Survivor megathread

[Progressive Pessimist]

I love Gabon purely because it was one of the only seasons I watched live (China through maybe Kaoh Rong) where my favorite (aka the nerd) won.

Gabon is very underrated to me.

Actually speaking of which, and with this thread becoming relevant again with season 41 finally premiering next week, I am pretty close to finishing my revisit of the 'Survivor' seasons available on Amazon. I just have a few episodes of 'Cagyan' left that I'm rewatching. I didn't get to all of them, but definitely did watch all of the seasons that I have nostalgia for. And this led me to want to create a seasons ranking in tier list form like Harry did a few pages back. Tell me what you think...if you care:

Top Tier-Borneo, Micronesia, Heroes Vs. Villains.

High Tier-Pearl Islands, All-Stars, Palau, Panama, China, Philippines, Caramoan, Blood Vs. Water, Cagayan.

Upper Mid Tier-Africa, Amazon, Cook Islands, Gabon, Samoa, San Juan Del Sur, Cambodia, Millennials Vs. Gen X, Game Changers, Ghost Island, David Vs. Goliath, Winners At War.

Lower Mid Tier-Marquesas, Guatemala, Fiji, Tocantins, Kaoh Rong, Heroes Vs. Healers Vs. Hustlers, Edge of Extinction.

Low Tier-Vanuatu, Redemption Island, South Pacific.

Bottom Tier-Thailand, Nicaragua, One World, Worlds Apart, Island of the Idols.

*I still haven't seen Australia*

I like your list generally. One thing that I apparently stand alone in is that I kinda like Worlds Apart. I think most people on Reddit hate it too, but I just didn't hate the cast as much as a lot of people did.

Thanks for your feedback!

Unless I rewatched them recently, a lot of seasons on this list are based on what I remember, so I was a bit foggy on some. But not Worlds Apart. If the Dan-Rodney-Will alliance hadn't been so prominent throughout the season I might have liked it more, but they were probably the least likable alliance in 'Survivor' history. All three of them were just completely terrible, cruel people in ways that seemed to go beyond just how they played their game. They really made it an unpleasant experience. I liked Mike okay, and they made his win all that sweeter, but I also think I only liked him because he ended up being that alliance's underdog opponent. Though he was also a very predictable winner. I knew he would win if he made it to the end. Thankfully he did, because the season would have been even worse if Will won. I would have been neutral on Carolyn winning.

[Boobs]

Actually, 'Survivor' is a guilty pleasure of mine still. I'm looking forward to the new season but I don't really understand this season's gimmick. Honestly, a lot of their gimmicks, especially the ones where they arbitrarily classify people, seem to be falling short of engrossing me lately.

Gimmicks are really what has made Survivor subpar. In my opinion, it's lost its charm – the survival aspect – that really defined the early seasons. My opinion has always been that there's no need for season gimmicks beyond like, men vs women or fans vs favorites, although Heroes vs Villains is great too.

I'd like to see the producers try to do a season like in the old days, less starting supplies, more difficult challenges, maybe an idol or exile island or something, really try to get that magic back. Doubt it'll happen though.


Also a personal qualm of mine is that they stopped recording a unique Ancient Voices for each season.

I still agree with my take from two years ago.

Redemption Island (which is a terrible concept BTW) was the last season I watched live - the producers could've cut Boston Rob a check and not made the season and it would've had the same effect. I also have an extreme dislike of Russell and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I streamed the later seasons up to Game Changers a few years ago and they've had very impact on me. The series has become far too strategic and everything, all the competitors are too mean & athletic, etc... The "charm" is gone! One of the best thing about early Survivor is how campy it was.

Keeping it in Fiji is boring AF. And the gimmicks they try to use to make up for that just make it worse.

Anyway, here are my rankings of the seasons (up to HvV, because nothing after it remotely holds a candle. I'd watch Fiji or even, gasp, Thailand, over everything except like Philippines.)

Awesome: Pearl Islands, Vanuatu, Palau, FvF, HvV
Great: Africa, Amazon, Guatemala, Panama, China, Gabon
Good: Borneo, Marquesas, Cook Islands
Watchable: Australia, Tocantins
Prefer not to watch: Thailand, All Stars, Fiji, Samoa

[7,052,770]

Thanks for your feedback!

Unless I rewatched them recently, a lot of seasons on this list are based on what I remember, so I was a bit foggy on some. But not Worlds Apart. If the Dan-Rodney-Will alliance hadn't been so prominent throughout the season I might have liked it more, but they were probably the least likable alliance in 'Survivor' history. All three of them were just completely terrible, cruel people in ways that seemed to go beyond just how they played their game. They really made it an unpleasant experience. I liked Mike okay, and they made his win all that sweeter, but I also think I only liked him because he ended up being that alliance's underdog opponent. Though he was also a very predictable winner. I knew he would win if he made it to the end. Thankfully he did, because the season would have been even worse if Will won. I would have been neutral on Carolyn winning.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Dan (that's S30 Dan, not S39 Dan!) is not really a terrible, cruel person, just a misunderstood doofus. I always kinda suspected it, but when I read this long summary from the Funny 115, I was convinced.

http://funny115.com/v3_3/2.htm

[Progressive Pessimist]

Thanks for your feedback!

Unless I rewatched them recently, a lot of seasons on this list are based on what I remember, so I was a bit foggy on some. But not Worlds Apart. If the Dan-Rodney-Will alliance hadn't been so prominent throughout the season I might have liked it more, but they were probably the least likable alliance in 'Survivor' history. All three of them were just completely terrible, cruel people in ways that seemed to go beyond just how they played their game. They really made it an unpleasant experience. I liked Mike okay, and they made his win all that sweeter, but I also think I only liked him because he ended up being that alliance's underdog opponent. Though he was also a very predictable winner. I knew he would win if he made it to the end. Thankfully he did, because the season would have been even worse if Will won. I would have been neutral on Carolyn winning.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Dan (that's S30 Dan, not S39 Dan!) is not really a terrible, cruel person, just a misunderstood doofus. I always kinda suspected it, but when I read this long summary from the Funny 115, I was convinced.

http://funny115.com/v3_3/2.htm

I guess so. It's probably unfair to judge him based on the show. But I just did not care for him. Though I do feel confident in saying that players like Rodney, Will, Colton, and Brandon Hantz are all people whose television personas translate to real-life. They're too shameless about it. 

[Sol]

Funny115 sucks, y'all. Mario Lanza is a good writer and some of it is enjoyable but he has kind of an obnoxious gatekeepy attitude and some of his takes--like Brad Culpeper as a maligned hero--are pretty bad.

[7,052,770]

Funny115 sucks, y'all. Mario Lanza is a good writer and some of it is enjoyable but he has kind of an obnoxious gatekeepy attitude and some of his takes--like Brad Culpeper as a maligned hero--are pretty bad.

I don't know if he's a "hero" but I liked Brad in both of his appearances and was disappointed he didn't make the cut on S31.

[tmthforu94]

Excited for the new season to start on Wednesday! Interesting to see how it is changed with the shortened schedule.

[SnowLabrador]

Excited for the new season to start on Wednesday! Interesting to see how it is changed with the shortened schedule.

I'm thrilled even with the shortened game.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Excited for the new season to start on Wednesday! Interesting to see how it is changed with the shortened schedule.

I'm thrilled even with the shortened game.

The shortened schedule at least adds something, and maybe that means we've subverted having another, worse, gimmick in its place.

[Thunder98 🇮🇱 🤝 🇵🇸]

Probst's says that the 26 day thing might be here to here to stay. Hopefully that's not the case.

https://ew.com/tv/survivor-41-jeff-probst-26-day-game-instead-of-39/

[SnowLabrador]

Probst's says that the 26 day thing might be here to here to stay. Hopefully that's not the case.

https://ew.com/tv/survivor-41-jeff-probst-26-day-game-instead-of-39/

It's here to stay. Once a company starts realizing they can spend less money, they usually won't go back to spending more money. CBS exists to make a profit, which is why I propose nationalizing the TV network.

[Sol]

The common denominator with all the tinkering the show has done in recent years is that it's usually done with the intent to advantage certain kinds of players--namely dominant alpha-types. The Final four firemaking twist (which also removes a round where idols wouldn't work), the new jury format, more and more idols and advantages, extinction island, etc. etc. all benefit players who are usually considered "threats." (Heck, you could even claim the same thing about the final 3, since it was clearly an effort to avoid the "robbed g.oddess" phenomenon.)

It's pretty clear that Probst really dislikes winners who have a less flashy skillset and who get where they are more through flying under the radar rather than through immunity wins or idol plays.

I don't think you can get rid of UTR winners entirely--I stopped watching Island of the Idols for obvious reasons midway through but it's my understanding that Tommy got to the end largely on that sort of social skillset--but you can reduce their prevalence through these changes, which functionally mean that players have much less room to maneuver against threats. I think about someone like Victoria Baamonde, who in many respects controlled much of the EOE postmerge game but who wasn't able to outmaneuver Rick's preponderance of idols AND Chris returning from the edge.

In this light, the shorter season works in basically the same way. The quicker pace means that there simply won't be enough time for people to identify the threats and really calibrate their moves against them--it's as if Vanuatu would have ended before Chris had time to overthrow Ami's power structure.

There's been a lot of discourse in recent years about the fact that Survivor hasn't had a female winner in six seasons. Although some of that is probably down to luck, I think it's fair to say that the huge number of idols (which women are less likely to find, likely related to gendered divisions of labor) strongly disadvantages women players. It's not a coincidence that number of female and male winners were basically balanced pre-Cambodia or so--and then after Cambodia there's basically only been 1.*

There's also the fact that under-the-radar strategies are much more common among women players, for reasons which likely relate to gender roles (i.e. tribes are more likely to boot a woman who asserts herself than a man, and a good player will know that and work behind the scenes instead). That's certainly not true of all women players or even most women players, but in the aggregate it's true.

Basically, I'm concerned that this change will continue to advantage certain kinds of players over others. I don't want Ozzy or Ben to win every season, but these kinds of changes make that more and more likely to be the case.

*32 was filmed before 31.

[SnowLabrador]

That was a great premiere. But I'm not going to spoil it, so instead I'll tell the story of the first time my mother watched the show, one she's told me.

The year was 2000, and a certain Atlas user was six weeks old and in the hospital for meningitis, and my mother watched it to distract herself from what was happening to me. She didn't pick it up again for about fifteen years. I'm 21 now and it's hard to believe I was that sick when I was that small. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Incredible energy coming off the premiere. Everything I love about Survivor. Stupid challenge mistakes, made-up stories, inexplicable votes, people running around at tribal.

[7,052,770]

Loved the premiere. Wow. The prisoner's dilemma and the water haul were both great. Although I think the triangle thing was probably doable if you send away half the tribe and just let the people who like puzzles work it out.

Not a huge fan of the 1/6 dice thing, but maybe it will be ok.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

Also, Genie must be a fantastic social player, because it looks like she wasn't on the chopping block at all. And the fact that she threw a vote on Ricard in case Sara rolled the dice is some next-level thinking. As of right now, I think I might ... put her down as an early winner pick, along with Xander. {Now watch them both leave next episode.}

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Loved the premiere. Wow. The prisoner's dilemma and the water haul were both great. Although I think the triangle thing was probably doable if you send away half the tribe and just let the people who like puzzles work it out.

Not a huge fan of the 1/6 dice thing, but maybe it will be ok.

Spoiler alert! Click Show to show the content.

Show

Also, Genie must be a fantastic social player, because it looks like she wasn't on the chopping block at all. And the fact that she threw a vote on Ricard in case Sara rolled the dice is some next-level thinking. As of right now, I think I might ... put her down as an early winner pick, along with Xander. {Now watch them both leave next episode.}

Same thoughts on the second person you mentioned in the spoiler area, but man that first thought is a galaxy brain take. Am I just not on the strategic level necessary to understand the Moves being Made?

[100% pro-life no matter what]

OK, I come to expect a certain amount of bias in major TV, but tonight was really extreme.  From the "come on in guys" controversy to a "pregnant man" to even so much talk of covid at the beginning of the episode, it really felt like they were going all in with being progressive.

I didn't really love the "broken fourth wall" intro either, and don't care either way about the provisions/game length.  The twists are at least theoretically interesting, and I'll be curious to see how they play out.

I just really hope they stop with the woke stuff after tonight and just let the players play the game.

[7,052,770]

I'm going to propose a thread rule that says spoilers for future episodes aren't allowed period, but once the show airs, it's fine to just talk about it without any spoiler tags. If you haven't seen the episode yet, don't look at the thread. This includes talking about it when it's aired on the East Coast but not yet on the West Coast.

Anyway, I thought it was pretty striking that nobody wanted to vote for Genie, despite her seemingly being much weaker than Sara or Shan. They also didn't really show her forming an alliance with Brad, but seemingly by tribal council, Genie/Brad/JD are a thing, and JD and Shan are tight enough that even Ricard sees it and votes with them, abandoning Sara, and they also throw a vote on Ricard because they're a strong 4 in case she dices immunity.

the "come on in guys" controversy

Yeah, that was kinda silly. Has there been any backlash against that phrase before? And if all 9 women are fine with it, even Evvie, then why is Ricard stepping to say it's wrong? Is that mansplaining?

It would be one thing if one of the women on his tribe told him she didn't like it but was too scared to say it and he was taking up for her, but it looks like he just decided to do it on his own.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

I agree re: come on in guys. Why not just change it after talking off camera and that’s it? Why put the focus on the queer castaways so they end up being the faces (and bearing the brunt) of whatever culture war Survivor is trying to stoke?

And re: Genie, I really assumed she was just out of the loop. I didn’t see her participating in the scramble about Brad vs Sara vs JD (who I would have been set to vote out the minute I heard his story) at all.

[MasterJedi]

Wasn’t the guy that spoke up with a trans man?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Wasn’t the guy that spoke up with a trans man?

Yes, and the one who said it was fine was nonbinary - either way I think it was a bad move by the show to put the whole discussion very publicly on the shoulders of two visibly queer contestants.

[Progressive Pessimist]

 I figured that the "come on, guys" thing would get mentioned here. But even though I tend not to mind stuff considered "woke," as you might expect, I also agree that this felt unnecessary. I've never seen anyone object to "guys" being used as a gender-neutral term, and that appeared to be true until Ricard spoke up about it for whatever reason. At the same time though, I'm not upset that Jeff won't be saying it anymore, I don't really care. Anyone outright upset over it is no better than those who were upset about Jeff saying it in the first place. But why does he even need to say anything? I know it's a staple of his, but is it really something so important to the show as any of Jeff's other signatures? I did kind of appreciate that he doesn't seem to give a s*** about the potential backlash to the phrase's change though.

As for the rest of the "culture war, progressive, woke" stuff that is discussed in the episode, none of it bothered me or really even provoked much thought. I mean, why shouldn't they discuss the pandemic? It's entirely responsible for delaying this season and has affected the lives of literally everybody in the world in some way, and some of the cast specifically. One may be sick of hearing about it, but it's still the most relevant problem in the world right now. And I'm especially more than fine with this very diverse cast we have. And they didn't play it up as a gimmick like they did in "Cook Islands" and "Fiji" where they were basically filling a quota, and then not really keeping casts as diverse after those two. I think they're genuine now.

Moving on to my thoughts on the premiere as a whole, I enjoyed it a lot and I like the new direction the show seems to want to take in these pandemic days...to an extent. The 26 day period, two tribes losing, the challenge penalties, and even the fourth-wall breaking all were cool new additions to me. The other new gimmicks like the prisoner's dilemma advantage and the "shot in the dark" are the kinds that I usually find myself being annoyed by. It's early enough in the season where I'm willing to give them a chance to see how the impact the game but I think the initial new things I positively received were enough to start this new era of the show. I think there might be a bit too much going on with it all.

In spite of that, my favorite thing about this premiere is that it did an excellent job of helping us get to the cast fairly well this early. Many seasons of the show usually don't give some cast members any attention until later in the show where I sometimes found myself saying "oh, I forgot that person was in the game." Here though everybody got a little moment or two and that's going to mean a lot with how fast-paced this season is going to be where we won't get as long to become acquainted with these castaways. Every episode, for awhile at least, will probably involve a challenge and two tribal councils giving us less time of the day-to-day interactions, so it was a very good move to utilize the two hour premiere to introduce the contestants.

Also, maybe it's because I was rewatching some older seasons, but did the production quality increase this season? The HD quality looks like it increased at least two or threefold. Everything looked great!

Anyway, long story short, it's just nice to have a new season of 'Survivor' again-a show I can look forward to watching every week-even as I'm of mixed opinion of some of the new twists and turns this season is throwing at us.

[7,052,770]

Wasn’t the guy that spoke up with a trans man?

Yes, and the one who said it was fine was nonbinary - either way I think it was a bad move by the show to put the whole discussion very publicly on the shoulders of two visibly queer contestants.

Is she(?)? I'm pretty sure she used the phrase "as queer woman..."

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Wasn’t the guy that spoke up with a trans man?

Yes, and the one who said it was fine was nonbinary - either way I think it was a bad move by the show to put the whole discussion very publicly on the shoulders of two visibly queer contestants.

Is she(?)? I'm pretty sure she used the phrase "as queer woman..."

They identify as genderqueer on social media and use they/them and she/her pronouns.

[Hope For A New Era]

I watched the premiere last night. It was interesting. I'm not sure how I feel about the new intensity, but I think they're being much more careful with the advantages and twists, no more advantage spam, which is nice.

I was surprised by the "come on in guys" thing. I'm going to miss the line. It was iconic, an institution, up there with "the tribe has spoken." It seemed a little unnecessary for the show to take such an explicit social justice direction, and I'm saying this as someone who strongly supports most of these causes. I fear Survivor becoming like Big Brother (which doesn't really feel like a social experiment anymore).