Did Tipper and Lieberman hurt Gore with young voters?

[darklordoftech]

Did the Parents Music Resource Center and Lieberman's comments on Marilyn Manson. video games. and wresting hurt Gore with young voters?

[Calthrina950]

I would say so. The NBC News reports on the 2000 presidential campaign, between July and November 2000, have been uploaded to YouTube, and they are very fascinating to watch. In those reports, they discuss Lieberman's criticism of Hollywood and of video games when explaining why Gore chose him as his running mate. Interestingly enough, they didn't mention Tipper Gore's censorship campaign, though they did talk about her staunch pro-choice positions on abortion-which I find to be greatly ironic.

The reports also discussed how younger voters were among the most enthusiastic for Nader's candidacy, and undoubtedly many of them were probably turned off by Lieberman's and Tipper's social moralism. As a side note, there is an episode of the Oprah Winfrey Show from 1990, which can be found on YouTube, in which there was a debate over the music censorship campaign. Tipper Gore (whose husband was in the Senate at the time) appears in that episode defending her side, and she doesn't come across that well, to put it mildly. I found the rebuttals to her by Jello Biafra and Ice-T to be particularly effective.

[darklordoftech]

though they did talk about her staunch pro-choice positions on abortion-which I find to be greatly ironic.

Lieberman was also pro-choice and for LGBT rights. The Religious Right != soccer momism.

The fear of Tipper and Lieberman, combined with Bush saying, “Too often, on social issues, my party has painted an image of America slouching toward Gomorrah”, may have made Bush seem like the less “puritanical” candidate.

[Calthrina950]

though they did talk about her staunch pro-choice positions on abortion-which I find to be greatly ironic.

Lieberman was also pro-choice and for LGBT rights. The Religious Right != soccer momism.

The fear of Tipper and Lieberman, combined with Bush saying, “Too often, on social issues, my party has painted an image of America slouching toward Gomorrah”, may have made Bush seem like the less “puritanical” candidate.

You're right, but it still seemed jarring to me. From the media reports, you would get the impression that Tipper Gore was a liberated, modern woman, not the "moralizing household wife" that she seemed to be as a result of her music censorship campaign. As I said, they did not mention it. But getting back to what I was saying earlier, part of the reason Gore chose Lieberman was because he was trying to distance himself from Clinton, and to demonstrate to American voters that his administration would be a more ethical, less controversial one. Lieberman was one of Clinton's strongest critics in the Senate, even though like all other Democrats he voted to acquit him.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

though they did talk about her staunch pro-choice positions on abortion-which I find to be greatly ironic.

Lieberman was also pro-choice and for LGBT rights. The Religious Right != soccer momism.

The fear of Tipper and Lieberman, combined with Bush saying, “Too often, on social issues, my party has painted an image of America slouching toward Gomorrah”, may have made Bush seem like the less “puritanical” candidate.

You're right, but it still seemed jarring to me. From the media reports, you would get the impression that Tipper Gore was a liberated, modern woman, not the "moralizing household wife" that she seemed to be as a result of her music censorship campaign. As I said, they did not mention it. But getting back to what I was saying earlier, part of the reason Gore chose Lieberman was because he was trying to distance himself from Clinton, and to demonstrate to American voters that his administration would be a more ethical, less controversial one. Lieberman was one of Clinton's strongest critics in the Senate, even though like all other Democrats he voted to acquit him.

I'm not sure who you are attributing that to, but I find the idea of discussing if the nominee's wife is a "liberated, modern woman" or a "moralizing household wife" pretty gross.

[Calthrina950]

though they did talk about her staunch pro-choice positions on abortion-which I find to be greatly ironic.

Lieberman was also pro-choice and for LGBT rights. The Religious Right != soccer momism.

The fear of Tipper and Lieberman, combined with Bush saying, “Too often, on social issues, my party has painted an image of America slouching toward Gomorrah”, may have made Bush seem like the less “puritanical” candidate.

You're right, but it still seemed jarring to me. From the media reports, you would get the impression that Tipper Gore was a liberated, modern woman, not the "moralizing household wife" that she seemed to be as a result of her music censorship campaign. As I said, they did not mention it. But getting back to what I was saying earlier, part of the reason Gore chose Lieberman was because he was trying to distance himself from Clinton, and to demonstrate to American voters that his administration would be a more ethical, less controversial one. Lieberman was one of Clinton's strongest critics in the Senate, even though like all other Democrats he voted to acquit him.

I'm not sure who you are attributing that to, but I find the idea of discussing if the nominee's wife is a "liberated, modern woman" or a "moralizing household wife" pretty gross.

I'm certainly not trying to cast aspersions on Tipper Gore, or anyone else. I'm discussing the contrast between how she was portrayed in the media reports on the 2000 election, and how she came off as in that Oprah Winfrey Show episode. Like I've noted, the media highlighted how she had pushed her husband to become more openly pro-choice on abortion, but said nothing about the PMRC or anything associated with it.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

though they did talk about her staunch pro-choice positions on abortion-which I find to be greatly ironic.

Lieberman was also pro-choice and for LGBT rights. The Religious Right != soccer momism.

The fear of Tipper and Lieberman, combined with Bush saying, “Too often, on social issues, my party has painted an image of America slouching toward Gomorrah”, may have made Bush seem like the less “puritanical” candidate.

You're right, but it still seemed jarring to me. From the media reports, you would get the impression that Tipper Gore was a liberated, modern woman, not the "moralizing household wife" that she seemed to be as a result of her music censorship campaign. As I said, they did not mention it. But getting back to what I was saying earlier, part of the reason Gore chose Lieberman was because he was trying to distance himself from Clinton, and to demonstrate to American voters that his administration would be a more ethical, less controversial one. Lieberman was one of Clinton's strongest critics in the Senate, even though like all other Democrats he voted to acquit him.

I'm not sure who you are attributing that to, but I find the idea of discussing if the nominee's wife is a "liberated, modern woman" or a "moralizing household wife" pretty gross.

I'm certainly not trying to cast aspersions on Tipper Gore, or anyone else. I'm discussing the contrast between how she was portrayed in the media reports on the 2000 election, and how she came off as in that Oprah Winfrey Show episode. Like I've noted, the media highlighted how she had pushed her husband to become more openly pro-choice on abortion, but said nothing about the PMRC or anything associated with it.

I understand. But then why do people sometimes say that Tipper Gore's association with PMRC moved a certain type of young person to Bush if that was not something that got talked about during the campaign?

[Calthrina950]

though they did talk about her staunch pro-choice positions on abortion-which I find to be greatly ironic.

Lieberman was also pro-choice and for LGBT rights. The Religious Right != soccer momism.

The fear of Tipper and Lieberman, combined with Bush saying, “Too often, on social issues, my party has painted an image of America slouching toward Gomorrah”, may have made Bush seem like the less “puritanical” candidate.

You're right, but it still seemed jarring to me. From the media reports, you would get the impression that Tipper Gore was a liberated, modern woman, not the "moralizing household wife" that she seemed to be as a result of her music censorship campaign. As I said, they did not mention it. But getting back to what I was saying earlier, part of the reason Gore chose Lieberman was because he was trying to distance himself from Clinton, and to demonstrate to American voters that his administration would be a more ethical, less controversial one. Lieberman was one of Clinton's strongest critics in the Senate, even though like all other Democrats he voted to acquit him.

I'm not sure who you are attributing that to, but I find the idea of discussing if the nominee's wife is a "liberated, modern woman" or a "moralizing household wife" pretty gross.

I'm certainly not trying to cast aspersions on Tipper Gore, or anyone else. I'm discussing the contrast between how she was portrayed in the media reports on the 2000 election, and how she came off as in that Oprah Winfrey Show episode. Like I've noted, the media highlighted how she had pushed her husband to become more openly pro-choice on abortion, but said nothing about the PMRC or anything associated with it.

I understand. But then why do people sometimes say that Tipper Gore's association with PMRC moved a certain type of young person to Bush if that was not something that got talked about during the campaign?

The media reports I'm referring to are those of NBC News, which are available on YouTube. I don't know if ABC or CBS mentioned the PMRC, though I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. But the media, as I noted above, did talk about Lieberman's comments, and Gore's push to distance himself from Clinton, from a moral perspective, alienated many voters who approved of Clinton's job performance. A considerable number of these people cast their ballots for Nader.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

though they did talk about her staunch pro-choice positions on abortion-which I find to be greatly ironic.

Lieberman was also pro-choice and for LGBT rights. The Religious Right != soccer momism.

The fear of Tipper and Lieberman, combined with Bush saying, “Too often, on social issues, my party has painted an image of America slouching toward Gomorrah”, may have made Bush seem like the less “puritanical” candidate.

You're right, but it still seemed jarring to me. From the media reports, you would get the impression that Tipper Gore was a liberated, modern woman, not the "moralizing household wife" that she seemed to be as a result of her music censorship campaign. As I said, they did not mention it. But getting back to what I was saying earlier, part of the reason Gore chose Lieberman was because he was trying to distance himself from Clinton, and to demonstrate to American voters that his administration would be a more ethical, less controversial one. Lieberman was one of Clinton's strongest critics in the Senate, even though like all other Democrats he voted to acquit him.

I'm not sure who you are attributing that to, but I find the idea of discussing if the nominee's wife is a "liberated, modern woman" or a "moralizing household wife" pretty gross.

I'm certainly not trying to cast aspersions on Tipper Gore, or anyone else. I'm discussing the contrast between how she was portrayed in the media reports on the 2000 election, and how she came off as in that Oprah Winfrey Show episode. Like I've noted, the media highlighted how she had pushed her husband to become more openly pro-choice on abortion, but said nothing about the PMRC or anything associated with it.

I understand. But then why do people sometimes say that Tipper Gore's association with PMRC moved a certain type of young person to Bush if that was not something that got talked about during the campaign?

The media reports I'm referring to are those of NBC News, which are available on YouTube. I don't know if ABC or CBS mentioned the PMRC, though I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't. But the media, as I noted above, did talk about Lieberman's comments, and Gore's push to distance himself from Clinton, from a moral perspective, alienated many voters who approved of Clinton's job performance. A considerable number of these people cast their ballots for Nader.

Ah. I know about the Gore/Lieberman push to distance themselves from certain perceptions about Clinton. And I feel like they misread the electorate and/or they ended up with the wrong message passing.

[Left Wing]

Yes and part of that was that many bands popular among young people endorsed Nader

[Suburbia]

Yes

[Suburbia]

It also bears noting that 1996 and 2000 had the lowest youth turnout since the passage of the 26th Amendment. There was a lot of propaganda embedded in Gen X pop culture to discourage under-thirties from voting at all.

But why?

Were young people simply privileged at the end of the 20th century, or young people did not have anything going for them?

[darklordoftech]

It also bears noting that 1996 and 2000 had the lowest youth turnout since the passage of the 26th Amendment. There was a lot of propaganda embedded in Gen X pop culture to discourage under-thirties from voting at all.

But why?

Were young people simply privileged at the end of the 20th century, or young people did not have anything going for them?

Bill Clinton’s 1996 campaign blamed teenagers for all of society’s problems, and Bob Dole seemed nostalgic for the 1950s. In 2000, the husband of a censor picked another censor as his running mate. In addition to this, there was already anger towards Clinton’s “triangulation”/third way”/“New Democrat”/“neoliberal” policies, income inequality was already on the rise, and Perot and Nader were calling the parties “tweedledee and tweedledum”.

[FriendlyRanger]

As a first time voter in 2000, I was incredibly upset when Gore picked Lieberman to be his running mate. As a history buff, I knew all about the PMRC and how it came to be (Purple Rain came with a lyric sheet, maybe Tipper Gore should have read it before she let her daughter listen to the album) so I already was unhappy about the prospect of the Second Lady becoming First Lady. Joe Lieberman, who was criticizing musicians and video games for school shootings, made Gore look like a clueless, out of touch, Boomer who might not have actually wanted to win. To 18-year-old me, other than a difference in religion, there really wasn't much about Joe Lieberman that was different from Al Gore. While there hadn't been much difference at all between Bill Clinton and Al Gore politically, Bill Clinton had charisma. Al Gore needed a running mate who would electrify his campaign or, at the very least, bring in some constituency that Gore struggled with.

I actually didn't vote for the Democratic ticket that year. I resigned myself to writing in Gore with a running mate I preferred. Most of my friends that could have voted either didn't or voted for Nader.

[darklordoftech]

As a first time voter in 2000, I was incredibly upset when Gore picked Lieberman to be his running mate. As a history buff, I knew all about the PMRC and how it came to be (Purple Rain came with a lyric sheet, maybe Tipper Gore should have read it before she let her daughter listen to the album) so I already was unhappy about the prospect of the Second Lady becoming First Lady. Joe Lieberman, who was criticizing musicians and video games for school shootings, made Gore look like a clueless, out of touch, Boomer who might not have actually wanted to win. To 18-year-old me, other than a difference in religion, there really wasn't much about Joe Lieberman that was different from Al Gore. While there hadn't been much difference at all between Bill Clinton and Al Gore politically, Bill Clinton had charisma. Al Gore needed a running mate who would electrify his campaign or, at the very least, bring in some constituency that Gore struggled with.

I actually didn't vote for the Democratic ticket that year. I resigned myself to writing in Gore with a running mate I preferred. Most of my friends that could have voted either didn't or voted for Nader.

Gore and Lieberman didn’t realize how loyal social conservatives were to the GOP. They thought social conservatives cared about music and video games more than they actually did and didn’t realize how much social conservatives cared about abortion and judges. Lieberman may have also been intended to appeal to Cuban Exiles and Florida Jews.

[FriendlyRanger]

Lieberman may have also been intended to appeal to Cuban Exiles and Florida Jews.

Lieberman may have helped with Cuban exiles- there were plenty of articles from the fall of 2000 about Lieberman's popularity with that group- and Jews in Florida, but if Gore really wanted to win the state of Florida outright, maybe there was a popular sitting Senator from Florida who had previously served as their Governor that could have helped to make a Gore candidacy much stronger statewide. Much as 2016 (at least to me), it seemed like Gore thought he could win with anybody as his running mate.

[One Term Floridian]

So much; frankly unavoidable even without those two since Gore was a pretty stiff dude himself. W was clearly the last appealing Republican nominee for young people, especially in 2000.

Gore shouldn’t have picked Lieberman and doubled down on this anti-youth persona, however. Kerry/Edwards did a much better job appealing to youths and the exit polling tends to show this too.

[Calthrina950]

Lieberman may have also been intended to appeal to Cuban Exiles and Florida Jews.

Lieberman may have helped with Cuban exiles- there were plenty of articles from the fall of 2000 about Lieberman's popularity with that group- and Jews in Florida, but if Gore really wanted to win the state of Florida outright, maybe there was a popular sitting Senator from Florida who had previously served as their Governor that could have helped to make a Gore candidacy much stronger statewide. Much as 2016 (at least to me), it seemed like Gore thought he could win with anybody as his running mate.

You're obviously referring to Bob Graham here. Gore's selection of Lieberman was one of the two most critical mistakes he made during his 2000 campaign. The other was his attempts to distance himself from Clinton (which, as I noted above, Lieberman was intended to help him achieve) and his refusal to allow Clinton to campaign vigorously for him on the campaign trail. If Clinton had been on the stump for Gore, and had Gore emphasized his time with him more, than he would have won at least Arkansas-which would have given him the Presidency without the need for Florida.

[darklordoftech]

It also bears noting that 1996 and 2000 had the lowest youth turnout since the passage of the 26th Amendment. There was a lot of propaganda embedded in Gen X pop culture to discourage under-thirties from voting at all.

But why?

Were young people simply privileged at the end of the 20th century, or young people did not have anything going for them?

There was lots of stuff like this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q3dvbM6Pias

[Obama-Biden Democrat]

So much; frankly unavoidable even without those two since Gore was a pretty stiff dude himself. W was clearly the last appealing Republican nominee for young people, especially in 2000.

Gore shouldn’t have picked Lieberman and doubled down on this anti-youth persona, however. Kerry/Edwards did a much better job appealing to youths and the exit polling tends to show this too.

At least Bush was sort of libertarian on video games and other youth issues. There is a strain of 'boys will be boys' sentiment in the Republican party, while there is a nanny state Karen strain in the Democratic side.

[darklordoftech]

So much; frankly unavoidable even without those two since Gore was a pretty stiff dude himself. W was clearly the last appealing Republican nominee for young people, especially in 2000.

Gore shouldn’t have picked Lieberman and doubled down on this anti-youth persona, however. Kerry/Edwards did a much better job appealing to youths and the exit polling tends to show this too.

At least Bush was sort of libertarian on video games and other youth issues. There is a strain of 'boys will be boys' sentiment in the Republican party, while there is a nanny state Karen strain in the Democratic side.

Apparently Bush used this issue to fundraise from Hollywood executives. https://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/30/us/california-here-bush-comes-a-moderate-on-immigration-and-racial-quotas.html “Appealing to entertainment executives who believe that President Clinton and Mr. Gore unfairly fault Hollywood for violence, Mr. Bush said: ''All of us need to work together to change the culture. One industry alone does not bear all the brunt.''”

[One Term Floridian]

So much; frankly unavoidable even without those two since Gore was a pretty stiff dude himself. W was clearly the last appealing Republican nominee for young people, especially in 2000.

Gore shouldn’t have picked Lieberman and doubled down on this anti-youth persona, however. Kerry/Edwards did a much better job appealing to youths and the exit polling tends to show this too.

At least Bush was sort of libertarian on video games and other youth issues. There is a strain of 'boys will be boys' sentiment in the Republican party, while there is a nanny state Karen strain in the Democratic side.

Apparently Bush used this issue to fundraise from Hollywood executives. https://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/30/us/california-here-bush-comes-a-moderate-on-immigration-and-racial-quotas.html “Appealing to entertainment executives who believe that President Clinton and Mr. Gore unfairly fault Hollywood for violence, Mr. Bush said: ''All of us need to work together to change the culture. One industry alone does not bear all the brunt.''”

Wow what a far cry from today’s muh cancel culture schtick

[darklordoftech]

So much; frankly unavoidable even without those two since Gore was a pretty stiff dude himself. W was clearly the last appealing Republican nominee for young people, especially in 2000.

Gore shouldn’t have picked Lieberman and doubled down on this anti-youth persona, however. Kerry/Edwards did a much better job appealing to youths and the exit polling tends to show this too.

At least Bush was sort of libertarian on video games and other youth issues. There is a strain of 'boys will be boys' sentiment in the Republican party, while there is a nanny state Karen strain in the Democratic side.

Apparently Bush used this issue to fundraise from Hollywood executives. https://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/30/us/california-here-bush-comes-a-moderate-on-immigration-and-racial-quotas.html “Appealing to entertainment executives who believe that President Clinton and Mr. Gore unfairly fault Hollywood for violence, Mr. Bush said: ''All of us need to work together to change the culture. One industry alone does not bear all the brunt.''”

Wow what a far cry from today’s muh cancel culture schtick

Bush ran away from the “culture warriors” in 2000. He even said, “Gays are people too” and “Too often, on social issues, my party has painted an image of America slouching toward Gomorrah”.

[One Term Floridian]

So much; frankly unavoidable even without those two since Gore was a pretty stiff dude himself. W was clearly the last appealing Republican nominee for young people, especially in 2000.

Gore shouldn’t have picked Lieberman and doubled down on this anti-youth persona, however. Kerry/Edwards did a much better job appealing to youths and the exit polling tends to show this too.

At least Bush was sort of libertarian on video games and other youth issues. There is a strain of 'boys will be boys' sentiment in the Republican party, while there is a nanny state Karen strain in the Democratic side.

Apparently Bush used this issue to fundraise from Hollywood executives. https://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/30/us/california-here-bush-comes-a-moderate-on-immigration-and-racial-quotas.html “Appealing to entertainment executives who believe that President Clinton and Mr. Gore unfairly fault Hollywood for violence, Mr. Bush said: ''All of us need to work together to change the culture. One industry alone does not bear all the brunt.''”

Wow what a far cry from today’s muh cancel culture schtick

Bush ran away from the “culture warriors” in 2000. He even said, “Gays are people too” and “Too often, on social issues, my party has painted an image of America slouching toward Gomorrah”.

He really was more above the fray than we probably gave him credit for back in the day. Still a terrible president imo but we could have done worse. And have done worse. Lol

[darklordoftech]

So much; frankly unavoidable even without those two since Gore was a pretty stiff dude himself. W was clearly the last appealing Republican nominee for young people, especially in 2000.

Gore shouldn’t have picked Lieberman and doubled down on this anti-youth persona, however. Kerry/Edwards did a much better job appealing to youths and the exit polling tends to show this too.

At least Bush was sort of libertarian on video games and other youth issues. There is a strain of 'boys will be boys' sentiment in the Republican party, while there is a nanny state Karen strain in the Democratic side.

Apparently Bush used this issue to fundraise from Hollywood executives. https://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/30/us/california-here-bush-comes-a-moderate-on-immigration-and-racial-quotas.html “Appealing to entertainment executives who believe that President Clinton and Mr. Gore unfairly fault Hollywood for violence, Mr. Bush said: ''All of us need to work together to change the culture. One industry alone does not bear all the brunt.''”

Wow what a far cry from today’s muh cancel culture schtick

Bush ran away from the “culture warriors” in 2000. He even said, “Gays are people too” and “Too often, on social issues, my party has painted an image of America slouching toward Gomorrah”.

He really was more above the fray than we probably gave him credit for back in the day. Still a terrible president imo but we could have done worse. And have done worse. Lol

There’s a big difference between 2000 candidate Bush and President Bush 43 (2000 candidate Bush said that same-sex marriage should be left to the states, said that we should stop spying on Arab immigrants, and called nation-building “arrogant”).