France General Discussion IV: Yellow Fever

[parochial boy]

In the ongoing saga of privatising Paris Airport - as the bill launched by both right and left against Macron's plan has gone through, a petition has been launched to potentially hold the first ever référendum d’initiative partagée to block the privatisation.

All it needs to do for the referendum to be held is collect the signatures of 10% of registered voters, or 4.7 million in all. About 350'000 have been collected since the launch, and the limit must be reached by the 12th March 2020. lol, I mean, good luck.

[Hash]

In the ongoing saga of privatising Paris Airport - as the bill launched by both right and left against Macron's plan has gone through, a petition has been launched to potentially hold the first ever référendum d’initiative partagée to block the privatisation.

All it needs to do for the referendum to be held is collect the signatures of 10% of registered voters, or 4.7 million in all. About 350'000 have been collected since the launch, and the limit must be reached by the 12th March 2020. lol, I mean, good luck.

Even if it does get 4.7 million signatures, there wouldn't necessarily be a referendum: all it would do is put the bill on the order paper of both houses for them to adopt or reject it. Only if the bill has not been examined at least once by each house within six months would there be a referendum. It is basically an unnecessarily complicated and pointless petition. On the plus side, it is very easy and straightforward to sign (it can be done online, and doesn't require uploading any copy of an ID card or passport).

The whole 'shared initiative referendum' is a funny scam cooked up by politicians (initially Sarkozy in his 2008 constitutional reform) to give people the illusion that they can have their say on legislation. It's pretty funny.

[Lechasseur]

https://www.lefigaro.fr/christian-jacob-elu-a-la-tete-des-republicains-20191013?fbclid=IwAR2g0hwwCoRm2KpCzW6q-5_wnquX4ib3PalspNf7KBzBbCCh2Q3OC4gyWDY

Christian Jacob has been elected the new president of LR

[Lechasseur]

https://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/francois-hollande-plaide-pour-un-mandat-presidentiel-de-6-ans-sans-premier-ministre-20191022?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR03ABBbWyEqV8j4p56pGMyApcodQQxjRShpIwvw3eKE9i8YaPSUo_ofRn8#Echobox=1571730367

François Hollande wants the length of a presidential term lengthened to 6 years. He also wants the office of Prime Minister abolished.

[Lechasseur]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ouest-france.fr/politique/francois-fillon/le-proces-de-francois-et-penelope-fillon-aura-lieu-du-24-fevrier-au-11-mars-2020-6516896/amp

Old news but forgot to post it on here until now. François Fillon's trial will be in February/March 2020.

[Lechasseur]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.20minutes.fr/amp/a/2616783

Nicolas Sarkozy will also be going on trial for a separate case (Bygmalion Affair). The date hasn't been fixed yet but it will probably be next year as well.

[Lechasseur]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/justice/affaire-karachi-la-justice-ordonne-un-proces-pour-balladur-et-leotard_2100658.amp.html

And then Edouard Balladur and François Leotard have also been ordered to go on trial due to campaign finance stuff linked to Balladur's 1995 presidential campaign.

[Antonio the Sixth]

lmao, three successive generations of corruption in the French right on display at once

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

So, we'll once again get to see Balladur's preserved corpse on display.

[Tintrlvr]

So, we'll once again get to see Balladur's preserved corpse on display.

The most shocking part of this news story is that Edouard Balladur is still alive.

[Tirnam]

We had 2 polls for the next presidential election

Elabe:


Ifop:

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Will Melenchon and Le Pen definitely run again?

[Lord Halifax]

Will Melenchon and Le Pen definitely run again?

Like Beto they were born to run.

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

Wow, I have not paid enough attention to realize just how far PS has faltered.

[urutzizu]

Macron does 180 on Immigration:
France will now impose strict quotas on non-eu migration, around 33000 per year according to the labour minister, despite being against Quotas in his 2017 Campaign. Health insurance will be restricted for illegal immigrants and the Asylum Law will also be tightened further, after being so already last year. France has seen a large increase in the number of Asylum seekers (as opposed to the other major EU countries that have seen large drops). Macron also said in the right-wing Magazine "Valeurs Actuelles" that there was a threat of "Secession" in immigrant-high Banlieues.

Sarkozy et al. talked tough on Migration in the Campaign, but did little legally, but it will be the 'liberal globalist rothschild soros puppet' that cracking down hard. Ironic. I wonder whether that new poll had anything to do with this...

2022 is not going to be a nice election for Left-wing voters, I fear.

(en) https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-toughens-stance-immigration-1.5349767
(de) https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/fachkraeftemangel-frankreich-fuehrt-quotenregelung-fuer-migranten-ein-16470130.html

[Lechasseur]

Macron does 180 on Immigration:
France will now impose strict quotas on non-eu migration, around 33000 per year according to the labour minister, despite being against Quotas in his 2017 Campaign. Health insurance will be restricted for illegal immigrants and the Asylum Law will also be tightened further, after being so already last year. France has seen a large increase in the number of Asylum seekers (as opposed to the other major EU countries that have seen large drops). Macron also said in the right-wing Magazine "Valeurs Actuelles" that there was a threat of "Secession" in immigrant-high Banlieues.

Sarkozy et al. talked tough on Migration in the Campaign, but did little legally, but it will be the 'liberal globalist rothschild soros puppet' that cracking down hard. Ironic. I wonder whether that new poll had anything to do with this...

2022 is not going to be a nice election for Left-wing voters, I fear.

(en) https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-toughens-stance-immigration-1.5349767
(de) https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/fachkraeftemangel-frankreich-fuehrt-quotenregelung-fuer-migranten-ein-16470130.html

In practice it changes nothing. Only a fraction of visas (titres de séjour) are for economic reasons. 33 000 is already about the amount of economic visas France gives out every year. And only ''economic'' migration will be capped.

Family/personal life visas and student visas, who make up the vast majority of visas, won't be capped as far as I know.

[Omega21]

Macron does 180 on Immigration:
France will now impose strict quotas on non-eu migration, around 33000 per year according to the labour minister, despite being against Quotas in his 2017 Campaign. Health insurance will be restricted for illegal immigrants and the Asylum Law will also be tightened further, after being so already last year. France has seen a large increase in the number of Asylum seekers (as opposed to the other major EU countries that have seen large drops). Macron also said in the right-wing Magazine "Valeurs Actuelles" that there was a threat of "Secession" in immigrant-high Banlieues.

Sarkozy et al. talked tough on Migration in the Campaign, but did little legally, but it will be the 'liberal globalist rothschild soros puppet' that cracking down hard. Ironic. I wonder whether that new poll had anything to do with this...

2022 is not going to be a nice election for Left-wing voters, I fear.

(en) https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-toughens-stance-immigration-1.5349767
(de) https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/fachkraeftemangel-frankreich-fuehrt-quotenregelung-fuer-migranten-ein-16470130.html

In practice it changes nothing. Only a fraction of visas (titres de séjour) are for economic reasons. 33 000 is already about the amount of economic visas France gives out every year. And only ''economic'' migration will be capped.

Family/personal life visas and student visas, who make up the vast majority of visas, won't be capped as far as I know.

The first one is not even cappable, as it would be illegal not to allow spouse and children to join the person if he has a legal residence and is able to provide.

Btw. Where/how did most of the African Immigrants come to France? I know people from Africa make up a relatively large % of the population in some areas, so was it some sort of program for ex-colonies?

[Lechasseur]

Macron does 180 on Immigration:
France will now impose strict quotas on non-eu migration, around 33000 per year according to the labour minister, despite being against Quotas in his 2017 Campaign. Health insurance will be restricted for illegal immigrants and the Asylum Law will also be tightened further, after being so already last year. France has seen a large increase in the number of Asylum seekers (as opposed to the other major EU countries that have seen large drops). Macron also said in the right-wing Magazine "Valeurs Actuelles" that there was a threat of "Secession" in immigrant-high Banlieues.

Sarkozy et al. talked tough on Migration in the Campaign, but did little legally, but it will be the 'liberal globalist rothschild soros puppet' that cracking down hard. Ironic. I wonder whether that new poll had anything to do with this...

2022 is not going to be a nice election for Left-wing voters, I fear.

(en) https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-toughens-stance-immigration-1.5349767
(de) https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/fachkraeftemangel-frankreich-fuehrt-quotenregelung-fuer-migranten-ein-16470130.html

In practice it changes nothing. Only a fraction of visas (titres de séjour) are for economic reasons. 33 000 is already about the amount of economic visas France gives out every year. And only ''economic'' migration will be capped.

Family/personal life visas and student visas, who make up the vast majority of visas, won't be capped as far as I know.

The first one is not even cappable, as it would be illegal not to allow spouse and children to join the person if he has a legal residence and is able to provide.

Btw. Where/how did most of the African Immigrants come to France? I know people from Africa make up a relatively large % of the population in some areas, so was it some sort of program for ex-colonies?

Oh I don't support a cap on it either. And as you said it would probably be illegal anyway.

For the part on African immigrants there are many reasons for Algeria (it was PART of France until 1962 and not legally a colony like the others), but I'm not sure what the exact reasons for the others were.

I know you had programs in the 1960s but those ended under Pompidou I believe. I'm not sure how those who came later came.

[Kingpoleon]

Lechasseur, could you please use the URL /URL links so these pages aren’t distorted in width?

[Omega21]

Macron does 180 on Immigration:
France will now impose strict quotas on non-eu migration, around 33000 per year according to the labour minister, despite being against Quotas in his 2017 Campaign. Health insurance will be restricted for illegal immigrants and the Asylum Law will also be tightened further, after being so already last year. France has seen a large increase in the number of Asylum seekers (as opposed to the other major EU countries that have seen large drops). Macron also said in the right-wing Magazine "Valeurs Actuelles" that there was a threat of "Secession" in immigrant-high Banlieues.

Sarkozy et al. talked tough on Migration in the Campaign, but did little legally, but it will be the 'liberal globalist rothschild soros puppet' that cracking down hard. Ironic. I wonder whether that new poll had anything to do with this...

2022 is not going to be a nice election for Left-wing voters, I fear.

(en) https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-toughens-stance-immigration-1.5349767
(de) https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/fachkraeftemangel-frankreich-fuehrt-quotenregelung-fuer-migranten-ein-16470130.html

In practice it changes nothing. Only a fraction of visas (titres de séjour) are for economic reasons. 33 000 is already about the amount of economic visas France gives out every year. And only ''economic'' migration will be capped.

Family/personal life visas and student visas, who make up the vast majority of visas, won't be capped as far as I know.

The first one is not even cappable, as it would be illegal not to allow spouse and children to join the person if he has a legal residence and is able to provide.

Btw. Where/how did most of the African Immigrants come to France? I know people from Africa make up a relatively large % of the population in some areas, so was it some sort of program for ex-colonies?

Oh I don't support a cap on it either. And as you said it would probably be illegal anyway.

For the part on African immigrants there are many reasons for Algeria (it was PART of France until 1962 and not legally a colony like the others), but I'm not sure what the exact reasons for the others were.

I know you had programs in the 1960s but those ended under Pompidou I believe. I'm not sure how those who came later came.

Oh, I actually didn't know that. Guess it was a pretty progressive position compared to other colonial powers.

Thanks!

[parochial boy]

Progressive? Arguable, it's hard not to look at Colonial Algeria and think about the quasi-apartheid situation it had between pieds-noirs and "natives".

With regards to the Algerian migrants in the 50s/60s - lots of them wound up housed in huge shanty towns, eg the one in Nanterre, before being shunted out to badly designed, bady connected, cheaply built banlieues that the original inhabitants were already fleeing in droves. Really quite obviously sowing the seeds of the issues that exist today.

Immgration from the West Africa and Sahel was a much more recent phenomenon; really picking up from the 80s/90s - the legal technicalities of how those immigrants came varies a lot more than the original Maghrebin wave (some illegal immigration that was later regularised; some asylum seekers; some student or work visas; lots of regroupement familial).

[PSOL]

Well things are heating up with French students, Macron will go down in history as the one responsible for the death of the current republic at this rate

[Antonio the Sixth]

Well things are heating up with French students, Macron will go down in history as the one responsible for the death of the current republic at this rate

As much as I'd love to see it happen, the Fifth Republic has been through much worse.

[Lechasseur]

I know a lot of left-wingers want to see a Sixth Republic, but what would be different between that and the current Fifth Republic? I never really understood it.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I know a lot of left-wingers want to see a Sixth Republic, but what would be different between that and the current Fifth Republic? I never really understood it.

EVERYTHING

The current system is basically the worst of both worlds, with the shallow personality-centric politics of a presidential regime combined with the servile, rubber-stamp parliament that you normally see in Westminster-type systems (although not in Westminster right now ). A movement in either direction would be preferable, but the most important thing is to break down all the shackles that the 1958 constitution put on parliamentary autonomy from the government, and put cabinet selection truly in parliament's hands. It would be even better to get rid of direct election of the president altogether, but sadly I doubt it would be possible to get people on board with that.