Why is Corbyn still leading Labour? (user search)
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  Why is Corbyn still leading Labour? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Why is Corbyn still leading Labour?  (Read 2670 times)
Big Abraham
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 6,057
« on: January 19, 2019, 03:21:53 PM »



How is this "consistently trailing"? They're essentially even (Tories maybe slightly ahead), and have been ahead at various points since the end of the last election. Seriously, I don't even like Labour all that much, but "consistently trailing" is just ridiculous
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Big Abraham
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,057
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2019, 10:10:24 PM »

Because Labour are doing well in the polls under him?

They're consistently trailing one of the most incompetent UK governments in history.

See Big Abraham's post

Erm being 'even' with one of the most useless and divided governments in living memory isn't anything to write home about.

It's true that a Labour party lead by someone like Corbyn is not going to get anywhere near the leads Labour were getting in the polls in the mid 90s in the dying days of the Major government  because he's never going to appeal to disaffected dyed in the wool Tory voters in the way Blair could. However you would have thought they would at least be able to open up a consistent mid to high single digit lead against a government as bad as this one.

Obviously things could change when something is done re. Brexit whether that be no deal, a second referendum, article 50 extension etc. but for left leaning people it should be at least somewhat concerning that Labour hasn't broken through.



Well there are still going to be a large pool of loyal Tory voters either way, and British politics are no less divided than American politics are, so things are going to be relatively even at any particular moment. You also conveniently left out the parts of their polling where they had not insignificant gains compared to the Conservatives. But in all fairness, the current political climate might indicate their numbers should be higher, and the Tories are still (somewhat) managing to hold their own right now, probably due to still somewhat weak nationwide approval ratings for Corbyn. 
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Big Abraham
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,057
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2019, 11:16:59 PM »

Because much of the modern left is ok with anti-Semitism as long as they're promised free stuff

What evidence do you have that Corbyn is an anti-Semite?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/13/year-denials-jeremy-corbyn-changed-story/
also the fact that he has invited holocaust deniers to parliament, endorsed politicans who have called for the eradication of Israel, and surrounded himself with anti-semites his entire career


I'm not aware of him ever actually inviting Holocaust deniers to Parliament, nor do you list any names. The only incident that I am aware of is him and another Labour MP attending an event of a speaker who was later revealed to be a Holocaust denier, and Corbyn stated that had he known at the time he would not have attended. Regarding the wreath-laying controversy, he has no known connection with the terrorist group in question, and his mere attendance at a ceremony of this nature is not evidence enough that he himself is an anti-Semite, given that it doesn't actually entail an endorsement of the Munich attacks, and that the ceremony was not specifically devoted to that attack anyway.

Criticism of Israel is not the same as anti-Semitism, and whatever the extent of it may be in the Labour Party, your sources don't reveal much
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Big Abraham
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,057
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2019, 05:34:59 PM »

Because much of the modern left is ok with anti-Semitism as long as they're promised free stuff

What evidence do you have that Corbyn is an anti-Semite?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/13/year-denials-jeremy-corbyn-changed-story/
also the fact that he has invited holocaust deniers to parliament, endorsed politicans who have called for the eradication of Israel, and surrounded himself with anti-semites his entire career


I'm not aware of him ever actually inviting Holocaust deniers to Parliament, nor do you list any names. The only incident that I am aware of is him and another Labour MP attending an event of a speaker who was later revealed to be a Holocaust denier, and Corbyn stated that had he known at the time he would not have attended. Regarding the wreath-laying controversy, he has no known connection with the terrorist group in question, and his mere attendance at a ceremony of this nature is not evidence enough that he himself is an anti-Semite, given that it doesn't actually entail an endorsement of the Munich attacks, and that the ceremony was not specifically devoted to that attack anyway.

Criticism of Israel is not the same as anti-Semitism, and whatever the extent of it may be in the Labour Party, your sources don't reveal much

Corbyn's well-documented, obsessive antisemitism is not ambiguous, nor is it a subject of debate. It's a key part of the party you choose to endorse. Either you endorse it, or you've simply decided it's an acceptable price to pay. Much like Trump's racism, there's no separating the two. Live with it.

Both Corbyn's supposed anti-Semitism (and Trump's supposed racism) are absolutely subject to debate, and they are key reasons why both have such vigorous supporters and detractors. It's all a matter of how much one wants to read into, and how one interprets, various statements and how much credence one lends to various narratives. And given people constantly disagree over anti-Semitism, and to what constitutes examples of it, and people constantly besmirch their opponents with its label, there is no reason why it would be any different for high profile politicians like Corbyn and Trump, especially when enough of their statements are ambiguous as they are. And to act any differently, as though it's just a foregone conclusion not even subject to debate itself, is ridiculous.
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