Survivor megathread

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Keith Nale, from Survivor: San Juan Del Sur and Survivor: Cambodia, passed away yesterday at 62

https://fox59.com/news/national-world/survivor-contestant-keith-nale-dies-at-62-family-says

Keith is the 14th former Survivor contestant to pass away.

[Sol]

Keith Nale, from Survivor: San Juan Del Sur and Survivor: Cambodia, passed away yesterday at 62

https://fox59.com/news/national-world/survivor-contestant-keith-nale-dies-at-62-family-says

Keith is the 14th former Survivor contestant to pass away.

Very sad to see--he was so much of what made San Juan del Sur great.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Keith was great! He will be missed. Stick to the plan in his memory.

The play was so stupid. You put votes on one of the three and then make it a tie, I doubt Brandon would have used his idol on anyone but him and then they’d switch or go to rocks.

It was even funnier to see Heidi try and rationalize that this week while shortly after lamenting how Ratu is in the majority which she could have stopped if she planned to use the advantage better.

It was almost as funny as Carolyn's constant screaming in the net. Not that I blame her, I would have had a panic attack doing that part of the challenge. The feeling of being unable to move or get out of something is utterly terrifying to me.

[MasterJedi]

Would have kept Jaime around, she really did nothing.

[7,052,770]

I'm not really sure who my winner prediction is at this point. I feel like Carson, Carolyn, and Yam Yam are all getting a "winner's edit" to some degree, and as we've seen recently, you can win without even getting one of those, so a Lauren win doesn't seem totally out of the question.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Would have kept Jaime around, she really did nothing.

She was my pick for the final three goat, but I guess that's going to be Heidi now.

But Jaime did do something-be completely clueless at the game to the point of it just being hilarious and adorable.

I'm not really sure who my winner prediction is at this point. I feel like Carson, Carolyn, and Yam Yam are all getting a "winner's edit" to some degree, and as we've seen recently, you can win without even getting one of those, so a Lauren win doesn't seem totally out of the question.

I feel confident that it will be one of the Tika Three. I really hope it isn't Carson though. I'd be more than fine with any of the other two.

[7,052,770]

I'm fine with the ending, but (as I've said before, I think) the idea that it's good for someone to give up Immunity to take someone else to fire is crazy. It's a very reckless move, and not one that the jury should ever reward. I'll go so far to say if I ever get on the show, I'll make it known that if I'm on the jury, I'll never vote for a finalist who does that, even if they win.

The show has spent decades dunking on Eric for giving up immunity, but suddenly juries expect contestants to do it? To the point where not doing it probably cost Cassidy the game (or maybe the jury was just making excuses, we'll never know) or applauding Heidi for doing it.

Anyway, I think the key move of the game was Yam-Yam helping out Carson with the fire. That had to play big in getting Carson's jury vote, and it felt like Carson was pushing the jury pretty hard toward Yam-Yam. Interestingly, this is the 4th straight season of a 7-1 final vote.

[7,052,770]

Also, you could have a solid returnee season just with 0-vote finalists now, that fits all casting requirements.

[MasterJedi]

Happy Bruce gets another shot after how last season ended for him.

[Farmlands]

Great season and a solid winner. The Tika three are one of my favourite alliances for sure, each one of them with a different style of gameplay and personality, and their strategy really paid off. I'd say the players I enjoyed the most were Yam-Yam, Carolyn and Jamie.

[Sol]

Also, you could have a solid returnee season just with 0-vote finalists now, that fits all casting requirements.

Of course, Spencer, Noura, and Sugar are never coming back.

[7,052,770]

As far as the chart goes, I think we might have our first ever clean sweep. None of the 18 contestants strike me as likely to be Republican. Danny is probably the most likely, but given his age, hometown (NYC), and what seemed like an LGBT-positive attitude, I would lean toward Democratic.

If there is a "surprise" Republican, maybe Jamie would be the most likely? (Though I still would heavily lean to the Democratic side for her.) I wouldn't say the same for Heidi, as I believe Puerto Ricans living in the states are pretty Democratic, and she spoke about representing women and Latinas a lot in a way that a Republican probably wouldn't. (And Jamie didn't, for example, at least from what was aired.)

Everyone else seems to have at least 1 solid reason to suspect Democratic:

• Black - Bruce, Claire, Josh, Brandon, Lauren
• Culturally liberal-seeming young person from big city - Maddy, Helen, Claire, Sarah, Josh, Matt, Frannie, Carson
• LGBT - Claire, Matthew, Josh, Frannie (?), Carolyn, Yam-Yam
• Canadian - Kane

[The Ex-Factor]

Carolyn's dad is a Democratic state senator. Someone pointed that out to me after she mentioned the phrase 'dark horse' early on in the season:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Wiger

Danny might be Republican, based on the somewhat toxic and terminally online fans who sleuth Instagram/twitter likes and follows:

https://twitter.com/avriIgirlfriend/status/1652072822489882624

FWIW Jaime follows Obama, AOC, Bernie, Biden, Kamala, and Stacey Abrams on twitter but no conservatives.

Agreed that outside of Danny everyone else seems more likely to be Democratic. It was a very educated, diverse, and white collar cast so I'm not surprised.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Jaime also being a yoga instructor gave me the vibe that she would lean left. She also seemed moved by Heidi's story of how her Latina identity impacted her life, even if it ultimately didn't move her vote.

Anyway, moving on from politics, season 44 was carried almost entirely by the Tika Three. I didn't care much for Carson for most of the season, but when he finally showed some vulnerability and acted as a stage mom for Carolyn I kind of softened on him a bit. He would have won the whole thing if he made it to the final three, so Heidi was smart in sending him to the fire-making challenge. But that's really all she had because her game was a complete haphazard mess before that, so I'm sort of glad she didn't get more votes than she did.

I'm more than happy that Yam Yam won, but I have to echo what is seemingly the popular take of Carolyn getting robbed of any votes at all. I know that what we see in the edit creating a narrative out of hundreds of hours of footage is not necessarily going to translate to how the competition actually unfolded, but she probably at least should have got one or two more votes than Heidi. She was probably the most underestimated contestant and obviously won over a significant portion of the audience. Maybe she just didn't present a good enough case at the somewhat refreshingly positive (though also, honestly, kind of dull) final tribal council.

 Her, Carson, and maybe Danny, Matt, Matthew, and Frannie are potential shoo-ins to come back in a future season; but beyond that this season's cast was fairly forgettable. Though I had a bit of a soft spot for Jaime and her paranoid incompetence which I found entertaining. I mean, she played the first successful shot-in-the-dark for no reason whatsoever!...she also looked pretty good on the jury...

But if they were to clone Carolyn 17 times and have her compete with her clones, I think I would be incredibly hyped. I usually try not to be a "stan" for anyone, but she was just so likable and filled with personality. One of the best contestants since Angelina and Christian.

I guess it wasn't as forgettable as season 43 though.

[7,052,770]

As far as the chart goes, I think we might have our first ever clean sweep...

I may have actually been wrong about that. Season 13 (Cook Islands) could have possibly been the first.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

As far as the chart goes, I think we might have our first ever clean sweep. None of the 18 contestants strike me as likely to be Republican. Danny is probably the most likely, but given his age, hometown (NYC), and what seemed like an LGBT-positive attitude, I would lean toward Democratic.

If there is a "surprise" Republican, maybe Jamie would be the most likely? (Though I still would heavily lean to the Democratic side for her.) I wouldn't say the same for Heidi, as I believe Puerto Ricans living in the states are pretty Democratic, and she spoke about representing women and Latinas a lot in a way that a Republican probably wouldn't. (And Jamie didn't, for example, at least from what was aired.)

Everyone else seems to have at least 1 solid reason to suspect Democratic:

• Black - Bruce, Claire, Josh, Brandon, Lauren
• Culturally liberal-seeming young person from big city - Maddy, Helen, Claire, Sarah, Josh, Matt, Frannie, Carson
• LGBT - Claire, Matthew, Josh, Frannie (?), Carolyn, Yam-Yam
• Canadian - Kane

Besides Danny, I'd think that the two others who could be Republicans would be Bruce and Carson, though I'd probably lean against it for both of them.  Bruce is an insurance salesperson, which is a fairly conservative-leaning industry.  And, Carson wore a cross for the entire game, so it's possible that he's a religious conservative (although probably a pretty moderate one).  I also don't think we got much of a sense of where Sarah would lean, although I'd demographically suspect she would be a Democrat.

[Sol]

For the offseason, a question for the forum: who do you think the best player ever is?

[muon2]

Carolyn's dad is a Democratic state senator. Someone pointed that out to me after she mentioned the phrase 'dark horse' early on in the season:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Wiger

Cool. I'm pretty sure that my dad worked with him in the 1980's. My dad was active on the golf advisory board for Ramsey county Parks and Rec which overlaps when Wiger served on that body. Also, one of my college classmates and good friends is a Dem State Rep and works with Sen Wiger. I guess that gives me two paths for three degrees of separation.

[Progressive Pessimist]

My friend let me use his Paramoun Plus password and my first instinct was to resume my binging of past seasons. So far I have re-watched 'Gabon' and 'Pearl Islands.' Both still hold up, but I was very vexed when I learned that 'Gabon' was polarizing to fans. I liked it when I first saw it in high school, and I think I like it better now. Maybe it's not a top ten season, but definitely a top fifteen to me. It's such an enjoyable mess.

'Pearl Islands' meanwhile all came back to me when I watched it again, after twenty years. I didn't remember much of it at first until I got to the really famous moments like Johnny Fairplay's infamous lie (I also forgot what a chauvinist he was), the Outcast twist, Osten quitting, and Rupert stealing the other tribe's shoes, among many others. The only real qualm I had with the season was the Outcast twist, but even then I think it was better executed than Redemption Island or Edge of Extinction because at least the other tribes had a chance to stop anyone from coming back into the game. Beyond that, it definitely holds up as a top five season, and is possibly the first season to really introduce the "modern" 'Survivor' format which we saw up to seasons 40 on. I also loved how it incorporated the pirate theme so well where it was a better gimmick than the casting gimmicks we started getting over the next decade plus.

Next up will be 'Palau.' Another season I barely remember but is apparently also well-regarded as a top season by fans. 

For the offseason, a question for the forum: who do you think the best player ever is?

Tony Vlachos.

[morgankingsley]

So what do you guys all think about the season having all 90 minute episodes going forward? I feel like this will probably either be the best thing the show has to offer, or the nail on the coffin because that extra 20-25 minutes per episode can either really flesh things out more, or just make the season become needlessly bloated for no good reason.

But the funny thing is, while I have never played this show, and almost certainly never will, I have played some Survivor ORGS (online reality games) on discord which is close enough for me to get the general dynamic of what it is like, or as close as I will probably get without actually playing one.

And the truth is, as somebod who won a 44 day game that lastd from June 26 to August 9, 2023, the reality is that 95 percent of the time, the jurors will just vote for the person they either like the best, or hate the least. And they will come up with any random sometimes assbackwards justification to do so. Even though if they just simply said "i just simply liked them the best and was probably always voting for them" I can guarantee 99 percent of the audience would eventually get over it.

Very rarely do jurors actually vote on strategy I have grown to realize. I think that's the issue with Gabler's win. Not the win itself but the fact the jury doesn't have the balls to say "I liked Gabler more than Cassidy and Owen, and was probably going to always vote for him as long as he showed a modicum of self awareness." If they simply would say it, nobody would care after the first 48 hours.

Like with my org, how the jury vote eventually went was this (in the order of jury member) at the Final Tribal Council.

Uman - We were really tight from day 1, and I was the only person he genuinely really respected, and when I just explained his elimination was a concensus boot and I didn't want to put a target on my back, he was a locked in Morgan vote. So far 1-0-0

Toast - I apologized for not talking and connecting with him as much in our days playing together, but I explained that I thought it was because he just didn't like me so I didn't want to fight a losing battle. I then explained that I appreciated his insights of what a gay teen deals with these days when we did talk in tribe chat. In the end, he grew to hate me the least. 2-0-0 Morgan.

Trap - I knew he had a better friendship with Breeze, so I was never getting his vote. So instead of fighting for his vote, I used my answers to his questions to stand my ground and admit I was always voting him out at final 8 because he was the biggest threat all season, and used this time to explain my moved for the other jurors to see. Didn't get his vote but I got his respect. 2 Morgan 1 Breeze 0 Fantasy

Angie - Explained to her that I was always taking her out at final 7 because she was targetting me as the most likely to win, and that scared me. I also gave her credit for helping me find my grove in the first several days of the game, and told her that she was a great woman who had a great future after this was over. I also told her she deserved to be at the finals more than me because she didn't sell her integrity. She was planning to vote Fantasy for being better friends with them but was flattered by my answer, so flipped to 3 Morgan 1 Breeze 0 Fantasy.

Skylar - Absolutely adored me and was probably always going to vote for me, but especially after I explained to her that I only voted her out because I was genuinely scared she was the biggest threat to win, but that I didn't want to do it on a personal level and that I adored her like I would adore a little sister. 4 Morgan 1 Breeze 0 Fantasy

Spencer - I praised his ambition to go into the military and explained that I voted him out at final 5 because I was scared he would be a threat to win because of how he had escaped so many vote offs, and I felt like the jury would respect his ability to slide by, but I thanked him for being a upstanding guy. 5 Morgan 1 Breeze 0 Fantasy

Martel - I apologized to him on lying about not voting him at final 4, but felt like I needed to keep his guard lowered so I would keep my alliance safe for final 3 after I won final immunity, and explained to him that I felt like he was the person who had been most deserving of the win, but that was why he had to be the fallen angel. 6 Morgan 1 Breeze 0 Fantasy.

I also explained to the jury that starting final 8, I only cared about making it to the end because I knew once I was at the end, how to do damage control and actually win. And that people believing my deception was a part of how I got to the end with no elimination votes (meaning Traps's jury vote was the only reason I didn't get a perfect game). I also explained my move with the final 7 elimination, my deliberately wishy washy attitude at final 6, my swing vote position at final 5, and my back against the wall choosing to stay loyal choice at final 4. I then also explained my many challenge wins, such as several immunities and rewards, and then apologized to them all individually for any possible hurt feelings as well as pointing out how each personal probably had hurt feelings.

At the end, the jury realized and respected the fact that I knew and owned up to my game being one big lie, and that ownership as well as them liking me the most made them realize they had literally no choice but to pick me because I was only person out of eighteen who truly played the game.

-Morgan Kingsley
September 27, 2023

[SnowLabrador]

I agree with you that the extra time will either revitalize the show or make it drag even further. Unfortunately, I think it's the latter. Just look at Probst having Rick Devens co-host the podcast.

[Progressive Pessimist]

It's early, but I enjoyed that premiere a lot. The 90 minute run time seems to be allowing for some more camp interaction time which has been neglected in recent seasons in favor of twists and advantages. That Lulu tribe (whose name is even laughable) have the makings of being the next Luzon or Matsing. But the three "standout" players (Brandon, Emily, Hannah) from it do remind me of what I would be like if I were on the show. But I like to think I have a better sense of self-awareness and wouldn't be on the show in the first place. This tribe is just a sad mess, but in an entertaining way. I look forward to seeing more. This is the kind of stuff I watch the show for.

As for the other tribes, they are standing out less so far, for obvious reasons but Sifu looks like he is going to be entertaining as a half-assed Tony Vlachos and Kendra on the blue team got on my nerves even more than Emily. I have a real pet peeve of people who judge others based on the arbitrary, nebulous parameters of their zodiac sign.

In other news, I've still been re-watching early seasons of the show on Paramount+. Since I last posted I binged a ton, and I'll try to keep my thoughts as brief as possible...by my standards:

-Palau: I remembered so little of this season, and I'm surprised because the entire extinction of Ulong was an incredibly compelling and unique event to see unfold. Also Tom is a huge badass and reminded me of a younger, fit Joe Biden. I did feel ripped off though because for whatever reason Paramount+ cut out the part in the first episode where Wanda is singing on the boat-ride to the shore and annoying everybody. I remembered that, but was denied it in the rewatch for reasons I can't understand. I thought I was going crazy until I found that clip later on Youtube.

Australia: The only season I never saw at all. It was definitely interesting to watch since I was already familiar with half the cast since so many came back in future seasons (and some being relevant in the years after in other ways-Elisabeth and Nick Brown running for Washington state Attorney General). Though with that also came the shadow of Mike Skupin who I previously only knew from the 'Philippines' season. I felt bad for the whole fire incident but it was uncomfortable to see him in every other respect knowing what we know now, especially the "where are they now" special where he is giving motivational speeches to young students...yikes! Also he killed a pig-f*** him! Jerri also interested me because I never found her in the other two seasons she was on to be much of a villain. But I definitely saw it in this season. That said, she really doesn't deserve that reputation in the two later seasons she shows up in.

But even though it's probably one of the more famous seasons I found it kind of dull post-merge. It became more about how miserable the players were than them interacting or navigating the competition. Part of that might have to do with this season being the only one to feature 42 days for reasons I'm not entirely sure about.

The reunion show with Bryant Gumble was kind of awkward to watch, mostly for Gumble questioning why Amber and Elisabeth didn't wear more flattering attire for the audience to gawk at them over.

Marquesas: I also remembered very little about this season other than the purple rock moment, and I was expecting a bland season from what I've always heard about it, but I enjoyed it a lot. Sean definitely stood out and I'm disappointed he never competed again. The challenges were kind of weak though (really? Flying kites?) because apparently this season was rushed together after shooting in the Middle East post-9/11 fell through for obvious reasons.

Vecepia really bugged me though, there was nothing to her but her piousness. Now, I'm an atheist and I'm used to there being religious people on the show, yet I cannot think of anything else that made her interesting. She also used her faith to justify potentially immoral or unethical actions. I think she even said something like "as long as I pray for forgiveness, it's fine." I would have preferred for Neleh to win-she at least made a bold move to turn on her alliance and form a new majority. It wasn't the best move as far as bitter jury sentiment goes, but it was more than Vecepia did. I guess it was a positive for her to be the first person of color to win the game, and in some ways she did create the under the radar strategy.

This reunion was really hard to watch though. Rosie O'Donnell sang a terrible parody song and seemed to not know enough about the show to ask interesting questions.

Thailand: This season was simultaneously better and worse than I remember. It started out and continued on a really sour note after the Ghandia-Ted situation and the way it was handled. It kind of ruined the season-I'm not going to lie. However, Brian's near-sociopathic style of play was entertaining to watch. Robb and Shii-Ann were fun inclusions in the cast too. And I wouldn't call the final four "the most unlikable ever" as Jeff once said. Helen was okay and Jane was amusing and kind of sweet. Still one of the worst seasons overall, but not nearly as bad as I recalled it being. I was able to appreciate certain things about it more (the attack zone!) while also being more bothered by "grindgate."

Amazon: All I remembered about this season was Jenna and Heidi stripping for peanut butter. That fit into a theme of this season being probably the most sexually tense one ever upon rewatch. That as driven by the "cute girl alliance" and Rob Cesternino's presence were all that really kept me interested in this season though. Just about everything else was forgettable. Oh, the campsite being burned down was pretty special and the weird controversy with the granola bar that has seemingly never been solved. And how can I forget to mention Jeff jetskiing to the reunion, which is one of the funniest moments in the show's entire history.

All-Stars: I don't really get the hate for this season outside of the production yet again bungling a sex-related mishap. That was settled fairly early in the season and didn't get dragged out like the Ghandia-Ted one at least. And other than Cesternino and Rudy, I don't think the most entertaining players were necessarily eliminated too early. It was also interesting to watch the Rob-Amber power couple obliterate the competition and also fall in love in the process. I think Rob owes Lex more than he realizes because he probably wouldn't even be married to the lovely Amber if Lex didn't keep her in the game for him. That one move changed both of their lives, potentially.  It still isn't the best all-returnee season, but I enjoyed it about as much as I remember. I guess I would have preferred someone in place of Jenna M. since she quit and someone more interesting than Alicia if I were to redo the cast. Otherwise it was a pretty good roster.

That reunion show is among the worst ever though. I agree with that. Just plain unpleasant to watch where bitter sentiment and interpersonal conflict seemed to carry over.

Guatemala: This season was probably the biggest surprise. I literally remembered nothing but Bobby Jon and Stephenie coming back only to find this season to now be the season that improved the most on rewatch. There were some pretty fun and interesting competitors this season like Brian (whose interactions with the more religious members of his tribe made me identify with him), Cindy, Gary, Lydia, Jamie (just a complete heel), Judd, and Rafe-why were none of them ever brought back? It also was a surprisingly terrible environment to participate in from the 11 mile hike to the howler monkeys to the crocodile infested bodies of water. Although simultaneously they made great use of the Mayan pyramids and Meso-American theme which kind of made up for all that. It was also the introduction of the hiddenn immunity idol which ended up not being nearly as ubiquitous as it would become. This ended up being a very underrated season to me. How can anyone not appreciate them eating the sacrificial chicken?

Last one, I swear...for now, Samoa: I remembered this as a frustrating season since I thought Russell deserved to win, and I still believe that, but I understand Natalie's win better now since I was anticipating it rather than being caught by surprise. Erik seemed to have done a lot to convince the rest of the jurors to vote for her. But obviously this was Russell's season in every other way, and he is just such an entertaining character. I know that he is polarizing, but I'm a fan of his and he did indeed revolutionize the way the game is played, for better and worse. He may steal the season but there were still other players who I managed to remember and enjoy watching too particularly Laura and Shambo or Ben (the real villain of the season) and Jaison's conflict. I guess it also helped that it also probably has one of the prettiest female casts ever (Kelly, Laura, Marisa, Monica, Natalie). Plenty of handsome gentlemen on the other hand too...even if they're among the most boring inclusions like Brett, John, and Mick. I enjoyed it a bit more than I did the first time, perhaps because I was able to know who was going to win and better understand why in knowing.

Okay, I'm done! Sorry, I don't have many places where I get to talk about this show. The next one I plan on watching is 'Vanuatu,' another season I remember little of other than the eventual winner and Eliza Orlins. I hear it's a lesser season, but we'll see about that, I've been surprised at how some of my opinions seem to contrast with the conventional wisdom I've seen.

[Sol]

I understand why narratively it's unsatisfying, but you can't play the way that Russell did and win the game, ever. Juries vote for who they like and respect the most and his social game meant that he was certain to lose. I also think it's a little peculiar that people are sore about Russell never winning despite the glaring flaws in his social game, but aren't embittered about Amanda Kimmel never winning, despite the fact that she came far closer in Micronesia and had the same timing-based disadvantages as Russell. She's certainly miles ahead of him in skill and would have had a good shot of making it to the end without a heroes pagonging in HvV too.

[SnowLabrador]

The part about pyramid conspiracies had me cracking up.

[Progressive Pessimist]

The part about pyramid conspiracies had me cracking up.

Yeah, Emily is annoying so far but I sympathized with her there.