Crisis in Venezuela

[JA]

If the Venezuelan military backs Maduro, how long before the neocon commentariat starts murmuring about "direct intervention" and such?

The Venezuelan military has already publicly expressed their unwavering support for Maduro recently. An internal coup using their armed forces is out of the question. An invasion and/or tactical and military support to a “revolutionary” opposition that takes to the streets is all that’s left.

[OSR stands with Israel]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

[Badger]

If Maduro falls then a lot of leftist parties in Europe will start getting nervous considering he has funneled a lot of money to them through legally questionable channels.

cite?

[JA]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

As stated in your own article, President Maduro didn’t directly ban any parties from participating. The National Constituent Assembly designed those limitations on participation in the election; not Maduro. The opposition doesn’t like the National Constituent Assembly, but it was voted upon by the Venezuelan people and holds no less legitimacy than any other elected body. They created the rules, so talk to the Assembly about that, not Maduro.

[Badger]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup.

Trump is awful. Bolsonaro is awful. Maduro is awful.

Pretty simple and not contradictory.

[Badger]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

As stated in your own article, President Maduro didn’t directly ban any parties from participating. The National Constituent Assembly designed those limitations on participation in the election; not Maduro. The opposition doesn’t like the National Constituent Assembly, but it was voted upon by the Venezuelan people and holds no less legitimacy than any other elected body. They created the rules, so talk to the Assembly about that, not Maduro.

Yes, I'm sure Maduro was shocked--shocked I tell you!--that the opposition was denied the opportunity to run against him.

[JA]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

As stated in your own article, President Maduro didn’t directly ban any parties from participating. The National Constituent Assembly designed those limitations on participation in the election; not Maduro. The opposition doesn’t like the National Constituent Assembly, but it was voted upon by the Venezuelan people and holds no less legitimacy than any other elected body. They created the rules, so talk to the Assembly about that, not Maduro.

Yes, I'm sure Maduro was shocked--shocked I tell you!--that the opposition was denied the opportunity to run against him.

I never suggested that he was shocked. I’m also sure that he wasn’t the least bit upset by it either. I’m not here to claim that Venezuela is some shining example of democracy or that Maduro isn’t a habitual violator of civil rights and that his government is corrupt beyond belief. All of that’s true.

However...

1. 1,500 international observers reported that the May ‘18 elections were reasonably democratic.

2. Much, if not most, of the suffering being experienced by Venezuelans is attributable to the retaliatory economic measures designed to pressure the Maduro government into subordinating itself to the wishes of international capital (as reinforced by the American state). The sanctions and embargoes imposed upon Venezuela have helped to cripple and starve it, along with the concerted effort by private food producers and distributors who have a vested interest in applying pressure to the Maduro regime by starving the Venezuelan people. For example, theBank of England isn’t wanting to return the $1.2bn worth of gold Venezuela placed into it as part of a guarantee on a loan from Germany to purchase food from Turkey to feed its people being starved by sanctions. US/UK are deliberately blocking the ability for Venezuela to import food to feed its people, hoping that the hungry masses will rise up against Maduro.

3. While not every dictatorship or authoritarian regime should be tolerated, the Maduro government is hardly among the worst present in our world. America’s prioritization of Venezuela, beginning with Chavez and his Bolivarian Revolution (which has fallen apart under Maduro’s failed leadership), is rightfully suspicious considering Venezuela is far from unique, far from the worst existing today, that we have allies who’re considerably worse to their people, and, of course, that Venezuela just happens to possess the world’s largest proven oil reserves.

[OSR stands with Israel]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

As stated in your own article, President Maduro didn’t directly ban any parties from participating. The National Constituent Assembly designed those limitations on participation in the election; not Maduro. The opposition doesn’t like the National Constituent Assembly, but it was voted upon by the Venezuelan people and holds no less legitimacy than any other elected body. They created the rules, so talk to the Assembly about that, not Maduro.

Yes, I'm sure Maduro was shocked--shocked I tell you!--that the opposition was denied the opportunity to run against him.

I never suggested that he was shocked. I’m also sure that he wasn’t the least bit upset by it either. I’m not here to claim that Venezuela is some shining example of democracy or that Maduro isn’t a habitual violator of civil rights and that his government is corrupt beyond belief. All of that’s true.

However...

1. 1,500 international observers reported that the May ‘18 elections were reasonably democratic.

2. Much, if not most, of the suffering being experienced by Venezuelans is attributable to the retaliatory economic measures designed to pressure the Maduro government into subordinating itself to the wishes of international capital (as reinforced by the American state). The sanctions and embargoes imposed upon Venezuela have helped to cripple and starve it, along with the concerted effort by private food producers and distributors who have a vested interest in applying pressure to the Maduro regime by starving the Venezuelan people. For example, theBank of England isn’t wanting to return the $1.2bn worth of gold Venezuela placed into it as part of a guarantee on a loan from Germany to purchase food from Turkey to feed its people being starved by sanctions. US/UK are deliberately blocking the ability for Venezuela to import food to feed its people, hoping that the hungry masses will rise up against Maduro.

3. While not every dictatorship or authoritarian regime should be tolerated, the Maduro government is hardly among the worst present in our world. America’s prioritization of Venezuela, beginning with Chavez and his Bolivarian Revolution (which has fallen apart under Maduro’s failed leadership), is rightfully suspicious considering Venezuela is far from unique, far from the worst existing today, that we have allies who’re considerably worse to their people, and, of course, that Venezuela just happens to possess the world’s largest proven oil reserves.

Its just not America though ,  it’s canada as well and most countries in South America

[JA]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

As stated in your own article, President Maduro didn’t directly ban any parties from participating. The National Constituent Assembly designed those limitations on participation in the election; not Maduro. The opposition doesn’t like the National Constituent Assembly, but it was voted upon by the Venezuelan people and holds no less legitimacy than any other elected body. They created the rules, so talk to the Assembly about that, not Maduro.

Yes, I'm sure Maduro was shocked--shocked I tell you!--that the opposition was denied the opportunity to run against him.

I never suggested that he was shocked. I’m also sure that he wasn’t the least bit upset by it either. I’m not here to claim that Venezuela is some shining example of democracy or that Maduro isn’t a habitual violator of civil rights and that his government is corrupt beyond belief. All of that’s true.

However...

1. 1,500 international observers reported that the May ‘18 elections were reasonably democratic.

2. Much, if not most, of the suffering being experienced by Venezuelans is attributable to the retaliatory economic measures designed to pressure the Maduro government into subordinating itself to the wishes of international capital (as reinforced by the American state). The sanctions and embargoes imposed upon Venezuela have helped to cripple and starve it, along with the concerted effort by private food producers and distributors who have a vested interest in applying pressure to the Maduro regime by starving the Venezuelan people. For example, theBank of England isn’t wanting to return the $1.2bn worth of gold Venezuela placed into it as part of a guarantee on a loan from Germany to purchase food from Turkey to feed its people being starved by sanctions. US/UK are deliberately blocking the ability for Venezuela to import food to feed its people, hoping that the hungry masses will rise up against Maduro.

3. While not every dictatorship or authoritarian regime should be tolerated, the Maduro government is hardly among the worst present in our world. America’s prioritization of Venezuela, beginning with Chavez and his Bolivarian Revolution (which has fallen apart under Maduro’s failed leadership), is rightfully suspicious considering Venezuela is far from unique, far from the worst existing today, that we have allies who’re considerably worse to their people, and, of course, that Venezuela just happens to possess the world’s largest proven oil reserves.

Its just not America though

So? Do you really think I’m aiming this solely at America?

[Coastal Elitist]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

As stated in your own article, President Maduro didn’t directly ban any parties from participating. The National Constituent Assembly designed those limitations on participation in the election; not Maduro. The opposition doesn’t like the National Constituent Assembly, but it was voted upon by the Venezuelan people and holds no less legitimacy than any other elected body. They created the rules, so talk to the Assembly about that, not Maduro.

Yes, I'm sure Maduro was shocked--shocked I tell you!--that the opposition was denied the opportunity to run against him.

I never suggested that he was shocked. I’m also sure that he wasn’t the least bit upset by it either. I’m not here to claim that Venezuela is some shining example of democracy or that Maduro isn’t a habitual violator of civil rights and that his government is corrupt beyond belief. All of that’s true.

However...

1. 1,500 international observers reported that the May ‘18 elections were reasonably democratic.

2. Much, if not most, of the suffering being experienced by Venezuelans is attributable to the retaliatory economic measures designed to pressure the Maduro government into subordinating itself to the wishes of international capital (as reinforced by the American state). The sanctions and embargoes imposed upon Venezuela have helped to cripple and starve it, along with the concerted effort by private food producers and distributors who have a vested interest in applying pressure to the Maduro regime by starving the Venezuelan people. For example, theBank of England isn’t wanting to return the $1.2bn worth of gold Venezuela placed into it as part of a guarantee on a loan from Germany to purchase food from Turkey to feed its people being starved by sanctions. US/UK are deliberately blocking the ability for Venezuela to import food to feed its people, hoping that the hungry masses will rise up against Maduro.

3. While not every dictatorship or authoritarian regime should be tolerated, the Maduro government is hardly among the worst present in our world. America’s prioritization of Venezuela, beginning with Chavez and his Bolivarian Revolution (which has fallen apart under Maduro’s failed leadership), is rightfully suspicious considering Venezuela is far from unique, far from the worst existing today, that we have allies who’re considerably worse to their people, and, of course, that Venezuela just happens to possess the world’s largest proven oil reserves.

Citation needed. From what I've researched there were no international observers: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article211209854.html

Also...
The elections, which according to the constitution should be held in December, were called by the controversial National Constituent Assembly, a Maduro government-controlled organization that has effectively sidelined the opposition-controlled legislature.

[OSR stands with Israel]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

As stated in your own article, President Maduro didn’t directly ban any parties from participating. The National Constituent Assembly designed those limitations on participation in the election; not Maduro. The opposition doesn’t like the National Constituent Assembly, but it was voted upon by the Venezuelan people and holds no less legitimacy than any other elected body. They created the rules, so talk to the Assembly about that, not Maduro.

Yes, I'm sure Maduro was shocked--shocked I tell you!--that the opposition was denied the opportunity to run against him.

I never suggested that he was shocked. I’m also sure that he wasn’t the least bit upset by it either. I’m not here to claim that Venezuela is some shining example of democracy or that Maduro isn’t a habitual violator of civil rights and that his government is corrupt beyond belief. All of that’s true.

However...

1. 1,500 international observers reported that the May ‘18 elections were reasonably democratic.

2. Much, if not most, of the suffering being experienced by Venezuelans is attributable to the retaliatory economic measures designed to pressure the Maduro government into subordinating itself to the wishes of international capital (as reinforced by the American state). The sanctions and embargoes imposed upon Venezuela have helped to cripple and starve it, along with the concerted effort by private food producers and distributors who have a vested interest in applying pressure to the Maduro regime by starving the Venezuelan people. For example, theBank of England isn’t wanting to return the $1.2bn worth of gold Venezuela placed into it as part of a guarantee on a loan from Germany to purchase food from Turkey to feed its people being starved by sanctions. US/UK are deliberately blocking the ability for Venezuela to import food to feed its people, hoping that the hungry masses will rise up against Maduro.

3. While not every dictatorship or authoritarian regime should be tolerated, the Maduro government is hardly among the worst present in our world. America’s prioritization of Venezuela, beginning with Chavez and his Bolivarian Revolution (which has fallen apart under Maduro’s failed leadership), is rightfully suspicious considering Venezuela is far from unique, far from the worst existing today, that we have allies who’re considerably worse to their people, and, of course, that Venezuela just happens to possess the world’s largest proven oil reserves.

Its just not America though

So? Do you really think I’m aiming this solely at America?

The person who’s committing a coop is Maduro not Guaido . Besides your point on the international observers,that’s not a good point  as if the opposition is banned from participating it’s not an election
It’s rigged .

[JA]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

As stated in your own article, President Maduro didn’t directly ban any parties from participating. The National Constituent Assembly designed those limitations on participation in the election; not Maduro. The opposition doesn’t like the National Constituent Assembly, but it was voted upon by the Venezuelan people and holds no less legitimacy than any other elected body. They created the rules, so talk to the Assembly about that, not Maduro.

Yes, I'm sure Maduro was shocked--shocked I tell you!--that the opposition was denied the opportunity to run against him.

I never suggested that he was shocked. I’m also sure that he wasn’t the least bit upset by it either. I’m not here to claim that Venezuela is some shining example of democracy or that Maduro isn’t a habitual violator of civil rights and that his government is corrupt beyond belief. All of that’s true.

However...

1. 1,500 international observers reported that the May ‘18 elections were reasonably democratic.

2. Much, if not most, of the suffering being experienced by Venezuelans is attributable to the retaliatory economic measures designed to pressure the Maduro government into subordinating itself to the wishes of international capital (as reinforced by the American state). The sanctions and embargoes imposed upon Venezuela have helped to cripple and starve it, along with the concerted effort by private food producers and distributors who have a vested interest in applying pressure to the Maduro regime by starving the Venezuelan people. For example, theBank of England isn’t wanting to return the $1.2bn worth of gold Venezuela placed into it as part of a guarantee on a loan from Germany to purchase food from Turkey to feed its people being starved by sanctions. US/UK are deliberately blocking the ability for Venezuela to import food to feed its people, hoping that the hungry masses will rise up against Maduro.

3. While not every dictatorship or authoritarian regime should be tolerated, the Maduro government is hardly among the worst present in our world. America’s prioritization of Venezuela, beginning with Chavez and his Bolivarian Revolution (which has fallen apart under Maduro’s failed leadership), is rightfully suspicious considering Venezuela is far from unique, far from the worst existing today, that we have allies who’re considerably worse to their people, and, of course, that Venezuela just happens to possess the world’s largest proven oil reserves.

Citation needed. From what I've researched there were no international observers: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/venezuela/article211209854.html

Also...
The elections, which according to the constitution should be held in December, were called by the controversial National Constituent Assembly, a Maduro government-controlled organization that has effectively sidelined the opposition-controlled legislature.

A citation was already provided earlier by me, just look deeper in the quoted text.

Maduro called for a national vote on a National Constituent Assembly. It was put to popular vote. The opposition chose to boycott the election, thereby forfeiting any chances at securing a considerable share of representation in the assembly. That’s their fault that they chose not to participate and ensured the Assembly would be controlled practically exclusively by proponents of the Bolivarian Revolution.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Blaming Venezuela's problems on American sanctions isn't at all convincing.  Pretty much every country past or present that has had similar sanctions or even more sever sanctions has managed to do much much better than Venezuela.  About the only country that I can think of that suffered even worse was North Korea after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[JA]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

As stated in your own article, President Maduro didn’t directly ban any parties from participating. The National Constituent Assembly designed those limitations on participation in the election; not Maduro. The opposition doesn’t like the National Constituent Assembly, but it was voted upon by the Venezuelan people and holds no less legitimacy than any other elected body. They created the rules, so talk to the Assembly about that, not Maduro.

Yes, I'm sure Maduro was shocked--shocked I tell you!--that the opposition was denied the opportunity to run against him.

I never suggested that he was shocked. I’m also sure that he wasn’t the least bit upset by it either. I’m not here to claim that Venezuela is some shining example of democracy or that Maduro isn’t a habitual violator of civil rights and that his government is corrupt beyond belief. All of that’s true.

However...

1. 1,500 international observers reported that the May ‘18 elections were reasonably democratic.

2. Much, if not most, of the suffering being experienced by Venezuelans is attributable to the retaliatory economic measures designed to pressure the Maduro government into subordinating itself to the wishes of international capital (as reinforced by the American state). The sanctions and embargoes imposed upon Venezuela have helped to cripple and starve it, along with the concerted effort by private food producers and distributors who have a vested interest in applying pressure to the Maduro regime by starving the Venezuelan people. For example, theBank of England isn’t wanting to return the $1.2bn worth of gold Venezuela placed into it as part of a guarantee on a loan from Germany to purchase food from Turkey to feed its people being starved by sanctions. US/UK are deliberately blocking the ability for Venezuela to import food to feed its people, hoping that the hungry masses will rise up against Maduro.

3. While not every dictatorship or authoritarian regime should be tolerated, the Maduro government is hardly among the worst present in our world. America’s prioritization of Venezuela, beginning with Chavez and his Bolivarian Revolution (which has fallen apart under Maduro’s failed leadership), is rightfully suspicious considering Venezuela is far from unique, far from the worst existing today, that we have allies who’re considerably worse to their people, and, of course, that Venezuela just happens to possess the world’s largest proven oil reserves.

Its just not America though

So? Do you really think I’m aiming this solely at America?

The person who’s committing a coop is Maduro not Guaido . Besides your point on the international observers,that’s not a good point  as if the opposition is banned from participating it’s not an election
It’s rigged .

Maduro is the sole legitimate leader of Venezuela. Who else could be? The only person who won any kind of election was Maduro.

Maduro also didn’t prohibit any opposition from participating in the May ‘18 election. The National Constituent Assembly prohibited those parties that boycotted the election of the National Constituent Assembly. When they chose to boycott the NCA, the opposition forfeited representation in this constitutional body.

[JA]

I don’t know why I’ve experienced any feelings of surprise that liberals and conservatives have, yet again, lined up behind American imperialism, the American empire, and the interests of capital in blatant disregard for the sovereignty and interests of another country. I’m not equating Venezuela to Iraq; but, they’re very similar. Same with Libya, Syria, etc... Liberals and conservatives are both useless advocates of imperialism, regardless of how many lives it costs.

There is absolutely no justifiable reason to intervene to destabilize or overthrow the government of Venezuela. It’s as simple as that. Westerners need to mind their own damn business for once in centuries upon centuries.

Edit: Also, it’s funny that countries like the US, UK, and France like to dictate to other, mostly “third world” countries, how democracy is supposed to work. America has gone the longest in its history with a government shutdown over a political stalemate as federal workers are forced into bread lines. The UK is immersed in a political crisis due to the utter failure of its leadership and its government to form any agreement on Brexit. The French have been protesting in the streets for months in opposition to their President. Hell, America’s President wasn’t even elected with a majority or a plurality; more Americans voted against him than for him, yet he’s the President going around telling other countries how their leaders aren’t legitimate.

Edit 2: If anyone actually cares to learn about Venezuela, then they should read this twitter thread (with reputable sources provided).

[Big Abraham]

I'm not even sure what people posting this even mean - are they arguing that it is preferable to avoid hypocrisy by supporting all dictatorships, including Maduro's, than to support some but not others, or what?

Preferably supporting no dictatorships would be sufficient.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

JA, the NCA was chosen in a most undemocratic way, with a third of its members elected not by the people as a whole but by organizations under the control of the kleptocracy.  Even if the opposition had participated in the elections for the NCA they would have had to have won three-fourths of the popularly elected members and trusted that kleptocracy wouldn't engage in vote fraud.  Considering the massive fraud that did take place to pad the numbers of voters way beyond those actually cast so as try and led a veneer of legitimacy to what happened, those fears were well justified.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm not even sure what people posting this even mean - are they arguing that it is preferable to avoid hypocrisy by supporting all dictatorships, including Maduro's, than to support some but not others, or what?

Preferably supporting no dictatorships would be sufficient.

That's what the liberals here are supporting. No,one's singing the praises of Saudi Arabia.

[Coastal Elitist]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

As stated in your own article, President Maduro didn’t directly ban any parties from participating. The National Constituent Assembly designed those limitations on participation in the election; not Maduro. The opposition doesn’t like the National Constituent Assembly, but it was voted upon by the Venezuelan people and holds no less legitimacy than any other elected body. They created the rules, so talk to the Assembly about that, not Maduro.

Yes, I'm sure Maduro was shocked--shocked I tell you!--that the opposition was denied the opportunity to run against him.

I never suggested that he was shocked. I’m also sure that he wasn’t the least bit upset by it either. I’m not here to claim that Venezuela is some shining example of democracy or that Maduro isn’t a habitual violator of civil rights and that his government is corrupt beyond belief. All of that’s true.

However...

1. 1,500 international observers reported that the May ‘18 elections were reasonably democratic.

2. Much, if not most, of the suffering being experienced by Venezuelans is attributable to the retaliatory economic measures designed to pressure the Maduro government into subordinating itself to the wishes of international capital (as reinforced by the American state). The sanctions and embargoes imposed upon Venezuela have helped to cripple and starve it, along with the concerted effort by private food producers and distributors who have a vested interest in applying pressure to the Maduro regime by starving the Venezuelan people. For example, theBank of England isn’t wanting to return the $1.2bn worth of gold Venezuela placed into it as part of a guarantee on a loan from Germany to purchase food from Turkey to feed its people being starved by sanctions. US/UK are deliberately blocking the ability for Venezuela to import food to feed its people, hoping that the hungry masses will rise up against Maduro.

3. While not every dictatorship or authoritarian regime should be tolerated, the Maduro government is hardly among the worst present in our world. America’s prioritization of Venezuela, beginning with Chavez and his Bolivarian Revolution (which has fallen apart under Maduro’s failed leadership), is rightfully suspicious considering Venezuela is far from unique, far from the worst existing today, that we have allies who’re considerably worse to their people, and, of course, that Venezuela just happens to possess the world’s largest proven oil reserves.

Its just not America though

So? Do you really think I’m aiming this solely at America?

The person who’s committing a coop is Maduro not Guaido . Besides your point on the international observers,that’s not a good point  as if the opposition is banned from participating it’s not an election
It’s rigged .

Maduro is the sole legitimate leader of Venezuela. Who else could be? The only person who won any kind of election was Maduro.

Maduro also didn’t prohibit any opposition from participating in the May ‘18 election. The National Constituent Assembly prohibited those parties that boycotted the election of the National Constituent Assembly. When they chose to boycott the NCA, the opposition forfeited representation in this constitutional body.

You have got to be kidding me a research paper is not a primary source. Also it clearly has a certain slant to it as the writer is looking to prove their theory. That paper makes numerous claims without proper citations. Opposition parties were disqualified from running which is why they ended up boycotting the election. He had some of thrown in jail as well.
https://www.lapatilla.com/2018/01/23/lideres-opositores-que-no-podran-ser-candidatos-en-proxima-eleccion-presidencial-de-venezuela/

[Big Abraham]

I'm not even sure what people posting this even mean - are they arguing that it is preferable to avoid hypocrisy by supporting all dictatorships, including Maduro's, than to support some but not others, or what?

Preferably supporting no dictatorships would be sufficient.

That's what the liberals here are supporting. No,one's singing the praises of Saudi Arabia.

Right, so we're pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of the U.S. government lecturing Venezuela and other countries on "democracy" when they themselves clearly do not support it. I'd rather American policy be focused on refusing to sell arms to the Saudis than to meddling in the affairs of country in the midst of an internal crisis, when we know damn well that the U.S. doesn't give two sh**ts about their government anyway.

[OSR stands with Israel]

U.S. Coups™: Overthrowing Latin American Governments since 1823

Except Maduro is no longer a democratically-elected leader, so even if it was a coup (which it is clearly not, especially with the military still backing Maduro), it would be different.

1,500 international observers would disagree with you.

Maduro is the legitimate leader of Venezuela. This coup attempt by an international, Right-wing, imperialistic alliance is inexcusable; they have no power to recognize an unelected, illegitimate leader of another country. Is Maduro corrupt? Hell yes. He’s also a frequent violator of numerous human and civil rights. No question about that. But, he’s far, far from being among the world’s worst, and yet America, Canada, etc... are perfectly fine not only tolerating, but partnering with considerably worse states, such as Saudi Arabia. The reason behind all of this is obvious: oil. Venezuela has the world’s largest proven oil reserves, yet they aren’t particularly friendly with the world’s imperialistic powers (headed by the US).

Thankfully, Venezuela’s armed forces have already expressed their alliance with Maduro’s legitimate government.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum loses their collective sh** over simply alleged Russian meddling in American elections, scream about the Fascism of Trump and Bolsonaro, then at the same time champion American-Brazilian partnership in an attempted coup. You’re all just massive bootlickers.

This post is so absurd that it reminds me of something TNF would say back in the day

Prove that all of what I said was wrong.

Maduro is not legitimate in any way . The election was clearly rigged so the fact is that the results are invalid and Guaido is the interim president until new elections can be held

Here’s the thing, I can either recognize the statements of 1,500 international observers who oversaw and investigated the Venezuelan election of May 2018 or I can go by the word of a random forum commentor and the totally unbiased claims of the US government and its allies. Decisions, decisions...

In addition, I’d love to know why the legitimacy of Venezuela’s president and the crisis of that country (which, in large, but not exclusive, part stems from American sanctions/embargos) is more important than, for example, the crisis of an undemocratically elected President slaughtering protestors in Sudan, the police state forced upon the Uighurs by the unelected Chinese government, or the unparalleled barbarism against its own people and assassination of an American citizen (along with his torture) by an ally of the US, Canada, etc... whose government has absolutely no claims to democratic legitimacy. Could you please tell me why Maduro’s Venezuela is an enemy deserving of such priority and threats of coups, while America remains allied with some of the worst tyrannical regimes and ignores the horrors of countless African and Asian states?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-42304594

As stated in your own article, President Maduro didn’t directly ban any parties from participating. The National Constituent Assembly designed those limitations on participation in the election; not Maduro. The opposition doesn’t like the National Constituent Assembly, but it was voted upon by the Venezuelan people and holds no less legitimacy than any other elected body. They created the rules, so talk to the Assembly about that, not Maduro.

Yes, I'm sure Maduro was shocked--shocked I tell you!--that the opposition was denied the opportunity to run against him.

I never suggested that he was shocked. I’m also sure that he wasn’t the least bit upset by it either. I’m not here to claim that Venezuela is some shining example of democracy or that Maduro isn’t a habitual violator of civil rights and that his government is corrupt beyond belief. All of that’s true.

However...

1. 1,500 international observers reported that the May ‘18 elections were reasonably democratic.

2. Much, if not most, of the suffering being experienced by Venezuelans is attributable to the retaliatory economic measures designed to pressure the Maduro government into subordinating itself to the wishes of international capital (as reinforced by the American state). The sanctions and embargoes imposed upon Venezuela have helped to cripple and starve it, along with the concerted effort by private food producers and distributors who have a vested interest in applying pressure to the Maduro regime by starving the Venezuelan people. For example, theBank of England isn’t wanting to return the $1.2bn worth of gold Venezuela placed into it as part of a guarantee on a loan from Germany to purchase food from Turkey to feed its people being starved by sanctions. US/UK are deliberately blocking the ability for Venezuela to import food to feed its people, hoping that the hungry masses will rise up against Maduro.

3. While not every dictatorship or authoritarian regime should be tolerated, the Maduro government is hardly among the worst present in our world. America’s prioritization of Venezuela, beginning with Chavez and his Bolivarian Revolution (which has fallen apart under Maduro’s failed leadership), is rightfully suspicious considering Venezuela is far from unique, far from the worst existing today, that we have allies who’re considerably worse to their people, and, of course, that Venezuela just happens to possess the world’s largest proven oil reserves.

Its just not America though

So? Do you really think I’m aiming this solely at America?

The person who’s committing a coop is Maduro not Guaido . Besides your point on the international observers,that’s not a good point  as if the opposition is banned from participating it’s not an election
It’s rigged .

Maduro is the sole legitimate leader of Venezuela. Who else could be? The only person who won any kind of election was Maduro.

Maduro also didn’t prohibit any opposition from participating in the May ‘18 election. The National Constituent Assembly prohibited those parties that boycotted the election of the National Constituent Assembly. When they chose to boycott the NCA, the opposition forfeited representation in this constitutional body.

You have got to be kidding me a research paper is not a primary source. Also it clearly has a certain slant to it as the writer is looking to prove their theory. That paper makes numerous claims without proper citations. Opposition parties were disqualified from running which is why they ended up boycotting the election. He had some of thrown in jail as well.
https://www.lapatilla.com/2018/01/23/lideres-opositores-que-no-podran-ser-candidatos-en-proxima-eleccion-presidencial-de-venezuela/

Commies like him will never support US actions against Left Wing dictatorships no matter what unfortunately.


We once had a poster named TNF and he became so commie that he started to defend North Korea and their government and would blame the US and capitalism for everything . It seems like Jacobin is going down TNF’s route because TNF wasn’t always like that but he eventually went down that road and became one and I hope Jacobin doesn’t go further down that route

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'm not even sure what people posting this even mean - are they arguing that it is preferable to avoid hypocrisy by supporting all dictatorships, including Maduro's, than to support some but not others, or what?

Preferably supporting no dictatorships would be sufficient.

That's what the liberals here are supporting. No,one's singing the praises of Saudi Arabia.

Right, so we're pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of the U.S. government lecturing Venezuela and other countries on "democracy" when they themselves clearly do not support it. I'd rather American policy be focused on refusing to sell arms to the Saudis than to meddling in the affairs of country in the midst of an internal crisis, when we know damn well that the U.S. doesn't give two sh**ts about their government anyway.

So does that mean that random people on an Internet forum with no connection to the government can't call Maduro a piece of sh!t and hope for his government to fall?

I mean it's not hypocritical for me to both support ending arms sales to the Saudis and support recognizing Guaidó. And mind you, most Democrats in Congress DID vote to cut off arms sales to the Saudis.

[Landslide Lyndon]

If Maduro falls then a lot of leftist parties in Europe will start getting nervous considering he has funneled a lot of money to them through legally questionable channels.

cite?

https://elpais.com/elpais/2016/06/17/inenglish/1466151454_189201.html

There have also been many reports here in Greece about secret visits of SYRIZA ministers to Caracas along with a lawyer whose expertise is setting-up off-shore companies.

[Sestak]

I don’t know why I’ve experienced any feelings of surprise that liberals and conservatives have, yet again, lined up behind American imperialism, the American empire, and the interests of capital in blatant disregard for the sovereignty and interests of another country. I’m not equating Venezuela to Iraq; but, they’re very similar. Same with Libya, Syria, etc... Liberals and conservatives are both useless advocates of imperialism, regardless of how many lives it costs.

There is absolutely no justifiable reason to intervene to destabilize or overthrow the government of Venezuela. It’s as simple as that. Westerners need to mind their own damn business for once in centuries upon centuries.

Edit: Also, it’s funny that countries like the US, UK, and France like to dictate to other, mostly “third world” countries, how democracy is supposed to work. America has gone the longest in its history with a government shutdown over a political stalemate as federal workers are forced into bread lines. The UK is immersed in a political crisis due to the utter failure of its leadership and its government to form any agreement on Brexit. The French have been protesting in the streets for months in opposition to their President. Hell, America’s President wasn’t even elected with a majority or a plurality; more Americans voted against him than for him, yet he’s the President going around telling other countries how their leaders aren’t legitimate.

Edit 2: If anyone actually cares to learn about Venezuela, then they should read this twitter thread (with reputable sources provided).

Same person who made that thread (and as a reply to a reply to that same thread, actually):

https://mobile.twitter.com/TerrinaMajnoona/status/1013658266037989378

[Big Abraham]

I'm not even sure what people posting this even mean - are they arguing that it is preferable to avoid hypocrisy by supporting all dictatorships, including Maduro's, than to support some but not others, or what?

Preferably supporting no dictatorships would be sufficient.

That's what the liberals here are supporting. No,one's singing the praises of Saudi Arabia.

Right, so we're pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of the U.S. government lecturing Venezuela and other countries on "democracy" when they themselves clearly do not support it. I'd rather American policy be focused on refusing to sell arms to the Saudis than to meddling in the affairs of country in the midst of an internal crisis, when we know damn well that the U.S. doesn't give two sh**ts about their government anyway.

So does that mean that random people on an Internet forum with no connection to the government can't call Maduro a piece of sh!t and hope for his government to fall?

I mean it's not hypocritical for me to both support ending arms sales to the Saudis and support recognizing Guaidó. And mind you, most Democrats in Congress DID vote to cut off arms sales to the Saudis.

I'm not speaking about random people on a forum, or individuals in general. They can believe whatever they want to believe. I'm speaking about official U.S. policy, which has consistently shown a prioritisation of Venezuela and its supposedly illegitimate government despite the fact that the United States provides military aid to three quarters of the world's dictatorships, and the brutality of many of those make Maduro look like a benevolent respecter of human rights by comparison.

Recognising a leader different from the one who was elected and is actually in control by pushing for regime change, in the midst of an internal crisis which has obviously played into American hands, will only make matters worse.