Spanish elections and politics II: Catalan elections on February 14, 2021
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Velasco
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« Reply #1725 on: August 14, 2020, 01:08:33 AM »
« edited: August 14, 2020, 08:48:50 AM by Velasco »

José Manuel Calvente, the lawyer who worked for Podemos and filed a complaint for alleged mususe of funds, declared before the judge on July 29 for more than three hours. The full audio was sent to the parties at trial after Vox requested it (the Abascal party is acting as private prosecutor, something that is allowed in Spain for some weird reason). Calvente ratified his accusations, alleging the party billed "false services", paid "unjustified bonus" and transferred money in nontransparent ways. However, when the judge asked him to go into details, Mr Calvente said he has no evidence and is basing his accusations on things he heard to other party employees. They told him about the alleged irregularities, such as the alleged fake billings in favour of Neurona consulting (owned or participated by Podemos co-founder JC Monedero). When the judge asked him about five campaign contracts deemed false in the complaint, Mr Calvente rectified saying "they could be false". "I'm not making a definitive statement", said Calvente to the judge, but talking about "a number of indications" told to him by others. Podemos filed a motion to dismiss the complaint, claiming it's based on "rumours and speculations".

By the moment it doesn't look like theere's a solid case against Podemos, leaving aside that Calvente saw "strange things" and some people told him about alleged wrongdoings. It's true that Podemos is the second party after the PP under investigation* as a legal person, but I don't see anything remotely comparable to the Gürtel scheme regardless what the plaintiff says. Another question is that the inquiry finds evidence of irregularities by other means.

* The current legal term in Spain is investigado ("investigated"), but the press is still using the old term imputado, which is a word not easy to translate as it has a connotation of "accused" without actually meaning a formal accusation
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BigSerg
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« Reply #1726 on: August 15, 2020, 07:35:23 AM »
« Edited: August 15, 2020, 09:12:04 AM by 7sergi9 »

José Manuel Calvente, the lawyer who worked for Podemos and filed a complaint for alleged mususe of funds, declared before the judge on July 29 for more than three hours. The full audio was sent to the parties at trial after Vox requested it (the Abascal party is acting as private prosecutor, something that is allowed in Spain for some weird reason). Calvente ratified his accusations, alleging the party billed "false services", paid "unjustified bonus" and transferred money in nontransparent ways. However, when the judge asked him to go into details, Mr Calvente said he has no evidence and is basing his accusations on things he heard to other party employees. They told him about the alleged irregularities, such as the alleged fake billings in favour of Neurona consulting (owned or participated by Podemos co-founder JC Monedero). When the judge asked him about five campaign contracts deemed false in the complaint, Mr Calvente rectified saying "they could be false". "I'm not making a definitive statement", said Calvente to the judge, but talking about "a number of indications" told to him by others. Podemos filed a motion to dismiss the complaint, claiming it's based on "rumours and speculations".

By the moment it doesn't look like theere's a solid case against Podemos, leaving aside that Calvente saw "strange things" and some people told him about alleged wrongdoings. It's true that Podemos is the second party after the PP under investigation* as a legal person, but I don't see anything remotely comparable to the Gürtel scheme regardless what the plaintiff says. Another question is that the inquiry finds evidence of irregularities by other means.

* The current legal term in Spain is investigado ("investigated"), but the press is still using the old term imputado, which is a word not easy to translate as it has a connotation of "accused" without actually meaning a formal accusation

Other senior officials have described irregular payments as "solidarity," excusing themselves without denying anything.

You definitely don't say those things unless you're guilty.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffingtonpost.es/amp/entry/monedero-caja-b-podemos_es_5f34fb63c5b6fc009a61ddec/

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Velasco
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« Reply #1727 on: August 15, 2020, 08:54:52 AM »

Lol, is that the real account of Pablo Echenique? It's not that I'm a fan of Echenique and Monedero (actually I can't stand them), but re-tweeting lame impersonators to back your arguments is not a great idea. As for the caja de solidaridad ( "solidarity fund"), my qualified opinion as a comunista de chalé ("villa Communist") is that there's no case
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« Reply #1728 on: August 15, 2020, 09:15:06 AM »
« Edited: August 15, 2020, 09:20:07 AM by 7sergi9 »

Lol, is that the real account of Pablo Echenique? It's not that I'm a fan of Echenique and Monedero (actually I can't stand them), but re-tweeting lame impersonators to back your arguments is not a great idea. As for the caja de solidaridad ( "solidarity fund"), my qualified opinion as a comunista de chalé ("villa Communist") is that there's no case

Of course...

https://amp.elmundo.es/madrid/2020/08/12/5f341ea8fdddff62668b456e.html?__twitter_impression=true

Monedero, who is also a contributor to the program presented this Thursday by Ana Terradillos, has explained that "as there is a limitation of salary" in Podemos, "the part that members do not receive" "goes to a solidarity box that is distributed".

🤡🤡🤡
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« Reply #1729 on: August 15, 2020, 09:37:51 AM »

For what is worth, while Monedero was one of the founders of Podemos and indeed a big figure early on, he was also one of the earliest to get "purged". Indeed he did not even last to Podemos' 2nd election as a party, and resigned all his positions on April of 2015.
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BigSerg
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« Reply #1730 on: August 15, 2020, 09:55:07 AM »

For what is worth, while Monedero was one of the founders of Podemos and indeed a big figure early on, he was also one of the earliest to get "purged". Indeed he did not even last to Podemos' 2nd election as a party, and resigned all his positions on April of 2015.

That means nothing, he claims that the "solidarity fund" exists, no matter if it was in 2015.
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Velasco
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« Reply #1731 on: August 15, 2020, 10:14:37 AM »
« Edited: August 15, 2020, 10:20:04 AM by Velasco »

But there's nothing wrong with that. Neither wage ceiling nor the solidarity fund are illegal.

 I find the comparison between the Podemos "solidarity fund" and the PP's "B fund" (parallel accounting) quite disingenuous, to be honest. I see El Mundo is trying to involve Manuela Carmena, too (I suspect it's based on speculations, without actual evidence). On the one hand it's funny because the relationship between Podemos and the former Mayor of Madrid became so strained, on the other hand I dislike very much sensationalism and partisan journalism.

 It is well established with actual evidence that the Vox leader Santiago Abascal earned a good salary as the chairman of a public foundation without employees or real functions, funded by the Madrid regional government under Esperanza Aguirre. But reaching the top heights of hypocrisy, one of the main Vox banners is crying for the waste of public funds. Vox leaders are notorious for their absolute disregard of truth -as good pupils of the Trump's academy- and part of the Vox success is due to the fact that voters don't care at all about the truth. Vox was funded by an obscure Iranian group, as Javier Ortega Smith admitted, but now it's acting as a private prosecutor against Podemos...

I think it's alright the judiciary investigates alleged wrongdoings, but I don't like double standards
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« Reply #1732 on: August 15, 2020, 12:45:18 PM »
« Edited: August 15, 2020, 02:45:12 PM by 7sergi9 »

"solidarity fund"






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Velasco
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« Reply #1733 on: August 17, 2020, 04:33:29 AM »
« Edited: August 17, 2020, 06:07:03 AM by Velasco »

Two weeks after the departure of former king Juan Carlos, the government's discomfort increases due to the secrecy surrounding his whereabouts. Pedro Sanchez is committed not to reveal where is Juan Carlos, claiming it's up the royal household or the emeritus king himself to inform the public

https://english.elpais.com/politics/2020-08-13/spanish-pm-refuses-to-reveal-whereabouts-of-emeritus-king-juan-carlos.html

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Since August 4, the whereabouts of the father of the current monarch, Felipe VI, have been unknown, something that is becoming an uncomfortable issue for the central government. Questioned by reporters on Wednesday, Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez said that the responsibility for providing information as to the former king’s whereabouts lie with the royal household and Juan Carlos himself. “We are different institutions,” he insisted

Sánchez went as far as to say he didn't know JC's whereabouts, despite the government provides escort to the former king. Later the PM argued his cabinet and the royal household represent different branches of the government (executive power and head of the state), the same argument used to avoid questions about the Podemos inquiry (in more recent news, El País reports the government closes tanks before the accusations). Basically government sources think the secrecy and the subsequent rumours and speculations don't benefit the monarchy at all. The more likely reason for that secrecy is the personal interest of the former king, who does not want to be disturbed. Maybe king Felipe respects his wishes because his father's sacrifice going to 'exile' is hard enough. Sooner or later some photographer will take a picture somewhere, or some journalist will discover the whereabouts of Juan Carlos

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« Reply #1734 on: August 17, 2020, 10:48:08 AM »

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« Reply #1735 on: August 17, 2020, 10:54:27 AM »

The Royal Household has finally confirmed the whereabouts of former King Juan Carlos: He's been in the United Arab Emirates since August 3, which is the same place where the photo of him disembarking a plane was allegedly taken.
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Velasco
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« Reply #1736 on: August 17, 2020, 11:02:27 AM »

The Royal Household has finally confirmed the whereabouts of former King Juan Carlos: He's been in the United Arab Emirates since August 3, which is the same place where the photo of him disembarking a plane was allegedly taken.

Excellent news! I hope our friends in the Emirates are treating him like a king!

Welcome to the forum, btw
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« Reply #1737 on: August 17, 2020, 11:40:20 AM »

Rather big news. Pablo Casado has removed the controversial Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo from her post as spokesman (?) of the PP in Congress. Her post will go to Cuca Gamarra. Jose Luis Martínez-Almeida, the mayor of Madrid, was also made the national spokesman for the party:

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Velasco
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« Reply #1738 on: August 17, 2020, 11:55:14 AM »
« Edited: August 17, 2020, 12:06:43 PM by Velasco »

Wow. Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo is a hardliner and a free verse, too. She has been advocating a "concentration government" with the PSOE at her own peril and despite she has been very harsh with Sánchez. The current Mayor of Madrid has a better public image and is less controversial than the Madrid premier. Cuca Gamarra is a former mayor of Logroño and has been the PP's Deputy Secretary for Social Affairs until now. Ana Pastor is a former Health minister, quite moderate in her manners and a Rajoy loyalist. It's up to see what is going to be the tone and the strategy of the PP from now on...
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« Reply #1739 on: August 17, 2020, 12:06:21 PM »

Wow. Cayetana Álvarez de?Toledo is a hardliner and a free verse, too. She has been advocating a "concentration government" with the PSOE at her own peril and despite she has been very harsh with Sánchez. The current Mayor of Madrid has a better public image and is less controversial than the Madrid premier. Cuca Gamarra is a former mayor of Logroño and has been the PP's Deputy Secretary for Social Affairs until now. It's up to see what is going to be the tone and the strategy of the PP from now on...

I think that with these changes, Casado is signaling a more centrist tone and strategy. After Feijóo's success in Galicia and Iturgaiz's failure in the Basque Country, it seems like the logical course of action. Capitalizing on Almeida's cross-party appeal is also a smart move.
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« Reply #1740 on: August 17, 2020, 01:31:47 PM »

Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo just held a very belligerent press conference, coherent with her style. She harshly criticized the leadership of the PP and revealed details about her private conversation with Pablo Casado (who she kept referring to as "Mr. Casado") this morning and about internal affairs of the party (she revealed that she wanted to allow a conscience vote on moral issues for MPs and that the parliamentary leadership lacked autonomy due to the personal interference of General Secretary Teodoro García-Egea, among other things).

She stated her clear opposition to Pablo Casado's decision to sack her, which according to her is bad for the party and the country. She said that Casado told her he was unhappy about her outspokenness (which he considers a challenge to his authority) and her opposition to talks with the Government on the Budget and the appointment of judges (from which she was completely excluded). She also claimed that he disliked her focus on "culture war" issues like feminism and the legacy of Franco's dictatorship.

In regards to her future, she didn't say whether she would resign from her seat or leave the party. She will spend a couple of days with her daughters before making any decision.
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Skye
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« Reply #1741 on: August 17, 2020, 02:19:32 PM »

Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo just held a very belligerent press conference, coherent with her style. She harshly criticized the leadership of the PP and revealed details about her private conversation with Pablo Casado (who she kept referring to as "Mr. Casado") this morning and about internal affairs of the party (she revealed that she wanted to allow a conscience vote on moral issues for MPs and that the parliamentary leadership lacked autonomy due to the personal interference of General Secretary Teodoro García-Egea, among other things).

She stated her clear opposition to Pablo Casado's decision to sack her, which according to her is bad for the party and the country. She said that Casado told her he was unhappy about her outspokenness (which he considers a challenge to his authority) and her opposition to talks with the Government on the Budget and the appointment of judges (from which she was completely excluded). She also claimed that he disliked her focus on "culture war" issues like feminism and the legacy of Franco's dictatorship.

In regards to her future, she didn't say whether she would resign from her seat or leave the party. She will spend a couple of days with her daughters before making any decision.

I mean, I do believe party members don't need to behave in a monolithic manner, but if you are a party's spokesperson in Congress, your statements probably need to reflect the direction the party leaders want.
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Velasco
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« Reply #1742 on: August 18, 2020, 06:19:26 AM »
« Edited: August 18, 2020, 07:00:25 AM by Velasco »

Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo just held a very belligerent press conference, coherent with her style. She harshly criticized the leadership of the PP and revealed details about her private conversation with Pablo Casado (who she kept referring to as "Mr. Casado") this morning and about internal affairs of the party (she revealed that she wanted to allow a conscience vote on moral issues for MPs and that the parliamentary leadership lacked autonomy due to the personal interference of General Secretary Teodoro García-Egea, among other things).

She stated her clear opposition to Pablo Casado's decision to sack her, which according to her is bad for the party and the country. She said that Casado told her he was unhappy about her outspokenness (which he considers a challenge to his authority) and her opposition to talks with the Government on the Budget and the appointment of judges (from which she was completely excluded). She also claimed that he disliked her focus on "culture war" issues like feminism and the legacy of Franco's dictatorship.

In regards to her future, she didn't say whether she would resign from her seat or leave the party. She will spend a couple of days with her daughters before making any decision.

I mean, I do believe party members don't need to behave in a monolithic manner, but if you are a party's spokesperson in Congress, your statements probably need to reflect the direction the party leaders want.

Sure, but remember that Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo was personally chosen by Pablo Casado (as well the Madrid premier Isabel Díaz Ayuso). Casado picked the Marchioness of Casa Fuerte (that's the nobility title held by the sacked spokeswoman) due to ideological affinity, because both are hardliners and heirs of José María Aznar and Esperanza Aguirre. Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo is an educated woman, articulate and good in rhetorics. But she's also a radical rightwinger sometimes too close to Vox, as well too outspoken and undisciplined for a party spokesperson. Now Casado finds out that Álvarez de Toledo, the woman he called "the Messi of the PP", is a free verse that is challenging his authority while reading an interview in El País

https://elpais.com/espana/2020-08-15/urge-un-gobierno-de-concentracion-moral-y-constitucional-en-espana.html

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No soporta la etiqueta de verso suelto pero reafirma que necesita la libertad de pensar y opinar dentro de su partido para hacer política, su pasión. Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo (Madrid, 1974) es la escrutada portavoz del PP en el Congreso, desde hace un año, pero quiere ser el ariete de la “batalla cultural” en la derecha contra la izquierda dominante.  
 

"She can't stand the 'free verse' label but affirms she needs freedom to think and give her opinion to make politics, her passion. Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo has been the spokeswoman of the PP in Congress for a year, but she wants to be the battering ram of the right in the 'cultural battle' against the left"

I mean, that's entirely Casado's fault because Álvarez de Toledo has never deceived anyone about her intentions. When you pick someone like her, you must be ready to deal with the consequences. Cuca Gamarra, the new party spokeswoman in Congress, is more disciplined and moderate in tone. The former Mayor of Logroño backed Soraya Sáez de Santamaría in the leadership contest, but she has been loyal to Casado since his election. Ana Pastor replaces Gamarra in her party roles, which is remarkable because the Congress' Deputy Speaker and former Health minister is a staunch Rajoy loyalist. The current Mayor of Madrid, José Luis Martínez Almeida, was not the Casado's personal choice. He ran in the last local elections because he was the PP's spokesman in the Madrid City Hall by the time, after the retirement of Esperanza Aguirre. He appeals to me as a good public relations, but I suspect he's a staunch conservative like his predecessor Alberto Ruiz Gallardón, who was once the PP member preferred by the left due to his moderate tone.

In sum, these new appointments are not the profiles promoted by Casado when he reached party leadership advocating an "ideological rearmament". After the disastrous election in April 2019, Casado was forced to a somewhat 'moderate turn' by his 'barons'. But he turned again to a harsher tone and a frontal opposition to the government, promoting the hardliner aznarista Carlos Iturgaiz at the head of a failed España Suma experiment in the Basque Country. Possibly Casado has been pressed by his 'barons'' again after the success of Feijóo in Galicia and the catastrophe of his appointee Iturgaiz in Euskadi. My impression is that the PP will continue being erratic and directionless as long as Casado remains, but in politics you never know
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« Reply #1743 on: August 18, 2020, 08:35:34 AM »

Worth noting that Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo being fired and replaced with Cuca Gamarra also reinforces the turn towards moderation and the center that PP has done since the pandemic started.

Basically it seems PP will be adopting a much less belligerant and much more concilliatory tone. Whether it works or not is a question nobody knows the answer to of course.
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Velasco
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« Reply #1744 on: August 18, 2020, 09:06:46 AM »
« Edited: August 18, 2020, 09:24:03 AM by Velasco »

Worth noting that Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo being fired and replaced with Cuca Gamarra also reinforces the turn towards moderation and the center that PP has done since the pandemic started.

Do you really think the PP turned to "moderation" when the pandemic started? Seriously? Perhaps the harsh attacks during the worst stages, with 800 or 900 dead every day, were product of my imagination. I'll welcome any sign of "moderation" and "common sense", in any case. "United before adversity"
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« Reply #1745 on: August 18, 2020, 09:21:34 AM »

Worth noting that Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo being fired and replaced with Cuca Gamarra also reinforces the turn towards moderation and the center that PP has done since the pandemic started.

Do you really think the PP turned to "moderation" when the pandrmic started? Seriously? Perhaps the harsh attacks during the worst stages, with 800 or 900 dead every day, were product of my imagination. I'll welcome any sign of "moderation" and "common sense", in any case. "United before adversity"
I said during, not at the start. There were several agreements signed by all parties minus Vox not too long ago after all
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« Reply #1746 on: August 18, 2020, 10:38:06 AM »
« Edited: August 18, 2020, 10:59:51 AM by 7sergi9 »

Worth noting that Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo being fired and replaced with Cuca Gamarra also reinforces the turn towards moderation and the center that PP has done since the pandemic started.

Do you really think the PP turned to "moderation" when the pandemic started? Seriously? Perhaps the harsh attacks during the worst stages, with 800 or 900 dead every day, were product of my imagination. I'll welcome any sign of "moderation" and "common sense", in any case. "United before adversity"

So it's "radical" to question the government?

It seems that "moderation" means saying nothing and agreeing with everything the government says... During the Ebola crisis there was no moderation.








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Velasco
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« Reply #1747 on: August 18, 2020, 11:18:40 AM »
« Edited: August 18, 2020, 04:42:39 PM by Velasco »

Worth noting that Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo being fired and replaced with Cuca Gamarra also reinforces the turn towards moderation and the center that PP has done since the pandemic started.

Do you really think the PP turned to "moderation" when the pandemic started? Seriously? Perhaps the harsh attacks during the worst stages, with 800 or 900 dead every day, were product of my imagination. I'll welcome any sign of "moderation" and "common sense", in any case. "United before adversity"

So it's "radical" to question the government?

It seems that "moderation" means saying nothing and agreeing with everything the government says.

No, you are wrong. Uniting before adversity is a matter of patriotism, at least during the worst moments. You have the example of Portugal to see how a responsible opposition leader must behave in these situations. Rui Rio has been praised in some Spanish media for good reasons:

https://www.lavanguardia.com/internacional/20200516/481163162534/rui-rio-portugal-oposocion-gobierno-gestion-crisis.html

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La disrupción provocada por la pandemia resulta tan intensa que la política española ha descubierto que Portugal existe, de manera que pierde un poco de vigencia la máxima de Pi i Margall de que en España se sabe mejor quién gobierna en Rusia que quién lo hace al otro lado de la frontera lusa.

Con el primer ministro António Costa casi convertido en un héroe popular por su defensa de España frente a las críticas de Holanda y con el Partido Popular usando las mucho mejores cifras oficiales de Portugal como arma arrojadiza, el Gobierno de Pedro Sánchez encontró en el jefe de la oposición, el conservador Rui Rio, el modelo que contraponer a la actitud de Pablo Casado, con su apuesta por ser un “soldado” en la colaboración con el Ejecutivo socialista de Lisboa (...)

Que el país sepa que el PSD apoya al Gobierno en este combate. Estamos en una emergencia nacional. Tenemos una amenaza que combatir. Lo que se exige es unidad, solidaridad y responsabilidad, en el nombre del interés nacional”.  
 

Rui Rio stated he's is not backping the socialists, he's backing the government of Portugal in a situation of emergency.

Meanwhile in the government of Spain was dealing with an unprecedented situation with more or less success, surely trying to do its best while suffering a campaign of harassment and destabilization consisting in vicious attacks and hyperbole. There is a big difference between criticizing the possible errors of the government (for sure they existed, mixed with some successes) and the baseless accusations of criminal behaviour. A responsible opposition leader never claims the government is killing its citizens without clear evidence, because making such baseless accusations  is an execrable sin named slander. A loyal and responsible opposition leader oversees the government's management and bases criticism on verifiable data.

On the other hand, I'd be curious to know the reaction of rightwingers if the opposition in Madrid was using the same tactics against Ayuso, because there's mounting evidence suggesting her management has been disastrous on many fronts
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« Reply #1748 on: August 18, 2020, 11:20:51 AM »
« Edited: August 18, 2020, 11:26:51 AM by 7sergi9 »

Worth noting that Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo being fired and replaced with Cuca Gamarra also reinforces the turn towards moderation and the center that PP has done since the pandemic started.

Do you really think the PP turned to "moderation" when the pandemic started? Seriously? Perhaps the harsh attacks during the worst stages, with 800 or 900 dead every day, were product of my imagination. I'll welcome any sign of "moderation" and "common sense", in any case. "United before adversity"

So it's "radical" to question the government?

It seems that "moderation" means saying nothing and agreeing with everything the government says.

No, you are wrong. Uniting before adversity is a matter of patriotism, at least during the worst moments. You have the example of Portugal to see how a responsible opposition leader must behave in these situations. Rui Rio hs been praised in some Spanish media for good reasons:

https://www.lavanguardia.com/internacional/20200516/481163162534/rui-rio-portugal-oposocion-gobierno-gestion-crisis.html

Quote
La disrupción provocada por la pandemia resulta tan intensa que la política española ha descubierto que Portugal existe, de manera que pierde un poco de vigencia la máxima de Pi i Margall de que en España se sabe mejor quién gobierna en Rusia que quién lo hace al otro lado de la frontera lusa.

Con el primer ministro António Costa casi convertido en un héroe popular por su defensa de España frente a las críticas de Holanda y con el Partido Popular usando las mucho mejores cifras oficiales de Portugal como arma arrojadiza, el Gobierno de Pedro Sánchez encontró en el jefe de la oposición, el conservador Rui Rio, el modelo que contraponer a la actitud de Pablo Casado, con su apuesta por ser un “soldado” en la colaboración con el Ejecutivo socialista de Lisboa (...)

Que el país sepa que el PSD apoya al Gobierno en este combate. Estamos en una emergencia nacional. Tenemos una amenaza que combatir. Lo que se exige es unidad, solidaridad y responsabilidad, en el nombre del interés nacional”.  
 

Rui Rio steted he's is not bacing the socialists, he's backing the government of Portugal in a situation of emergency.

Meanwhile in the government of Spain was dealing with an unprecedented situation with more or less success, surely trying to do its best while suffering a campaign of harassment and destabilization consisting in vicious attacks and hyperbole. There is a big difference between criticizing the possible errors of the government (for sure they existed, mixed with some successes) and the baseless accusations of criminal behaviour. A responsible opposition leader never claims the government is killing its citizens without clear evidence, because making such baseless accusations  is an execrable sin named slander. A responisble and efficient opposition leader oversees the government's management and bases criticism on verifiable data.

On the other hand, I'd be curious to know the reaction of rightwingers if the opposition in Madrid was using the same tactics against Ayuso, because there's mounting evidence suggesting her management has been disastrous on many fronts









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Velasco
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #1749 on: August 18, 2020, 11:31:02 AM »
« Edited: August 18, 2020, 01:59:11 PM by Velasco »

Are you trying to compare the situation created by the Ebola virus with the ongoing crisis? Good luck with that. Also, Pedro Sánchez said "the government is responsible". He did not accuse the Rajoy administration of killing Spanish citizens. This is a very serious accusation that can't be done lightly. If Casado and Abascal were honest persons moved by the national interest. not by ideological hatred or the desire to topple the government, they should apologize and resign their seats immediately

Please, don't spam the thread posting loads of tweets. I have nothing against freedom of speech, but I prefer if you limit your re-tweets to the strictly necessary
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