Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign megathread

[GeneralMacArthur]

Clicked on this thread thinking people would be discussing Bernie’s new climate plan. I don’t know what I expected.

Well, it's not much of a plan, it's just the same sh**t that's in all the other candidates plans but with far less detail/logistics, with all the spending multiplied by 5 to give him the "bigger number", and a bunch of ludicrous proposals for how to pay for it.

So to get this straight, we're adding $32T (optimistic figure) for single-payer, we're adding $4T for free college, and now we're adding $16T for his "Green New Deal."  So taking Bernie's extremely optimistic numbers, that's at minimum $52T in new spending from just three plans, and it's only August!

His proposals for how to pay for all this are laughably atrocious on their face, but on top of that, he's proposed the same method of financing for multiple different plans.  You can only tax the wealthy so much before you run out of money or run out of wealthy people.  Bernie would need to triple federal revenue to pay for this stuff.

You could eliminate 100% of defense spending and it would only cover about 12% of the cost of Bernie's plans.  If you raised taxes on the 1% to 100% of all income and capital gains, it would pay for about 22% of the cost, assuming none of them leave the country (lol).  If you tripled corporate taxes, it would cover 11%.

But really it's insulting how other candidates like Biden, Buttigieg, Inslee, Delaney can come up with far more detailed and realistic environmental plans -- plans that would actually stand a chance of being implemented -- and get no media attention, but Bernie comes out with essentially a wishlist and the media is all over it.  This is the problem with our politics right now.  The better you would be at actually governing, the less attention you get, because details are boring.

I understand that y'all are like "well money doesn't matter when the future of the world is at stake!" but to make an analogy, let's say you can currently run a 5 minute mile, and Biden et al are saying they want to get it down to a 4:30 or 4:15 mile.  That's really ambitious and close to Olympian times.  But Bernie comes along and says, f*** that, we're running a thirty-second mile.  It's just not physically possible!  But of course then everyone criticizes Biden for not being ambitious enough.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Clicked on this thread thinking people would be discussing Bernie’s new climate plan. I don’t know what I expected.

And I hoped people would discuss his caving on health care but I don't know what I expected.

[James Monroe]

Clicked on this thread thinking people would be discussing Bernie’s new climate plan. I don’t know what I expected.

And I hoped people would discuss his caving on health care but I don't know what I expected.

Cause our King Bernie is free from all criticism. It's the neoliberal cop that is a flip-flopper and hates the working people in the minds of HockeyDude and jfern.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Mother Jones take on Bernie's new climate plan.  It's a short read:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/08/bernie-sanders-gets-a-d-for-his-climate-plan/

[Pyro]

Clicked on this thread thinking people would be discussing Bernie’s new climate plan. I don’t know what I expected.

And I hoped people would discuss his caving on health care but I don't know what I expected.

Debunked, but nice try.

[Pyro]

Mother Jones take on Bernie's new climate plan.  It's a short read:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/08/bernie-sanders-gets-a-d-for-his-climate-plan/

Here's a response to his plan that isn't a weird angry twitter rant:

https://theintercept.com/2019/08/22/bernie-sanders-climate-policy/

[Morning in Atlas]

Clicked on this thread thinking people would be discussing Bernie’s new climate plan. I don’t know what I expected.

And I hoped people would discuss his caving on health care but I don't know what I expected.

Cause our King Bernie is free from all criticism. It's the neoliberal cop that is a flip-flopper and hates the working people in the minds of HockeyDude and jfern.

gr8 lie m8

[James Monroe]

Mother Jones take on Bernie's new climate plan.  It's a short read:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/08/bernie-sanders-gets-a-d-for-his-climate-plan/

Here's a response to his plan that isn't a weird angry twitter rant:

https://theintercept.com/2019/08/22/bernie-sanders-climate-policy/

You are really citing the Bernie rag The Intercept as unbiased news? Of all the news sources you decided to go for the site that employs American traitor Green Greenwald?

[GeneralMacArthur]

Mother Jones take on Bernie's new climate plan.  It's a short read:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/08/bernie-sanders-gets-a-d-for-his-climate-plan/

Here's a response to his plan that isn't a weird angry twitter rant:

https://theintercept.com/2019/08/22/bernie-sanders-climate-policy/

You are really citing the Bernie rag The Intercept as unbiased news? Of all the news sources you decided to go for the site that employs American traitor Green Greenwald?

I actually read the article (hey, I was bored at lunch) and it's literally just a really long rehashing of Bernie's plan with a lot of "this is great, this is so great, isn't this great you guys" fluff to pad the length.

Hilarious that Mother Jones is a "weird angry twitter rant" now (note -- no disagreement with the actual content of the piece).  Is Mother Jones now on the enemies list?

[Wells]

Mother Jones take on Bernie's new climate plan.  It's a short read:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/08/bernie-sanders-gets-a-d-for-his-climate-plan/

POSTSCRIPT: It’s probably worth noting that I haven’t looked at the climate plans from other candidates. So I’m not comparing Sanders to anyone else. For all I know, all the other plans are just as bad.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Mother Jones take on Bernie's new climate plan.  It's a short read:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/08/bernie-sanders-gets-a-d-for-his-climate-plan/

POSTSCRIPT: It’s probably worth noting that I haven’t looked at the climate plans from other candidates. So I’m not comparing Sanders to anyone else. For all I know, all the other plans are just as bad.

So funny thing.  Biden's is https://joebiden.com/climate/.  But if you Google "Joe Biden climate", the first four results are opinion pieces about how Joe Biden either "doesn't have a climate plan", he has a climate plan but it's "crumbling", or his climate plan is a disaster or inferior to other candidates.  The actual climate plan is like the fifth link down.

But Biden's climate plan is excellent and very detailed -- much more so than Bernie's.

Embrace the Kigali Amendment to the Montreal Protocol, adding momentum to curbing hydrofluorocarbons, an especially potent greenhouse gas, which could deliver a 0.5 degree Celsius reduction in global warming by mid-century.

No financing dirty energy. President Biden will ensure the Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC), the Export-Import Bank, and the new U.S. International Development Finance Corporation significantly reduce the carbon footprints of their portfolios. For example, these agencies will be prohibited from any financing for coal-fired power plants so that U.S. finance is no longer a dirtier alternative to the World Bank.

Pursue a global moratorium on offshore drilling in the Arctic and reestablish climate change as a priority for the Arctic Council. The Arctic poses profound national security challenges as its physical make-up changes due to extreme warming in the Arctic region. Yet, the Trump Administration has refused to allow the Arctic Council to even use the words “climate change.” Biden will elevate climate change to the top of the priority list for the Council, and focus on reducing two short-lived but highly potent pollutants, black carbon and methane

With respect to freight: A Biden Administration will pursue projects like a bridge that connects Oregon and Washington State that moves not only trucks but rail transit, and the completion of the CREATE project in Chicago that could cut in half the time it takes vital goods to move through the country.

Guarantee you Bernie's team doesn't know what any of these things are.

[Shadows]

Mother Jones take on Bernie's new climate plan.  It's a short read:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/08/bernie-sanders-gets-a-d-for-his-climate-plan/

POSTSCRIPT: It’s probably worth noting that I haven’t looked at the climate plans from other candidates. So I’m not comparing Sanders to anyone else. For all I know, all the other plans are just as bad.

So funny thing.  Biden's is https://joebiden.com/climate/.  But if you Google "Joe Biden climate", the first four results are opinion pieces about how Joe Biden either "doesn't have a climate plan", he has a climate plan but it's "crumbling", or his climate plan is a disaster or inferior to other candidates.  The actual climate plan is like the fifth link down.

But Biden's climate plan is excellent and very detailed -- much more so than Bernie's.

Embrace the Kigali Amendment to the Montreal Protocol, adding momentum to curbing hydrofluorocarbons, an especially potent greenhouse gas, which could deliver a 0.5 degree Celsius reduction in global warming by mid-century.

No financing dirty energy. President Biden will ensure the Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC), the Export-Import Bank, and the new U.S. International Development Finance Corporation significantly reduce the carbon footprints of their portfolios. For example, these agencies will be prohibited from any financing for coal-fired power plants so that U.S. finance is no longer a dirtier alternative to the World Bank.

Pursue a global moratorium on offshore drilling in the Arctic and reestablish climate change as a priority for the Arctic Council. The Arctic poses profound national security challenges as its physical make-up changes due to extreme warming in the Arctic region. Yet, the Trump Administration has refused to allow the Arctic Council to even use the words “climate change.” Biden will elevate climate change to the top of the priority list for the Council, and focus on reducing two short-lived but highly potent pollutants, black carbon and methane

With respect to freight: A Biden Administration will pursue projects like a bridge that connects Oregon and Washington State that moves not only trucks but rail transit, and the completion of the CREATE project in Chicago that could cut in half the time it takes vital goods to move through the country.

Guarantee you Bernie's team doesn't know what any of these things are.

Joe Biden's plan is crap & F-. The total loss due to climate change will be 40+ T$ as per economists & his 1T$ over 10 years is nowhere near sufficient.

Some of the big ideas of Bernie's plans which aren't properly addressed in Biden's -

School Bus emissions - 407B$ in grants to replace ageing school buses. Bus emissions have 40 different chemicals & air pollutants including carcinogens & school children are exposed to these @ levels 5-15 times higher than others.

Key areas of spend for Sanders -

$40 billion for a climate justice resiliency fund for under-resourced groups like Native Americans, people with disabilities, and the elderly to prepare for climate change

$200 billion for the United Nations Green Climate Fund to help other countries reduce their emissions

$1.52 trillion to deploy renewable energy and $852 billion for energy storage

$526 billion for an underground high-voltage direct current power transmission network

[Shadows]

Sanders also calls for trillions in grants and trade-in incentives to encourage consumers to switch to electric vehicles. He said he would also spend more than $85 billion on a national network of EV charging stations and put trillions toward public transport with a goal of increasing ridership 65 percent by 2030.

Former Vice President Joe Biden released a climate plan in June that — like Sanders' and Inslee's — has a goal of no carbon emissions by midcentury. But Biden has been less detailed about his medium-term targets to get to that goal and has not pledged to phase out coal or curtail fossil fuel production.


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/22/bernie-sanders-2020-climate-change-1471638

His goal is to eliminate US carbon emissions by 2050, a target laid out by scientists with the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. He says he would create millions of jobs and rally the world’s leaders to join forces in the fight against climate change. Sanders’ plan would reach for 100% renewable power for both electricity and transportation, the top two contributors to climate change in the US, by 2030 – aiming for complete decarbonization by 2050. He says he would expand public ownership of power companies and make electricity “virtually free” by 2035.

And while Biden and other candidates have pledged to make the US carbon neutral by 2050, they stop short of aiming for complete decarbonization. Carbon neutrality could allow some emissions, as long as they are offset by pollution cuts elsewhere.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/22/bernie-sanders-climate-change-plan

[Shadows]

The plan opens with Sanders vowing to slash U.S. emissions 71% below 2017 levels by 2030 with 100% renewable electricity and zero-emissions vehicles. He declares war on the fossil fuel industry with proposed bans on fracking, drilling on public lands and all imports and exports of oil and gas, and threatens companies with civil and criminal charges for pollution and obstructing climate action. He pledges $200 billion to help developing countries reduce their own climate pollution by 36% in the next decade.

What stands out first is Sanders’ clear answer to the perennial question of how to pay for it.

There’s the money saved: $1.215 trillion from “scaling back military spending on protecting global oil” and $1.31 trillion from federal and state welfare “due to the creation of millions of good-paying, unionized jobs.”  Then there’s the money earned: $6.4 trillion fromselling electricity produced by the Energy Department’s regional power marketing authorities, $3.085 trillion from “making the fossil fuel industry pay for their pollution, through litigation, fees, and taxes, and eliminating federal fossil fuel subsidies,” $2.3 trillion from income taxes on the 20 million new jobs the plan creates, and an additional $2 trillion from forcing “the wealthy and large corporations pay their fair share.”

The Sanders plan touches on that, too, highlighting that the costs of catastrophic warming could total $70.4 trillion over 80 years. The 13,840-word document includes 85 dollar signs. Sanders sets aside $5.9 billion for regional economic development plans, with the lion’s share ― over $2.5 billion ― earmarked for Appalachia. There’s $15 billion for coal miners’ Black Lung Disability Fund. Another $25 billion goes to clearing the national park maintenance backlog. The restored Civilian Conservation Corps, a New Deal program that planted 3 billion trees in the 1930s, gets $171 billion.  Water factors heavily into the plan. Sanders, who in February introduced the $35 billion WATER Act to overhaul drinking water infrastructure, calls for its passage in the plan as a means of freeing communities from Flint, Michigan, to Newark, New Jersey, of lead and toxic chemical contaminations.

Source - Huffington Post

This is just a fraction of it. Probably most detailed plan released to combat Climate Change in modern history !

[GeneralMacArthur]

Joe Biden's plan is crap & F-. The total loss due to climate change will be 40+ T$ as per economists & his 1T$ over 10 years is nowhere near sufficient.

Why is it better to spend more money?  If you can achieve a better result with less money, that's a good thing!  Bernie and his supporters are addicted to just throwing an infinite amount of money at problems rather than actually trying to find a good solution.  Why not just pay all 7 billion people in the world $100,000 each if they pinky promise to never pollute again?  That would cost 700 trillion dollars, and that is a way bigger number so it must be better than Bernie's plan, right?

School Bus emissions - 407B$ in grants to replace ageing school buses. Bus emissions have 40 different chemicals & air pollutants including carcinogens & school children are exposed to these @ levels 5-15 times higher than others.

School buses are a really specific area that Bernie decided to focus on for some reason rather than diversifying his spending portfolio.  Biden has plans for complete electrificiation of U.S. vehicles, including freight, shipping and public transportation, by year 2050.  Biden wins here because
A)  Electrifying 100% of all vehicles > emissions standards for school buses
B)  Biden proposes a combination of executive orders, regulations, new government bodies and re-use of existing infrastructure to combat the problem, which is far more realistic than Bernie's plan to get the GOP Congress to give him $407B (15x more than Trump's wall) to throw at school buses.

$40 billion for a climate justice resiliency fund for under-resourced groups like Native Americans, people with disabilities, and the elderly to prepare for climate change

This is literally meaningless and just a way for him to check off boxes for "helped disadvantaged group X."

The funny thing is, the Obama administration already had tons of protections for these communities!  Trump rolled them back.  Just rolling them forward would do far more good than throwing $40B at the problem with no plan, and be much cheaper.  But if that wasn't enough for you, look up "IV. STAND UP TO THE ABUSE OF POWER BY POLLUTERS WHO DISPROPORTIONATELY HARM COMMUNITIES OF COLOR AND LOW-INCOME COMMUNITIES" in Biden's plan.

$200 billion for the United Nations Green Climate Fund to help other countries reduce their emissions

Yeah, the UNGCF is the only international body Bernie knows about, so he invented a random number and said, let's throw them that money.  $200 billion!  Sure why not.
In contrast, Biden's plan is chock-full of international bodies and organizations and infrastructure he wants to work with, and lays out how he would build an international symphony to respond on every level to every challenge.  He specifically identifies problems at a very granular level.  At one point, Biden goes region-by-region through the United States identifying major problems affecting that particular region he wants to focus on.  Isn't that way better?

I could keep going.  But I think you get the point.  Bernie wants to just pick out pipe dreams or names and fling arbitrary amounts of money at them.  Not only would this never actually happening (so Bernie would be the do-nothing presidency) but it's an insultingly unintellectual response to the emergency.
Biden, on the other hand, has an extremely in-depth knowledge of the current system and knows exactly which buttons to press, which organizations to work with, which powers to give to what bodies, which executive orders to write, what policy to adapt to which countries, etc. and that's all before he even spends a single dime, because he also proposes tons of responsible new spending to tackle a broad set of challenges!

Yet somehow Biden's plan is a "disaster", an "F-", "crap", "nowhere near sufficient."  One day ten years from now you're gonna look back and cringe at all the things you wrote on Atlas, man.

[Wells]

Mother Jones take on Bernie's new climate plan.  It's a short read:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/08/bernie-sanders-gets-a-d-for-his-climate-plan/

POSTSCRIPT: It’s probably worth noting that I haven’t looked at the climate plans from other candidates. So I’m not comparing Sanders to anyone else. For all I know, all the other plans are just as bad.

So funny thing.  Biden's is https://joebiden.com/climate/.  But if you Google "Joe Biden climate", the first four results are opinion pieces about how Joe Biden either "doesn't have a climate plan", he has a climate plan but it's "crumbling", or his climate plan is a disaster or inferior to other candidates.  The actual climate plan is like the fifth link down.

But Biden's climate plan is excellent and very detailed -- much more so than Bernie's.

Embrace the Kigali Amendment to the Montreal Protocol, adding momentum to curbing hydrofluorocarbons, an especially potent greenhouse gas, which could deliver a 0.5 degree Celsius reduction in global warming by mid-century.

No financing dirty energy. President Biden will ensure the Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC), the Export-Import Bank, and the new U.S. International Development Finance Corporation significantly reduce the carbon footprints of their portfolios. For example, these agencies will be prohibited from any financing for coal-fired power plants so that U.S. finance is no longer a dirtier alternative to the World Bank.

Pursue a global moratorium on offshore drilling in the Arctic and reestablish climate change as a priority for the Arctic Council. The Arctic poses profound national security challenges as its physical make-up changes due to extreme warming in the Arctic region. Yet, the Trump Administration has refused to allow the Arctic Council to even use the words “climate change.” Biden will elevate climate change to the top of the priority list for the Council, and focus on reducing two short-lived but highly potent pollutants, black carbon and methane

With respect to freight: A Biden Administration will pursue projects like a bridge that connects Oregon and Washington State that moves not only trucks but rail transit, and the completion of the CREATE project in Chicago that could cut in half the time it takes vital goods to move through the country.

Guarantee you Bernie's team doesn't know what any of these things are.

Thank you for the response, though I wasn't asking you to tell me a about Biden's plan (or throw a cheap and untrue insult in Bernie's general direction). Perhaps you misunderstood my post, the part in the quote was from the Mother Jones article you linked. It clearly shows that whoever wrote the article isn't very trustworthy when it comes to reviewing climate change plans. I am not ignorant of the plans of other candidates, and I can tell you that Bernie's plan is still better than Biden's.

[Shadows]

Joe Biden's plan is crap & F-. The total loss due to climate change will be 40+ T$ as per economists & his 1T$ over 10 years is nowhere near sufficient.

Why is it better to spend more money?  If you can achieve a better result with less money, that's a good thing!  Bernie and his supporters are addicted to just throwing an infinite amount of money at problems rather than actually trying to find a good solution.  Why not just pay all 7 billion people in the world $100,000 each if they pinky promise to never pollute again?  That would cost 700 trillion dollars, and that is a way bigger number so it must be better than Bernie's plan, right?

School Bus emissions - 407B$ in grants to replace ageing school buses. Bus emissions have 40 different chemicals & air pollutants including carcinogens & school children are exposed to these @ levels 5-15 times higher than others.

School buses are a really specific area that Bernie decided to focus on for some reason rather than diversifying his spending portfolio.  Biden has plans for complete electrificiation of U.S. vehicles, including freight, shipping and public transportation, by year 2050.  Biden wins here because
A)  Electrifying 100% of all vehicles > emissions standards for school buses
B)  Biden proposes a combination of executive orders, regulations, new government bodies and re-use of existing infrastructure to combat the problem, which is far more realistic than Bernie's plan to get the GOP Congress to give him $407B (15x more than Trump's wall) to throw at school buses.

$40 billion for a climate justice resiliency fund for under-resourced groups like Native Americans, people with disabilities, and the elderly to prepare for climate change

This is literally meaningless and just a way for him to check off boxes for "helped disadvantaged group X."

The funny thing is, the Obama administration already had tons of protections for these communities!  Trump rolled them back.  Just rolling them forward would do far more good than throwing $40B at the problem with no plan, and be much cheaper.  But if that wasn't enough for you, look up "IV. STAND UP TO THE ABUSE OF POWER BY POLLUTERS WHO DISPROPORTIONATELY HARM COMMUNITIES OF COLOR AND LOW-INCOME COMMUNITIES" in Biden's plan.

$200 billion for the United Nations Green Climate Fund to help other countries reduce their emissions

Yeah, the UNGCF is the only international body Bernie knows about, so he invented a random number and said, let's throw them that money.  $200 billion!  Sure why not.
In contrast, Biden's plan is chock-full of international bodies and organizations and infrastructure he wants to work with, and lays out how he would build an international symphony to respond on every level to every challenge.  He specifically identifies problems at a very granular level.  At one point, Biden goes region-by-region through the United States identifying major problems affecting that particular region he wants to focus on.  Isn't that way better?

I could keep going.  But I think you get the point.  Bernie wants to just pick out pipe dreams or names and fling arbitrary amounts of money at them.  Not only would this never actually happening (so Bernie would be the do-nothing presidency) but it's an insultingly unintellectual response to the emergency.
Biden, on the other hand, has an extremely in-depth knowledge of the current system and knows exactly which buttons to press, which organizations to work with, which powers to give to what bodies, which executive orders to write, what policy to adapt to which countries, etc. and that's all before he even spends a single dime, because he also proposes tons of responsible new spending to tackle a broad set of challenges!

Yet somehow Biden's plan is a "disaster", an "F-", "crap", "nowhere near sufficient."  One day ten years from now you're gonna look back and cringe at all the things you wrote on Atlas, man.

Do you want me to reply to the ridiculous post? is Joe Biden a magician that he invests 1/10th & gets better results. That is fantasy land kind of crap which people sell & never happen in real life.

Biden's plan has many problems -

1. It doesn't help communities in transition strongly enough - Sanders has put substantial money to help transition, from economic investment to create jobs, pensions for miners, 5 years minimum income guarantee, job training & so on. By contrast Biden's plans is mediocre to weak.

2. Fracking - You can't frack your way & pretend to be for addressing Climate Change. Biden's plan doesn't ban fracking.

3. Decarbonization - The Scientists in the Inter-governmental panel clearly say by 2050 Decarbonization is a must to address Climate Change. Sanders' plan does that & Biden's doesn't.

4. Phasing out Coal - Biden's plan doesn't do that.

5. Curtailing Fossil Fuel Production - Biden's plan doesn't do that.

6. Less Detailed oriented - Biden's plan comes with much less details with no proper mid-term goals & how to get there. In Compared Sanders' plan comes with much more details including short & medium term goals.

7. Modernizing Electric Grid - This will substantially reduce wastages. Sanders' plan proposes 526B$ in modernizing the Electric Grid. Biden's plan doesn't address it in a way that Sanders' does.

8. R&D Investment - Joe Biden's R&D Investment in Clean Energy is a joke & totally insufficient for the massive transition.

In the end I don't expect you to accept that you made ridiculous & asinine statements because of cognitive dissonance. You made an assertion & now to prove yourself right, you will overlook facts & pick & chose what you want to make yourself right. That doesn't change the truth.

Joe Biden's plan continues fracking. It doesn't phase out coal. It doesn't curtail new fossil fuel production.

It doesn't plan to decarbonize. It has insufficient investment in R & D. It doesn't plan for Electric Grid modernization like Sanders would. It doesn't help enough fossil fuel industry worker transition. There are no concrete medium term goals & detail plan to get there. There is no global plan to cut emissions of other countries in the scale that is required.

In short it is a crap plan & anyone who argues otherwise is not based on reality & probably would not respond to logic.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Thank you for the response, though I wasn't asking you to tell me a about Biden's plan (or throw a cheap and untrue insult in Bernie's general direction). Perhaps you misunderstood my post, the part in the quote was from the Mother Jones article you linked. It clearly shows that whoever wrote the article isn't very trustworthy when it comes to reviewing climate change plans. I am not ignorant of the plans of other candidates, and I can tell you that Bernie's plan is still better than Biden's.

I interpreted your post as implying that the other candidates' plans were in fact worse than Bernie's (as was also implied by the author's postscript).  If my interpretation was wrong, I apologize.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Do you want me to reply

no

[Shadows]

This is what other candidates said about Biden's plan. Yang

Your argument is not with me; it’s with science. And unfortunately, your plan is just too late. The science tells us we have to get off coal in 10 years. Your plan does not do that. We have to be off of fossil fuels in 15. Your plan does not do that.

Jay Inslee “We cannot work this out. The time is up! Our house is on fire. We have to stop using coal in 10 years, and we need a president to do it or it won’t get done.”


How does one support coal, fossil fuel, fracking, poor investment in R&D, no plans to modernize the electric grid, insufficient plans to create network for electric cars & 100% Emission free transition & be a leader in climate change.

Biden's plan should be called for what it is - Crap !

[Donerail]

The Bernie plan is great because David Koch read it, and then he died. Did the Biden plan kill a single fossil fuel executive? No? Case closed.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

The Bernie plan is great because David Koch read it, and then he died. Did the Biden plan kill a single fossil fuel executive? No? Case closed.

Silly me, I thought it was basic human decency not to dance on people's graves right after they've died

[Donerail]

The Bernie plan is great because David Koch read it, and then he died. Did the Biden plan kill a single fossil fuel executive? No? Case closed.

Silly me, I thought it was basic human decency not to dance on people's graves right after they've died

That is a very silly opinion, yes.

[Canis]

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Cranky-Bernie-Sanders-San-Francisco-Johns-Grill-14378921.php

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/Cranky-Bernie-Sanders-San-Francisco-Johns-Grill-14378921.php

I miss the days when the SF Chronicle was allowed to call Kamala Harris a crony.