Question regarding a defeated president refusing to leave office
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 04:00:44 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Constitution and Law (Moderator: World politics is up Schmitt creek)
  Question regarding a defeated president refusing to leave office
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Question regarding a defeated president refusing to leave office  (Read 561 times)
RedPrometheus
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 470


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: April 02, 2019, 03:12:13 PM »

Without claiming this can happen any time soon but I'm curious : what would happen specifically if the president refuses to relinquish the office after an election? Perhaps the election was contentious but the EC elects his or her successor and the courts uphold this - who would enforce the law and how specifically?
Logged
President Johnson
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,590
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -3.23, S: -4.70


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2019, 03:39:18 PM »

Well, the presidential term expires on January 20 at 12 a.m. EST. At this time, the old president loses his authority over the federal government and is nothing more than a private citizen without any formal power. The new president, as commander-in-chief and head of the executive branch, could simply order the Secret Service to remove his predecessor from the grounds of the White House if he refuses to do so. Any orders or formal acts by the old president would have zero effect and authorities wouldn't abide by them. His signature on an issued order would be be worth not more than mine or yours.

If the former president committs any crime with his actions, he could of course be indicted.

Between the election and inauguration (early November to January 20), the old president is still in charge with all the powers, but I don't see that he can do anything to stay in office beyond January 20. Unlike in parliamentary systems, the term of the US president is fixed. By comparison, the German chancellor could stay in as acting head of government for an unlimited amount of time if no successor is elected. Just like Angela Merkel was acting chancellor from October 2017, when her term expired, to March 2018, when the Bundestag reelected her.
Logged
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 44,353


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2019, 04:54:35 PM »

The New President could just order the Secret Service to escort the defeated President out of the WH.
Logged
RedPrometheus
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 470


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2019, 05:02:30 PM »

But isn't the Secret Service part of the Department of Homeland Security? Wouldn't the (acting) Secretary be the person ordering at that point?
Logged
brucejoel99
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,451
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -3.48, S: -3.30

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2019, 09:33:36 PM »

If a defeated president decided that the election was illegitimate, & he was gonna resist actually leaving office, we honestly don't really know what he'd do: for all we know, he could try to have his (victorious) opponent arrested & stopped from appearing to take over the office, or he could just say on January 20th, "I'm not leaving."

At some point, the question would become: whose orders do law enforcement obey? Because it would ultimately become a matter of the use of force in one direction or another.

However, intense congressional & political pressure would also likely force the defeated president out of office quite quickly. Indeed, the first line of defense would be Congress, & the defeated president's party pressuring him out, telling the president that he must resign or leave. If he wants to stay in the White House, however, he would stay in the White House. But, hypothetically, you don't even need the White House. It's symbolic. It's not necessarily *the* seat of power.

Regardless, though, it would certainly still be a constitutional crisis to the first magnitude.
Logged
Del Tachi
Republican95
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 17,709
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.52, S: 1.46

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2019, 12:28:42 PM »

It's really impossible to game this out without knowing the situation on the ground.  A president who "lost" reelection might have considerable support if the results were seen as illegitimate, or he had the backing of high-ranking military brass and/or Congress.

Logged
President Johnson
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,590
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -3.23, S: -4.70


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2019, 03:40:23 PM »

But isn't the Secret Service part of the Department of Homeland Security? Wouldn't the (acting) Secretary be the person ordering at that point?

The president, as the head of the executive branch, can overrule any cabinet secretary and/or ultimately dismiss him or her from office and install someone who abides by presidential orders.
Logged
Slander and/or Libel
Figs
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,338


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.83

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2019, 07:22:40 AM »

It's really impossible to game this out without knowing the situation on the ground.  A president who "lost" reelection might have considerable support if the results were seen as illegitimate, or he had the backing of high-ranking military brass and/or Congress.


Yeah, this is what I was about to say. All of these narrowly legalistic readings are of course correct, but if chaff has been thrown into the air about the legitimacy of the election, it feels considerably less clear that the people in the relevant agencies would all agree on whose orders were properly given.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.041 seconds with 13 queries.