Loudest applause line at CPAC: “Democrats are not Americans but the enemy”

[The Dowager Mod]

https://twitter.com/EvyMages/status/1101914521919209472

[Fuzzy Bear]

America could be a better nation.

If my wife ended every suggestion that I was a good husband with, "He could be slimmer!" or "He could make more money!", I don't think I'd be convinced that she loved me.  If that were the case, our song would be Weird Al Yankovic's "Good Enough For Now".

Ok, I'll meet you in the middle.  I'll agree: America is a good nation.  Will you agree that it could be a better nation?

Well, of course, I'd agree to that.   Ilhan Omar and AOC don't agree, however.  They believe that America is a steaming pile of racist trash.

You literally voted for a president who's central, overarching campaign plank was that America isn't great. His opponent, who you have regularly bashed and demonized, always countered with America is great and always will be.

The argument is over. You lose.

I didn't lose.  You can't read.

My concern is whether or not America is a GOOD Nation.  America has always been a GOOD Nation.  A Good Nation with flaws that it has needed to rectify, and has, in some cases, been slow to rectify.  But a GOOD Nation.  A Nation that is a force for Good in the World.

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.  They do not believe America to be a Good Nation.  There are others who cannot speak unequivocally positively about America, not even for one post.  I've got my flaws, but if my wife could never discuss me without mentioning my faults, I'd conclude that she didn't love me and only stayed with me because it was the most convenient option.  (Thankfully, that's not the case!)  That's how lots of people here speak of America, their country.  It's their right to do so, but they can at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that on this issue, Naso was right about what he posted about them.

[7,052,770]

America could be a better nation.

If my wife ended every suggestion that I was a good husband with, "He could be slimmer!" or "He could make more money!", I don't think I'd be convinced that she loved me.  If that were the case, our song would be Weird Al Yankovic's "Good Enough For Now".

Ok, I'll meet you in the middle.  I'll agree: America is a good nation.  Will you agree that it could be a better nation?

Well, of course, I'd agree to that.   Ilhan Omar and AOC don't agree, however.  They believe that America is a steaming pile of racist trash.

You literally voted for a president who's central, overarching campaign plank was that America isn't great. His opponent, who you have regularly bashed and demonized, always countered with America is great and always will be.

The argument is over. You lose.

I didn't lose.  You can't read.

My concern is whether or not America is a GOOD Nation.  America has always been a GOOD Nation.  A Good Nation with flaws that it has needed to rectify, and has, in some cases, been slow to rectify.  But a GOOD Nation.  A Nation that is a force for Good in the World.

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.  They do not believe America to be a Good Nation.  There are others who cannot speak unequivocally positively about America, not even for one post.  I've got my flaws, but if my wife could never discuss me without mentioning my faults, I'd conclude that she didn't love me and only stayed with me because it was the most convenient option.  (Thankfully, that's not the case!)  That's how lots of people here speak of America, their country.  It's their right to do so, but they can at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that on this issue, Naso was right about what he posted about them.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

America could be a better nation.

If my wife ended every suggestion that I was a good husband with, "He could be slimmer!" or "He could make more money!", I don't think I'd be convinced that she loved me.  If that were the case, our song would be Weird Al Yankovic's "Good Enough For Now".

Ok, I'll meet you in the middle.  I'll agree: America is a good nation.  Will you agree that it could be a better nation?

Well, of course, I'd agree to that.   Ilhan Omar and AOC don't agree, however.  They believe that America is a steaming pile of racist trash.

You literally voted for a president who's central, overarching campaign plank was that America isn't great. His opponent, who you have regularly bashed and demonized, always countered with America is great and always will be.

The argument is over. You lose.

I didn't lose.  You can't read.

My concern is whether or not America is a GOOD Nation.  America has always been a GOOD Nation.  A Good Nation with flaws that it has needed to rectify, and has, in some cases, been slow to rectify.  But a GOOD Nation.  A Nation that is a force for Good in the World.

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.  They do not believe America to be a Good Nation.  There are others who cannot speak unequivocally positively about America, not even for one post.  I've got my flaws, but if my wife could never discuss me without mentioning my faults, I'd conclude that she didn't love me and only stayed with me because it was the most convenient option.  (Thankfully, that's not the case!)  That's how lots of people here speak of America, their country.  It's their right to do so, but they can at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that on this issue, Naso was right about what he posted about them.

Naso’s vision of America is a dystopian nightmare.  People like him are more out of touch with this country’s values than the immigrants they’d see locked up in cages like stray dogs at a kennel.  Ultimately, Naso is a racist, anti-Semitic, misogynistic bigot who thinks sex predators belong in the Oval Office and on our highest court and that society should tell their victims to shut up and smile more often.  He wouldn’t know what makes America great from a hole in the ground.  At the end of the day, that’s just who he is and while I won’t put words in your mouth, I have to think that at some level you know this is true.

[PragmaticPopulist]

CPAC isn't really about ideas anymore.

I certainly know better, having grown up around many people who supported Trump.

[Fuzzy Bear]

America could be a better nation.

If my wife ended every suggestion that I was a good husband with, "He could be slimmer!" or "He could make more money!", I don't think I'd be convinced that she loved me.  If that were the case, our song would be Weird Al Yankovic's "Good Enough For Now".

Ok, I'll meet you in the middle.  I'll agree: America is a good nation.  Will you agree that it could be a better nation?

Well, of course, I'd agree to that.   Ilhan Omar and AOC don't agree, however.  They believe that America is a steaming pile of racist trash.

You literally voted for a president who's central, overarching campaign plank was that America isn't great. His opponent, who you have regularly bashed and demonized, always countered with America is great and always will be.

The argument is over. You lose.

I didn't lose.  You can't read.

My concern is whether or not America is a GOOD Nation.  America has always been a GOOD Nation.  A Good Nation with flaws that it has needed to rectify, and has, in some cases, been slow to rectify.  But a GOOD Nation.  A Nation that is a force for Good in the World.

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.  They do not believe America to be a Good Nation.  There are others who cannot speak unequivocally positively about America, not even for one post.  I've got my flaws, but if my wife could never discuss me without mentioning my faults, I'd conclude that she didn't love me and only stayed with me because it was the most convenient option.  (Thankfully, that's not the case!)  That's how lots of people here speak of America, their country.  It's their right to do so, but they can at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that on this issue, Naso was right about what he posted about them.

Naso’s vision of America is a dystopian nightmare.  People like him are more out of touch with this country’s values than the immigrants they’d see locked up in cages like stray dogs at a kennel.  Ultimately, Naso is a racist, anti-Semitic, misogynistic bigot who thinks sex predators belong in the Oval Office and on our highest court and that society should tell their victims to shut up and smile more often.  He wouldn’t know what makes America great from a hole in the ground.  At the end of the day, that’s just who he is and while I won’t put words in your mouth, I have to think that at some level you know this is true.

That well may be Naso's vision.  I'll allow him to clear that up.  That's not my vision.

My vision of America is a land of the Rule of Law where people can disagree with each other without resorting to Religious or Political Jihad; where people don't take up arms when their party loses an election, where people have the right to be different and to be left alone about it and not harassed, but where others aren't required to proclaim that someone else's way is just as good as their way (even if others have just the same rights to pursue their chosen way).

My way is a way of real tolerance, and real tolerance is something that Biblical Christianity reflects, and which God, and only God, makes possible (for Believers and Unbelievers, alike).  "Insofar as it is possible with you (emphasis added), live peaceably with all men."  This is a command of Scripture, and this is America at its best.  And America's Best shows itself far, far more often than America's Worst shows itself (although people who are on Social Media all the time will never know this). 

Even that vision isn't good enough for many here.  All they choose to see is racism, sexism, etc.  They cannot say they love America without major qualifiers (at best).  Many here on the left flat-out don't love America; they love their own identity group and their own identity politics.  That is not the ideal of America; the ideal of America is E Pluribus Unum.  But the Unum is the key to Goodness, as well as Greatness.

I love America, and I believe America is a Good Nation and a Force for Good.  Not a perfect nation, but a Good Nation.  Without qualification and without apology.  I believe you'd like my vision of America.  I believe many here would as well, once they got over the torture of giving up their identity politics addictions.

[T'Chenka]

My vision of America is a land of the Rule of Law where people can disagree with each other without resorting to Religious or Political Jihad; where people don't take up arms when their party loses an election, where people have the right to be different and to be left alone about it and not harassed, but where others aren't required to proclaim that someone else's way is just as good as their way (even if others have just the same rights to pursue their chosen way).

Trump doesn't have any respect for the rule of law though, only some (limited) fear of consequences / getting caught. Republicans used to be obsessed with the Rule Of Law, but now they only care when it suits their agenda. Which means many of them are complete hypocrites not to be taken seriously on this issue AT ALL.

I do mostly agree with you about political jihad, but there ARE situations that call for drastic action. The president being incompetent and unable to fulfill his duties to serve our country properly, the president cozying up to dictators while attacking the free press and seperation of powers, etc. You get one side defending Trump and one side wanting him impeached, so Dems at first glance seem to be acting like partisan jihadists. The reality is though, if during the 2015 primaries (for the 2016 election) you had held a gun to the head of each and every person who is now a representative in 2019 for EITHER party, and forced them all to write short essays about what is uncceptable presidential behaviour / impeachable and what is not, and we dug up those essays now, 99% of the non-hypocrites - regardless of party or politics -  would have a consensus that Trump is garbage that needs to be tossed out.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

America could be a better nation.

If my wife ended every suggestion that I was a good husband with, "He could be slimmer!" or "He could make more money!", I don't think I'd be convinced that she loved me.  If that were the case, our song would be Weird Al Yankovic's "Good Enough For Now".

Ok, I'll meet you in the middle.  I'll agree: America is a good nation.  Will you agree that it could be a better nation?

Well, of course, I'd agree to that.   Ilhan Omar and AOC don't agree, however.  They believe that America is a steaming pile of racist trash.

You literally voted for a president who's central, overarching campaign plank was that America isn't great. His opponent, who you have regularly bashed and demonized, always countered with America is great and always will be.

The argument is over. You lose.

I didn't lose.  You can't read.

My concern is whether or not America is a GOOD Nation.  America has always been a GOOD Nation.  A Good Nation with flaws that it has needed to rectify, and has, in some cases, been slow to rectify.  But a GOOD Nation.  A Nation that is a force for Good in the World.

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.  They do not believe America to be a Good Nation.  There are others who cannot speak unequivocally positively about America, not even for one post.  I've got my flaws, but if my wife could never discuss me without mentioning my faults, I'd conclude that she didn't love me and only stayed with me because it was the most convenient option.  (Thankfully, that's not the case!)  That's how lots of people here speak of America, their country.  It's their right to do so, but they can at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that on this issue, Naso was right about what he posted about them.

Naso’s vision of America is a dystopian nightmare.  People like him are more out of touch with this country’s values than the immigrants they’d see locked up in cages like stray dogs at a kennel.  Ultimately, Naso is a racist, anti-Semitic, misogynistic bigot who thinks sex predators belong in the Oval Office and on our highest court and that society should tell their victims to shut up and smile more often.  He wouldn’t know what makes America great from a hole in the ground.  At the end of the day, that’s just who he is and while I won’t put words in your mouth, I have to think that at some level you know this is true.

That well may be Naso's vision.  I'll allow him to clear that up.  That's not my vision.

My vision of America is a land of the Rule of Law where people can disagree with each other without resorting to Religious or Political Jihad; where people don't take up arms when their party loses an election, where people have the right to be different and to be left alone about it and not harassed, but where others aren't required to proclaim that someone else's way is just as good as their way (even if others have just the same rights to pursue their chosen way).

My way is a way of real tolerance, and real tolerance is something that Biblical Christianity reflects, and which God, and only God, makes possible (for Believers and Unbelievers, alike).  "Insofar as it is possible with you (emphasis added), live peaceably with all men."  This is a command of Scripture, and this is America at its best.  And America's Best shows itself far, far more often than America's Worst shows itself (although people who are on Social Media all the time will never know this). 

Even that vision isn't good enough for many here.  All they choose to see is racism, sexism, etc.  They cannot say they love America without major qualifiers (at best).  Many here on the left flat-out don't love America; they love their own identity group and their own identity politics.  That is not the ideal of America; the ideal of America is E Pluribus Unum.  But the Unum is the key to Goodness, as well as Greatness.

I love America, and I believe America is a Good Nation and a Force for Good.  Not a perfect nation, but a Good Nation.  Without qualification and without apology.  I believe you'd like my vision of America.  I believe many here would as well, once they got over the torture of giving up their identity politics addictions.

I obviously agree that America is fundamentally a force for good in the world, despite its flaws (see, plenty of liberals feel that way too).  However, with exception of a very small number of fringe looneys, the vast majority on the left love America just as much as you or I do.  And more importantly, one can simultaneously recognize the good and bad in their country at once.  No one party or ideology has a monopoly on patriotism or American values.  Ideally, we’re all in thing together at the end of the day, you know?

And just to be clear, I’m not saying what I described was your vision of America (as I’ve said in the past, I think you’re one of the better blue-avatar posters on Atlas and definitely someone I could work with were we both in the same legislature despite significant ideological disagreement), I was speaking strictly about Naso. 

[JA]

America could be a better nation.

If my wife ended every suggestion that I was a good husband with, "He could be slimmer!" or "He could make more money!", I don't think I'd be convinced that she loved me.  If that were the case, our song would be Weird Al Yankovic's "Good Enough For Now".

Ok, I'll meet you in the middle.  I'll agree: America is a good nation.  Will you agree that it could be a better nation?

Well, of course, I'd agree to that.   Ilhan Omar and AOC don't agree, however.  They believe that America is a steaming pile of racist trash.

You literally voted for a president who's central, overarching campaign plank was that America isn't great. His opponent, who you have regularly bashed and demonized, always countered with America is great and always will be.

The argument is over. You lose.

I didn't lose.  You can't read.

My concern is whether or not America is a GOOD Nation.  America has always been a GOOD Nation.  A Good Nation with flaws that it has needed to rectify, and has, in some cases, been slow to rectify.  But a GOOD Nation.  A Nation that is a force for Good in the World.

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.  They do not believe America to be a Good Nation.  There are others who cannot speak unequivocally positively about America, not even for one post.  I've got my flaws, but if my wife could never discuss me without mentioning my faults, I'd conclude that she didn't love me and only stayed with me because it was the most convenient option.  (Thankfully, that's not the case!)  That's how lots of people here speak of America, their country.  It's their right to do so, but they can at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that on this issue, Naso was right about what he posted about them.

America isn't an inherently good nation. It was founded by colonial settlers who engaged in an enormous genocide against the Natives through processes of organized violence that lasted centuries. It forcefully relocated the Natives and attempted to exterminate entire ethnic groups while simultaneously seizing their land, deliberately infecting them with deadly diseases, raping their women, razing their communities, appropriating their knowledge of the local environment and agricultural crops and methods, and decimating much of the wildlife upon which they depended. Treaties were repeatedly violated or outright broken as the land reserved for the Natives shrunk and was increasingly relegated to the most uninhabitable areas of the country.

At the same time, America became a slaveholding society that created a plantation aristocracy that systematically and deliberately developed systemic and cultural racism against Native and African Americans. Imported African slaves, whose labor was forcefully appropriated on land that was stolen and appropriated from the Natives, contributed enormously to the cultivation of wealth and power of the American Colonies and its emergent aristocracy while receiving nothing in return. Cheap immigrant labor from Europe, largely of non-Protestant origin, became the backbone of America's emerging industry in the North. The displaced peasants of Europe were used as cheap, disposable labor by American factory, textile, mill, and shipyard owners. The immigrant workers and their families were forced to endure working conditions that were frequently 16 hours long, lacked basic safety regulations, and provided abysmal compensation, while also crammed into overcrowded, unsafe housing and systematically discriminated against.

America is a colonial settler state built on the foundations of genocide, land theft, racialized slavery,  cheap immigrant labor, and White Supremacy (along with homophobia, sexism, classism, xenophobia, etc...). Those things are difficult to purge from a system - especially when that system was founded by a class composed exclusively of men and many of whom were slave owners.

That doesn't make the entirety of American society damnable - especially not the American people. But, America as a nation - particularly its past and institutions - are certainly damnable.

[Rookie Yinzer]

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.

But this is literally America in a nutshell. LOL. The incoming paragraph full of meaningless platitudes you come up with will not change that.

[Ban my account ffs!]

America could be a better nation.

If my wife ended every suggestion that I was a good husband with, "He could be slimmer!" or "He could make more money!", I don't think I'd be convinced that she loved me.  If that were the case, our song would be Weird Al Yankovic's "Good Enough For Now".

Ok, I'll meet you in the middle.  I'll agree: America is a good nation.  Will you agree that it could be a better nation?

Well, of course, I'd agree to that.   Ilhan Omar and AOC don't agree, however.  They believe that America is a steaming pile of racist trash.

You literally voted for a president who's central, overarching campaign plank was that America isn't great. His opponent, who you have regularly bashed and demonized, always countered with America is great and always will be.

The argument is over. You lose.

I didn't lose.  You can't read.

My concern is whether or not America is a GOOD Nation.  America has always been a GOOD Nation.  A Good Nation with flaws that it has needed to rectify, and has, in some cases, been slow to rectify.  But a GOOD Nation.  A Nation that is a force for Good in the World.

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.  They do not believe America to be a Good Nation.  There are others who cannot speak unequivocally positively about America, not even for one post.  I've got my flaws, but if my wife could never discuss me without mentioning my faults, I'd conclude that she didn't love me and only stayed with me because it was the most convenient option.  (Thankfully, that's not the case!)  That's how lots of people here speak of America, their country.  It's their right to do so, but they can at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that on this issue, Naso was right about what he posted about them.

America isn't an inherently good nation. It was founded by colonial settlers who engaged in an enormous genocide against the Natives through processes of organized violence that lasted centuries. It forcefully relocated the Natives and attempted to exterminate entire ethnic groups while simultaneously seizing their land, deliberately infecting them with deadly diseases, raping their women, razing their communities, appropriating their knowledge of the local environment and agricultural crops and methods, and decimating much of the wildlife upon which they depended. Treaties were repeatedly violated or outright broken as the land reserved for the Natives shrunk and was increasingly relegated to the most uninhabitable areas of the country.

At the same time, America became a slaveholding society that created a plantation aristocracy that systematically and deliberately developed systemic and cultural racism against Native and African Americans. Imported African slaves, whose labor was forcefully appropriated on land that was stolen and appropriated from the Natives, contributed enormously to the cultivation of wealth and power of the American Colonies and its emergent aristocracy while receiving nothing in return. Cheap immigrant labor from Europe, largely of non-Protestant origin, became the backbone of America's emerging industry in the North. The displaced peasants of Europe were used as cheap, disposable labor by American factory, textile, mill, and shipyard owners. The immigrant workers and their families were forced to endure working conditions that were frequently 16 hours long, lacked basic safety regulations, and provided abysmal compensation, while also crammed into overcrowded, unsafe housing and systematically discriminated against.

America is a colonial settler state built on the foundations of genocide, land theft, racialized slavery,  cheap immigrant labor, and White Supremacy (along with homophobia, sexism, classism, xenophobia, etc...). Those things are difficult to purge from a system - especially when that system was founded by a class composed exclusively of men and many of whom were slave owners.

That doesn't make the entirety of American society damnable - especially not the American people. But, America as a nation - particularly its past and institutions - are certainly damnable.

In so many ways, fascism in the early 20th century sought to do this same thing, but on densely populated areas of Europe and sections of Africa.  They did not have the “benefit” of encountering an eastern European population with no immunity to highly communicable diseases, so they deported them eastward or killed them outright.  With the Jews and other “undesirables” and “enemies”, it was a purposeful mass murder/annihilation meant to be as efficient as smallpox was on the Native Americans.

As these things go, it was a progression.  First the Jews were “just” demonized by the media and brownshirts assaulting and harrassing Jews.  Hitler entertained deporting Jews to anyone who would take them.  Nobody wanted them. 

So he put them in tiny reservations (ghettos) that were meant to starve them over time.

Then came the extermination via gas vans and gas chambers at death camps and then working them to death at concentration camps.

There was not an organized effort like this in America to annihilate the Native Americans...but isolated incidents and people who did it on smaller scales.

We did force the remaining Natives westward into other established tribes.  The tribes with guns got the land and the losers moved west. 

But we have let the fact we didn’t literally gas them and document it and the addition of time plus plenty of propaganda convince us it wasn’t so bad.  But think about it.  What was the trail of tears?  The forced removal of people from their homelands, literally marched westward, to the death of many, to lands they didn’t know or understand.

Being confined to small patches of unproductive land was leading to starvation so the government begrudgingly gave the Natives flour and fat.  From this they made fry bread.  It became a universal symbol for a great multitude of different tribes and cultures of the relationship they had with the government of their colonizers.

Today in my hometown the jail serves frybread tacos once a month to the majority native American inmate population (they make up about 15% of the population overall).  Poverty, obesity, alcoholism, drug addiction, domestic violence and sexual abuse in the Native community are rampant.  Racism is a big problem.  But one thing I notice is just how even more racist people are towards Natives in areas where there aren’t any.  Like racism against east Asians, it is still somehow acceptable to be openly racist against Native Americans.

America is not some great paragon of freedom and hope.  We are great because we climbed to the top, using African Americans’ labor and Native Americans’ land as stepping stools.

We are a deeply, deeply flawed nation with some very hard truths to work out.  Being able to point these things out, accept them as the huge original sins and foundations of our nation’s history....and not repeating them, not encouraging or enabling them abroad, and seeking to rectify these actions at least through education and seeking equality to the descendants of those communities that were destroyed or exploited...that...would make us a good country.  We try...but it’s not good enough.

As for Naso’s vision of America...it is dangerous and terrifying.  It smacks heavily of Handmaid’s Tale...because you could never make this country how he wants it without a horrific authoritarian rule that would upend and destroy much of our society and nation.  His hatred of America seems only to be getting stronger.

[parochial boy]

Ag, nations aren't inherently good or bad - they're collections of people creating a certain mythology out of a perception of historical myths and perceived cultural norms.

In that respect, it is vital, hugely vital, to be cognizant of the darker and less salubrious side of a nation's history - so as to prevent from eulogising a set of myths that are, at best, partially true. But at the same time, you can't condemn a nation on what it did in the past; unless you want to assign people with some sort of collective guilt base on what is, after all, a socially constructed identity.

[Fuzzy Bear]

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.

But this is literally America in a nutshell. LOL. The incoming paragraph full of meaningless platitudes you come up with will not change that.

I cannot support people for public office who view America as you do.  America isn't perfect, not at all, and I think folks ought to be introspective about it without the hatred for it that you manifest.  But I could not imagine you ever taking a grievance I, myself, would have seriously.  I believe you actively resent White Americans, and that unmitigated resentment would get in the way of your objectivity (granting that no one is perfectly objective).  That's fine, too, until you, or somewhat like you, runs for office and actually get elected. Then, I am in the position of having an elected official that does not care about my concerns at all.  I can understand that you may view yourself in that situation depending on who represents you in GA.  I only suggest that this cuts both ways.

[Big Abraham]

Ag, nations aren't inherently good or bad - they're collections of people creating a certain mythology out of a perception of historical myths and perceived cultural norms.

In that respect, it is vital, hugely vital, to be cognizant of the darker and less salubrious side of a nation's history - so as to prevent from eulogising a set of myths that are, at best, partially true. But at the same time, you can't condemn a nation on what it did in the past; unless you want to assign people with some sort of collective guilt base on what is, after all, a socially constructed identity.

[NEW JERSEY FOR MENENDEZ]

You guys want to destroy our culture, surrender our national sovereignty, and destroy every western tradition, and take our guns while at the same time looking down your noses at these people with nothing but contempt.

So yeah, you are the enemy.

2009 called, they want their meme back.

[Devout Centrist]

You guys want to destroy our culture, surrender our national sovereignty, and destroy every western tradition, and take our guns while at the same time looking down your noses at these people with nothing but contempt.

So yeah, you are the enemy.

When can I expect a bomb in my mailbox?

[GeorgiaModerate]

Ag, nations aren't inherently good or bad - they're collections of people creating a certain mythology out of a perception of historical myths and perceived cultural norms.

In that respect, it is vital, hugely vital, to be cognizant of the darker and less salubrious side of a nation's history - so as to prevent from eulogising a set of myths that are, at best, partially true. But at the same time, you can't condemn a nation on what it did in the past; unless you want to assign people with some sort of collective guilt base on what is, after all, a socially constructed identity.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

Why is it such a threat to some that others bring up less than savory points in our past? Understanding our own faults is an important step in living up to our ideals. The importance of the ideals of the founders is not that they contained exclusion, but that they contained the materials from which we could build inclusion.

[7,052,770]

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.

But this is literally America in a nutshell. LOL. The incoming paragraph full of meaningless platitudes you come up with will not change that.

I cannot support people for public office who view America as you do.  America isn't perfect, not at all, and I think folks ought to be introspective about it without the hatred for it that you manifest.  But I could not imagine you ever taking a grievance I, myself, would have seriously.  I believe you actively resent White Americans, and that unmitigated resentment would get in the way of your objectivity (granting that no one is perfectly objective).  That's fine, too, until you, or somewhat like you, runs for office and actually get elected. Then, I am in the position of having an elected official that does not care about my concerns at all.  I can understand that you may view yourself in that situation depending on who represents you in GA.  I only suggest that this cuts both ways.

You supported Trump, who has a much lower opinion of America than any nationally prominent Democrat or most any (255,0,0) red avatar here.

[Fuzzy Bear]

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.

But this is literally America in a nutshell. LOL. The incoming paragraph full of meaningless platitudes you come up with will not change that.

I cannot support people for public office who view America as you do.  America isn't perfect, not at all, and I think folks ought to be introspective about it without the hatred for it that you manifest.  But I could not imagine you ever taking a grievance I, myself, would have seriously.  I believe you actively resent White Americans, and that unmitigated resentment would get in the way of your objectivity (granting that no one is perfectly objective).  That's fine, too, until you, or somewhat like you, runs for office and actually get elected. Then, I am in the position of having an elected official that does not care about my concerns at all.  I can understand that you may view yourself in that situation depending on who represents you in GA.  I only suggest that this cuts both ways.

You supported Trump, who has a much lower opinion of America than any nationally prominent Democrat or most any (255,0,0) red avatar here.

Nonsense, of course, but you're pretty hard up for intellectually sound arguments at this point, so we'll roll with that.

[7,052,770]

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.

But this is literally America in a nutshell. LOL. The incoming paragraph full of meaningless platitudes you come up with will not change that.

I cannot support people for public office who view America as you do.  America isn't perfect, not at all, and I think folks ought to be introspective about it without the hatred for it that you manifest.  But I could not imagine you ever taking a grievance I, myself, would have seriously.  I believe you actively resent White Americans, and that unmitigated resentment would get in the way of your objectivity (granting that no one is perfectly objective).  That's fine, too, until you, or somewhat like you, runs for office and actually get elected. Then, I am in the position of having an elected official that does not care about my concerns at all.  I can understand that you may view yourself in that situation depending on who represents you in GA.  I only suggest that this cuts both ways.

You supported Trump, who has a much lower opinion of America than any nationally prominent Democrat or most any (255,0,0) red avatar here.

Nonsense, of course, but you're pretty hard up for intellectually sound arguments at this point, so we'll roll with that.

Such a nasty man, always lobbing viscous, mean-spirited insults, even at the people who go out of their way to defend him.

[Hindsight was 2020]

There are people here who cannot mention America without mentioning racism, imperialism, materialism, and chronic diarrhea.

But this is literally America in a nutshell. LOL. The incoming paragraph full of meaningless platitudes you come up with will not change that.

I cannot support people for public office who view America as you do.  America isn't perfect, not at all, and I think folks ought to be introspective about it without the hatred for it that you manifest.  But I could not imagine you ever taking a grievance I, myself, would have seriously.  I believe you actively resent White Americans, and that unmitigated resentment would get in the way of your objectivity (granting that no one is perfectly objective).  That's fine, too, until you, or somewhat like you, runs for office and actually get elected. Then, I am in the position of having an elected official that does not care about my concerns at all.  I can understand that you may view yourself in that situation depending on who represents you in GA.  I only suggest that this cuts both ways.

You supported Trump, who has a much lower opinion of America than any nationally prominent Democrat or most any (255,0,0) red avatar here.

Nonsense, of course, but you're pretty hard up for intellectually sound arguments at this point, so we'll roll with that.

Mind actually explaining why it’s nonsense instead of lobbying insults?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Btw, no offense, but I gotta say Fuzzy, it occurs to me that it must require some pretty serious cognitive dissonance for one to be a Trump supporter and talk simultaneously stress the importance of maintenaning the rule of law.  Trump is defined in no small part by his cynical contempt for the very notion of the supremacy of the rule of law.  The man has literally been a blatant crook for his entire professional life and is currently an unindicted co-conspirator in a criminal conspiracy which also involved his personal lawyer, his company’s CFO, and one of his sons. 

Trump is going to be charged with and likely convicted of multiple felonies in less than five years (likely becoming the first former President to serve time in prison).  He has committed multiple counts of obstruction of justice and actively tried to undermine public trust in the FBI, his own Deputy AG, and numerous other public servants who put their country first when the rubber hit the road.  He fired his own Attorney General for following the law and recusing himself from an investigation in which he had a conflict instead of being “my [Trump’s] Roy Cohn.”  The rule of law and Trump go together about as well as anchovies and chocolate ice cream.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Btw, no offense, but I gotta say Fuzzy, it occurs to me that it must require some pretty serious cognitive dissonance for one to be a Trump supporter and talk simultaneously stress the importance of maintenaning the rule of law.  Trump is defined in no small part by his cynical contempt for the very notion of the supremacy of the rule of law.  The man has literally been a blatant crook for his entire professional life and is currently an unindicted co-conspirator in a criminal conspiracy which also involved his personal lawyer, his company’s CFO, and one of his sons.  

Trump is going to be charged with and likely convicted of multiple felonies in less than five years (likely becoming the first former President to serve time in prison).  He has committed multiple counts of obstruction of justice and actively tried to undermine public trust in the FBI, his own Deputy AG, and numerous other public servants who put their country first when the rubber hit the road.  He fired his own Attorney General for following the law and recusing himself from an investigation in which he had a conflict instead of being “my [Trump’s] Roy Cohn.”  The rule of law and Trump go together about as well as anchovies and chocolate ice cream.

The Rule of Law involves the presumption of innocence and Due Process.

Much of what you cite here are political questions, which will be decided in an election, and (possibly) in an impeachment and removal process.  He has every right to fire the AG and fire the FBI Director, regardless of the reason.  That is not, and cannot be, Obstruction of Justice, because a President has every right to fire these folks for whatever reasons he chooses.  If the electorate and the Congress wish to impose political consequences on Trump for these actions, then let them happen.  The assertion that his firing the AG and the FBI Director is Obstruction of Justice criminalizes the normal functioning of the Presidency.  

I'm sure you know far more than I do about this topic, but well into the 1940s, the Courts were reluctant to decide "Political Questions".  The reason the Supreme Court has become a predominant issue in Presidential Elections these days is the withering away of the Court's resistance to entering the "Political Thicket".  To be fair, the conservative jurists have lost this reservation as much as the liberal jurists have.  The Rule of Law has meant that the Courts do not enter the Political Thicket, and it is not a good thing that this is less so.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Btw, no offense, but I gotta say Fuzzy, it occurs to me that it must require some pretty serious cognitive dissonance for one to be a Trump supporter and talk simultaneously stress the importance of maintenaning the rule of law.  Trump is defined in no small part by his cynical contempt for the very notion of the supremacy of the rule of law.  The man has literally been a blatant crook for his entire professional life and is currently an unindicted co-conspirator in a criminal conspiracy which also involved his personal lawyer, his company’s CFO, and one of his sons.  

Trump is going to be charged with and likely convicted of multiple felonies in less than five years (likely becoming the first former President to serve time in prison).  He has committed multiple counts of obstruction of justice and actively tried to undermine public trust in the FBI, his own Deputy AG, and numerous other public servants who put their country first when the rubber hit the road.  He fired his own Attorney General for following the law and recusing himself from an investigation in which he had a conflict instead of being “my [Trump’s] Roy Cohn.”  The rule of law and Trump go together about as well as anchovies and chocolate ice cream.

The Rule of Law involves the presumption of innocence and Due Process.

Much of what you cite here are political questions, which will be decided in an election, and (possibly) in an impeachment and removal process.  He has every right to fire the AG and fire the FBI Director, regardless of the reason.  That is not, and cannot be, Obstruction of Justice, because a President has every right to fire these folks for whatever reasons he chooses.  If the electorate and the Congress wish to impose political consequences on Trump for these actions, then let them happen.  The assertion that his firing the AG and the FBI Director is Obstruction of Justice criminalizes the normal functioning of the Presidency.  

I'm sure you know far more than I do about this topic, but well into the 1940s, the Courts were reluctant to decide "Political Questions".  The reason the Supreme Court has become a predominant issue in Presidential Elections these days is the withering away of the Court's resistance to entering the "Political Thicket".  To be fair, the conservative jurists have lost this reservation as much as the liberal jurists have.  The Rule of Law has meant that the Courts do not enter the Political Thicket, and it is not a good thing that this is less so.

Firing the head of the FBI in order to influence an investigation that the president is implicated in is not a normal function of the presidency