France General Discussion IV: Yellow Fever

[Swedish Rainbow Capitalist Cheese]

I mean, with-out agreeing or disagreeing with Antonio on the merits of the Fifth republic, the idea that parliamentary systems are inherently more unstable and change leaders more often is not actually true.

Tage Erlander managed to be Prime Minister of Sweden for 23 years in a parliamentary system, Helmut Kohl was Chancellor for 16 years in a parliamentary system. Even in the supposedly unstable Netherlands, the current PM is in his 9th year in office and his predecessor served for 8 years.
   

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Some French truckers blocked our border on the highway in my city out of protest against Macron for hours and hours.

[parochial boy]

Worth at least mentioning today’s general strike surely? Inspired by a set of pension reforms (details tbc), but the country is theoretically on shut down until further notice...

[Lechasseur]

Worth at least mentioning today’s general strike surely? Inspired by a set of pension reforms (details tbc), but the country is theoretically on shut down until further notice...

Yeah most public transport in my city is shut down today. Fortunately for me the line I use is basically the only one that isn't shut down. But half of my class is absent today...

Then one of my friends most likely failed his exams because of the strike, as originally he was supposed to have 9 exams over 5 days but due to the strike the exam calendar was modified to 9 exams in 3 days. 3 exams per day is too much.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I can understand being sceptical of what Macaroon's proposal is likely to be and getting the ball rolling on protesting, but striking even before a proposal is released seems stupid as it's more likely to get people mad at you rather than with you.

[Kingpoleon]

I can understand being sceptical of what Macaroon's proposal is likely to be and getting the ball rolling on protesting, but striking even before a proposal is released seems stupid as it's more likely to get people mad at you rather than with you.

Undeniably, many French people are perhaps... overly in love with the idea of protests/activism being a vital function of democracy.

[Antonio the Sixth]

I can understand being sceptical of what Macaroon's proposal is likely to be and getting the ball rolling on protesting, but striking even before a proposal is released seems stupid as it's more likely to get people mad at you rather than with you.

Undeniably, many French people are perhaps... overly in love with the idea of protests/activism being a vital function of democracy.

Guilty as charged.

There's a lot I don't like about modern France, but the fact that we're one of the last countries where workers are willing to rise up en masse to resist the continued destruction of their livelihoods for the benefits of the billionaires class is something I'm very proud of.

[Kingpoleon]

Ideological strikes, designed to damage your political opponents, until your side seizes power. Surely you can understand why I’m not completely comfortable with that, right?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Ideological strikes, designed to damage your political opponents, until your side seizes power. Surely you can understand why I’m not completely comfortable with that, right?

...what in the world is that even supposed to mean

Every strike is "ideological" in the sense that it's about achieving or preventing a given policy outcome that maps onto the ideological spectrum. The fact that you can't seem to understand that I care about substantive outcomes for real human beings, not about benefiting "my side" politically (wtf is even "my side"? I dislike every major French party at this point) suggests to me that your brain has been poisoned by excessive exposure to toxic US politics.

[Lechasseur]

Just heard news about the strike on the radio, apparently it's supposed to continue until at least Tuesday.

[parochial boy]

My experience of trains in provincial France is that services are so, er, sparse that you'd hardly even notice the difference. That might have something to do with what the gilets jaunes were complaining about?

(have on several occasions had to wait three plus hours in Caen to try and get a train in the general direction of Brittany. Even then, the furthest I ever managed to get was Dol)

[Kingpoleon]

...what in the world is that even supposed to mean

Every strike is "ideological" in the sense that it's about achieving or preventing a given policy outcome that maps onto the ideological spectrum. The fact that you can't seem to understand that I care about substantive outcomes for real human beings, not about benefiting "my side" politically (wtf is even "my side"? I dislike every major French party at this point) suggests to me that your brain has been poisoned by excessive exposure to toxic US politics.

What’s the point? To make Macron resign? You don’t even know what his proposal is yet, so it’s not really about changing the proposal. French strikes are hurting its GDP growth and its economic stability, and the more they happen? The less investor confidence there will be in France, and that will hurt your country.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

French far-left leader Mélenchon sentenced for intimidation

[Zinneke]

French far-left leader Mélenchon sentenced for intimidation

Will he follow his mantra of "non-condemned people shouldn't stand in elections"?

[Epaminondas]

Mr Mélenchon was filmed shouting "I am the Republic!" at a police officer and shoving him. With colleagues he then tried to break into the party HQ.

Hah, patently dramatised spin from the BBC but they do make the scene quite funny.

[LAKISYLVANIA]

Out of solidarity, i'll probably on tuesday join protests with PCF together with my party in Lille.

[urutzizu]

Macron surrenders on the most controversial Part of the pension reform. The Government is ready to abandon the retirement Age raise from 62 to 64 Years. The moderate Unions (CFDT, Unsa) are satisfied.

The radical Unions want to continue to strike until *all* of the Pension reform is abandoned. Macron still wants to streamline the Dozens of special pension regimes into one single regime.

But still, the most controversial and arguably most Important Aspect has been removed. More Importantly it signifies that Macron was indeed not *the one* who would finally manage to "reform" France. He held out longer than Sarkozy, Juppe et. al. But like them he was forced to fold in the end.

https://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2020/01/11/retraites-le-gouvernement-pret-a-retirer-l-age-pivot-de-64-ans-pour-les-departs-avant-2027_6025556_823448.html

[Tirnam]

Not really.

The government abandons this measure if the unions can find an alternative by April, if they don't this measure will be enforced.

And it was the most controversial because Macron always said during the presidential campaign and even a few months ago that he will not raise the retirement age but it's not the most important aspect of the pension reform.

[parochial boy]

Édouard Philippe deciding to 49.3 the pension reform is worth marking surely? Nothing like taking advantage of people being distracted in order to override the concepts of representative democracy.

[brucejoel99]

Édouard Philippe deciding to 49.3 the pension reform is worth marking surely? Nothing like taking advantage of people being distracted, to override the concepts of representative democracy.

It took a whole month to pass one article of the law... out of 64. Is it democratic for the Parliament to be unable to function despite the government having a clear majority therein?

And 49.3 has been routinely used by previous governments. It's not ideal, but it's the way that the Constitution provides the government with the ability to accelerate the legislative process & pass legislation once a minority (no matter how significant) has decided to obstruct, & the governments of the Fifth Republic have been stronger for it.

[Silent Hunter]

What's 49.3?

[Zinneke]

Édouard Philippe deciding to 49.3 the pension reform is worth marking surely? Nothing like taking advantage of people being distracted in order to override the concepts of representative democracy.

Have to agree with Bruce Joel here, the issue is the amendments that the opposition deliberately used to sabotage the legislative process and create a pantomine show so they can also do their silly flashmobs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBQX6hjLtRE

MalaiseTV


But yeah, right now the French opposition strategy is to make sure the Gillets Jaunes, the protests, all of that, continue thanks to their stalling efforts. They have no interest in actually influencing policy because they are touching themselves at the idea of prolonged social unrest in France.

[Lechasseur]

The Ile de France, the region Paris is in, is supposed to go under a Wuhan styled shutdown (total confinement) starting tomorrow according to the French media.

I'm really getting scared now.

[T'Chenka]

The Ile de France, the region Paris is in, is supposed to go under a Wuhan styled shutdown (total confinement) starting tomorrow according to the French media.

I'm really getting scared now.

This is a good thing. They are flattening the curve as much as possible and minomizing deaths. Full democracy will be restored soon. Take a deep breath monsieur.

[Lechasseur]

https://amp.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/coronavirus-une-plainte-contre-edouard-philippe-et-agnes-buzyn-a-ete-deposee-20200321

A criminal complaint has been filed by a group of doctors and other healthcare professionals against Prime Minister Edouard Philippe and former Minister of Health and current LREM nominee for Paris City Hall Agnès Buzyn for "mensonge d'État", "lies by the state" in English, due to their handling of the coronavirus pandemic (basically by hiding how serious it was and not doing anything about it until it was already basically too late).