Survivor megathread

[brucejoel99]

Someone who got voted out shouldn't win. Terrible outcome.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

I started a thread for Edge of Extinction, so I figured I'd do it again in advance of tomorrow's premiere of the 39th edition of the greatest game of social politics there is!

[morgankingsley]

I came here to reply that while I have not seen survivor since the season Cochran won a unanimous victory, but I like and agree with your take on it being the best game of social politics. It is really interesting

[MasterJedi]

Wife and I are ready for it tonight!

[SnowLabrador]

Loved the premiere.

[7,052,770]

Just caught up on this. Ugh.

[The Ex-Factor]

Awful and horrible season, we all know why. Let's all pretend it never happened and move on to season 40.

[morgankingsley]

Awful and horrible season, we all know why. Let's all pretend it never happened and move on to season 40.

You should rank all the seasons

[7,052,770]

Awful and horrible season, we all know why. Let's all pretend it never happened and move on to season 40.

You should rank all the seasons

That's going to be a bit dicey. Think back to seasons 5 and 8, which had equal or worse incidents to the one from this year. Should we adjust and also tank those seasons? And what about all the rampant creepiness and homophobia from the early seasons, including some from people who are still legendary fan favorites?

[morgankingsley]

Awful and horrible season, we all know why. Let's all pretend it never happened and move on to season 40.

You should rank all the seasons

That's going to be a bit dicey. Think back to seasons 5 and 8, which had equal or worse incidents to the one from this year. Should we adjust and also tank those seasons? And what about all the rampant creepiness and homophobia from the early seasons, including some from people who are still legendary fan favorites?

Yeah i guess it might be hard to give a fair evaluation

[Progressive Pessimist]

Awful and horrible season, we all know why. Let's all pretend it never happened and move on to season 40.

On the contrary, I think it was an extremely entertaining season even in spite of its gimmick not really amounting to much, but the elephant in the room that you are referring does indeed ruin it quite a bit.

Next season looks promising though. I usually dislike when they rely on previous players to sell a season, but for the show's 40th season consisting entirely of previous winners, it makes sense here. I'm looking forward to it.

[7,052,770]

Off the top of my head

Great seasons: 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 20, 28
Good seasons: 6, 9, 10, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 29, 30, 33, 37
Meh seasons: 11, 12, 17, 22, 25, 27, 31, 32, 34, 36, 38
Bad seasons: 5, 8, 21, 23, 24, 26, 35, 39

[The Ex-Factor]

This is my ranking. Objectively this last season is probably 'better', but just on a visceral level it left me feeling gross. Everything post-merge is pretty much tainted to me by the merge episode.

https://pastebin.com/evjddD0g

I'm really not a fan of modern Survivor. Somewhere between 31 and 33 the show started going off the rails in terms of the advantages, idols, and questionable twists. I thought 25-30, 32 had the right balance of unpredictability to prevent Pagongings while still keeping the game understandable. Nowadays the show is borderline incomprehrensible.

[morgankingsley]

Thanks for both of you taking the time to do compile a list of the seasons. Easily the biggest task I ever asked of a atlas member. From what I am reading, it seems that I did not miss too much from stopping at Camoran

[7,052,770]

Several factors making recent seasons worse:

• The firemaking at final 4 challenge is awful. It makes Survivor a totally different game at the very end. It single-handedly ruined H/H/H since they didn't even tell the contestants about it until right beforehand. I would been fine with Ben getting himself into the final 3 and then winning, but firemaking surprise makes him the second worst winner of alltime IMO. Even in the later seasons where the contestants knew ahead of time, it's silly -- does anyone actually like it?
• Chris getting voted off on day 8, coming back into the game on day 36 and then winning on day 39 was also a joke. And he did play well in his 3 days back in the game, but it probably didn't mean much - he spent weeks hanging out with the jury on the Edge of Extinction, so of course they were inclined to vote for him. I can't believe they're actually bringing this back for Winners at War.

• Honestly I wouldn't mind this if it were pre-merge only. The Outcasts twist in Pearl Islands was great. Had Lil won season 7, or Rick Devens won in season 38, I would have been fine with it since they was only out for a few days. But no one should be able to step back in at the very end at be able to win. Season 23 would probably be the worst of all-time had Ozzy not gotten upset in the final immunity challenge and therefore won after getting voted out twice. (Thank God they didn't have the firemaking f4 back then or he probably would've anyway!)

• Way, way too many immunity idols these days. I didn't mind having one hidden at Exile Island, and I have thought the ones hidden at challenges to be kinda clever, but it just gets kinda ridiculous when they rehide a new one every time one is played. It's way too luck-based to just happen to find one. Russell finding 2 without any clues back in season 19 should have clued in the producers to this, but I think they learned the opposite lesson.
• And idols should be the extent of it. No more "steal a vote," "block an idol," "extra votes," etc. If you don't want to get voted off, convince people not to vote you off. I don't like all these lucky random elements getting thrown into it.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

I didn't like this season both because it was ugly but also because there was no one I truly loved in the cast.

Here would me my tiers (there are a few early seasons I haven't watched):

Great: 7, 15, 16, 18, 20, 28, 31, 37 (I always refer to 15-20 as the Golden Age)
Good: 10, 12, 17, 19, 25, 27, 33, 38 (hot take on the last one although I didn't like the ending)
OK: 3, 11, 13, 26, 29, 30, 32, 35
Bad: 5, 21, 22, 23, 24, 34, 36, 39

[morgankingsley]

• Chris getting voted off on day 8, coming back into the game on day 36 and then winning on day 39 was also a joke.
  

When i read this I seriously thought you were making a joke, until I looked it up. wtf

[The Ex-Factor]

Who wins Survivor: The Road to the White House?

 http://brantsteele.net/survivor/caramoan/r.php?c=ii57TiHF

[Santander]

This is still a thing?

[morgankingsley]

This is still a thing?

Somehow yes

[Progressive Pessimist]

Several factors making recent seasons worse:

• The firemaking at final 4 challenge is awful. It makes Survivor a totally different game at the very end. It single-handedly ruined H/H/H since they didn't even tell the contestants about it until right beforehand. I would been fine with Ben getting himself into the final 3 and then winning, but firemaking surprise makes him the second worst winner of alltime IMO. Even in the later seasons where the contestants knew ahead of time, it's silly -- does anyone actually like it?
• Chris getting voted off on day 8, coming back into the game on day 36 and then winning on day 39 was also a joke. And he did play well in his 3 days back in the game, but it probably didn't mean much - he spent weeks hanging out with the jury on the Edge of Extinction, so of course they were inclined to vote for him. I can't believe they're actually bringing this back for Winners at War.

• Honestly I wouldn't mind this if it were pre-merge only. The Outcasts twist in Pearl Islands was great. Had Lil won season 7, or Rick Devens won in season 38, I would have been fine with it since they was only out for a few days. But no one should be able to step back in at the very end at be able to win. Season 23 would probably be the worst of all-time had Ozzy not gotten upset in the final immunity challenge and therefore won after getting voted out twice. (Thank God they didn't have the firemaking f4 back then or he probably would've anyway!)

• Way, way too many immunity idols these days. I didn't mind having one hidden at Exile Island, and I have thought the ones hidden at challenges to be kinda clever, but it just gets kinda ridiculous when they rehide a new one every time one is played. It's way too luck-based to just happen to find one. Russell finding 2 without any clues back in season 19 should have clued in the producers to this, but I think they learned the opposite lesson.
• And idols should be the extent of it. No more "steal a vote," "block an idol," "extra votes," etc. If you don't want to get voted off, convince people not to vote you off. I don't like all these lucky random elements getting thrown into it.

I agree with all of that, especially the fire-making part. I remember when that was introduced, it seemed like a way to give Ben a lifeline in that season and help him win, because he was going to be voted out otherwise. It really upended the game in a big way that didn't seem fair as a surprise.

I also wish they would just go back to having a final two, they still do that sometimes, but the third person in the finale so rarely ever even gets votes, that I don't see the purpose of keeping it most of the time.

That also goes for a lot of the arbitrary classifications of the contestants as we've seen in some recent seasons. They just get tribe-swapped after nine or so days anyway, so what's the point? To make some sort of statement as to what kind of demographic is superior?

I would love to see a season that gets rid of all the gimmicks and returns to its basic roots. Hell that could even be the gimmick: 'Survivor: Back to Basics!' No hidden immunity idols!

[morgankingsley]

Several factors making recent seasons worse:

• The firemaking at final 4 challenge is awful. It makes Survivor a totally different game at the very end. It single-handedly ruined H/H/H since they didn't even tell the contestants about it until right beforehand. I would been fine with Ben getting himself into the final 3 and then winning, but firemaking surprise makes him the second worst winner of alltime IMO. Even in the later seasons where the contestants knew ahead of time, it's silly -- does anyone actually like it?
• Chris getting voted off on day 8, coming back into the game on day 36 and then winning on day 39 was also a joke. And he did play well in his 3 days back in the game, but it probably didn't mean much - he spent weeks hanging out with the jury on the Edge of Extinction, so of course they were inclined to vote for him. I can't believe they're actually bringing this back for Winners at War.

• Honestly I wouldn't mind this if it were pre-merge only. The Outcasts twist in Pearl Islands was great. Had Lil won season 7, or Rick Devens won in season 38, I would have been fine with it since they was only out for a few days. But no one should be able to step back in at the very end at be able to win. Season 23 would probably be the worst of all-time had Ozzy not gotten upset in the final immunity challenge and therefore won after getting voted out twice. (Thank God they didn't have the firemaking f4 back then or he probably would've anyway!)

• Way, way too many immunity idols these days. I didn't mind having one hidden at Exile Island, and I have thought the ones hidden at challenges to be kinda clever, but it just gets kinda ridiculous when they rehide a new one every time one is played. It's way too luck-based to just happen to find one. Russell finding 2 without any clues back in season 19 should have clued in the producers to this, but I think they learned the opposite lesson.
• And idols should be the extent of it. No more "steal a vote," "block an idol," "extra votes," etc. If you don't want to get voted off, convince people not to vote you off. I don't like all these lucky random elements getting thrown into it.

I agree with all of that, especially the fire-making part. I remember when that was introduced, it seemed like a way to give Ben a lifeline in that season and help him win, because he was going to be voted out otherwise. It really upended the game in a big way that didn't seem fair as a surprise.

I also wish they would just go back to having a final two, they still do that sometimes, but the third person in the finale so rarely ever even gets votes, that I don't see the purpose of keeping it most of the time.

That also goes for a lot of the arbitrary classifications of the contestants as we've seen in some recent seasons. They just get tribe-swapped after nine or so days anyway, so what's the point? To make some sort of statement as to what kind of demographic is superior?

I would love to see a season that gets rid of all the gimmicks and returns to its basic roots. Hell that could even be the gimmick: 'Survivor: Back to Basics!' No hidden immunity idols!

when did they stop with the final two on a regular basis

[7,052,770]

Several factors making recent seasons worse:

• The firemaking at final 4 challenge is awful. It makes Survivor a totally different game at the very end. It single-handedly ruined H/H/H since they didn't even tell the contestants about it until right beforehand. I would been fine with Ben getting himself into the final 3 and then winning, but firemaking surprise makes him the second worst winner of alltime IMO. Even in the later seasons where the contestants knew ahead of time, it's silly -- does anyone actually like it?
• Chris getting voted off on day 8, coming back into the game on day 36 and then winning on day 39 was also a joke. And he did play well in his 3 days back in the game, but it probably didn't mean much - he spent weeks hanging out with the jury on the Edge of Extinction, so of course they were inclined to vote for him. I can't believe they're actually bringing this back for Winners at War.

• Honestly I wouldn't mind this if it were pre-merge only. The Outcasts twist in Pearl Islands was great. Had Lil won season 7, or Rick Devens won in season 38, I would have been fine with it since they was only out for a few days. But no one should be able to step back in at the very end at be able to win. Season 23 would probably be the worst of all-time had Ozzy not gotten upset in the final immunity challenge and therefore won after getting voted out twice. (Thank God they didn't have the firemaking f4 back then or he probably would've anyway!)

• Way, way too many immunity idols these days. I didn't mind having one hidden at Exile Island, and I have thought the ones hidden at challenges to be kinda clever, but it just gets kinda ridiculous when they rehide a new one every time one is played. It's way too luck-based to just happen to find one. Russell finding 2 without any clues back in season 19 should have clued in the producers to this, but I think they learned the opposite lesson.
• And idols should be the extent of it. No more "steal a vote," "block an idol," "extra votes," etc. If you don't want to get voted off, convince people not to vote you off. I don't like all these lucky random elements getting thrown into it.

I agree with all of that, especially the fire-making part. I remember when that was introduced, it seemed like a way to give Ben a lifeline in that season and help him win, because he was going to be voted out otherwise. It really upended the game in a big way that didn't seem fair as a surprise.

I also wish they would just go back to having a final two, they still do that sometimes, but the third person in the finale so rarely ever even gets votes, that I don't see the purpose of keeping it most of the time.

That also goes for a lot of the arbitrary classifications of the contestants as we've seen in some recent seasons. They just get tribe-swapped after nine or so days anyway, so what's the point? To make some sort of statement as to what kind of demographic is superior?

I would love to see a season that gets rid of all the gimmicks and returns to its basic roots. Hell that could even be the gimmick: 'Survivor: Back to Basics!' No hidden immunity idols!

when did they stop with the final two on a regular basis

Season 13 was the first to have a final 3, although 16 and 28 had a final 2 as a surprise twist, which was also lame. It should be declared ahead of time.

[100% pro-life no matter what]

Several factors making recent seasons worse:

• The firemaking at final 4 challenge is awful. It makes Survivor a totally different game at the very end. It single-handedly ruined H/H/H since they didn't even tell the contestants about it until right beforehand. I would been fine with Ben getting himself into the final 3 and then winning, but firemaking surprise makes him the second worst winner of alltime IMO. Even in the later seasons where the contestants knew ahead of time, it's silly -- does anyone actually like it?
• Chris getting voted off on day 8, coming back into the game on day 36 and then winning on day 39 was also a joke. And he did play well in his 3 days back in the game, but it probably didn't mean much - he spent weeks hanging out with the jury on the Edge of Extinction, so of course they were inclined to vote for him. I can't believe they're actually bringing this back for Winners at War.

• Honestly I wouldn't mind this if it were pre-merge only. The Outcasts twist in Pearl Islands was great. Had Lil won season 7, or Rick Devens won in season 38, I would have been fine with it since they was only out for a few days. But no one should be able to step back in at the very end at be able to win. Season 23 would probably be the worst of all-time had Ozzy not gotten upset in the final immunity challenge and therefore won after getting voted out twice. (Thank God they didn't have the firemaking f4 back then or he probably would've anyway!)

• Way, way too many immunity idols these days. I didn't mind having one hidden at Exile Island, and I have thought the ones hidden at challenges to be kinda clever, but it just gets kinda ridiculous when they rehide a new one every time one is played. It's way too luck-based to just happen to find one. Russell finding 2 without any clues back in season 19 should have clued in the producers to this, but I think they learned the opposite lesson.
• And idols should be the extent of it. No more "steal a vote," "block an idol," "extra votes," etc. If you don't want to get voted off, convince people not to vote you off. I don't like all these lucky random elements getting thrown into it.

I agree with all of that, especially the fire-making part. I remember when that was introduced, it seemed like a way to give Ben a lifeline in that season and help him win, because he was going to be voted out otherwise. It really upended the game in a big way that didn't seem fair as a surprise.

I also wish they would just go back to having a final two, they still do that sometimes, but the third person in the finale so rarely ever even gets votes, that I don't see the purpose of keeping it most of the time.

That also goes for a lot of the arbitrary classifications of the contestants as we've seen in some recent seasons. They just get tribe-swapped after nine or so days anyway, so what's the point? To make some sort of statement as to what kind of demographic is superior?

I would love to see a season that gets rid of all the gimmicks and returns to its basic roots. Hell that could even be the gimmick: 'Survivor: Back to Basics!' No hidden immunity idols!

when did they stop with the final two on a regular basis

Season 13 was the first to have a final 3, although 16 and 28 had a final 2 as a surprise twist, which was also lame. It should be declared ahead of time.

18 also had a Final 2, which seemed to be expected by most during the season.  Now, season 18 (Tocantins), was kind of a "back to the basics" sort of season with a 16 person cast and no tribe swaps (plus no idols that impacted the game).

This is still a thing?

Somehow yes

Season 40 is going to be 20 former winners all returning, so if you have any interest, I'd check it out this spring!

[100% pro-life no matter what]

The season that Survivor fans have talked about for over a decade is finally here!  Tomorrow night, we'll begin to watch 20 former winners try to claim another title (and $2 million this time).

The winners range from Ethan, who won season 3 (Africa) in 2001, to Nick, who won season 37 (David vs. Goliath) in 2018.  Sandra is the only two-time winner coming into the season, having won both season 7 (Pearl Islands) and season 20 (Heroes vs. Villains).

The top tier of threats on the island would have to be considered Sandra, Boston Rob, Parvati, and Tony, but the other players will likely recognize their threat level and want to get them out.  I might add Kim to that list too since many consider her game in One World to have been the best single game ever, but she's only played once and isn't as big of a name.

Conversely, the big threats might want to try to stick together to take out former winners that are being overlooked.

I'm just excited to see how this goes down.  Over 40 seasons, we've had a handful of all-star seasons.  The last full returnee season (Game Changers in 2017) is regarded as a disappointment, so just a regular returnee season might not have gotten fans so excited.  This is the one theme that will stick out like all-stars did for All Stars in 2004 or Heroes vs. Villains in 2010.

As Survivor is currently CBS's highest-rated non-news/sports show, obviously there will be more seasons.  And, I won't complain to have more versions of this game to watch, but I would almost be OK if this were the final season.  I've heard speculation about maybe doing "Legends" for season 50 if Jeff Probst is ready to move on in 5 years, but that's probably just fan speak.