Spanish elections and politics II: Catalan elections on February 14, 2021
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bigic
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« Reply #1325 on: January 03, 2020, 02:48:37 PM »

CC will abstain
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urutzizu
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« Reply #1326 on: January 03, 2020, 04:54:47 PM »

So, um, Quim Torra has just been removed from his office by the Electoral Court?
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Velasco
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« Reply #1327 on: January 04, 2020, 05:10:56 AM »
« Edited: January 04, 2020, 05:18:19 AM by Velasco »

So, um, Quim Torra has just been removed from his office by the Electoral Court?


Yesterday the Electoral Court agreed by a narrow margin to withdraw the credential of Quim Torra as member of the Catalan parliament, which makes him ineligible as premier. The decision was motivated by a last month's ruling that sentenced him to be disqualified 1 1/2 year. Torra was found guilty of disobedience, because during electoral campaign last spring, he refused to withdraw some yellow ribbons (a vindicating symbol for the Catalan jailed politicians) from the balcony of the regional government building. Torra's departure won't be immediate, as his defence will appeal before the Supreme Court and the ruling might be suspended as precautionary measure by the latter within 24 hours.

At the moment Torra is still premier, but his possible removal from office shakes up Catalan politics and complicates the investiture of Pedro Sánchez, because ERC will be pressed from the independence movement to withdraw the deal with the socialists.
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Velasco
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« Reply #1328 on: January 04, 2020, 11:41:13 AM »

CC deputy Ana Oramas will vote against the investiture, despite her la party leadership agreed to abstain. Oramas has been always very vocal against Podemos. She is is a veteran member of parliament and belongs to an affluent family from Tenerife island.

ERC leadership holds on to the agreement with the PSOE, despite the Electoral Court. Nothing is safe until Tuesday

Right now the investiture has167 in favour, 165 against and 18  abstentions
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Mike88
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« Reply #1329 on: January 04, 2020, 11:46:55 AM »

Like almost always, the Spanish political scene has basically no headlines in Portugal, until today when Portuguese media found this:


Quote
Spain: Spanish Government Agreement provides for Portuguese televisions and radios to be broadcast in Galicia

Quote
The agreement between the PSOE and the Galician Nationalist Block (BNG) for the Galician nationalist deputy, Néstor Rego, to vote in favor of Pedro Sánchez's investiture foresees that it will facilitate the broadcasting of Portuguese radio and television channels in Galicia. This was a measure that was already foreseen in the well-known “Paz-Andrade Law”, dated 2014, but was not implemented.

Plus, this:


Quote
The gaffe of the day. Does Vox want to attach Portugal to the Spanish territory?

Quote
The Vox wants the Spaniards to protest on 12 January in front of town councils to claim a government that respects the "Constitution and sovereignty," but the map of the country is raising many doubts.

Vox seems not only to be unhappy with the idea of Catalonia's independence in Spain, but also to aspire the aggregation of Portugal to the territory of our brothers. Or it may have just been a design problem in an image used to promote a rally scheduled for January 12th.

Also, about the investiture vote, will Bildu abstain? That seems odd.
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« Reply #1330 on: January 04, 2020, 01:28:14 PM »

CC deputy Ana Oramas will vote against the investiture, despite her la party leadership agreed to abstain. Oramas has been always very vocal against Podemos. She is is a veteran member of parliament and belongs to an affluent family from Tenerife island.

ERC leadership holds on to the agreement with the PSOE, despite the Electoral Court. Nothing is safe until Tuesday

Right now the investiture has167 in favour, 165 against and 18  abstentions

TVE was reporting that CC was gonna be en contra. Good to hear it's just one though!
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Velasco
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« Reply #1331 on: January 05, 2020, 10:32:01 AM »
« Edited: January 05, 2020, 11:01:47 AM by Velasco »

Pedro Sánchez loses first vote

https://elpais.com/elpais/2020/01/03/inenglish/1578066750_393888.html

Quote
Spain will not break up; there will be dialogue to deal with the “political conflict” with Catalonia, without straying beyond the confines of the Spanish Constitution; and a coalition government made up of the Socialist Party (PSOE) and Unidas Podemos will implement reformist policies that will cast aside measures from previous administrations with regard to the economy, employment and personal freedoms. Those were some of the commitments set out on Saturday by caretaker Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez, as he addressed Spain’s lower house of parliament, the Congress of Deputies, on the first day of his investiture debate (...)

Very tense moments during the speech of the EH Bildu spokeswoman, with the rightwing opposition calling her  ''terrorist'' while she deemed the Spanish State ''authoritarian''.

Teruel Existe deputy denounced pressure from the right. Someone painted a,graffiti at his village home and Vox leader Santiago Abascal called him traitor in Tweeter

Cs spokeswoman.Inés Arrimadas tried unsuccessfully to appeal rebel PSOE deputies. Adriana Lastra told to her that it's sad when you become irrelevant.

Yes 166 (PSOE, UP, PNV, MP, Compromis, BNG, NC, TE)
No 165 (PP, VOX, Cs, JxCAT, CUP, UPN, CC, PRC, Foro)
Abstain 18 (ERC, EH Bildu)

There's one vote missingin the ''yes'' camp, a deputy from Barcelona (ECP) is ill and could not attend nor register her telematic vote in time.

Second vote on Tuesday. Sánchez will pass if he retains his narrow simple majority




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Velasco
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« Reply #1332 on: January 05, 2020, 10:52:11 AM »

UP members in next cabinet, providing second vote is successful

Pablo Iglesias (41): Deputy PM
Irene Montero (31): Equality
Yolanda Díaz (Galicia en Común, aged 41): Labour
Manuel Castells (proposed by ECP,  aged 77): Universities
Alberto Garzón (IU leader, aged 34): Consumer Affairs, including the regulation of gambling
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Skye
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« Reply #1333 on: January 05, 2020, 12:59:03 PM »

So it's very likely that Sánchez will win that vote, right? No last minute changes?
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Velasco
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« Reply #1334 on: January 05, 2020, 02:42:53 PM »

So it's very likely that Sánchez will win that vote, right? No last minute changes?

It's likely, but people in the left is crossing fingers. There's always the possibility that someone's falling ill or missing a train or a plane. The majority is so narrow that every vote counts

Tomás Guitarte, the Teruel Existe member, states there's no way he's gonna switch sides

https://elpais.com/politica/2020/01/05/actualidad/1578241358_989427.html

On the other hand, it's unlikely that Ana Oramas changes her mind. Oramas might be expelled from CC and her decision might create a rift within Canarian regionalists. She represents the most conservative factiion based on Tenerife island. As I said before, she's very vocal against Podemos due to alleged chavista links. The influence of former Canarian emigrants returned from Venezuela is strong in some insular branches of CC. Also, Oramas and the conservatives within CC are not apparently in favour of a reunification with NC. Oramas won't resign her seat in case of being expelled.
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Skye
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« Reply #1335 on: January 05, 2020, 03:12:08 PM »

As I said before, she's very vocal against Podemos due to alleged chavista links. The influence of former Canarian emigrants returned from Venezuela is strong in some insular branches of CC.

Keep in mind it's not just old emigrants returned from Venezuela, but young Venezuelans who migrated to Spain and hold Spanish citizenship. But yeah, I'd dare to say most Venezuelan expats in Spain that pay just a modicum of attention to politics don't have a positive image of Podemos, to say the least.
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #1336 on: January 05, 2020, 03:22:59 PM »

Fun fact: the other Canarian nationalist in Congress (Pedro Quevedo, NCa), who is voting Yes on Sanchez, was born in nowhere other than Caracas, Venezuela Tongue

He came to Spain as a child in the early 1960s though; well before Chavismo was a thing, but still a fun statistic nontheless.
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Velasco
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« Reply #1337 on: January 05, 2020, 04:25:29 PM »
« Edited: January 06, 2020, 03:01:02 PM by Velasco »

As I said before, she's very vocal against Podemos due to alleged chavista links. The influence of former Canarian emigrants returned from Venezuela is strong in some insular branches of CC.

Keep in mind it's not just old emigrants returned from Venezuela, but young Venezuelans who migrated to Spain and hold Spanish citizenship. But yeah, I'd dare to say most Venezuelan expats in Spain that pay just a modicum of attention to politics don't have a positive image of Podemos, to say the least.

I know most Venezuelan expats are anti- Chavez and don't have a good opinion of Podemos, despite Pablo Iglesias and others began to take distance from the post-Chávez disaster some time ago. In any case, I was referring to the CC membership in Santa Cruz de Tenerife province. Curious fact: it surfaced the not so young Juan Guaido's father was a taxi driver in Tenerife (maybe he's still there). Anyway, the Canary Islands have close ties to Venezuela due to historical emigration. CC has a presence in the country via Canarian emigrants and their offspring (they can vote in our elections if they hold Spanish citizenship). In the case of Ana Oramas, she's from a family of landowners in Tenerife. I ignore if she has some relatives in Venezuela, as nearly everybody in her province. Another fun fact: the grandmother of the Podemos deputy Alberto Rodríguez (an engineer notorious because of his rastaman appearance, curently secretary for organization) was a humble seamstress who made seam works for the Oramas' family and other wealthy families in the beautiful historical town of La Laguna.

There were emigrants from Las Palmas province too (case of Quevedo s family), but their influence is not so strong. Personally I have met several Venezuelans from both sides (a majority here is anti-Chávez, but there are exceptions)
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« Reply #1338 on: January 05, 2020, 04:54:37 PM »

As I said before, she's very vocal against Podemos due to alleged chavista links. The influence of former Canarian emigrants returned from Venezuela is strong in some insular branches of CC.

Keep in mind it's not just old emigrants returned from Venezuela, but young Venezuelans who migrated to Spain and hold Spanish citizenship. But yeah, I'd dare to say most Venezuelan expats in Spain that pay just a modicum of attention to politics don't have a positive image of Podemos, to say the least.

I know most Venezuelan expats are anti- Chavez and don't have a good opinion of Podemos, despite Pablo Iglesias and others began to take distance from the post-Chávez disaster some time ago. In any case, I was referring to the CC membership in Santa Cruz de Tenerife province. Curious fact: it surfaced the not so young Juan Guaido's father was a taxi driver in Tenerife (maybe he's still there). Anyway, the Canary Islands have close ties to Venezuela due to historical emigration. CC has a presence in the country via Canarian emigrants and their offspring (they can vote in our elections if they hold Spanish citizenship). In the case of Ana Oramas, she's from a family of landowners in Tenerife. I ignore if she has some relatives in Venezuela, as nearly everybody in her province. Another fun fact: the grandmother of the Podemos deputy Alberto Rodríguez (an engineer notorious because of his rastaman appearance, curently secretary for organization) was a humble seamstress who made seam works for the Oramas' family and other wealthy families  elin La Laguna.

There were emigrants from Las Palmas province too (case of Quevedo s family), but their influence is not so strong. Personally I have met several Venezuelans from both sides (a majority here is anti-Chávez, but there are exceptions)


 P
to

I don't want to derail this thread further, but yes, ties to the Canary Islands in Venezuela are common. My father told me my great-grandmother was from there, but good luck trying to prove that now Tongue

I imagine now that the migration rate has exploded, it's more feasible that you meet pro-Chávez Venezuelans. A few years ago, when primarily wealthier folks migrated, that probably would have been more difficult. In the 2012 election, just before he died, Chávez received just under 7% of the vote from Venezuelans living in the Canary Islands: http://www.cne.gob.ve/resultado_presidencial_2012/r/2/reg_992603.html

Granted, turnout was low (I imagine it's because the only voting center for people in the region is in Tenerife so people from the other islands had to travel there to vote), plus there is the fact that there are few Venezuelans registered to vote abroad, not in minor part because chavismo likes to make it difficult for folks like us to vote.

To tie this to the thread, don't think us Venezuelans abroad are right wingers just because most of us hate Chávez and Maduro with a passion. I know for a fact some of my friends here are quite happy with the PSOE winning, even if they probably aren't exactly thrilled with the Podemos deal. After all, Venezuelan politics is vastly dominated by leftist parties. That said, many, if not most, will cringe at the mere prospect of having people with a history of praising chavismo in the government, and will vote accordingly; which in Spain, clearly means voting for the right wing parties.
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warandwar
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« Reply #1339 on: January 05, 2020, 04:59:54 PM »

UP members in next cabinet, providing second vote is successful

Pablo Iglesias (41): Deputy PM
Irene Montero (31): Equality
Yolanda Díaz (Galicia en Común, aged 41): Labour
Manuel Castells (proposed by ECP,  aged 77): Universities
Alberto Garzón (IU leader, aged 34): Consumer Affairs, including the regulation of gambling
That's *the* Manuel Castells, right? Very influential scholar, love his work.
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Velasco
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« Reply #1340 on: January 05, 2020, 06:00:27 PM »
« Edited: January 05, 2020, 06:47:24 PM by Velasco »

As I said before, she's very vocal against Podemos due to alleged chavista links. The influence of former Canarian emigrants returned from Venezuela is strong in some insular branches of CC.

Keep in mind it's not just old emigrants returned from Venezuela, but young Venezuelans who migrated to Spain and hold Spanish citizenship. But yeah, I'd dare to say most Venezuelan expats in Spain that pay just a modicum of attention to politics don't have a positive image of Podemos, to say the least.

I know most Venezuelan expats are anti- Chavez and don't have a good opinion of Podemos, despite Pablo Iglesias and others began to take distance from the post-Chávez disaster some time ago. In any case, I was referring to the CC membership in Santa Cruz de Tenerife province. Curious fact: it surfaced the not so young Juan Guaido's father was a taxi driver in Tenerife (maybe he's still there). Anyway, the Canary Islands have close ties to Venezuela due to historical emigration. CC has a presence in the country via Canarian emigrants and their offspring (they can vote in our elections if they hold Spanish citizenship). In the case of Ana Oramas, she's from a family of landowners in Tenerife. I ignore if she has some relatives in Venezuela, as nearly everybody in her province. Another fun fact: the grandmother of the Podemos deputy Alberto Rodríguez (an engineer notorious because of his rastaman appearance, curently secretary for organization) was a humble seamstress who made seam works for the Oramas' family and other wealthy families  elin La Laguna.

There were emigrants from Las Palmas province too (case of Quevedo s family), but their influence is not so strong. Personally I have met several Venezuelans from both sides (a majority here is anti-Chávez, but there are exceptions)

I don't want to derail this thread further, but yes, ties to the Canary Islands in Venezuela are common. My father told me my great-grandmother was from there, but good luck trying to prove that now Tongue

I imagine now that the migration rate has exploded, it's more feasible that you meet pro-Chávez Venezuelans. A few years ago, when primarily wealthier folks migrated, that probably would have been more difficult. In the 2012 election, just before he died, Chávez received just under 7% of the vote from Venezuelans living in the Canary Islands: http://www.cne.gob.ve/resultado_presidencial_2012/r/2/reg_992603.html

Granted, turnout was low (I imagine it's because the only voting center for people in the region is in Tenerife so people from the other islands had to travel there to vote), plus there is the fact that there are few Venezuelans registered to vote abroad, not in minor part because chavismo likes to make it difficult for folks like us to vote.

To tie this to the thread, don't think us Venezuelans abroad are right wingers just because most of us hate Chávez and Maduro with a passion. I know for a fact some of my friends here are quite happy with the PSOE winning, even if they probably aren't exactly thrilled with the Podemos deal. After all, Venezuelan politics is vastly dominated by leftist parties. That said, many, if not most, will cringe at the mere prospect of having people with a history of praising chavismo in the government, and will vote accordingly; which in Spain, clearly means voting for the right wing parties.

To be honest, the two or three Chavistas from Venezuela that I that I have met here were old men. A vast majority of Venezuelans I've seen here, old and young, are anti-Chávez.

It's possible to discuss about Venezuela here in relation to Spanish politics, because it's used as a weapon in our political battles. The Spanish Right in particular is very vocal against Maduro. The mainstream leftist parties don't support Maduro and even Podemos leadership takes some distance from him. Pedro Sánchez went further and recognized Guaido, move criticized by Podemos. I think the main difference is that the left favours dialogue and mediation in Venezuela, while the right supports a more aggresive policy in line with US administration. The attempts of mediation made by former socialist PM Zapatero in Venezuela were heavily criticized by the right.

My personal stance on the Venezuelan crisis is not far from my stance on the Catalan conflict. Third way. Equidistante. Let's sit and talk about the weather Wink

Anyway my father's family is,from La Palma and I had some distant relative in Venezuela whom I never met

UP members in next cabinet, providing second vote is successful

Pablo Iglesias (41): Deputy PM
Irene Montero (31): Equality
Yolanda Díaz (Galicia en Común, aged 41): Labour
Manuel Castells (proposed by ECP,  aged 77): Universities
Alberto Garzón (IU leader, aged 34): Consumer Affairs, including the regulation of gambling
That's *the* Manuel Castells, right? Very influential scholar, love his work.

Sociologist and economist. Berkeley
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« Reply #1341 on: January 06, 2020, 07:46:20 AM »

So, with Garzón as potential minister I would like to ask: was there at any point in the past PCE minister in the government? Maybe in the 30s?
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #1342 on: January 06, 2020, 08:40:56 AM »

So, with Garzón as potential minister I would like to ask: was there at any point in the past PCE minister in the government? Maybe in the 30s?

Yeah you have to go back to September 1936 to find PCE ministers again; after the cabinte reshuffle on the Republican government because of the start of the civil war.

But Garzon will be the first PCE minister during peace time I guess
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Velasco
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« Reply #1343 on: January 06, 2020, 09:29:22 AM »
« Edited: January 07, 2020, 05:32:21 AM by Velasco »

So, with Garzón as potential minister I would like to ask: was there at any point in the past PCE minister in the government? Maybe in the 30s?

Good question. There were PCE ministers in the war cabinets between 1936 and 1939

Vicente Uribe (Agriculture) and Jesús Hernández Tomás (Education and Fine Arts) were appointed ministers in the Largo Caballero cabinet, in September 1936

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicente_Uribe

Quote
After the start of the Spanish Civil War Uribe was appointed Minister of Agriculture in the cabinet of Francisco Largo Caballero on 5 September 1936. For tactical reasons the communists supported small businessmen and peasants (...)

On 15 May 1937 Uribe and Hernández caused the collapse of Largo Caballero's government. The trigger was a disagreement in a cabinet meeting over the May Days violence in Barcelona, which the communists blamed on the Anarchist CNT and FAI and the dissident communist POUM.[13] They demanded that the POUM be banned and its leaders arrested as "fascists".[14] Largo Caballero refused to act, and most of the ministers walked out of the meeting.[13] On 17 May 1937 Manuel Azańa dismissed Largo and named Juan Negrín Prime Minister of Spain.[15] Negrín's government included the socialists Indalecio Prieto (War, Navy and Air) and Julián Zugazagoitia (Interior), the communists Hernández Tomás (Education) and Uribe (Agriculture), the Republicans José Giral (Foreign Affairs) and Bernardo Giner de los Ríos (Public Works), the Basque Manuel de Irujo (Justice) and the Catalan Nationalist Jaume Aiguader (Labor).[16] The Higher War Council was reorganized and consisted of Negrín, Giral, Uribe and Prieto.

n the second Negrín cabinet, formed on 5 April 1938, Uribe was the only communist representative.[ According to (Palmiro) Togliatti, the tactic of withdrawing from the government was to "convince English and French public opinion that the Communists are not interested in the conquest of power, not even in Spain, where we could do so with comparative ease. ... In this way, we shall strengthen Anglo-French ties with the Soviets. If Hitler should decide on war he will have to wage it against the USSR and the Western democracies.[19] Uribe remained Minister of Agriculture until 1 February 1939.

During the Second Republic the PCE was a small party with little support (it won a single seat in 1933 elections). The PCE was a member party of the Popular Front in 1936, winning 13 seats in parliament. With the outbreak of the Civil War, the party's popularity and membership rocketed due to the fact that the USSR was the only effective ally of the republican government (France and UK betrayed Spain in that conflict) and the prestige of the communist combat units. After the war, during Franco's dictatorship,  the Communist Party was the most organized clandestine opposition force.

Regarding Manuel Castells, he's very close to Ada Colau (the Barcelona Mayor). I think he's tecnically an idependent proposed by En Comú Podem. His curriculum as a scholar is impressive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Castells

Quote
Manuel Castells Oliván (born 9 February 1942) is a Spanish sociologist especially associated with research on the information society, communication and globalization.

The 2000–2014 research survey of the Social Sciences Citation Index ranks him as the world's fifth most-cited social science scholar, and the foremost-cited communication scholar.

He was awarded the 2012 Holberg Prize, for having "shaped our understanding of the political dynamics of urban and global economies in the network society." In 2013 he was awarded the Balzan Prize for Sociology.

"Spain’s Socialist Party on high alert ahead of tight investiture vote"

https://elpais.com/elpais/2020/01/06/inenglish/1578298498_582670.html

Quote
A day after Spain’s caretaker Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez lost the first round of a congressional vote to get confirmed in office, alarm bells have gone off in the Socialist Party (PSOE) ahead of a second vote that is expected to be very tight..



  
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« Reply #1344 on: January 07, 2020, 05:24:19 AM »

The closest investiture vote of Spain's democracy

https://elpais.com/elpais/2020/01/07/inenglish/1578384836_555446.html

Quote
Spain is in for a congressional cliffhanger today, as lawmakers assemble for the second round of the investiture vote to confirm the caretaker prime minister, Pedro Sánchez of the Socialist Party (PSOE), in his post.

 Never before in the history of Spanish democracy have the margins been so tight: Sánchez is expected to win by a simple majority of just two more “yes” than “no” votes. His Socialist predecessor José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero was confirmed in office by a lead of 11 votes in 2008, and in 1989 Felipe González won by 12 votes. 

 If Sánchez passes the investiture, he will head the first coalition government since the Second Republic
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bigic
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« Reply #1345 on: January 07, 2020, 08:39:32 AM »

Sanchez has passed the investiture vote by the expected margin.

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Velasco
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« Reply #1346 on: January 07, 2020, 01:37:51 PM »

Pedro Sánchez has succeed at last and Spain gets a new PM. However, given the arithmetic in Congress and the aggressiveness of opposition, he is going to face problems from the start

https://elpais.com/elpais/2020/01/07/inenglish/1578410052_201884.html

Quote
His term in office is likely to come under all kinds of threats, right from the first days. The two-part investiture debate that took place over the weekend and concluded today has only confirmed fears of a highly charged atmosphere in Spain’s lower house of parliament going forward.

Many analysts point that we are at the beginning of a new era of extreme polarization, with the opposition parties challenging the legitimacy of the government and allegations of treason. Likewise the ERC folks are risking being branded traitors by the most radical elements of the independence movement. There is an abyss between the PSOE and ERC on the territorial question, but the horror of the worst version of Spanish nationalism unites them. The foundations of the new coalition government are very fragile, as well the unborn negotiation to find a way out from the Catalan labyrinth. All the players involved will need loads of luck and political intelligence.

Elections in basque Country and Galicia are scheduled in 2020, as well a snap election in Catalonia is likely.
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« Reply #1347 on: January 07, 2020, 02:38:47 PM »

Pedro Sánchez has succeed at last and Spain gets a new PM. However, given the arithmetic in Congress and the aggressiveness of opposition, he is going to face problems from the start

https://elpais.com/elpais/2020/01/07/inenglish/1578410052_201884.html

Quote
His term in office is likely to come under all kinds of threats, right from the first days. The two-part investiture debate that took place over the weekend and concluded today has only confirmed fears of a highly charged atmosphere in Spain’s lower house of parliament going forward.

Many analysts point that we are at the beginning of a new era of extreme polarization, with the opposition parties challenging the legitimacy of the government and allegations of treason. Likewise the ERC folks are risking being branded traitors by the most radical elements of the independence movement. There is an abyss between the PSOE and ERC on the territorial question, but the horror of the worst version of Spanish nationalism unites them. The foundations of the new coalition government are very fragile, as well the unborn negotiation to find a way out from the Catalan labyrinth. All the players involved will need loads of luck and political intelligence.

Elections in basque Country and Galicia are scheduled in 2020, as well a snap election in Catalonia is likely.
Well, elections in Euskadi and Galicia are good news for the PSOE (and the coalition). The right wing presence in the basque country is bleeding. And in the case of Galicia, this community is one of the few that the PP's move to the right decreased the party's support without benefiting Cs nor Vox.

It would be worse for the government in communities like Extremadura/Asturias.
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« Reply #1348 on: January 07, 2020, 03:05:27 PM »

So, with Garzón as potential minister I would like to ask: was there at any point in the past PCE minister in the government? Maybe in the 30s?

Yeah you have to go back to September 1936 to find PCE ministers again; after the cabinte reshuffle on the Republican government because of the start of the civil war.

But Garzon will be the first PCE minister during peace time I guess

Funnily enough, this is the most left-wing government that Spain has seen since 1936, & the most right-wing opposition that Spain has seen since (you guessed it) 1936.

Let's reeeeeally hope that history doesn't repeat itself any further.
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mileslunn
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #1349 on: January 09, 2020, 01:15:00 AM »

When will the budget be brought down as I figure the sooner that is done better the chances of it passing are.  If that fails then doesn't that mean more elections?
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