US farmers helpless as TPP boosts Australia, Canada

[Landslide Lyndon]

But, but, but, Trumptards and Bernie bros had said to me that TPP was an evil, neoliberal plot that was designed to hurt America's working class.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/us-farmers-helpless-as-tpp-boosts-aust

US farmers, already hit hard by Trump's tariff battle with China and the lack of a free trade agreement with Japan, are bracing to immediately lose market share.

American wheat and beef producers have been particularly vocal.

They expect Australian farmers to use their TPP advantage to sell more to Japan.

"Japan is generally a market where we seek to maintain our strong 53 per cent market share, but today we face an imminent collapse," US Wheat Associates President Vince Peterson told a public hearing held by the US Trade Representative earlier this month.

"Frankly, this is because of provisions negotiated by (former US president Barack Obama's administration) for our benefit under the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

"Our competitors in Australia and Canada will now benefit from those provisions, as US farmers watch helplessly."

[dead0man]

I remember a time, long ago, when the GOP was the party that knew how trade worked, or at least acted like they did from time to time.  I mean sure, they had issues, but at least they knew free trade was (generally) good and tariffs were (generally) bad.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

In 2016, actual serious analysis of the TPP showed that agriculture would have been the sector of the American economy that would have best benefited from the deal. This was always true, just not part of the TPP discourse because it didn't matter for the election. Of course, agriculture is an industry dominated by Republicans, so the political benefit was disproportionately in an area where very few votes were put into play. Meanwhile, the largest sectors with potential downside in the deal were much swingier. This made the deal politically asymmetric.

[Santander]

Sorry, but American beef is just not desired in Asia where people strongly prefer Australian or New Zealand beef.

[pbrower2a]

American farmers are the people most likely to get burned in a tariff war. Farmers provide much of the material export of the United States. They are selling price-sensitive commodities, and if other countries are putting tariffs on American goods, then farmers are practically helpless.

Nobody really wins a trade war except for some speculators, smugglers, and the political opponents of those who start trade wars. Tariffs themselves are taxes -- bad taxes. The only rationale for a tariff is that tariffs fall heavily on consumers who have above-average incomes in an underdeveloped economy and who have more connections overseas than to the traditional subsistence economy. That applies to no country even in the early stages of industrial development, let alone fully-modern economies. An advanced economy might better rely upon income, property, and sales/use taxes.

The Smoot-Hawley tariff was an economic disaster; it might have aided Democratic victories from 1930 to 1936 (four Congressional elections and two Presidential elections) and sealed the political doom of Herbert Hoover. It may have also facilitated the rise of the Antichrist in Germany.

[Ban my account ffs!]

Sorry, but American beef is just not desired in Asia where people strongly prefer Australian or New Zealand beef.

New Zealand I understand...but that we can’t produce consistently far superior beef than that dried out husk of an island-continent probably means we deserve to lose market share.  Quality, not quantity, will save Murican boeuf.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Sorry, but American beef is just not desired in Asia where people strongly prefer Australian or New Zealand beef.

New Zealand I understand...but that we can’t produce consistently far superior beef than that dried out husk of an island-continent probably means we deserve to lose market share.  Quality, not quantity, will save Murican boeuf.

if we need quantity perhaps we can enlist Kavanaugh to export some boof

[7,052,770]

I remember a time, long ago, when the GOP was the party that knew how trade worked, or at least acted like they did from time to time.  I mean sure, they had issues, but at least they knew free trade was (generally) good and tariffs were (generally) bad.

Democrats figuring this out as Republicans forget it is a top 3 political development of this decade for sure.

[Alabama_Indy10]

I remember a time, long ago, when the GOP was the party that knew how trade worked, or at least acted like they did from time to time.  I mean sure, they had issues, but at least they knew free trade was (generally) good and tariffs were (generally) bad.

[Ban my account ffs!]

I remember a time, long ago, when the GOP was the party that knew how trade worked, or at least acted like they did from time to time.  I mean sure, they had issues, but at least they knew free trade was (generally) good and tariffs were (generally) bad.

Your complaining is worthless.  You will still vote for each and every one of them.

[Yellowhammer]

I remember a time, long ago, when the GOP was the party that knew how trade worked, or at least acted like they did from time to time.  I mean sure, they had issues, but at least they knew free trade was (generally) good and tariffs were (generally) bad.

Your complaining is worthless.  You will still vote for each and every one of them.

Indy voted for Doug Jones and Walt Maddox but okay...

[TPIG]

I remember a time, long ago, when the GOP was the party that knew how trade worked, or at least acted like they did from time to time.  I mean sure, they had issues, but at least they knew free trade was (generally) good and tariffs were (generally) bad.

Agreed, Trump has made the GOP lose its collective mind on trade, and now regular Americans, as well as our businesses, are paying the price.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I remember a time, long ago, when the GOP was the party that knew how trade worked, or at least acted like they did from time to time.  I mean sure, they had issues, but at least they knew free trade was (generally) good and tariffs were (generally) bad.

Agreed, Trump has made the GOP lose its collective mind on trade, and now regular Americans, as well as our businesses, are paying the price.

It would be poetic justice if the 1% lost because of Trump's trade wars every single penny they earned thanks to his tax cut.

[Free Bird]

I remember a time, long ago, when the GOP was the party that knew how trade worked, or at least acted like they did from time to time.  I mean sure, they had issues, but at least they knew free trade was (generally) good and tariffs were (generally) bad.

Agreed, Trump has made the GOP lose its collective mind on trade, and now regular Americans, as well as our businesses, are paying the price.

Dat neoliberalism tho. Tell that to someone whose job was outsourced because of a lack of reciprocity.

[Sumner 1868]

Want to know a secret? Ethanol isn't made of beef.

No wonder alt-centrists lose elections.

[JA]

Who the hell cares what happens to all the large agribusiness farms that mistreat their animals and pollute their lands with fertilizers anyway? Good, go out of business. Perhaps then we can refocus on the real, small farmers whose lives are being destroyed (what few remain).

[OSR stands with Israel]

This is not the fault of The GOP as a whole ,


Remember US could have passed TPP in 2015 but the Dems were the ones who blocked it

[TPIG]

I remember a time, long ago, when the GOP was the party that knew how trade worked, or at least acted like they did from time to time.  I mean sure, they had issues, but at least they knew free trade was (generally) good and tariffs were (generally) bad.

Agreed, Trump has made the GOP lose its collective mind on trade, and now regular Americans, as well as our businesses, are paying the price.

Dat neoliberalism tho. Tell that to someone whose job was outsourced because of a lack of reciprocity.

Tell that to the thousands of jobs that never get created due to increased supply-chain costs, caused by the trade war. Protectionism has a small number of very visible winners (workers in protected industries) and an enormous number of less visible losers (consumers and non-created jobs in many industries). On the same coin, free trade has a small group of visible losers and a huge group of less visible winners, making society overall better off. I'm all for establishing better job-training and re-purposing programs, but to abandon free trade, the main driver of our economic prosperity over the last several decades, would be a massive mistake.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Who the hell cares what happens to all the large agribusiness farms that mistreat their animals and pollute their lands with fertilizers anyway? Good, go out of business. Perhaps then we can refocus on the real, small farmers whose lives are being destroyed (what few remain).

Erm, you ever been on a farm, or met a farming family?

It's not just the big, industrial-scale farms that overuse fertilizer and abuse animals. There are tons of "real, small farmers" who mismanage their land and water, deplete their soil, use poor feed, grow monocultures, etc.

There are plenty of reasons to dislike big ag and the agglomeration of smaller farms into larger farms, but this post (per usual) reads like some weird, idealized fantasy from someone who has never met a farmer before. It would take a lot more than simply disaggregating larger farms to smaller parcels to solve these problems.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Want to know a secret? Ethanol isn't made of beef.

Did you even read the article? ... you should try it before talking about things you are so obviously clueless about. 

[Badger]

In any case, your "outrage" is hilarious. I'm supposed to be up and arms because a few agribusinesses aren't getting kickbacks from the TPP? Yeah, not happening.

You see, that's the attitude for Democrats to win back those rural hicks.

Why don't alt-centrists understand political geography?

Don't get me wrong, I wish your God Emperor King goes in Iowa with that mentality. In a few months he'll make Jim Gilmore's presidential campaign look like a juggernaut.

Want to know a secret? Ethanol isn't made of beef.

No wonder alt-centrists lose elections.

Ethanol also sucks as a policy. Just saying.

[Badger]

Want to know a secret? Ethanol isn't made of beef.

Did you even read the article? ... you should try it before talking about things you are so obviously clueless about. 

Dude. Chill.

[Sumner 1868]

you should try it before talking about things you are so obviously clueless about.  

You were the one that brought up the Iowa caucus in an article about wheat and beef agribusinesses whining.

[Brittain33]

This is a very rare issue where "both sides do it" is actually true in U.S. politics. Bernie and his fans demagogued the TPP because of IP issues and muh big corporations, and so we were left with no one to defend a treaty that actually enhanced American power and influence.

[dead0man]

But there's not much to say in response to free trade cultists who have convinced themselves that a country's ability to feed its population holds no importance.

In 2018?  If you're friendly?  Sure, if it's 1853 or you like to play asshole with your neighbors, yeah, it's no doubt better to be able to feed your own people from inside your borders if need be.

But if you're Japan, Singapore, the UK?  meh, they'll be fine unless the entire world goes to sh**t.