, 07:25:08 PM »

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We Live in Black and White
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« Reply #182 on: September 21, 2020, 09:22:56 PM »

Folks, any remaining interest in the TL continuing?

Coming out of self-imposed semi-exile to say: absolutely I'd love to see more. You're a phenomenal writer, man.
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #183 on: September 22, 2020, 02:28:17 AM »

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Snazzrazz Mazzlejazz
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« Reply #184 on: September 23, 2020, 08:04:02 AM »

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Continential
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« Reply #185 on: September 23, 2020, 10:10:58 AM »


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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #186 on: September 24, 2020, 04:53:50 PM »

Thanks everyone! Purple heart
I will continue this soon, mostly during holidays and weekends. We're approaching the final stages!
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #187 on: September 25, 2020, 07:31:20 AM »

Post-Super Tuesday Polling Update

General Election Match-Ups:
Gore 53% - Giuliani 42
Clinton 50% - Giuliani 43%
Feingold 51% - Giuliani 45%
Gore 52% - Pataki 42%
Clinton 49% - Pataki 44%
Feingold 50% - Pataki 45%
Gore 54% - Bush 39%
Clinton 52% - Bush 40%
Feingold 52% - Bush 42%
Gore 57% - Santorum 38%
Clinton 55% - Santorum 39%
Feingold 55% - Santorum 41%



Republican Presidential Primaries- National
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 34% ↑ (+3)
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 24% ↑ (+4)
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 18% ↓ (-4)
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 12% ↓ (-2)
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 6% ↓ (-1)
Others/Undecided- 6% = (-0)

Republican Primaries Map


American Samoa
Guam
Northern Mariana Islands
US Virgin Islands



Democratic Presidential Primaries- National
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 35% ↑ (+9)
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 29% ↑ (+3)
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 28% ↑ (+5)
Others\Undecided- 8% ↑ (+3)

Democratic Primaries Map


American Samoa
Guam
Northern Mariana Islands
US Virgin Islands
Democrats Abroad
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #188 on: September 25, 2020, 04:31:40 PM »

The 2008 Election
Part V



Sources: Wikipedia Commons

February 6th: Gore and Giuliani considered winners of Super Tuesday, Feingold and Santorum overperform; Napolitano, Locke drop out, making the Democratic race a three-way

February 8th: "Clinton went on an aggressive attack against Gore in the debate. Was she too shrill?"

February 9th: In another set of primaries, Gore wins Louisiana and the Virgin Islands, but Feingold shows he here to stay with victories in Nebraska, Washington; in Republican Primary, Santorum snatches Louisiana, Kansas, strengthening position

February 10th: Feingold wins Maine Caucuses, Gore releases negative ad on the Wisconsin Senator

February 12th: POTOMAC PRIMARIES: Gore nets big wins in Virgina, Maryland and DC, Giuliani wins big in Maryland, narrowly beats Pataki in DC and Santorum in Virginia; meanwhile, Feingold emerges victor among Democrats Abroad

February 16th: Clinton reportedly betting on Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania for comeback

February 18th: President Giuliani promises to appoint Vice President when "Republican voters made clear they want me to represent them"; Republican leaders reported to be anxious about Pelosi as successor

February 19th: Giuliani wins Washington and Wisconsin Primaries; Obama's endorsement narrowly delivers Hawaii for Gore, while Feingold easily carries homestate of Wisconsin

February 24rd: Giuliani wins contests in three territories of American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands and Puerto Rico

February 28th: Tensions rise ahead of crucial March 4th Primaries- Giuliani and Gore hope to deliver knockout punch, Clinton descends on Texas and Ohio, Bush hopes to deliver a statement in Texas and Feingold camp hoping for a win in Ohio, Rhode Island and Vermont- and for a Clinton victory in Texas

March 2nd: "The economy is slowing to dangerous territory, the War in Iraq is a disaster and the Hastert baggage is unbearable. Republicans can't win with Giuliani- so why is he prevailing?"

March 4th: The verdict is split: Feingold takes Rhode Island and Vermont, Clinton narrowly wins Ohio, Gore takes biggest prize of Texas

March 5th: After winning Texas, Laura Bush drops out of the race; Pataki wins only Vermont while Giuliani prevails in Ohio and Rhode Island

March 8th: Giuliani wins Guam, Feingold wins Wyoming

March 9th: Clinton to campaign exclusively in Pennsylvania until April

March 11th: Gore and Santorum win landslides in Mississippi

March 19th: During long break in primaries, candidates reevaluate campaigns and voters forget momentum: Giuliani uses party to pressure Pataki and Santorum to reconsider challenges, Clinton camp realizes fate depends on Pennsylvania

March 28th: Gore and Feingold reportedly reach no agreement in "secret meeting" held in Feingold's Senate office

April 5th: Giuliani wins in Virgin Islands territory

April 10th: President responds to questsions on Vice Presidential appointment: Vice President will be appointed alongside running mate

April 13th: "He's risking our hold on the White House for debatable political gain": Republicans fuming that Giuliani, hoping to make spectacle of VP pick, won't put Pelosi a long distance from the Presidency

April 15th: Giuliani, Santorum zero in on Pennsylvania as former Senator struggles to keep hold of his homestate

April 20th: "Everyone is in Pennsylvania" as state set to decide fates and set pace of renewed Presidential Primary campaign

After "Mega Tuesday", the races for the Democratic and Republican nominations became much more defined. On the GOP side, it was President Giuliani as frontrunner, with his opponents mostly running to send a message rather than to win. The strongest challenger was Santorum, carrying the banner of a powerful and defined voting bloc in the party- evangelical Christians and social conservatives.

On the Democratic side, Janet Napolitano and Gary Locke dropped out, both generally better off in their political careers after running surprisingly strong campaigns. Napolitano, fairly young, was now speculated as a possible candidate for U.S. Senate in Arizona after either McCain (who isn't considered beatable) or Goddard retire, and had a future in Presidential politics. The same was true for Locke, who was also considered as someone virtually guaranteed a cabinet position in a Gore, Clinton or Feingold administration. Neither made endorsements. With both out and with Mike Gravel leaving to run for the Libertarian nomination, it became a true three-way battle between Gore, Clinton and Feingold, with Gore as a clear favourite.

Throughout the following contests, Giuliani continued winning most Republican contests, with Santorum winning states in the deep south and most caucuses, while Gore won states with large black and college-educated populations such as Louisiana, Virginia and Maryland, while Gore won caucuses like Maine and his homestate of Wisconsin by a landslide. Clinton failed to get many victories, and her campaign seemed to enter crisis mode- she lashed out on Gore and Feingold in debates and ads, she tried to trot out her husband to black communities, and finally, her campaign decided that three states were their best chance for a comeback- Texas and Ohio in March, and Pennsylvania in late April. These were states that were generally favourable to her, with a more moderate and less black electorate in Texas' case and a more working class electorate in Ohio and Pennsylvania.

When March 4th came with several major contests, Clinton didn't receive a death blow yet, as she managed to narrowly win Ohio, but many calls started for her to drop out as Gore won Texas, while Rhode Island and Vermont went to Feingold. It was becoming increasingly clear that no one would be able to surmount Gore's delegate lead, and the former Vice President started plans for how to . He hoped to knock Clinton out in Pennsylvania, and reportedly met with Feingold to discuss an agreement for him to drop out in exchange for Gore adopting several policy planks. Feingold, according to the sources, refused to make any "dirty deal", but did say he would be more at ease with Gore if he adopted several left-wing foreign policy and campaign finance reform goals.

On the GOP side, Giuliani's nomination increasingly became a near-inevitability, and the only thing his opponents could hope for was a contested convention. Laura Bush became the first major opponent to exit the race- she did that after winning Texas, a state that was still deeply loyal to her husband, and showing that his legacy had staying power. Pataki, despite only winning Vermont, stubbornly stayed in and continued to lash out at Giuliani. Santorum, meanwhile, kept taking wins and remained a strong thorn in the President's side.

During the primary, and especially during the "calm period" from March 11th, when Gore and Santorum easily won Mississippi, to the crucial April 22nd Pennsylvania Primary, the issue of a Vice President started becoming larger and larger. To the fury of Republican Party officials, Giuliani refused to appoint someone at the time, and it was later revealed that his campaign hoped to make a spectacle of his running mate choice by appointing that person Vice President- also a way to lure more respectable and popular politicians to join a likely losing ticket by inviting them to get a forever-spot in the history books. A recording was even released of Mitch McConnell, Republican Senate leader, lashing out as Giuliani campaign strategists and White House officials by shouting "you're going to make that b*tch Nancy Pelosi our President and give up all our power, just a little stroke of bad luck or some crazy guy with a gun and the b*tch takes all our power". The recording also caused a surge of donations and support to McConnells' prospective Senate opponents, putting an extra target on his back.

Another big question was asked by many- why was Giuliani running away with the nomination? The economy was in an extremely precarious position, the weight of the Hastert scandal was all on his back and the War in Iraq he supported was looking worse by the day. It looked like Giuliani simply could not win, and yet Republicans would go with him. The reason seemed to be the weakness of his opposition- Pataki's and Bush's campaign seemed too dominated by personal grudges, with the former only appealing to a dying breed of moderate Republicans (many of whom supported Giuliani) and Bush's inexperience becoming a huge weight on her appeal. And while Santorum was doing very well, his brand of politics just wasn't enough to win him wide appeal outside of his group of supporters. And thus it was that the 2008 GOP Primary was one of the lowest-turnout affairs in recent decades, and Giuliani seemed to be winning by default.

In the leadup to Pennsylvania, it was clear that everything was at stake. Clinton and Gore were all up in the state, as Feingold devoted half his time campaigning there and the rest in the Senate, with more reports coming of talks with Gore camapaign officials. On the GOP side, Santorum's campaign was suddenly afraid of the real possibility of losing his homestate, possibly a deathblow to his campaign, and both him and President Giuliani campaign there furiously, as did Pataki, to smaller effect.

The end of the primaries was close, and the general election was near, in the shadow of a war, a trial for a former President and a slowing economy.



Republican Kansas Caucuses Results
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 43.8% ✓
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 34.3%
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 12.1%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 6.5%
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 3.2%
Others- 0.1%

Republican Louisiana Primary Results
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 46.9% ✓
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 40.7%
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 5.7%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 4.5%
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 1.8%
Others- 0.4%

Republican District of Columbia Primary Results
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 40.2% ✓
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 37.0%
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 18.4%
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 3.2%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 1.2%
Others- 0.0%

Republican Maryland Primary Results
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 47.9% ✓
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 23.5%
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 13.1%
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 12.6%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 2.8%
Others- 0.1%

Republican Virginia Primary Results
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 29.3% ✓
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 26.6%
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 23.4%
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 13.4%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 7.2%
Others- 0.1%

Republican Washington Primary Results
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 37.3% ✓
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 31.5%
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 14.2%
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 13.0%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 3.7%
Others- 0.3%

Republican Wisconsin Primary Results
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 39.0% ✓
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 33.8%
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 16.8%
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 6.1%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 3.9%
Others- 0.1%

Republican Puerto Rico Caucuses Results
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 57.5% ✓
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 29.3%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 8.9%
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 3.7%
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 0.6%
Others- 0.0%

Republican Ohio Primary Results
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 41.3% ✓
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 28.8%
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 22.1%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 4.1%
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 3.5%
Others- 0.2%

Republican Rhode Island Primary Results
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 42.6% ✓
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 35.0%
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 16.9%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 2.8%
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 2.6%
Others- 0.1%

Republican Texas Primary Results
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 43.1% ✓
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 20.4%
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 17.0%
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 11.6%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 7.5%
Others- 0.4%

Republican Vermont Primary Results
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 43.9% ✓
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 38.6%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 6.4%
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 5.7%
Fmr. First Lady Laura Bush (R-TX)- 4.9%
Others- 0.5%

Republican Mississippi Primary Results
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 54.2% ✓
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 38.5%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 5.9%
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 1.3%
Others- 0.1%



Democratic Louisiana Primary Results
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 56.7% ✓
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 23.8%
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 18.3%
Others- 1.2%

Democratic Nebraska Caucuses Results
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 47.8% ✓
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 32.3%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 19.4%
Others- 0.5%

Democratic Washington Caucuses Results
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 50.8% ✓
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 35.3%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 13.4%
Others- 0.3%

Democratic Maine Caucuses Results
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 63.3% ✓
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 18.4%
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 18.1%
Others- 0.2%

Democrats Abroad Primaries Results
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 41.2% ✓
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 38.5%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 18.9%
Others- 1.4%

Democratic District of Columbia Primary Results
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 67.8% ✓
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 18.6%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 11.8%
Others- 1.8%

Democratic Maryland Primary Results
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 54.9% ✓
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 23.5%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 21.3%
Others- 0.3%

Democratic Virginia Primary Results
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 59.6% ✓
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 24.5%
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 15.7%
Others- 0.2%

Democratic Hawaii Caucuses Results
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 45.5% ✓
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 43.4%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 8.5%
Others- 2.6%

Democratic Wisconsin Primary Results
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 56.9% ✓
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 23.9%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 19.1%
Others- 0.1%

Democratic Ohio Primary Results
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 37.6% ✓
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 35.9%
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 26.2%
Others- 0.3%

Democratic Rhode Island Primary Results
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 44.3% ✓
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 39.0%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 16.6%
Others- 0.1%

Democratic Texas Primary Results
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 43.5% ✓
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 38.7%
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 17.6%
Others- 0.2%

Democratic Vermont Primary Results
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 58.4% ✓
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 22.9%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 18.7%
Others- 0.0%

Democratic Wyoming Caucuses Results
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 57.9% ✓
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 29.7%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 12.1%
Others- 0.3%

Democratic Mississippi Primary Results
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 70.0% ✓
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 15.9%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 13.5%
Others- 0.6%
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #189 on: September 25, 2020, 04:42:45 PM »

Pre-Pennsylvania Polling Update (April 21st)

Gore 55% - Giuliani 41
Clinton 50% - Giuliani 42%
Feingold 53% - Giuliani 43%
Gore 51% - Pataki 41%
Clinton 47% - Pataki 43%
Feingold 49% - Pataki 44%
Gore 58% - Santorum 38%
Clinton 54% - Santorum 39%
Feingold 55% - Santorum 40%



Republican Presidential Primaries- National
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 39% ↑ (+5)
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 29% ↑ (+5)
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 19% ↑ (+1)
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 6% 0 (+-0)
Others/Undecided- 7% ↑ (+1)

Republican Presidential Primaries- Pennsylvania
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 35%
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 35%
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 15%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 8%
Others/Undecided- 5%

Republican Primaries Map


American Samoa
Guam
Northern Mariana Islands
US Virgin Islands



Democratic Presidential Primaries- National
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 41% ↑ (+6)
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 29% ↑ (+1)
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 23% ↓ (-6)
Others\Undecided- 7% ↓ (-1)

Democratic Presidential Primaries- Pennsylvania
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 34%
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 32%
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 28%
Others\Undecided- 6%

Democratic Primaries Map


American Samoa
Guam
US Virgin Islands
Democrats Abroad
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Elcaspar
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« Reply #190 on: September 25, 2020, 04:59:54 PM »

With how it's going i am hoping for a Gore/Feingold ticket for the Democrats.
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Fubart Solman
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« Reply #191 on: September 25, 2020, 06:03:36 PM »

Glad to see Feingold is still in the race!!
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« Reply #192 on: September 26, 2020, 08:53:28 AM »
« Edited: September 26, 2020, 09:15:09 AM by Parrotguy »

April 23rd, 2008

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton drops out of Presidential race; Gore defeats Clinton, Feingold in Pennsylvania



PHILADELPHIA - Senator Hillary Clinton dropped out of the race this morning. This comes after former Vice President Al Gore, now the overwhelming frontrunner for the Democratic nomination, defeated her and Wisconsin Senator Russ Feingold in the state of Pennsylvania, drawn by her campaign as the last line, her last hope. In her speech in front of many supporters, Clinton referred to her being the woman that came closest to becoming President and said that "we may have not broken that highest and tallest glass ceiling, but we surely put a crack in it".

Former Presidential candidate Janet Napolitano was the first to respond, saying that she was "proud" of Clinton for coming "so close to the history we've been craving for", and promised "all the little girls and all the old girls out there that we'll get there, if not now then in a decade or two". Other candidates responded respectfully, with Gore saying he had "tremendous respect for Hillary" and promising to "use her experience and good judgement in the coming campaign and my administration, if she would give it". Former candidate Barack Obama spoke similarly, saying that "Hillary is an inseperable part of our party's and country's story".

With Clinton out of the race, it seems almost certain that Al Gore will be the Democratic Party's 2008 nominee. The following states are mostly favourable to Gore, and most of Clinton's voters are likely to support him now. It is possible that no candidate will reach a majority of delegates, forcing a contested convention, but Senator Feingold is considered unlikely the contest it, and the party will certainly start pushing unpledged delegates in Gore's direction.

With Gore, the party receives what polls show is its strongest candidate for the general election- with popularity stemming from a newfound charisma and the Nobel Prize and Academy Award, deep experience that allows him to be seen as a safe hand in very tumultous times, recorded opposition to the unpopular Iraq War and a moderate reputation. The only thing he seems to be lacking is the excitement factor- something that is likely to come up during the VP vetting- and his record as a 2000 loser could come back to haunt him.

Democratic Pennsylvania Primary Results
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 42.5% ✓
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- 34.1%
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- 23.1%
Others- 0.3%

As Giuliani narrowly prevails in Pennsylvania, Republican Party officials openly call the President "presumptive nominee", but Santorum, Pataki and Paul vow to continue to the convention



PITTSBURGH - The Republican Presidential primary seems to be essentially over as well, with Rudy Giuliani defeating Rick Santorum in his own homestate, his last chance to expand his appeal beyond deep south and caucus states. RNC Chairman Jim Gilmore, in a statement this morning, called the President "our presumptive nominee" and urged the other candidates to "unite behind him and work to protect our basic values from radicals and extremists rather than engage in petty personal fighting". While a contested convention is possible here too, it is now likely that the RNC and state parties will be heavily pushing delegates to side with Giuliani in state and district conventions to be held accross the country in the coming couple of months.

However, Senator Santorum, Governor Pataki and Congressman Paul have all refused to drop out today. Santorum said that "there is clearly a large segement of the party who aren't satisfied with this President's morals and his weak positions on protecting our families and our unborn children", while Pataki declared that he "will continue to serve as the voice of sensible Republicans who can't accept a nominee who stayed silent while a pedophile sat in the Oval Office".

But now, much of the rumour mill concerning the Presidential race turned to potential third party campaigns by the Republican challengers. With the deadline approaching on the horizon for several states, potential candidates would have to move fast. The strongest rumour was coming from the direction of Rep. Paul- the Libertarian Party's Presidential Primary was already fairly crowded with big names, with former Republican candidate Gary Johnson, former Democratic candidate Mike Gravel and former Congressman Bob Barr already running, but Paul was reportedly exploring jumping into the race ahead of the convention in late May, which could completely shake the ground. With the large following he built, the Libertarian Party's reach could expand beyond anything it had ever before.

But Paul wasn't the only one- staffers for Senator Santorum reportedly met with Constitution Party members, and while a run remained unlikely, it was possible that a high-profile figure in the Republican Party's religious right segement could jump in and further complicate things for the President. And lastly, several mainstream Republican figures, linked to both the Pataki and Bush camps, were reportedly contemplating fielding an independent candidate, partially meant to juice Republican turnout and help in downballot races. It was clear that the President had his work cut for him if he is to unite his party.

Republican Pennsylvania Primary Results
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 36.8% ✓
Fmr. Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA)- 34.6%
Fmr. Governor George Pataki (R-NY)- 17.1%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)- 11.3%
Others- 0.2%

April 26th, 2008

BREAKING: Ending the race for the Democratic nomination, Russ Feingold drops out and endorses Al Gore alongside Clinton, Napolitano and Locke in a huge rally held in Cleveland, Ohio



CLEVELAND - It's official- Al Gore is the presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee in 2008. Deciding that he had no chance at the nomination and there was no good reason to continue his challenge, Senator Feingold suspended his Presidential campaign. In a huge rally held in Cleveland, Ohio, a state where John Kerry famously lost the election in 2004, Gore received the endorsements of all his former major rivals.

In his speech, Feingold highlighted areas of agreement with Gore such as strong environmental action, campaign finance reform, a public option for healthcare and ending the Iraq War, and urged his supporters to coalese behind the nominee. Hillary Clinton also offered her endorsement in the rally, calling Gore a "responsible steward for our country" and "a great partner for governing". Janet Napolitano and Gary Locke got off the sidelines as well, endorsing Gore, and the rally was also attended by Barack Obama, whose speech drew especially loud applause. All of these former candidates are rumoured to be frontrunners for the position of Gore's running mate.

2008 U.S. Presidential Election- National Polling
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 51%
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 36%
Others- 5%
Undecided- 8%
GORE +15%
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« Reply #193 on: September 26, 2020, 08:59:52 AM »

 RIP Russ, go Gore.
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« Reply #194 on: September 26, 2020, 12:54:30 PM »

Goddamnit.

Oh well, Gore '08.
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« Reply #195 on: October 02, 2020, 01:42:41 PM »

The 2008 Election
Part VI
Third Parties



The time to the end of the primaries passed quickly- Al Gore swept all the remaining Democratic contests with little opposition, while President Giuliani, showing his inevitability, defeated Santorum, Pataki and Paul in Indiana, North Carolina, Nebraska, Oregon, Kentucky and New Mexico, with Santorum winning only Idaho and South Dakota. Giuliani was likely, when all was said and done, to clinch a majority of delegates in the first ballot. The focus was no longer on the actual voting but on two crucial issues that would shape the rest of the election- third parties and running mates.

In early May, Rep. Ron Paul left the Republican Party and announced that he was running for the Libertarian nomination, becoming the first Libertarian Congressman in history in the process. It was not an easy race for him- while some of the candidates, including Michael Jingozian, Christine Smith and Wayn Allyn Root dropped out and endorsed Paul, and much of the party welcomed him as the nominee, former Congressman Bob Barr, former Governor Gary Johnson, activist Mary Ruwart and former Senator Mike Gravel continued their campaigns. In the end, the voting went on for five ballots. After gaining the endorsements of Ruwat and Barr, Paul prevailed and defeated the former Governor of New Mexico and the former Democratic Presidential candidate.

Libertarian National Convention, 2008 (1st Ballot)
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (L-TX)- 157 votes (24.9%)
Fmr. Governor Gary Johnson (L-NM)- 115 votes (18.2%)
Dr. Mary Ruwart (L-TX)- 109 votes (17.3%)
Fmr. Senator Mike Gravel (L-AK)- 98 (15.5%)
Fmr. U.S. Rep. Bob Barr (L-GA)- 83 votes (13.1%)
Activist Steve Kubby (L-CA)- 34 votes (5.4%)
Dr. George Phillies (L-MA)- 29 votes (4.6%)
Others- 6 votes (1.0%)
Dr. George Phillies eliminated, endorses Ron Paul

Libertarian National Convention, 2008 (2nd Ballot)
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (L-TX)- 183 votes (29.0%)
Fmr. Governor Gary Johnson (L-NM)- 130 votes (20.6%)
Dr. Mary Ruwart (L-TX)- 111 votes (17.6%)
Fmr. Senator Mike Gravel (L-AK)- 104 (16.5%)
Fmr. U.S. Rep. Bob Barr (L-GA)- 69 votes (10.9%)
Activist Steve Kubby (L-CA)- 31 votes (4.9%)
Others- 3 votes (0.5%)
Mr. Steve Kubby eliminated, endorses Mike Gravel (joint ticket announced)

Libertarian National Convention, 2008 (3rd Ballot)
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (L-TX)- 194 votes (30.7%)
Fmr. Governor Gary Johnson (L-NM)- 138 votes (21.9%)
Fmr. Senator Mike Gravel (L-AK)- 119 (18.8%)
Dr. Mary Ruwart (L-TX)- 112 votes (17.7%)
Fmr. U.S. Rep. Bob Barr (L-GA)- 67 votes (10.7%)
Others- 1 vote (0.2%)
Congressman Bob Barr eliminated, endorses Ron Paul

Libertarian National Convention, 2008 (4th Ballot)
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (L-TX)- 239 votes (37.9%)
Fmr. Governor Gary Johnson (L-NM)- 147 votes (23.3%)
Fmr. Senator Mike Gravel (L-AK)- 122 (19.3%)
Dr. Mary Ruwart (L-TX)- 120 votes (19.0%)
Others- 3 vote (0.5%)
Dr. Mary Ruwart eliminated, endorses Ron Paul

Libertarian National Convention, 2008 (4th Ballot)
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (L-TX)- 347 votes (55.0%) ✓
Fmr. Governor Gary Johnson (L-NM)- 155 votes (24.6%)
Fmr. Senator Mike Gravel (L-AK)- 124 (19.6%)
Others- 5 vote (0.8%)

Following Paul's nomination, a Vice Presidential running mate had to be chosen for the insurgent third party candidate. Paul and Libertarian Party officials deliberated hard and for many hours, delaying the VP vote- some advocated for Ruwart or Root, Libertarian hardliners who could help Paul get the votes of those who didn't trust a Republican turncloak, but they were deemed by Paul too minor a voting bloc to matter- he wanted to become the most successful Libertarian candidate ever, maybe even exceeding 5%. Some argued that Gravel could help get some left-wing Democratic votes, but they were quickly dismissed. Johnson became a leading contender- a moderate with rich governing experience- but in the end Paul's sour relationship with Johnson during the 2008 Republican Primary prevailed, and the choice was turned down. In the end, the Paul campaign came up with a surprising candidate- Judge Jim Gray, a respected California Libertarian who was particularly critical of drug laws. The Paul\Gray ticket received disproportionate media attention for a third-party ticket.

But the Libertarians weren't the only minor party to receive a surprising boost. The Constitution Party, lobbying behind the scenes for Senator Santorum to run for its ticket, did not receive its fantasy as Santorum decided to not make the jump, but the social conservative branch of the Republican Party did not unite behind Giuliani. Santorum refused to endorse the nominee, and several figures began mulling a third party run in his place. In the end, the one who swept the Constitution Party's convention was former Alabama Supreme Court Justice Roy Moore, known for his fierce opposition to LGBTQs and non-Christians and his actions to insert religious symbols, such as a ten commandments statue, into government buildings. He was an extremist, but Moore knew how to do one thing well- noise. A lot of noise. He chose former U.S. Rep. Virgil Goode, defeated in 2006 by Rep. Tom Perriello, for his running mate, and the two managed to make it even into the national media with controversial but strongly socially conservative statements. Moore's candidacy presented another, very tough challenge for President Giuliani in uniting his party.

Constitution National Convention, 2008 (1st Ballot)
Fmr. Chief Justice Roy Moore (C-AL)- 363 votes (70.3%) ✓
Pastor Chuck Baldwin (C-MT)- 78 votes (15.1%)
Fmr. Ambassador Alan Keyes (C-IL)- 69 votes (13.4%)
Others- 6 vote (1.2%)

The choice of a running mate, and Vice President, seemed doubly important for the President. As the conventions got closer, details started coming out of the deliberations both campaigns are making ahead of the choice.

2008 U.S. Presidential Election- National Polling (2-way)
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 49% ↓ (-2)
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 39% ↑ (+3)
Others/Undecided- 12% ↓ (-1)
GORE +10%

2008 U.S. Presidential Election- National Polling (6-way)
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 47%
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 35%
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (L-TX)\Judge Jim Gray (L-CA)- 6%
Fmr. Chief Justice Roy Moore (C-AL)\Fmr. U.S. Rep. Virgil Goode (L-VA)- 3%
Activist Ralph Nader (I-CT)\Fmr. Supervisor Matt Gonzalez (I-CA)- 1%
Fmr. U.S. Rep. Cynthia McKinney (G-GA)\Activist Rosa Clemente (G-NC)- 0%
Undecided- 8%
GORE +12%
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« Reply #196 on: October 05, 2020, 08:41:52 AM »
« Edited: October 06, 2020, 06:07:30 AM by Parrotguy »

The 2008 Election
Part VII
Running Mates (June-July)



Sources: Wikipedia Commons

As May turned to June, the Primaries for both parties were pretty much concluded- Gore and Giuliani were presumptive nominees, with Santorum and Pataki dropping out in recognition of that, but not endorsing the President just yet.

The conventions were late in 2008- late August for the Democrats, the beginning of September for Republicans. But even so, both candidates immediately began vetting VP candidates, with the President especially feeling pressure from Republican leaders to nominate someone as soon as possible in order to avoid a President Pelosi if the unthinkable happened.

And the President's team also viewed the choice as one of the last chances to turn the trajectory of the race towards him, as the economic slowdown turned into a full panic. In what was called the bursting of the housing bubble and the mortgage crisis, the steep fall in housing prices caused mortgage-held securities in banks to lose value, and many banks began failing. Consumer confidence and the stock market also suffered, spending fell, and many economists started calling it a recession. With great urging from the White House, Democrats in Congress agreed to pass the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008. But many economists warned that it wasn't enough, and that the economy will just grow worse as November grew closer. Another poisoned issue for the President, the Iraq War, showed popularity numbers that just continued to decline. A 2007 troop surge advocated by Senator John McCain was initially successfull, sharply reducing violence accross Iraq, but President Giuliani refused to withdraw the troops, hoping to still turn the war around, and the violence slowly rose again as the economic downturn emboldened insurgent groups.

Thus, Giuliani's team faced many hurdles in the VP deliberations- the first among them was that many prominent Republican politicians were reluctant to join a ticket they viewed as an almost certain loser, and by a great margin at that, or tie themselves to someone who was the Vice Presidential choice of Dennis Hastert. These included Mitt Romney, John McCain, Charlie Crist, Tom Ridge and House Minority Leader Roy Blunt. Another hurdle was that many Republican politicians that Giuliani was willing to consider lost reelection in the 2006 Democratic wave, making them damaged goods- these included former Senators Jon Kyl (R-AZ) and Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-TX) and former Governors Tim Pawlenty (R-MN) and Rick Perry (R-TX). The third hurdle was that Giuliani was adamant about confirming his running mate as Vice President, which would need to pass both Democratic-controlled Houses of Congress. That meant the choice had to be someone Democrats could vote for.

The Giuliani team was reportedly divided between the importance of several considerations. One, they needed to unite the party and that meant someone popular in the religious right's circles, if they could find someone who'd agree to that. Two, they needed someone Americans could trust in turbulent times, and with no connection to the Hastert administration. Giuliani was considered trusted enough, due to his popular tenure as Mayor, but his stint as Vice President damaged him. And three, Giuliani was losing the election- he needed to introduce a jolt, a shock that could change the trajectory of the race. He needed a surprise pick that would focus media attention on him and re-energize the base.

Several names emerged as the main contenders for the position:
U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI)- a rising star in the party who had been in congress since 1999 and could appeal to party unity and be a fresh face.
Fmr. Governor Mike Huckabee (R-AR)- a clear appeal to the religious right, if he agreed to join the ticket, while remaining fairly experienced and charismatic.
Fmr. HP CEO Carly Fiorina (R-CA)- a wildcard choice of a business leader, and possibly appealing to Clinton supporters who wanted a woman on the ticket, but also a staunch conservative.
Former Senator Fred Thompson (R-TN)- a respected conservative figure and former actor, he could bring an appeal to the ticket few could, but it's not clear he'd agree to take the appointment.
Former Senator Bill Frist (R-TN)- former Republican Senate leader, and considered "much more respected" than McConnell, the current leader, Frist is also a firm social conservative who could bring the ticket credibility.
Governor Mark Sanford (R-SC)- seen as a safe, do-no-harm choice of an experienced leader who appeal to the mainstream of the party.
Governor Haley Barbour (R-MS)- a similar choice, and a party insider who could help Giuliani unite it ahead of the convention.
Governor Matt Blunt (R-MO)- the brother of Minority Leader Blunt, seen as an unlikely choice due to that.
Governor Mitch Daniels (R-IN)- a competent and popular across the aisle Governor, he could make Giuliani appear more trusted and stable as a leader- if he agreed to join the ticket.
Fmr. U.S. Rep. J.C. Watts (R-OK)- an unlikely choice of a black conservative, could be a pitch for black voters and take up a lot of media due to the surprising announcement.

Through the months until the convention, the list was whittled down. Huckabee decided to pass- instead, he was running for Senate against incumbent Democrat Mark Pryor, a very tough race due to Pryor's popularity which Huckabee was convinced to jump into by Senator McConnell. Governor Daniels and Senators Thompson and Frist also signaled disinterest, while Governor Blunt and Rep. Ryan fell off from contention. The shortlist, in the end, consisted of four names: Ms. Fiorina, Governor Barbour, Governor Sanford and Rep. Watts.

In the end, Giuliani's final choice was Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour- seen as relatively appealing to social conservatives due to his status as a conservative deep-south Governor, while also being a popular Governor who could be trusted to lead, and finally, he was seen as someone a Democratic congress would find hard to deny.

Giuliani presented Barbour to the public in July 4th, in a big independence day rally, over two months before the Republican National Convention. Democrats were facing a conflict- many in the progressive and liberal base wanted blood, and pressued congress to refuse to appointment, while moderates and blue dogs were urging to confirm Barbour. U.S. Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA) said that "if President Giuliani, whose legitimacy as the pedophile's appointtee is very questionable, wanted us to confirm his Vice President, he shouldn't have chosen a right-winger. Midterms have consequences." At the same time, U.S. Rep. Gary Trauner (D-WY) stated that "a President has a right to appoint a Vice President, and it is our obligation to confirm him if he's fit to be President on his own". U.S. Rep. Gene Taylor (D-MS) declared that Barbour is "an excellent choice". Most importantly, polls showed that a decisive majority of Americans supported Barbour for confirmation. Despite that, Pelosi, Reid and Gore did not commit to a quick confirmation process- Reid said that he had "many issues with a Vice President Barbour" and that he does not think "we should be a blank check after Americans spoke so clearly in 2006", while Gore dodged the question and said that it's "up to congress". The Giuliani campaign was reportedly satisfied with how the process was turning out.


President Giuliani's Vice Presidential choice and appointment, Governor Haley Barbour (R-MS)

In Gore's campaign, it seemed like the opposite was happening in regards to the VP vetting process. Instead of a lack of candidates, they had an influx of possible Democratic talent to choose from, all eager to most-likely become the next Vice President for four years. The long list included former rivals from the 2008 Democratic primary who achieved rising star status, and other politicians who would get less of the spotlight but were considered popular and competent.

Senator Barack Obama (D-IL)- the most obvious choice, considered by pundits as the frontrunner throughout the process. Obama's early endorsement of the former Vice President, despite a strong base and good polling numbers in the Presidential campaign, was possibly the biggest reason for Gore's victory and earned him a lot of favours in the Gore inner circles. The only problems are that the charismatic, popular politician would take a lot of the spotlight from Gore, and his lack of experience could worry voters who crave stability.
Senator Hillary Clinton (D-NY)- pushed by many party insiders as a choice similar to the Reagan\Bush ticket of 1980, Clinton would certainly be an exeprienced nominee who'd bring with her many voters, but her uneasy relationship with Gore makes her a long-shot choice.
Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI)- extremely popular in the progressive base, Feingold would certainly bring grassroots energy to the ticket, and help unite the party. However, he could alienate moderates, and some few voices call for acknowledging the growing diversity of the Democratic Party's electorate by picking someone who isn't a white man.
Governor Janet Napolitano (D-AZ)- a very popular red state Governor who could appeal to women without having to pick Clinton. She's also seen as appealing to hispanic voters, and has considerable governing experience, making her a very strong choice.
Fmr. Governor Gary Locke (D-WA)- yet another successful prodigy of the Presidential campaign, Locke could bring proven campaigning abilities, a reputation for policy focus and experience to the ticket.
Governor Kathleen Sebelius (D-KS)- another popular red-state female Governor, Sebelius could appeal to women and moderate voters while keeping the spotlight on Gore.
Governor Bill Richardson (D-NM)- Richardson is experienced, popular and could appeal to an increasingly important demographic- hispanic voters- as well as securing a swing state, New Mexico.
Senator Evan Bayh (D-IN)- seen as similar to the Clinton\Gore ticket, Bayh is considered charming and has a reputation for bipartisanship, but his moderate politics might not fit the mood of the party.
Senator Joe Biden (D-DE)- similarly to Bayh, he would play to Gore's strengths and his wide experience could give the ticket credence as a "return to normalcy" ticket.
Fmr. Governor Mark Warner (D-VA)- even more than Bayh and Biden, Warner would serve as a fellow southern Democrat, and his charm and moderate politics could draw swing voters.
U.S. Rep. Loretta Sanchez (D-CA)- the dark horse, wild-card choice, Sanchez would be historic as both a woman and latina, and  at the same time is considered moderate and has a lot of experience in congress.

Unlike Giuliani, Gore was reportedly planning to announce the choice ahead of the convention, which meant late August. But still, deliberations continued, and soon it was rumoured that the shortlist was reduced to seven names- Obama, Feingold, Napolitano, Locke, Sebelius, Biden and Sanchez.

President Rudy Giuliani job approval (August 1st)
Disapprove- 53% ↓ (-3)
Approve- 41% ↑ (+4)
Unsure- 6% ↓ (-1)

Do you believe that President Giuliani has a right to appoint a Vice President right now?
Yes- 72%
No- 18%
Unsure- 10%

Do you believe Congress should confirm Haley Barbour as Vice Presidnet?
Yes- 56%
No- 32%
Unsure- 12%

2008 U.S. Presidential Election- National Polling (2-way)
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 47% ↓ (-2)
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 41% ↑ (+2)
Others/Undecided- 12% = (+-0)
GORE +6%

2008 U.S. Presidential Election- National Polling (6-way)
Fmr. Vice President Al Gore (D-TN)- 46% ↓ (-1)
President Rudy Giuliani (R-NY)- 40% ↑ (+5)
U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (L-TX)\Judge Jim Gray (L-CA)- 4% ↓ (-2)
Fmr. Chief Justice Roy Moore (C-AL)\Fmr. U.S. Rep. Virgil Goode (L-VA)- 2% ↓ (-1)
Activist Ralph Nader (I-CT)\Fmr. Supervisor Matt Gonzalez (I-CA)- 1% = (+-0)
Fmr. U.S. Rep. Cynthia McKinney (G-GA)\Activist Rosa Clemente (G-NC)- 0% = (+-0)
Undecided- 7% ↓ (-1)
GORE +6%
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« Reply #197 on: October 05, 2020, 08:48:12 AM »

Who do you think Gore should choose as Vice President (you're welcome to make a ranking list)? Who should Giuliani have chosen?
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« Reply #198 on: October 05, 2020, 10:10:00 AM »

Reps: Matt Blunt is Roy's kid, not his brother.
Dems: Give me Feingoof or give me death.
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« Reply #199 on: October 05, 2020, 10:14:26 AM »

Still Gore/Feingold all the way for me, but Obama, strategically, would be a winning choice for obvious reasons. As for Giuliani, I feel like Frist was the best option of the lot, especially compared to a bona fide hack like Barbour.
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