Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread

[Higgins]

And then 1980 happened.

Reagan had been steadily building a support base for 16 years by that point. He had already made a name for himself back in '64, beat Pat Brown in a landslide in '66, could've been nominated for President in '68, came within a hair's breadth of being nominated in '76, and in '80 was facing off against a President who had no political support (whereas Trump has support among Republicans), who was seen as weak due to the Iran debacle, who was seen as not helping the worst economy since the Great Depression (whereas the economy now is nowhere like 1980 or 2008). People were not afraid of "conservatives" in 1980 as people still are of the word Socialism. Nixon, despite the failed second term, showed that America was a lot more conservative than they realized as did the backlash to civil rights in the 60s.

Reagan also had amazing charisma which inspired people who would normally never vote Republican to vote for him. He had also a country which at that point had truly been in a malaise for almost 20 years and had lost faith in itself and was in a deep funk. Reagan offered, with a smile and simple language, a bright optimistic vision of the future. He was a simple man, plainspoken different from the technocrats who had governed since LBJ; he spoke to a nation that truly had felt crushed morally. We're nowhere near the level of funk America was in 1979-1980. Bernie also does not offer "a shining city on a hill" or hope; he does not offer things that can transcend age barriers or a shining vision of the future. His message is for the young, the college aged, he offers a "revolution."

Bernie is many things, but Ronald Reagan he is not. I truly believe he is more akin to a Democratic Ron Paul.

[Rookie Yinzer]

The last ten years of Sanders' tax returns will be released on the fifteenth; Sanders challenges Trump to do the same:

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1113949481429544960

What a leader! Can't wait to call this man our next President.

They’re not coming on the 15th. You all can quote this.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

And then 1980 happened.

Reagan had been steadily building a support base for 16 years by that point. He had already made a name for himself back in '64, beat Pat Brown in a landslide in '66, could've been nominated for President in '68, came within a hair's breadth of being nominated in '76, and in '80 was facing off against a President who had no political support (whereas Trump has support among Republicans), who was seen as weak due to the Iran debacle, who was seen as not helping the worst economy since the Great Depression (whereas the economy now is nowhere like 1980 or 2008). People were not afraid of "conservatives" in 1980 as people still are of the word Socialism. Nixon, despite the failed second term, showed that America was a lot more conservative than they realized as did the backlash to civil rights in the 60s.

Reagan also had amazing charisma which inspired people who would normally never vote Republican to vote for him. He had also a country which at that point had truly been in a malaise for almost 20 years and had lost faith in itself and was in a deep funk. Reagan offered, with a smile and simple language, a bright optimistic vision of the future. He was a simple man, plainspoken different from the technocrats who had governed since LBJ; he spoke to a nation that truly had felt crushed morally. We're nowhere near the level of funk America was in 1979-1980. Bernie also does not offer "a shining city on a hill" or hope; he does not offer things that can transcend age barriers or a shining vision of the future. His message is for the young, the college aged, he offers a "revolution."

Bernie is many things, but Ronald Reagan he is not. I truly believe he is more akin to a Democratic Ron Paul.

I agree with this, as a whole.

[Landslide Lyndon]

And then 1980 happened.

Reagan had been steadily building a support base for 16 years by that point. He had already made a name for himself back in '64, beat Pat Brown in a landslide in '66, could've been nominated for President in '68, came within a hair's breadth of being nominated in '76, and in '80 was facing off against a President who had no political support (whereas Trump has support among Republicans), who was seen as weak due to the Iran debacle, who was seen as not helping the worst economy since the Great Depression (whereas the economy now is nowhere like 1980 or 2008). People were not afraid of "conservatives" in 1980 as people still are of the word Socialism. Nixon, despite the failed second term, showed that America was a lot more conservative than they realized as did the backlash to civil rights in the 60s.

Reagan also had amazing charisma which inspired people who would normally never vote Republican to vote for him. He had also a country which at that point had truly been in a malaise for almost 20 years and had lost faith in itself and was in a deep funk. Reagan offered, with a smile and simple language, a bright optimistic vision of the future. He was a simple man, plainspoken different from the technocrats who had governed since LBJ; he spoke to a nation that truly had felt crushed morally. We're nowhere near the level of funk America was in 1979-1980. Bernie also does not offer "a shining city on a hill" or hope; he does not offer things that can transcend age barriers or a shining vision of the future. His message is for the young, the college aged, he offers a "revolution."

Bernie is many things, but Ronald Reagan he is not. I truly believe he is more akin to a Democratic Ron Paul.

I agree with this, as a whole.

[Zaybay]

snip

I actually disagree with this take for one key reason, its written with foresight in mind. Now normally, in politics, its rather helpful to have foresight, as it allows us to see trends, make predictions, etc. But when it comes to history, foresight can be a rather ugly problem, as it can lead to historical revisionism.

Reagan had been steadily building a support base for 16 years by that point. He had already made a name for himself back in '64, beat Pat Brown in a landslide in '66, could've been nominated for President in '68, came within a hair's breadth of being nominated in '76, and in '80 was facing off against a President who had no political support (whereas Trump has support among Republicans), who was seen as weak due to the Iran debacle, who was seen as not helping the worst economy since the Great Depression (whereas the economy now is nowhere like 1980 or 2008).

To start with, this section of the first paragraph, used to show how Reagan had climbed to the top and had a relatively easy time winning the presidency. From the year 2019, we can, of course, see this to be true. But this was not the case in 1979(the practical equivalent of 2019 in this case). The Iran Hostage Crisis had not occurred yet, the economy was still chugging along rather well(not good, but well, the recession would occur from late 1979 to 1981), and Jimmy Carter held a rather meandering 44-47% approval rating, which is actually less than what President Trump is boasting right now.

Meanwhile, while Reagan was considered a rather charming figure, he was mostly considered a fringe candidate, a lunatic with radical ideas, and a figure who's charm was predicted to last only a couple of minutes before you figured out what was wrong with his ideas. He had not even been able to defeat Ford, a man who had never even been elected! Sure, again, we can see that this was not the case, and how great of an orator he was and how he was able to change politics, but remember, this is from the perspective of 1979, before everything came crashing down for Carter and before everything rose for Reagan.

Sidenote: There is also another way to list all of those presidential primaries that you call a "building of support". A loser candidate who always runs and never wins, because in 1979, Reagan would have been just that. The man who couldnt even win a presidential primary.

People were not afraid of "conservatives" in 1980 as people still are of the word Socialism. Nixon, despite the failed second term, showed that America was a lot more conservative than they realized as did the backlash to civil rights in the 60s.

This part is actually true, people were not afraid of Conservatives in the 1980s as people, compared to people afraid of Socialism today.

Reagan also had amazing charisma which inspired people who would normally never vote Republican to vote for him. He had also a country which at that point had truly been in a malaise for almost 20 years and had lost faith in itself and was in a deep funk. Reagan offered, with a smile and simple language, a bright optimistic vision of the future. He was a simple man, plainspoken different from the technocrats who had governed since LBJ; he spoke to a nation that truly had felt crushed morally. We're nowhere near the level of funk America was in 1979-1980. Bernie also does not offer "a shining city on a hill" or hope; he does not offer things that can transcend age barriers or a shining vision of the future. His message is for the young, the college aged, he offers a "revolution."

This is extreme historical revisionism, and sounds more like I stumbled into the Reagan fan club than read a piece of actual historical analysis. Remember, if we are talking about Reagan and making a fair comparison to Sanders, then we have to take the Reagan of 1979, not the Reagan of 1984. The only thing true about this at the time would be the fact that the man had charisma and a rabid following, but besides that, nothing else is really true. He was viewed as too radical to win over voters, the country had not descended into a "funk" yet, and he was viewed more as a rich Hollywood actor than as a "simple man".

Bernie is many things, but Ronald Reagan he is not. I truly believe he is more akin to a Democratic Ron Paul.

I am not arguing whether or not Sanders will be a Ron Paul or not. Afterall, he is not even the D nominee for 2020, and we have no idea how a presidency with Sanders would look like.

Looking at the original point made by Let Dogs survive, they are completely right. It wasnt until the 1980 election that Reagan won where his image shifted. If anything shows respect for the historical era, its this right here.

I cant be the only Republican who feels  Reagan is the best asset the Democrats have. He's basically a literal cartoon of everything  Republicans have been accused of being for the past 50-60 years.

and then 1980 happened.

[Beet]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

His haters are far worse. See Landslide Lyndon, James Monroe and this moron:
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1114548923601965057?s=19

The only terrible Bernie supporter is jfern so as awful as he is the anti-Bernie people are still way more numerically.

[Beet]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

His haters are far worse. See Landslide Lyndon, James Monroe and this moron:
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1114548923601965057?s=19

The only terrible Bernie supporter is jfern so as awful as he is the anti-Bernie people are still way more numerically.

https://twitter.com/tweetingyarnie/status/1114647333944401922?s=12

They will vote to "destroy" the Democratic Party if they feel slighted in any way. Which we know from 3 years ago means pretty much anything.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

His haters are far worse. See Landslide Lyndon, James Monroe and this moron:
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1114548923601965057?s=19

The only terrible Bernie supporter is jfern so as awful as he is the anti-Bernie people are still way more numerically.

https://twitter.com/tweetingyarnie/status/1114647333944401922?s=12

They will vote to "destroy" the Democratic Party if they feel slighted in any way. Which we know from 3 years ago means pretty much anything.

You post some people with Bernie derangement syndrome as if it helps your point.  Funny enough even Peter Daou realized it was the Hillary people who were more nuts.

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/1111399806092472321

[GoTfan]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

Can't be much of a progressive if you'll support Biden over Sanders.

[Heebie Jeebie]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

Can't be much of a progressive if you'll support Biden over Sanders.

Not necessarily so. I consider myself more ideologically aligned with Sanders but I think Biden would be more effective as both a candidate and a president. That's not inconsistent.

[Landslide Lyndon]

The only terrible Bernie supporter is jfern so as awful as he is the anti-Bernie people are still way more numerically.

Hahahahaha!!!

No.

[James Monroe]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

His haters are far worse. See Landslide Lyndon, James Monroe and this moron:
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1114548923601965057?s=19

The only terrible Bernie supporter is jfern so as awful as he is the anti-Bernie people are still way more numerically.

Michael Tracey is a Russian bot whose wants to dismantle the Resistance movement. No way in shape or form does he have anything in common with me or Lyndon.

[Matty]

https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/1114971900269219841

[Dr. Arch]

The whole Democrats are for open borders thing is one of the most over-exaggerated talking points yet.

[OneJ]

The whole Democrats are for open borders thing is one of the most over-exaggerated talking points yet.

[Beet]

The whole Democrats are for open borders thing is one of the most over-exaggerated talking points yet.

[Some of My Best Friends Are Gay]

https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/1114971900269219841

No serious person supports open borders in the first place.


It's just a scare word.

[GoTfan]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

Can't be much of a progressive if you'll support Biden over Sanders.

Not necessarily so. I consider myself more ideologically aligned with Sanders but I think Biden would be more effective as both a candidate and a president. That's not inconsistent.

Considering that Biden is one of the most moderate Democrats that could jump in, It's not a principled stand. It makes you look like  weather vane.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

Can't be much of a progressive if you'll support Biden over Sanders.

Not necessarily so. I consider myself more ideologically aligned with Sanders but I think Biden would be more effective as both a candidate and a president. That's not inconsistent.

Considering that Biden is one of the most moderate Democrats that could jump in, It's not a principled stand. It makes you look like  weather vane.

Get off your high horse. Preferring someone who can get results over someone who is all talk, that's called common logic.  

[Sestak]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

Can't be much of a progressive if you'll support Biden over Sanders.

Not necessarily so. I consider myself more ideologically aligned with Sanders but I think Biden would be more effective as both a candidate and a president. That's not inconsistent.

Considering that Biden is one of the most moderate Democrats that could jump in, It's not a principled stand. It makes you look like  weather vane.

Get off your high horse. Preferring someone who can get results over someone who is all talk, that's called common logic.  

What ‘results’ does Biden even want to get?

[Landslide Lyndon]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

Can't be much of a progressive if you'll support Biden over Sanders.

Not necessarily so. I consider myself more ideologically aligned with Sanders but I think Biden would be more effective as both a candidate and a president. That's not inconsistent.

Considering that Biden is one of the most moderate Democrats that could jump in, It's not a principled stand. It makes you look like  weather vane.

Get off your high horse. Preferring someone who can get results over someone who is all talk, that's called common logic.  

What ‘results’ does Biden even want to get?

I guess we'll see if and when he becomes a candidate.

[Famous Mortimer]

https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/1114971900269219841

No serious person supports open borders in the first place.


It's just a scare word.

Bernie's comments were interesting. A lot of his defenders are saying basically what the people here are saying "NO Democrat is for open borders" implying he has the same open-borders-in-everything-but-name policy that every other Democrat has.

His comments went further than any other Democrat though. Not only did he say he was against open borders, more tellingly, he explained WHY. He said the country would be flooded with poor people if we had open borders.

That is not something that any of Democrat (except maybe Yang) would admit. Every other Democrat thinks that attracting a lot of poor people is good and they would become magically rich once they got here. Other Democrats, in effect, deny they are for open borders but can't really explain why they are against them or they are against them but only because they think having unlimited immigration but making everyone fill out a form doesn't qualify as open borders.

Sanders has said explicitly that unlimited immigration by the global poor would hurt American standards of living. That is not something I can see Biden or Harris or Booker or Gillibrand saying.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/1114971900269219841

No serious person supports open borders in the first place.


It's just a scare word.

Bernie's comments were interesting. A lot of his defenders are saying basically what the people here are saying "NO Democrat is for open borders" implying he has the same open-borders-in-everything-but-name policy that every other Democrat has.

His comments went further than any other Democrat though. Not only did he say he was against open borders, more tellingly, he explained WHY. He said the country would be flooded with poor people if we had open borders.

That is not something that any of Democrat (except maybe Yang) would admit. Every other Democrat thinks that attracting a lot of poor people is good and they would become magically rich once they got here. Other Democrats, in effect, deny they are for open borders but can't really explain why they are against them or they are against them but only because they think having unlimited immigration but making everyone fill out a form doesn't qualify as open borders.

Sanders has said explicitly that unlimited immigration by the global poor would hurt American standards of living. That is not something I can see Biden or Harris or Booker or Gillibrand saying.

Yes. Bernie is honest.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/chairman/246563/million-border.aspx

Forty-two million seekers of citizenship or asylum are watching to determine exactly when and how is the best time to make the move. This suggests that open borders could potentially attract 42 million Latin Americans. A full 5 million who are planning to move in the next 12 months say they are moving to the U.S.

What would happen if American healthcare/social safety net is more similar to countries with the same gdp/capita? In the era of automation? In case of really big and long recession?
None Democrat wants to answer, because the honest answer might be quite similar to Trump's (policy-wise, not rhetorically).

At least Bernie more or less acknowledges it.

[Heebie Jeebie]

I'm sorry, I "agree" with Bernie Sanders on almost everything, but I cannot stand him. The problem is that his supporters are absolutely hideous. At this point I'll even take Joe Biden over him.

Can't be much of a progressive if you'll support Biden over Sanders.

Not necessarily so. I consider myself more ideologically aligned with Sanders but I think Biden would be more effective as both a candidate and a president. That's not inconsistent.

Considering that Biden is one of the most moderate Democrats that could jump in, It's not a principled stand. It makes you look like  weather vane.

Get off your high horse. Preferring someone who can get results over someone who is all talk, that's called common logic.  

What ‘results’ does Biden even want to get?

I'd imagine all the same 'results' every Democrat wants:  expanded health coverage, climate change mitigation, fairer elections, a saner immigration policy, better schools, etc.  In any case, I'm not endorsing Biden.  There are at least six or seven other candidates I'd prefer over him.  I just think he'd be better than Sanders.