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October 27, 2021, 07:44:19 PM

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Pericles
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« Reply #150 on: September 22, 2021, 03:01:52 PM »
« edited: September 22, 2021, 03:18:07 PM by Pericles »

The reason that Maori interests are better protected than say Native Americans isn't just the mere fact of the Treaty, it's that NZ society sees these issues differently and so made a choice from the 1970s on especially to take the Treaty seriously. It's a cultural thing, and it's what works for us but I wouldn't presume that having the exact same system would be great for every other country.

Aotearoa is a separate issue, both Aotearoa and NZ are good names and as long as people can use both that's fine by me, indeed that's what many people already have been doing for a long time.
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Pericles
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« Reply #151 on: September 27, 2021, 04:06:11 AM »

The first public poll since the lockdown has come out. Labour is on 43% (down 7% on the 2020 election), while National's support has not budged from last year on 26% (and fell since the last poll). The ACT Party are the big winners, on 14% (up 6% since 2020). For preferred Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern is on 44% with her closest opponent being ACT Party leader David Seymour on 11%, Judith Collins is on a pathetic 5%. It's no wonder, she has had a terrible few weeks with awful interviews, random personal attacks, failure to press a clear message against the government and as a result leadership speculation that drags the party down further. The only relief for National is that it's not as bad as the result their own pollster leaked a few months ago (Labour 46%, National 21%, ACT 15%). However, Collins has clearly failed, and it now looks likely that once the Auckland lockdown ends, she will be replaced as leader-most likely by former leader Simon Bridges.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/david-seymour-overtakes-judith-collins-in-preferred-pm-rankings-1news-colmar-brunton-poll
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SnowLabrador
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« Reply #152 on: October 03, 2021, 09:11:39 AM »

I heard that New Zealand will open its borders on November 1 to fully vaccinated foreigners, although they'll need to quarantine for 2 weeks still. Honestly, I love Ardern, but this is a big mistake in my opinion. They should only allow people from countries with zero COVID, because one case turns into hundreds before you know it.
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SnowLabrador
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« Reply #153 on: October 03, 2021, 01:18:33 PM »

I heard that New Zealand will open its borders on November 1 to fully vaccinated foreigners, although they'll need to quarantine for 2 weeks still. Honestly, I love Ardern, but this is a big mistake in my opinion. They should only allow people from countries with zero COVID, because one case turns into hundreds before you know it.

Never mind, I misread the article. My bad.
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Pericles
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« Reply #154 on: October 03, 2021, 10:30:47 PM »
« Edited: October 03, 2021, 11:04:34 PM by Pericles »

The elimination strategy has not been successful against Delta, and has now been abandoned. Auckland's lockdown has now been 7 weeks, yet cases are now increasing slightly, so this lockdown will be the longest New Zealand has had. Now, the government is acknowledging that vaccines will have to replace lockdowns as the tool. However, this process will have to be a transition because not enough people are fully vaccinated (79% eligible first dosed, 48% second dosed). There is an ambitious informal target of 90% of the eligible population, but most likely we'll fall just short. Jacinda Ardern therefore announced a three step roadmap for easing restrictions-

1. From Wednesday, outdoor gatherings of groups of no more than 10 people from no more than 2 households will be allowed. Early childhood centres will reopen. Within the social distancing rules, there will be no restrictions on outdoor recreation in Auckland.
2. This step is not dated but will be assessed next week starting from 7 days time. Here, retail and public facilities will reopen and the outdoor gathering limit will be increased to 25.
3. Similarly, this is not dated. Hospitality and close contact businesses will reopen, with a 50 person limit.

Schools are also scheduled to return after school holidays on 18 October with health measures in place. After the three steps, Jacinda has said that vaccine certificates are likely for crowded indoor events and the details of this will be presented next week.

This is just for the largest city. A snap lockdown was imposed on parts of the Waikato region (unfortunately a detailed map of which areas were in lockdown was not available before the lockdown began and it's not been done in a very simple way) yesterday after 2 cases were discovered that are connected to the Auckland outbreak, which is expected to last for 5 days. The rest of New Zealand remains at level 2 of course, with minor social distancing and mask requirements, even areas that have not had any Covid cases in many months because mass gatherings are believed to be too risky with Delta still spreading anywhere in New Zealand. Otherwise though life is pretty normal for us. The worry is that going forward, our ICU capacity is shockingly weak (and somehow decreased in this pandemic), so we will have to be a bit more careful handling Delta even with high vaccination compared to other countries.
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Secretary of State Liberal Hack
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« Reply #155 on: October 03, 2021, 11:39:51 PM »

The elimination strategy has not been successful against Delta, and has now been abandoned. Auckland's lockdown has now been 7 weeks, yet cases are now increasing slightly, so this lockdown will be the longest New Zealand has had. Now, the government is acknowledging that vaccines will have to replace lockdowns as the tool. However, this process will have to be a transition because not enough people are fully vaccinated (79% eligible first dosed, 48% second dosed). There is an ambitious informal target of 90% of the eligible population, but most likely we'll fall just short. Jacinda Ardern therefore announced a three step roadmap for easing restrictions-

1. From Wednesday, outdoor gatherings of groups of no more than 10 people from no more than 2 households will be allowed. Early childhood centres will reopen. Within the social distancing rules, there will be no restrictions on outdoor recreation in Auckland.
2. This step is not dated but will be assessed next week starting from 7 days time. Here, retail and public facilities will reopen and the outdoor gathering limit will be increased to 25.
3. Similarly, this is not dated. Hospitality and close contact businesses will reopen, with a 50 person limit.

Schools are also scheduled to return after school holidays on 18 October with health measures in place. After the three steps, Jacinda has said that vaccine certificates are likely for crowded indoor events and the details of this will be presented next week.

This is just for the largest city. A snap lockdown was imposed on parts of the Waikato region (unfortunately a detailed map of which areas were in lockdown was not available before the lockdown began and it's not been done in a very simple way) yesterday after 2 cases were discovered that are connected to the Auckland outbreak, which is expected to last for 5 days. The rest of New Zealand remains at level 2 of course, with minor social distancing and mask requirements, even areas that have not had any Covid cases in many months because mass gatherings are believed to be too risky with Delta still spreading anywhere in New Zealand. Otherwise though life is pretty normal for us. The worry is that going forward, our ICU capacity is shockingly weak (and somehow decreased in this pandemic), so we will have to be a bit more careful handling Delta even with high vaccination compared to other countries.
Singapore is at 83% fully vaccinated with universal mask-wearing and strict 2 person gathering and dine-in rules but cases still piked to ay 6lmost 2 thousand and we have normalized roughly 6 covid deaths per day.

We've also had to implement a home quarantine system for all asymptomatic cases who's initial bungled roll out led to a lot of problems and us having to clsoe stuff down even more. Good luck the first few weeks after the abdandoment of covid zero is going to be rough and scary.
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #156 on: October 04, 2021, 10:49:01 AM »

Zero Covid is a fantasy even in a country like NZ - who knew?
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Pericles
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« Reply #157 on: October 04, 2021, 02:34:42 PM »

Zero Covid is a fantasy even in a country like NZ - who knew?

A key distinction needs to be made-outbreaks could be eliminated with the old variants but Delta is the game changer, so we can only suppress it to buy time to vaccinate our population.
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« Reply #158 on: October 04, 2021, 04:58:43 PM »

What's the reaction by National/ACT about the abandonment of the elimination strategy?
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Pericles
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« Reply #159 on: October 04, 2021, 05:09:08 PM »

What's the reaction by National/ACT about the abandonment of the elimination strategy?

Every party disliked Jacinda's announcement. National and ACT want clear dates and targets for each step to be activated, rather than the government just weighing up the circumstances and doing what it feels like. So they want a faster easing. The Greens and the Maori Party opposed abandoning elimination and worried about vulnerable communities (though they mean Maori and poorer communities, rather than the elderly), without acknowledging that elimination had been given every chance over the last 7 weeks.
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SnowLabrador
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« Reply #160 on: October 04, 2021, 05:13:23 PM »

What's wrong with keeping everyone in lockdown until herd immunity is reached through vaccination? Ardern has all the power here. F the economy, I care about human lives, dammit!
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Secretary of State Liberal Hack
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« Reply #161 on: October 04, 2021, 07:06:37 PM »

What's wrong with keeping everyone in lockdown until herd immunity is reached through vaccination? Ardern has all the power here. F the economy, I care about human lives, dammit!
The vaccine doesn't work well enough with delta for that to be realstic, Look at singapore with an 85% total population vaccination rate.
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #162 on: October 05, 2021, 09:37:27 AM »

What's wrong with keeping everyone in lockdown until herd immunity is reached through vaccination? Ardern has all the power here. F the economy, I care about human lives, dammit!

Lockdowns have a cost including human lives, same with major economic downturns.

Ultimately its about trade offs.
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Pericles
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« Reply #163 on: October 10, 2021, 10:38:04 PM »

Our vaccine rollout continues to go strong, beating Australia, the US and the EU in the first dose rate (82% of the eligible). This is now the biggest public health message. First doses have risen slightly over the last week because of rising Covid cases and the abandoning of elimination. There is still more time to go, personally I only became eligible on September 1  and so have not had my second dose or had a few weeks after to get full immunity. Sweeping vaccine requirements will now be imposed in the health and education workforces, which sounds sensible.

Meanwhile, over the last week, the lockdown zone expanded to more regions surrounding Auckland, the Waikato will move back to level 2 on Thursday, and Northland will stay there for at least that time. Step 2 and the school reopening in Auckland has been delayed. So far, we are fortunately not in a situation like Australia with many hundreds or thousands of cases, today was 35 and yesterday was 60.
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SnowLabrador
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« Reply #164 on: October 13, 2021, 11:38:16 AM »

I wish I'd had the presence of mind to move to New Zealand before COVID started. Instead I have to live in the worst country in the world, the depraved US of A.
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« Reply #165 on: October 13, 2021, 01:57:06 PM »

The first public poll since the lockdown has come out. Labour is on 43% (down 7% on the 2020 election), while National's support has not budged from last year on 26% (and fell since the last poll). The ACT Party are the big winners, on 14% (up 6% since 2020). For preferred Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern is on 44% with her closest opponent being ACT Party leader David Seymour on 11%, Judith Collins is on a pathetic 5%. It's no wonder, she has had a terrible few weeks with awful interviews, random personal attacks, failure to press a clear message against the government and as a result leadership speculation that drags the party down further. The only relief for National is that it's not as bad as the result their own pollster leaked a few months ago (Labour 46%, National 21%, ACT 15%). However, Collins has clearly failed, and it now looks likely that once the Auckland lockdown ends, she will be replaced as leader-most likely by former leader Simon Bridges.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/david-seymour-overtakes-judith-collins-in-preferred-pm-rankings-1news-colmar-brunton-poll
could act replace nationals?
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Ebowed
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« Reply #166 on: October 13, 2021, 08:11:10 PM »

I wish I'd had the presence of mind to move to New Zealand before COVID started. Instead I have to live in the worst country in the world, the depraved US of A.

New Zealand is very expensive, and depending on your precise metrics, may offer you a lower standard of living compared to the US.  What makes you think the US is anywhere close to the 'worst'?
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SnowLabrador
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« Reply #167 on: October 13, 2021, 08:32:39 PM »

I wish I'd had the presence of mind to move to New Zealand before COVID started. Instead I have to live in the worst country in the world, the depraved US of A.

New Zealand is very expensive, and depending on your precise metrics, may offer you a lower standard of living compared to the US.  What makes you think the US is anywhere close to the 'worst'?

Lack of universal healthcare and the fact that 47% of the country are willing to vote for a genocidal maniac, probably more in 2022.
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #168 on: October 13, 2021, 08:59:14 PM »
« Edited: October 13, 2021, 09:34:20 PM by Хahar 🤔 »

This is a broader question than what I usually pose in threads like this, but Ebowed's comment got me thinking. My impression is that economic opportunities for young people in New Zealand are rather limited, and I know that there is far more migration from New Zealand to Australia than the reverse. I'm sure that the right to live and work in Australia is very important to New Zealanders, but I'm curious whether youth emigration is a major political issue in New Zealand, and if so who has plans to address it and how. One would think that this might be fertile territory for a party like ACT, but on the other hand the policies with which ACT is associated don't seem to have done much to solve this problem in the '80s and '90s.
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« Reply #169 on: October 13, 2021, 09:10:07 PM »

I wish I'd had the presence of mind to move to New Zealand before COVID started. Instead I have to live in the worst country in the world, the depraved US of A.

New Zealand is very expensive, and depending on your precise metrics, may offer you a lower standard of living compared to the US.  What makes you think the US is anywhere close to the 'worst'?

Lack of universal healthcare and the fact that 47% of the country are willing to vote for a genocidal maniac, probably more in 2022.

Anyone who objectively thinks that the United States is the 'worst' (or even a 'bad') country to live in is either incredibly ignorant or has absolutely no perspective on global politics and world history. These are the same people who virtue signal and grandstand about 'diversity' and 'inclusion' yet oddly only talk about moving to majority white countries. In other words, no skin in the game, no courage, just empty words based on half truths and cliches.  

To our Aus poster above, don't waste your time.
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Pericles
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« Reply #170 on: October 13, 2021, 10:47:21 PM »

The first public poll since the lockdown has come out. Labour is on 43% (down 7% on the 2020 election), while National's support has not budged from last year on 26% (and fell since the last poll). The ACT Party are the big winners, on 14% (up 6% since 2020). For preferred Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern is on 44% with her closest opponent being ACT Party leader David Seymour on 11%, Judith Collins is on a pathetic 5%. It's no wonder, she has had a terrible few weeks with awful interviews, random personal attacks, failure to press a clear message against the government and as a result leadership speculation that drags the party down further. The only relief for National is that it's not as bad as the result their own pollster leaked a few months ago (Labour 46%, National 21%, ACT 15%). However, Collins has clearly failed, and it now looks likely that once the Auckland lockdown ends, she will be replaced as leader-most likely by former leader Simon Bridges.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/david-seymour-overtakes-judith-collins-in-preferred-pm-rankings-1news-colmar-brunton-poll
could act replace nationals?

I doubt it, the major parties have done badly before but the two-party system is strong. ACT is primarily rising because of National's problems, when they get their act together ACT's support will shrink. Plus, ACT hasn't been properly scrutinised, they can say whatever they want now without regard to the centre voters.

I believe New Zealand's housing market is one of the most expensive in the world, and sadly while I'd hoped that growth would at least slow this year there are no signs of that. I'm happy living here and we're a great country but you're kidding yourself if you think we're perfect.

In some good news, I got my second dose of the Pfizer vaccine today. It's a relief to have immunity and I'm looking forward to us opening up to the world next year.
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SnowLabrador
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« Reply #171 on: October 14, 2021, 05:26:14 AM »

Congratulations on your second dose, but I really don't think New Zealand should open to Americans ever again. My country is depraved, and there's a solid floor of 30% that won't get the vaccine no matter what.
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Sen. Ted Budd
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« Reply #172 on: October 14, 2021, 08:17:12 AM »

What's wrong with keeping everyone in lockdown until herd immunity is reached through vaccination? Ardern has all the power here. F the economy, I care about human lives, dammit!

The economy affects human lives.
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #173 on: October 14, 2021, 09:34:07 AM »

What's wrong with keeping everyone in lockdown until herd immunity is reached through vaccination? Ardern has all the power here. F the economy, I care about human lives, dammit!

The economy affects human lives.

A comment of yours that will draw forth widespread agreement! It was bound to happen eventually Smiley
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« Reply #174 on: October 15, 2021, 04:49:38 PM »

Congratulations on your second dose, but I really don't think New Zealand should open to Americans ever again. My country is depraved, and there's a solid floor of 30% that won't get the vaccine no matter what.

That number is much higher than that. Republicans make up about 45% of the country. 100% of Republicans will never get vaccinated for COVID.
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