Spanish elections and politics II: Catalan elections on February 14, 2021
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Velasco
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« Reply #1775 on: September 01, 2020, 04:37:05 PM »
« edited: September 01, 2020, 04:58:25 PM by Velasco »

According to Pedro Sánchez, the minor crisis between the coalition partners over the budget plan is over. Sánchez said that he had a meeting with Pablo Iglesias. On Friday past week UP threatened to vote against any budget agreement between PSOE and Cs

https://english.elpais.com/politics/2020-09-01/spains-prime-minister-plays-down-crisis-with-coalition-partner-over-upcoming-budget.html

Quote
Instead, Iglesias wants Sánchez to reach a deal with his own partners first; he is also demanding for Unidas Podemos representatives to be present at any future talks with Ciudadanos. On Tuesday, Sánchez said that “there has been no Unidas Podemos veto against Ciudadanos.”

“We are going to make a budget that incorporates the governing agreement with Unidas Podemos,” said the prime minister. “The draft budget will be a government agreement, but later we will have to talk to other parties. We will not veto anyone.”  

PSOE and UP are about to restart bilateral talks, with the repeal of the PP's Labour Reform as the main difference between coalition partners. UP wants a total repeal, while the PSOE prefers a partial repeal concerning the most harmful elements of the current labour legislation. Tax increases to the big fortunes and corporations have been postponed, although Sánchez said weeks ago it's needed an incease in revenue and that's only possible through a tax reform.

On the other hand, the appeals to Pablo Casado and the PP for support will be unheard. Pablo Casado will attend a meeting with Pedro Sánchez, but he has made clear his unwillingness to reach deals with the government. Now the pretext is UP, claiming that its presence in the government is an outrage because the Igesias' folks are "communists", "republicans" and "support the independence of Catalonia" (lol). Apparently Casado is not even willing to negotiate the much needed renewal of the General Council of the Judiciary, unless UP is expelled from the government (the actual reason is related to the PP's share of power, that should be diminished based on election results). Both PP and Cs perceive that UP is the weak link of the coalition government and press there. The Arrimadas party is apparently seeking to create inner dissension in the coalition government and arrange a more 'orthodox' budget with the socialists. Seemingly Pablo Casado is still in a dreamlike state, hoping that the failure of the budget negotiations leads to a snap election. Casado rejected the statements made by his former spokeswoman Cayetana Álvarez de Toledo, who advocated a Grand Coalition with the PSOE to defend the Spanish Constitution against evil communists and separatists, However, I suspect Casado would be glad to be the PM with the PSOE as junior partner. The problem is that he needs to win the next general elections. I think there's little concern for the general interest



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Velasco
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« Reply #1776 on: September 03, 2020, 06:26:45 PM »
« Edited: September 04, 2020, 02:10:05 AM by Velasco »

As said in the previous post, PP leader Pablo Casado rejects deals on budget and renewal of institutions

https://english.elpais.com/politics/2020-09-03/pp-chief-rules-out-deals-with-government-on-budget-renewal-of-institutions.html

Quote
Not even the coronavirus pandemic has changed the political dynamics between the two main parties in Spain. The leader of the main opposition Popular Party (PP), Pablo Casado, spent two hours in talks on Wednesday with Socialist Party (PSOE) Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez, only to announce afterwards that his group would not lend the support needed in order to make new appointments in key institutions such as the Constitutional Court and the CGPJ legal watchdog.

Casado said that the PP would not provide the votes needed for such changes while the PSOE continued to govern in a coalition with junior partner Unidas Podemos, the leftist bloc headed by Pablo Iglesias and made up of his Podemos party and the United Left (IU).

In response, the Sánchez government has accused Casado of refusing to recognize the legitimacy of the coalition government. With his actions, Casado is also rejecting the “political truce” that the leader of the center-right Ciudadanos party, Inés Arrimadas, called for on Wednesday after having met with Sánchez. “We will all be judged for our actions during the pandemic,” Arrimadas said after her talks with the prime minister, at which the possibility of her party supporting the upcoming budget plan was a key issue.  

Casado is arguing that he is putting the brakes on the appointments in order to defend the constitutional structure of Spain. This argument is not only fallacious, it reveals contempt for the constitution and a deliberate strategy. Pablo Casado rejects to renew the General Council of the Judiciary or the Constitutional Court in order to preserve their conservative majorities, aiming to use the courts as a political battering ram against the government.

Pedro Sánchez has been meeting with other parliamentary leaders including Inés Arrimadas (Cs), Gabriel Rufián (ERC) and Aitor Esteban (PNV). Arrimadas is open to negotiate, despite she doesn't like the incumbent government

Quote
Casado’s attitude is in contrast to that of Ciudadanos leader Inés Arrimadas, who yesterday confirmed her “firm and real” commitment to negotiate a “moderate, sensible” budget, one that incorporates the financial assistance from the European Union to deal with the coronavirus pandemic and accompanying economic crisis, “and that do not contain ideologies contrary to what this country needs.” She accepted that Unidas Podemos would form part of these talks. “We may make mistakes,” she said of the need for the aforementioned “political truce,” but “we will be able to sleep with a clear conscience,” she concluded.

Sánchez and Rufián agreed to reactivate the bilateral round table between the central government and the Generalitat, arranging a meeting in mid September. This is a prerequisite to negotiate demanded by ERC and accepted by Sánchez. But there is a problem with that meeting, as the imminent rule of the Supreme Court on September 17 could disqualify premier Quim Torra from office. The Catalan premier is accused of disobedience because of the yellow ribbons in support of the jailed politicians that were hanging from the Generalitat balconies during the 2019 election campaign, ignoring the requests of the electoral commission (Junta Electoral). On the other hand, Torra has been never an enthusiast of the round tables with the Sánchez government, arguing that there's little to talk about when the right to self-determination is not recognized. Rufián stressed that ERC is incompatible with Cs, adding that party that "governs with Ayuso in Madrid and Vox in Andalusia" dhould not be compatible with the left. Other parties urge Sánchez to seek the support of those that voted or allowed his investiture, while socialists say they want to seek the broadest support possible.

Related to the pre-electoral tension and the conflict between the Puigdemont supporters (JxCAT) and the reminder of the PDeCAT (heir of CDC), premier Quim Torra made a little cabinet reshuffle sacking three members of the government from the JxCAT side. The most prominent members are Interior minister Miquel Buch (criticized by Torra during the October 2019 riots in Barcelona, only because the regional police tried to do its work and the role of Buch was cleaning the dirty dishes) and the last remaining PDeCAT member, the Enterprises minister Angels Chacón (mentioned as a possible top candidate for the upcoming elections). PDeCAT spokespersons claim this is a "political purge". In any case, this move made by Torra puts back the possibility of calling elections (speculations say the date will be postponed from autumn 2020 to early 2021, because a later date suits better Puigdemont's interests). The imminent rule of the Supreme Court and the likely disqualification of Torra add loads of uncertainty.

In contrast, the political climate in other places is calmer. Alberto Núñez Feijóo (PP) and Íñigo Urkullu (PNV) have been reelected in Galicia and Basque Country by their respective legislative assemblies. Feijóo was elected on a renewed majority, while Urkullu was elected on a renewed PNV-PSE coalition deal. Unlike in 2016, the PSE leader Idoia Mendia is going enter the Basque government this time (maybe as deputy premier)

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Velasco
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« Reply #1777 on: September 08, 2020, 05:21:04 PM »

The prosecutor's office rejects to initiate an overall inquiry on the Podemos financing, but accepts to investigate the contract between the party and Neurona consulting. The complaint filed by the former Podemos lawyer José Manuel Calvente is deemed baseless and motivated by ill will*. The office also criticized thejudge who ordered proceedings preliminary to a trial based on that complaint. However the prosecutor agrees to investigate the contract with Neurona consulting prior to the 2019 campaign, based on a previous report by the Court of Auditors pointing to possible contractual irregularities. A relatively minor issue unrelated to big corruption schemes, in any case. Opening a legal case based solely on rumours and speculations is contrary to democratic principles, on the other hand.

*Calvente was sacked in early 2019 on alleged sexual harassment to a colleague, which was later dismissed by a judge. He was in the Podemos' staff since the very beginning in 2014.

Another judge has lifted the seal on an inquiry affecting the PP

https://english.elpais.com/politics/2020-09-08/spanish-spying-probe-points-at-top-popular-party-ex-officials.html

Quote
A court investigation codenamed Operation Kitchen has become a new time bomb for Spain’s conservative Popular Party (PP).

A judge at Spain’s High Court, the Audiencia Nacional, on Monday lifted the seal on an inquiry into an alleged spying operation designed within the Interior Ministry under the PP government of Mariano Rajoy (2011-2018), and aimed against the party’s own former treasurer Luis Bárcenas.

Bárcenas was a key figure in a long-running scandal involving allegations of illegal corporate donations and under-the-table cash bonuses for top party officials. In early 2013, this newspaper revealed the existence of handwritten ledgers, known as los papeles de Bárcenas, suggesting a parallel bookkeeping system for undeclared party funds. The former treasurer was also found to have millions of euros stashed away in Swiss bank accounts.  

In other news, the PDeCAT representatives in the Congress of Deputies and the Parliament of Catalonia will split from the JxCAT parliamentary groups in order to gain visibility. The party holds 4 seats in each parliament (out of 8 in Congress and out of 34 in the Catalan parliament). Contrary to the JxCAT stance, the PDeCAT is open to negotiate budget support with the Spanish government. The remaining PDeCAT members int eh Caralan parliament could hold the balance of power, but they won't jeopardize the incumbent government. On the other hand, the electoral viability of the pragmatic center-right nationalist parties seems dubious. A recent GAD3 poll released by La Vanguarida points to a pro-independence majority in popular vote, caused by a low turnout among the non-nationalists. The chances of the PDeCAT or the PNC to break into the parliament are slim on paper.



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Velasco
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« Reply #1778 on: September 09, 2020, 03:11:22 AM »


In other news, the PDeCAT representatives in the Congress of Deputies and the Parliament of Catalonia will split from the JxCAT parliamentary groups

 I posted earlier the PDeCAT deputies will split from the JxCAT parliamentary groups,  but that's incorrect.  Apparently the PDeCAT members in the Catalan parliament want to remain in the JxCAT group, but acting independently. As for the PDeCAT representatives in Congress, I forgot that currently JxCAT lacks a parliamentary group there (possibly because JxCAT didn't reach 15% of the vote in all the Catalan provinces contested in general elections). The JxCAT deputies incorporated the so-called Plural group (created to clear the overcrowded Mixed Group) alongside Más País, BNG and Compromís. The composition of the Plural Group stands as follows; 4 JxCAT, 4 PDeCAT, 2 MP, 1 BNG and 1 Compromís
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« Reply #1779 on: September 10, 2020, 11:17:13 AM »
« Edited: September 10, 2020, 11:24:54 AM by Optimistic Democrat »

Today, the government suffered its first major parliamentary defeat over a decree that forced local administrations to turn their surpluses over to the central government if they wanted to have access to a 5 billion euro aid fund. Congress overturned it, with PSOE and UP only managing to convince Teruel Existe's one MP to vote with them.

Mayors from all across the country have voiced their dissatisfaction with the plan, arguing that taking away their surpluses would hamper their ability so satisfy local needs at a moment where they are bigger and more urgent than ever and that it was unfair to deny aid to administrations without surpluses or unwilling to turn them over.

During the last-minute negotiations, the coalition agreed to give administrations that did not turn over their surpluses access to 40% of the funds, but it refused to suspend a rule from the previous PP government that limits the ability of municipalities to produce a deficit; which ended up being the main reason for its defeat. It is only the fourth time since 1979 that a government decree has been overturned.

The Finance Ministry has already announced that after this defeat all municipalities will have access to the aid fund.
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Skye
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« Reply #1780 on: September 12, 2020, 03:15:45 PM »

Oh yeah, I should have mentioned the next CIS poll must not be far away, they tried to poll me a few days ago. Obviously had to decline since I'm not a citizen Tongue
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #1781 on: September 12, 2020, 08:41:00 PM »

Oh yeah, I should have mentioned the next CIS poll must not be far away, they tried to poll me a few days ago. Obviously had to decline since I'm not a citizen Tongue

I assume they could have still had some questions for you? Obviously none relating to politics but at least some along the lines of "What are the 3 biggest problems Spain faces?"
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« Reply #1782 on: September 13, 2020, 05:57:41 AM »

Oh yeah, I should have mentioned the next CIS poll must not be far away, they tried to poll me a few days ago. Obviously had to decline since I'm not a citizen Tongue

I assume they could have still had some questions for you? Obviously none relating to politics but at least some along the lines of "What are the 3 biggest problems Spain faces?"

I thought so as well, but the interviewer specifically told me I had to be a citizen, so...
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Velasco
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« Reply #1783 on: September 13, 2020, 02:09:23 PM »
« Edited: September 13, 2020, 02:13:30 PM by Velasco »

Invymark poll

PSOE 28.6, PP 22.4, Vox 14.5, UP 11.3, Cs 7.3

A majority of the PSOE voters prefers budget deals with Cs, while a majority of UP voters favors ERC

There are rumours pointing to a change of alliances in Madrid. Ousting Ayuso would be a wonderful dream, but I won't believe it's possible until I see it. Ayuso's incompetence in handling the coronavirus crisis in Madrid is not the biggest of the PP's problems. The 'Kitchen' case might bring new surprises. Some people says it's going to be the Rajoy's Watergate
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Velasco
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« Reply #1784 on: September 14, 2020, 09:17:34 AM »
« Edited: September 14, 2020, 09:21:56 AM by Velasco »

NC Report poll released by La Razón for the region of Madrid

PP 39 seats (28 4%)
PSOE 37 seats (27.4%)
Cs 19 seats (14%)
MM 17 seats (13%)
VOX 12 seats (9 4%)
UP 8 seats (5 9%)

Swings: PP +9, UP +1, PSOE n.c, VOX n.c. MM -3, Cs -7

The PP led by Isabel Diaz Ayuso would increase with regard the May 2019 election, which was a historical low for the conservative party in Madrid. However, a GAD3 poll released by ABC four months ago (May 2020) was rewarding 57 seats to the PP. Ciudadanos and Mas Madrid are down with regard May 2019, but they are seemingly recovering ground if we compare NC Report and GAD3 polls. These projections might suggest that the confrontational attitude of Ayuso was initially successful, but the management of the covid ceisis is eroding her party (PP holds healthcare and education departments in the regional government). Deputy premier Ignacio Aguado (Cs) is taking a more cooperative aporoach with the central government, in order to take distance from Ayuso ( it's not asecret the relationship between PP and Cs regional leaders is bad). Mas Madrid was going down in the polls after the last general elections and the departure of Manuela Carmena, but apparently the healthcare spokesperson Monica Garcia is scoring points (it's remarkable the cooperative stance of the municipal spokeswoman Rita Maestre, otoh).

According to the NC Report poll Mas Madrid is the preferred party in the age group between 18 and 29, the PSOE comes first in the age group between 30 and 44 and the PP wins in the age groups above 45

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Former President tack50
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« Reply #1785 on: September 15, 2020, 09:33:04 AM »

Today the Spanish government introduced the "Democratic Memory Act", which seems to be basically an expansion of the "Historic Memory Act" passed by the Zapatero government way back in 2005, involving how to deal with the Franco dictatorship; as well as tying in nicely with moving Franco's grave outside of the "Valle de los Caídos".

This bill will then need to be debated and passed by the Congress, but I imagine its passage is extremely likely as I can't see Catalan/Basque nationalists voting against it.

Some of the main points of the new law seem to be:

> The Valle de los Caídos will be reworked into a sort of museum that will honor the dead people during the Civil War in a less partisan way.

> Exhalting the old Francoist regime will be punished by a fine of up to 150 000€.

> The "Francisco Franco National Foundation", as well as any other associations that publicly support the old fascist regime, are outlawed

> All ideological, partisan or religiously motivated court sentences during the Franco era are considered null and void. This includes all sentences given out by the old "Court for the Repression of Freemasonry and Communism" and the "Public Order Court"

> Digging up the common graves of civil war victims will receive public funding, and a national census of victims and DNA will be created to help people identify their relatives killed during the war

> Some nobility titles given out by the Francoist authorities to civil war generals and what not will be removed

> The infamous francoist torturer "Billy El Niño" will have his medals posthumously taken out from him. This was planned to be done while he was still alive but he recently died.

> School curriculums will be updated to account for this historic memory.


https://www.elespanol.com/espana/20200914/franco-congreso-ley-memoria-democratica-preferido-sanchez/520448613_0.html
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Velasco
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« Reply #1786 on: September 15, 2020, 01:19:48 PM »
« Edited: September 15, 2020, 01:26:17 PM by Velasco »

Yesterday night I watched the news at Canal 24h and heard the retired general Juan Chicharro, chairman of the Francoist foundation, who was interviewed by phone in order to know his opinion of the historical memory draft bill. The man was truly angry and claimed the bill is a liberticide perpetrated by the 'social-communist regime'. Then the news show host asked Mr Chicharro if he thinks there was more freedom under the Franco regime, as well as reminded him that apologists for Nazism are banned in Germany (this was challenged by Chicharro, amazingly). Juan Chicharro will consider to relocate his foundation in a "free country", in case this draft bill goes forward

There's some degree of kinship between Juan Chicharro and the Vox secretary general Javier Ortega Smith. Both are cousins of a female general recently appointed by the incumbent Defence minister of the 'social-communist regime' Margarita Robles

https://www.elmundo.es/loc/famosos/2019/08/31/5d67c594fc6c833c058b4619.html

The Benedictine monks will be expelled from Valle de los Caidos and the descendants of the International Brigades members will be offered Spanish citizenship

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-09-15/spain-drafts-bill-against-remaining-legacy-of-franco-era.html

Quote
The Spanish Cabinet on Tuesday approved a draft bill containing a raft of measures that address the legacy of the civil war (1936-39) and the Francisco Franco regime, which lasted until the dictator’s death in 1975.

The Democratic Memory bill, which builds on existing historical memory legislation, contemplates closing down associations that still glorify the late dictator’s memory, including the Francisco Franco Foundation, which will be declared illegal (...)
 

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« Reply #1787 on: September 16, 2020, 10:04:35 PM »

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« Reply #1788 on: September 17, 2020, 02:18:36 AM »

Today the Spanish government introduced the "Democratic Memory Act", which seems to be basically an expansion of the "Historic Memory Act" passed by the Zapatero government way back in 2005, involving how to deal with the Franco dictatorship; as well as tying in nicely with moving Franco's grave outside of the "Valle de los Caídos".

This bill will then need to be debated and passed by the Congress, but I imagine its passage is extremely likely as I can't see Catalan/Basque nationalists voting against it.

Some of the main points of the new law seem to be:

> The Valle de los Caídos will be reworked into a sort of museum that will honor the dead people during the Civil War in a less partisan way.

> Exhalting the old Francoist regime will be punished by a fine of up to 150 000€.

> The "Francisco Franco National Foundation", as well as any other associations that publicly support the old fascist regime, are outlawed

> All ideological, partisan or religiously motivated court sentences during the Franco era are considered null and void. This includes all sentences given out by the old "Court for the Repression of Freemasonry and Communism" and the "Public Order Court"

> Digging up the common graves of civil war victims will receive public funding, and a national census of victims and DNA will be created to help people identify their relatives killed during the war

> Some nobility titles given out by the Francoist authorities to civil war generals and what not will be removed

> The infamous francoist torturer "Billy El Niño" will have his medals posthumously taken out from him. This was planned to be done while he was still alive but he recently died.

> School curriculums will be updated to account for this historic memory.


https://www.elespanol.com/espana/20200914/franco-congreso-ley-memoria-democratica-preferido-sanchez/520448613_0.html

Glorious news!

Franco's grave had already been moved last year, right?

Will PP / Cs / Vox vote against the bill?
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Velasco
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« Reply #1789 on: September 17, 2020, 05:01:52 AM »
« Edited: September 17, 2020, 05:36:03 AM by Velasco »



Glorious news!

Franco's grave had already been moved last year, right?

Will PP / Cs / Vox vote against the bill?

Yes, the Franco's grave was finally moved from Valle de los Caídos on October 24 past year.

Vox will oppose the draft bill in all likelihood, claiming that this is a revenge of the illegitimate social-communist regime. The attitude of PP and Cs with regard the historical memory is usually ranging between indifference, ambivalence and hostility. I expect that both parties abstain, claiming as usual that we don't need to go back on the past. Their spokespersons are already saying that the government throws up a smokescreen as a distraction from more pressing issues. These parties are uncomfortable for different reasons. Vox is the Francoist party (even though they would reject that label) and a radical right-wing split from the PP; the PP is the big party of the Spanish right with roots in the Francoist regime; Cs is a new party with leaders like Albert Rivera and Inés Arrimadas born in the democratic period that don't care about the past.
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« Reply #1790 on: September 17, 2020, 05:49:16 AM »

So, like I told you a few days ago, the new CIS is out. It, unsurprisingly, shows a strong lead for the PSOE:

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« Reply #1791 on: September 17, 2020, 06:11:53 AM »

I read this thread and I was surprised to find out that Spain is considering banning an organization I am surprised even exists. The Francoist foundation doesn’t sound like a friend of democracy and probably appeals to ultra conservative Catholics and xenophobes.
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« Reply #1792 on: September 17, 2020, 07:21:21 AM »
« Edited: September 17, 2020, 07:53:58 AM by Velasco »

I read this thread and I was surprised to find out that Spain is considering banning an organization I am surprised even exists. The Francoist foundation doesn’t sound like a friend of democracy and probably appeals to ultra conservative Catholics and xenophobes.

You can bet the Francisco Franco National Foundation is not a friend of the democratic regime.

Unlike other countries, Spain is not a "militant democracy". Parties and organizations are not obliged to accept the constitutional regime in order to exist. Elected officials must promise or pledge to observe the Constitution. However, advocating a republican regime instead of the constitutional monarchy or the independence of a region from Spain are permitted. There's a Political Parties Law aimed at "guarantee the functioning of the democratic system". That legislation allows to ban parties that "repeatedly and severely"attempt against the democratic regime, advocate racism and xenophobia, or support violence and the activities of terrorist groups. But this law was passed in order to pave the way to outlaw Herri Batasuna, regarded the political wing of the Basque terrorist group ETA (the law was passed in June 2002 and Herri Batasuna was banned in March 2003).

Until now Spain lacked a legislation that bans organizations advocating the past dictatorial regime. Worse still: the Francoist foundation received public funds from the Aznar administration, while historians comlain because the personal files of Francisco Franco guarded by the foundation are not accessible for researchers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco_National_Foundation

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The Francisco Franco National Foundation[ (Spanish: Fundación Nacional Francisco Franco, FNFF for short[4]) or National Francisco Franco Foundation is a foundation created in 1976[5] which promotes a positive interpretation of the Spanish dictator Francisco Franco. The only child of Franco, Carmen Franco (1926-2017) led the organisation and later became its honorary president.

In 2017 200,000 people signed a petition, calling on the Spanish government to ban the organisation.

In 2018, after new Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez promised that Franco's remains would be removed from the Valley of the Fallen, the Foundation collected a petition with 24,000 signatures to oppose the proposal, with its leader, General Juan Chicharro Ortega, calling the site a "monument to reconciliation".  
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« Reply #1793 on: September 17, 2020, 07:34:07 AM »



Glorious news!

Franco's grave had already been moved last year, right?

Will PP / Cs / Vox vote against the bill?

Yes, the Franco's grave was finally moved from Valle de los Caídos on October 24 past year.

Vox will oppose the draft bill in all likelihood, claiming that this is a revenge of the illegitimate social-communist regime. The attitude of PP and Cs with regard the historical memory is usually ranging between indifference, ambivalence and hostility. I expect that both parties abstain, claiming as usual that we don't need to go back on the past. Their spokespersons are already saying that the government throws up a smokescreen as a distraction from more pressing issues. These parties are uncomfortable for different reasons. Vox is the Francoist party (even though they would reject that label) and a radical right-wing split from the PP; the PP is the big party of the Spanish right with roots in the Francoist regime; Cs is a new party with leaders like Albert Rivera and Inés Arrimadas born in the democratic period that don't care about the past.

Worth noting that when the Congress voted to dig up Franco's grave the result was 172 yes, 164 abstain. It was supported by all parties except PP and Cs (which abstained).

Though this was in 2018, before the elections. I personally think Cs will abstain and Vox will vote against. PP is a wildcard, they can either vote against or abstain.

Back in 2007 the "Historic Memory Law" was passed by PSOE, IU, CiU and PNV as well as the minor parties. PP voted against while ERC abstained because it did not go far enough.

CC and PRC might also be a possibility for abstaining but I think they will vote in favour.
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« Reply #1794 on: September 17, 2020, 07:58:00 AM »


Well I know they have moved to the right, but I would still be surprised if Cs did at least.
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« Reply #1795 on: September 17, 2020, 08:03:57 AM »

CC and PRC might also be a possibility for abstaining but I think they will vote in favour.

Why should they abstain? I find it strange for regionalist parties not to agree with this.
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« Reply #1796 on: September 17, 2020, 08:06:31 AM »

CC and PRC might also be a possibility for abstaining but I think they will vote in favour.

Why should they abstain? I find it strange for regionalist parties not to agree with this.

Well, CC is still a centre-right party at the end of the day so while unlikely it is not inconcievable that they abstain. PRC probably votes in favour though I guess.

Also there are some regionalist parties that are almost certain to abstain or vote no: UPN and Foro Asturias, though they both are little more than PP puppets at this point, especially the latter.
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Battista Minola 1616
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« Reply #1797 on: September 17, 2020, 08:08:04 AM »

CC and PRC might also be a possibility for abstaining but I think they will vote in favour.

Why should they abstain? I find it strange for regionalist parties not to agree with this.

Well, CC is still a centre-right party at the end of the day so while unlikely it is not inconcievable that they abstain. PRC probably votes in favour though I guess.

Also there are some regionalist parties that are almost certain to abstain or vote no: UPN and Foro Asturias, though they both are little more than PP puppets at this point, especially the latter.

Are they (UPN and Foro Asturias) even represented in the Cortes Generales? I have never heard of them.
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Former President tack50
tack50
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« Reply #1798 on: September 17, 2020, 08:23:08 AM »

CC and PRC might also be a possibility for abstaining but I think they will vote in favour.

Why should they abstain? I find it strange for regionalist parties not to agree with this.

Well, CC is still a centre-right party at the end of the day so while unlikely it is not inconcievable that they abstain. PRC probably votes in favour though I guess.

Also there are some regionalist parties that are almost certain to abstain or vote no: UPN and Foro Asturias, though they both are little more than PP puppets at this point, especially the latter.

Are they (UPN and Foro Asturias) even represented in the Cortes Generales? I have never heard of them.

Yeah UPN has 2 seats as "Navarra Suma". I think Foro Asturias also has 1 seat but I am not completely sure, the party was on the verge of extinction or fully merging into PP lately. (and has a rather big internal divide on whether they should evolve into a centre-right regionalist party or should just merge back into PP)
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Battista Minola 1616
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*****
Posts: 11,282
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -1.57

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« Reply #1799 on: September 17, 2020, 08:30:05 AM »

CC and PRC might also be a possibility for abstaining but I think they will vote in favour.

Why should they abstain? I find it strange for regionalist parties not to agree with this.

Well, CC is still a centre-right party at the end of the day so while unlikely it is not inconcievable that they abstain. PRC probably votes in favour though I guess.

Also there are some regionalist parties that are almost certain to abstain or vote no: UPN and Foro Asturias, though they both are little more than PP puppets at this point, especially the latter.

Are they (UPN and Foro Asturias) even represented in the Cortes Generales? I have never heard of them.

Yeah UPN has 2 seats as "Navarra Suma". I think Foro Asturias also has 1 seat but I am not completely sure, the party was on the verge of extinction or fully merging into PP lately. (and has a rather big internal divide on whether they should evolve into a centre-right regionalist party or should just merge back into PP)

Ahhh so UPN is the mythical Navarra +

Are Madrid and the two Castilles the only autonomous communities without any regional parties?
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