Crisis in Venezuela

[Antonio the Sixth]

But personally I think I’ll pass on this democratic manifest destiny. Perhaps western democracies should consider how they’ve become a joke before exporting it any further.

"Democracy is the worst form of Government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Churchill quotes are often overrated, but this one never quite gets old (mainly due to the continued existence of edgelords like yourself).

[NOVA Green]

You fail to comprehend that I never expressed any form of significant support for Maduro’s government.

And? That signature says solidarity with Venezuela against a US backed coup. That’s my position, obviously.

It is fascinating that once again we hear the War Drums pounding, with Southern Senators calling for the equivalent of War against a Government in America Latina....

Reality is that any US Military or Political Movements against the Government of Venezuela, will be regarding as once again American Imperialist intentions against a Socialist Government within the Hemisphere....

Although most US Citizens are brain dead and ignorant of history, the reality and collective memory in most of Central and South America, has a different perspective....

US Imperialism in Latin America in 2019 is a far cry from the "Gunboat Diplomacy" of the the late 1890s / early 1900s, let alone the era of Military Coups in the '50s/'60s/'70s that supported the rise of Fascist Governments into power in Central America, the Caribbean, and the Southern Cone.

The Political Left is a huge player now within the region, and although all politics are local any perception that the "Giant to the North" is once again attempting to control and manipulate political events within the region, will be met with massive demonstrations and militant confrontations in the streets and cities throughout the region....

If Trump attempts to mobilize US Military forces to overthrow the Government of Venezuela, it will not work out well....

Meanwhile, songs and ballads of Che Guevara will be hitting the tops of the charts from Mexico, to Central America, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and beyond....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr_g23qi9hg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwzRoVEQsNk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgY40b2gEw

The Anti-Imperialist Movement will be marching in the Streets of every City in Europe, and even our Russian Comrades will be protesting in the streets against such a blatant  power grab.

Venezuela has some major issues, and honestly the US needs to sit on the back-burner, work with the OAS, and not try to get War Crazy, simply to divert attention from ongoing US-PRES Criminal investigations, because of a political situation in a Country "cursed and Gifted" by a Petro-Economy where political corruption and pocketing the national wealth from a Center-Right Government back in the early '90s caused a Socialist Military Coup.

[DavidB.]

Seems like this thread could - and should - be instrumental for intelligence services in knowing whom to watch closely...

[American2020]

https://twitter.com/TheRoaringTruth/status/1089373874658000896

I know many US interventions were very inappropriate, but some others were justified. I'd never ever forget atrocities during the Yugoslavian wars.

[DavidB.]

https://twitter.com/TheRoaringTruth/status/1089373874658000896

What the f**k is this abomination.

[America Needs R'hllor]

https://twitter.com/TheRoaringTruth/status/1089373874658000896

I know many US interventions were very inappropriate, but some others were justified. I'd never ever forget atrocities during the Yugoslavian wars.

Indeed, the extreme "anti-imperialist" left and the radical right are great partners. Antisemitism goes well with both.

[NOVA Green]

Seems like this thread could - and should - be instrumental for intelligence services in knowing whom to watch closely...

This belongs in the Atlas in the Atlas Hilarious post thread, unless you are somehow concerned that Russian Intelligence will be sharing confidential info about Venezuelan Nationals facing deportation from European Nations or the United States where their Political Asylum status might be denied....

Let's face it, the resolution to the ongoing political crisis in Venezuela is a political and not a military issue, and it appears that Trump might be on the verge of engaging US Military Forces in Civil Conflict in Venezuela, as I speculated last Night.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/29/troops-photo-john-boltons-notes-raise-questions-about-military-role-venezuela-crisis/?utm_term=.486cc5a3668e

I stand by my comments that any US Military Intervention in the Civil Conflict in Venezuela will spark major unrest throughout America Latina and beyond....

[NOVA Green]

https://twitter.com/TheRoaringTruth/status/1089373874658000896

I know many US interventions were very inappropriate, but some others were justified. I'd never ever forget atrocities during the Yugoslavian wars.

Indeed, the extreme "anti-imperialist" left and the radical right are great partners. Antisemitism goes well with both.

Well certainly it is completely correct within the context of various European Anti-Imp formations in the 1970s, and fractional radical political formation within the US, generally associated with splinter Communist and Maoist Party formations, it really doesn't speak to the reality of the broader scale Anti-Interventionist and Anti-War Movements in the United States within the context of Latin America.

Reality is that the Anti-Vietnam War Movement was a broad based coalition focused on a specific US involvement that first triggered the equivalent of the "New Left" Anti-Imperialist Movement.

Anti-Semitism was not a major component of that Mass Movement....

The next major rise of the American Anti-War / Anti-Imperialist Movement occurred in the late '70s and '80s as part of the Central American Solidarity Movement.

Again, Anti-Semitism was not a component of that Mass Movement....

The next major surge of the American Anti-War Movement was in '90/'91 when Bush Senior deployed American Military Forces into the Middle East against the Iraqi Government.

Again, Anti-Semitism was not a component of that Mass Movement, which most on the Anti War Movement saw as a "War For Oil", and Israel was not a part of the equation....

Although, I certainly understand and respect your perspective, and as an individual with a Jewish Orthodox Sister and Six beautiful nieces and nephews, two of whom lived for Years in Israel, I suspect that you might be conflating the European Anti-Imperialist Movement with the American "Anti-War Movement"....

Many of us combat Anti-Semitism on a daily basis, but I suspect you are barking up the wrong tree when it comes to politics of Latin America....

Or it could just be, that I misread that your OP was referring to Yugoslavia....

[Karpatsky]

https://twitter.com/TheRoaringTruth/status/1089373874658000896

I know many US interventions were very inappropriate, but some others were justified. I'd never ever forget atrocities during the Yugoslavian wars.

This is what you get when you combine ideological dogmaticism with a lack of interest in understanding situational context.

This applies.

[OSR stands with Israel]

The Gulf War and the Invasion of Afghanistan were absolutely justifiable

[2952-0-0]

The Afghanistan invasion was a complete waste of U.S. and NATO effort and lives. If the purpose was strictly to kill Bin Laden and destroy Al-Qaeda, then the U.S. could have done so without risking a single life.

They could have simply offered to deposit $1 billion in the Swiss bank account of the Pakistani military general who delivers Bin Laden's corpse to the U.S. embassy in Islamabad. Smaller bounties would be offered to other Al-Qaeda leaders.

It would have cost just $10 billion to avenge 9/11, without costing a single U.S. life or jeopardizing NATO's legitimacy, or burdening the west with an intractable problem.

[Del Tachi]

The Afghanistan invasion was a complete waste of U.S. and NATO effort and lives. If the purpose was strictly to kill Bin Laden and destroy Al-Qaeda, then the U.S. could have done so without risking a single life.

They could have simply offered to deposit $1 billion in the Swiss bank account of the Pakistani military general who delivers Bin Laden's corpse to the U.S. embassy in Islamabad. Smaller bounties would be offered to other Al-Qaeda leaders.

It would have cost just $10 billion to avenge 9/11, without costing a single U.S. life or jeopardizing NATO's legitimacy, or burdening the west with an intractable problem.

Never mind that the Taliban government in Afghanistan was openly aiding and abetting global terrorists, including Al-Qaeda

Regime change was the only option following 9/11

[Big Abraham]

The Gulf War and the Invasion of Afghanistan were absolutely justifiable

How? They certainly weren't justifiable under international law

[OSR stands with Israel]

The Gulf War and the Invasion of Afghanistan were absolutely justifiable

How? They certainly weren't justifiable under international law

Lmao the UN literally authorized the first gulf war and NATO invoked article 5 in 2001

[Big Abraham]

The Gulf War and the Invasion of Afghanistan were absolutely justifiable

How? They certainly weren't justifiable under international law

Lmao the UN literally authorized the first gulf war and NATO invoked article 5 in 2001

The UN and NATO are not synonymous with international law. The UN in particular was only prompted to respond to Iraq's aggressions against Kuwait because (for once) the U.S. allowed it to, and the UN sanctions on Iraq were the result of pressures and lobbying by the American government. At any rate, though the UNSC obviously authorised numerous sanctions, they also pursued other diplomatic means, including the call of an international conference, which only two countries voted against (the U.S. and Israel). The US also adamantly refused to allow a reversal of Iraq's aggression by the peaceful means prescribed by international law. And the members of the UNSC were bribed and given economic incentives by the U.S. for a yes vote on Resolution 678, and one of the few countries to vote against the resolution (Yemen) were penalised by the U.S. by ceasing all foreign aid.

[Helsinkian]

While the anti-imperialist left has been going on about how the US is about to rob Venezuela's resources, a Russian plane literally took off with most of the gold reserves in Venezuela's central bank:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-30/venezuela-has-20-tons-of-gold-ready-to-ship-destination-unknown

Russians did the same thing with Spain's gold reserves during the Spanish Civil War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_gold

...and even earlier with Romania's gold during WWI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Treasure

[OSR stands with Israel]

If the US violated international law by stopping a and driving back a madman who wanted to take over the entire gulf region and if the US violated international law by invading a nation whose  government aided and abetted the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 then its the international laws that are the problem and the US breaking them didn’t make the wars any less justified .

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

If we fail to intervene, I fear the loss of the Venezuelan people. If Guaidó falls, and millions of his supporters are gunned down or imprisoned, the world will turn to America and question us. Right here, right now, democracy is waging a war against the totalitarian, barbaric evil of Nicolas Maduro.

Can you not see? A barbaric, murderous lion strikes at a defenseless lamb, and we proclaim our neutrality. That is not just or right, by any stretch of the imagination. It is as the Archbishop Desmond Tutu once said: “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.”

We are the barbarians. We don't save lives, we destroy them with our wars.

[Big Abraham]

If the US violated international law by stopping a and driving back a madman who wanted to take over the entire gulf region and if the US violated international law by invading a nation whose  government aided and abetted the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 then its the international laws that are the problem and the US breaking them didn’t make the wars any less justified .

You make America sound so altruistic. Please.

[OSR stands with Israel]

If the US violated international law by stopping a and driving back a madman who wanted to take over the entire gulf region and if the US violated international law by invading a nation whose  government aided and abetted the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 then its the international laws that are the problem and the US breaking them didn’t make the wars any less justified .

You make America sound so altruistic. Please.

We didnt invade Iraq in Gulf War 1 we stopped after we Liberated Kuwait.

The Government of Afghanistan Aided and Abetted the Terrorists who attacked us on 9/11, how the hell is attacking them not justified.

[Big Abraham]

If the US violated international law by stopping a and driving back a madman who wanted to take over the entire gulf region and if the US violated international law by invading a nation whose  government aided and abetted the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 then its the international laws that are the problem and the US breaking them didn’t make the wars any less justified .

You make America sound so altruistic. Please.

We didnt invade Iraq in Gulf War 1 we stopped after we Liberated Kuwait.

The Government of Afghanistan Aided and Abetted the Terrorists who attacked us on 9/11, how the hell is attacking them not justified.

(1) Re: this whole "liberating Kuwait" nonsense, Saddam Hussein was the same murderous madman before the Gulf War when he was a favoured trading partner and ally of the United States. The invasion of Kuwait was certainly unjustified but is pretty much on par with many atrocities committed by the United States and nowhere near as terrible as others, and the U.S. has similarly either turned a blind eye at best or funded at worst some of the grossest violations of human rights imaginable. So why did we care so much when Hussein invaded Kuwait? Because that meant Iraq now had access to the Persian Gulf, which meant control over strategic ports, as well as control over oil, so that the U.S. could maintain control over oil prices to its own enrichment, which only required that Hussein be pushed out of Kuwait.

(2) Re: the Afghanistan War, the UN Charter provides that all member states must settle their international disputes by peaceful means (which the U.S. conveniently ignores), and no nation can use military force except in self-defense. The bombardment campaigns in Afghanistan were also obviously illegal, both under international law and under domestic law, given that treaties ratified by the U.S. anr therefore part of the supreme law of the land under the Constitution. An invasion of Afghanistan was by no means necessary or justified. The United States could have appealed to the ICJ if there was any evidence that the Taliban were involved in the attacks, set up an international tribunal, cut off diplomatic relations, etc. These are all precedents that follow much more serious cases of international terrorism. And before you argue that the attacks in New York and Washington prompted the use of self-defense, keep in mind the September 11 attacks were criminal attacks, not armed attacks carried out by the military of another nation and thus does not meet the criterion by self-defense found under multiple treaties on international law.

[OSR stands with Israel]

If the US violated international law by stopping a and driving back a madman who wanted to take over the entire gulf region and if the US violated international law by invading a nation whose  government aided and abetted the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 then its the international laws that are the problem and the US breaking them didn’t make the wars any less justified .

You make America sound so altruistic. Please.

We didnt invade Iraq in Gulf War 1 we stopped after we Liberated Kuwait.

The Government of Afghanistan Aided and Abetted the Terrorists who attacked us on 9/11, how the hell is attacking them not justified.

(1) Re: this whole "liberating Kuwait" nonsense, Saddam Hussein was the same murderous madman before the Gulf War when he was a favoured trading partner and ally of the United States. The invasion of Kuwait was certainly unjustified but is pretty much on par with many atrocities committed by the United States and nowhere near as terrible as others, and the U.S. has similarly either turned a blind eye at best or funded at worst some of the grossest violations of human rights imaginable. So why did we care so much when Hussein invaded Kuwait? Because that meant Iraq now had access to the Persian Gulf, which meant control over strategic ports, as well as control over oil, so that the U.S. could maintain control over oil prices to its own enrichment, which only required that Hussein be pushed out of Kuwait.

(2) Re: the Afghanistan War, the UN Charter provides that all member states must settle their international disputes by peaceful means (which the U.S. conveniently ignores), and no nation can use military force except in self-defense. The bombardment campaigns in Afghanistan were also obviously illegal, both under international law and under domestic law, given that treaties ratified by the U.S. anr therefore part of the supreme law of the land under the Constitution. An invasion of Afghanistan was by no means necessary or justified. The United States could have appealed to the ICJ if there was any evidence that the Taliban were involved in the attacks, set up an international tribunal, cut off diplomatic relations, etc. These are all precedents that follow much more serious cases of international terrorism. And before you argue that the attacks in New York and Washington prompted the use of self-defense, keep in mind the September 11 attacks were criminal attacks, not armed attacks carried out by the military of another nation and thus does not meet the criterion by self-defense found under multiple treaties on international law.

1. He didn’t invade Kuwait before the Gulf War


2. If that’s true then that international law is 100% bs and proves exactly why the US should follow our own laws when there’s a conflict . And by your own standards that makes the Gulf War legal since the UN approved it .

Also 9/11 is a justification  of war because the Tailban aided and abetted it so yes it’s a declaration of war .

[Big Abraham]

1. He didn’t invade Kuwait before the Gulf War

You really think Kuwait made the difference? The Reagan and Bush administrations openly and frequently encouraged the flow of money, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq when they invaded Persia. Where then was all the talk of "national sovereignty"?

2. If that’s true then that international law is 100% bs and proves exactly why the US should follow our own laws when there’s a conflict . And by your own standards that makes the Gulf War legal since the UN approved it .

Also 9/11 is a justification  of war because the Tailban aided and abetted it so yes it’s a declaration of war .

Oh believe me, the U.S. could've easily gotten the Security Council to approve an invasion of Afghanistan. Even though America lost its virtual monopoly over UN decision making, none of the powers would have opposed an American-led resolution for reasons I illustrated in an earlier post. But the American government chose not to seek authorisation from the Security Council because that would mean there was some higher authority to which America had to defer.

[Tender Branson]

Chancellor Kurz weighs in:

https://twitter.com/sebastiankurz/status/1092039461473566720

Notice how he writes "President Guaidó" ...

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Even if you don't recognize him as President of Venezuela, Guaidó is President of the National Assembly. So just calling him President without specifying what he is president of doesn't signify any particular position on what is the legitimate government of Venezuela.