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  Talk Elections
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  International General Discussion (Moderators: Gustaf, afleitch, Hash, Mr. Kleks)
  A Tragic Morning in Ireland (Abortion is legal)
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Author Topic: A Tragic Morning in Ireland (Abortion is legal)  (Read 1049 times)
Pro-Life Single Issue Voter
ExtremeRepublican
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« on: December 31, 2018, 11:08:50 pm »

At the strike of midnight, Ireland experienced the worst tragedy it has ever seen.  This is one of the worst abortion laws in the world, with no protections for religious hospitals and severely limited conscience protections for doctors, as well as forcing taxpayers to pay for what many of them believe to be a genocide.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2019, 02:11:10 am »

Yes   1,429,981      66.40%
No   723,632      33.60%
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danny
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« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2019, 04:53:39 am »

Happy to hear the good news.
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Mr. Kleks
Kalwejt
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« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2019, 05:51:46 am »

At the strike of midnight, Ireland experienced the worst tragedy it has ever seen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

But since there were no state-allowed abortions I guess it's small potatoes Smiley
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2019, 06:08:46 am »

At the strike of midnight, Ireland experienced the worst tragedy it has ever seen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

But since there were no state-allowed abortions I guess it's small potatoes Smiley

They could have used some small potatoes (or any size, really).
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Blair
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« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2019, 07:25:29 am »



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Parrotguy
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« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2019, 07:45:34 am »

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Cosmopolitanism Will Win
Antonio V
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2019, 07:48:20 am »

This is one of the worst abortion laws in the world, with no protections for religious hospitals and severely limited conscience protections for doctors, as well as forcing taxpayers to pay for what many of them believe to be a genocide.

None of these provisions are anything close to unique in the world. It's only America and (I think?) Canada where FREE ABORTION Smiley Smiley Smiley basically acts as a regressive tax on poor women, mostly due to the ass-backwards way in which abortion was legalized in these countries.

More seriously, does someone have an objective rundown of the law's content? As someone who's happy for the news but hopes the government didn't go completely overboard with this, I'd appreciate it.
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2019, 10:19:15 am »

At the strike of midnight, Ireland experienced the worst tragedy it has ever seen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

But since there were no state-allowed abortions I guess it's small potatoes Smiley
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Devout Centrist
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« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2019, 11:07:17 am »

Quote
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You canít possibly be serious
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PSOL
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« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2019, 11:08:19 am »

At the strike of midnight, Ireland experienced the worst tragedy it has ever seen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

But since there were no state-allowed abortions I guess it's small potatoes Smiley
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Cokeland Saxton
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« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2019, 12:10:25 pm »

Sad to hear that they went down this path
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2019, 12:19:18 pm »
« Edited: January 01, 2019, 12:26:00 pm by DC Al Fine »

This is one of the worst abortion laws in the world, with no protections for religious hospitals and severely limited conscience protections for doctors, as well as forcing taxpayers to pay for what many of them believe to be a genocide.

None of these provisions are anything close to unique in the world. It's only America and (I think?) Canada where FREE ABORTION Smiley Smiley Smiley basically acts as a regressive tax on poor women, mostly due to the ass-backwards way in which abortion was legalized in these countries.

More seriously, does someone have an objective rundown of the law's content? As someone who's happy for the news but hopes the government didn't go completely overboard with this, I'd appreciate it.

I gave the bill a quick skim. Major provisions include:

1) Elective abortions are legal up to 12 weeks, with a three day waiting period
2) Exceptions up to birth for risks to the life and health of the mother, or if the baby is not expected to live outside the womb for 28 days.
3) Two physicians have to certify the abortions performed under #2, except for lifesaving care and the like.
4) The state will pay for abortions.
5) There is a (pretty weak) concientious objector clause for doctors and nurses who don't want to participate in abortions.
6) Women who obtain late term abortions are exempt from prosecution.
7) Abortionists who violate the law can be sentenced to prison for up to fourteen years

This is fairly restrained compared to the ridiculous Canadian model, particularly when it comes to 'extracurricular activities' like restrictions on pro-life protests or the Liberal government's outrageous attempt to require pro-life groups to sign a pro-abortion attestation. My understanding is that the law is also somewhat more conservative than most of Western Europe (but don't quote me on that).

So while today is a tragic day for Ireland, Canada remains the undisputed champion for awful abortion jurisprudence in the West.
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私はカーペットバッガーです
CELTICEMPIRE
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« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2019, 12:24:01 pm »

I was listening to Be Thou My Vision in the original Gaelic recently.  It's saddening how far Ireland, and most of Europe, has fallen.
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Cosmopolitanism Will Win
Antonio V
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« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2019, 01:43:31 pm »

This is one of the worst abortion laws in the world, with no protections for religious hospitals and severely limited conscience protections for doctors, as well as forcing taxpayers to pay for what many of them believe to be a genocide.

None of these provisions are anything close to unique in the world. It's only America and (I think?) Canada where FREE ABORTION Smiley Smiley Smiley basically acts as a regressive tax on poor women, mostly due to the ass-backwards way in which abortion was legalized in these countries.

More seriously, does someone have an objective rundown of the law's content? As someone who's happy for the news but hopes the government didn't go completely overboard with this, I'd appreciate it.

I gave the bill a quick skim. Major provisions include:

1) Elective abortions are legal up to 12 weeks, with a three day waiting period
2) Exceptions up to birth for risks to the life and health of the mother, or if the baby is not expected to live outside the womb for 28 days.
3) Two physicians have to certify the abortions performed under #2, except for lifesaving care and the like.
4) The state will pay for abortions.
5) There is a (pretty weak) concientious objector clause for doctors and nurses who don't want to participate in abortions.
6) Women who obtain late term abortions are exempt from prosecution.
7) Abortionists who violate the law can be sentenced to prison for up to fourteen years

This is fairly restrained compared to the ridiculous Canadian model, particularly when it comes to 'extracurricular activities' like restrictions on pro-life protests or the Liberal government's outrageous attempt to require pro-life groups to sign a pro-abortion attestation. My understanding is that the law is also somewhat more conservative than most of Western Europe (but don't quote me on that).

So while today is a tragic day for Ireland, Canada remains the undisputed champion for awful abortion jurisprudence in the West.

This seems to be somewhere in between France (which has fewer controls and some restrictions on attempts to prevent abortions) and Italy (which has stronger conscientious objection provisions) so more or less in the middle of West European legislation. The 12 weeks limit, in particular, seems to be the clear consensus the continent is coming to. So Ireland, like most European countries, will probably be spared the fanatical culture wars that rage on in North America. Wonderful news all around.
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Horus
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« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2019, 01:57:55 pm »

Awesome day in the great nation of Ireland!
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alancia
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« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2019, 06:15:18 pm »

Sad. I hope Ireland rectifies this mistake in the future.

On a related issue, I hope we reject abortion here like last year. Its practically confirmed that they will try to introduce that infamous bill once again - although it probably won't pass due to having the same Congress and it being an electoral year. Then, we can also elect a socially conservative President.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2019, 06:20:33 pm »

Sad. I hope Ireland rectifies this mistake in the future.

The mistake made in 1983 was already rectified in 2018.
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