Claire McCaskill’s Bitter Farewell

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

While AOC obviously hasn't done anything in Congress yet (of course, she hasn't even been sworn in yet) apparently she has 1.2 million Instagram followers.  She certainly is doing something right.

Paris Hilton has 1.2 million Instagram followers.

Paris Hilton has been a "celebrity" for how many years?

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Cortez's repeated gaffes and her lack of knowledge on a great many topics has lowered my opinion of her.

It's clear that Republicans don't know what to do with her and find themselves angry, frustrated, and confounded in how to respond.

This is your response? Am I supposed to worship at Ocasio-Cortez's altar? And at the altars of all other Democratic politicians? Ocasio-Cortez is someone who is far to the left of me ideologically-my objections to her are on both policy and personal grounds.

Fuzzy Bear. He gets far worse treatment from many of the posters on here than he should.

The King of the strawman in my opinion; along with yourself unfortunately.

Really? Because I'm not a partisan left-wing hack? If I were, I would probably be on good terms with the majority of this forum.

You both constantly claim Democrats are for things that we clearly aren't and then demand we defend those positions; it's all very frustrating.

Lol.

[Fuzzy Bear]

While AOC obviously hasn't done anything in Congress yet (of course, she hasn't even been sworn in yet) apparently she has 1.2 million Instagram followers.  She certainly is doing something right.

Paris Hilton has 1.2 million Instagram followers.

Paris Hilton has been a "celebrity" for how many years?

In a perfect world, you'd be asking "for how many minutes?". 

Perhaps I'm old school, but I'm not impressed.  When AOC demonstrates an ability to facilitate workable solutions to public policy problems and get some enacted, however modest, then will I have some regard for her as someone with public accomplishments.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

While AOC obviously hasn't done anything in Congress yet (of course, she hasn't even been sworn in yet) apparently she has 1.2 million Instagram followers.  She certainly is doing something right.

Paris Hilton has 1.2 million Instagram followers.

Paris Hilton has been a "celebrity" for how many years?

In a perfect world, you'd be asking "for how many minutes?". 

Perhaps I'm old school, but I'm not impressed.  When AOC demonstrates an ability to facilitate workable solutions to public policy problems and get some enacted, however modest, then will I have some regard for her as someone with public accomplishments.

You are old school; because you don't understand how important outreach on social networks is to modern politics any more. Just look at Trump, while I'd argue Obama was the first President to capitalize on it successfully, - and sadly Trump has been using it to spread his vile message, but still, to massive effectiveness.

Also, she hasn't even taken office yet. Will you all just give her a few months. It's astounding.

[Calthrina950]

Cortez's repeated gaffes and her lack of knowledge on a great many topics has lowered my opinion of her.

It's clear that Republicans don't know what to do with her and find themselves angry, frustrated, and confounded in how to respond.

This is your response? Am I supposed to worship at Ocasio-Cortez's altar? And at the altars of all other Democratic politicians? Ocasio-Cortez is someone who is far to the left of me ideologically-my objections to her are on both policy and personal grounds.

Fuzzy Bear. He gets far worse treatment from many of the posters on here than he should.

The King of the strawman in my opinion; along with yourself unfortunately.

Really? Because I'm not a partisan left-wing hack? If I were, I would probably be on good terms with the majority of this forum.

You both constantly claim Democrats are for things that we clearly aren't and then demand we defend those positions; it's all very frustrating.

Lol.

How did this prove your point?

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

Cortez's repeated gaffes and her lack of knowledge on a great many topics has lowered my opinion of her.

It's clear that Republicans don't know what to do with her and find themselves angry, frustrated, and confounded in how to respond.

This is your response? Am I supposed to worship at Ocasio-Cortez's altar? And at the altars of all other Democratic politicians? Ocasio-Cortez is someone who is far to the left of me ideologically-my objections to her are on both policy and personal grounds.

Fuzzy Bear. He gets far worse treatment from many of the posters on here than he should.

The King of the strawman in my opinion; along with yourself unfortunately.

Really? Because I'm not a partisan left-wing hack? If I were, I would probably be on good terms with the majority of this forum.

You both constantly claim Democrats are for things that we clearly aren't and then demand we defend those positions; it's all very frustrating.

Lol.

How did this prove your point?

Not a single Democrat here 'Worships at the Altar of Ocasio-Cortez' or any other Democratic politician. Or ever, even remotely, suggested that you should, - despite your repeated attempts to paint Democrats with inane hyperbole. You know how it made my point, you're just playing dumb. Needlessly frustrating.

[Landslide Lyndon]

While AOC obviously hasn't done anything in Congress yet (of course, she hasn't even been sworn in yet) apparently she has 1.2 million Instagram followers.  She certainly is doing something right.

Paris Hilton has 1.2 million Instagram followers.

Paris Hilton has been a "celebrity" for how many years?

In a perfect world, you'd be asking "for how many minutes?". 

Perhaps I'm old school, but I'm not impressed.  When AOC demonstrates an ability to facilitate workable solutions to public policy problems and get some enacted, however modest, then will I have some regard for her as someone with public accomplishments.

You are so self-righteous you can't even comprehend how hilarious it is for a Trump fanboy like you to accuse another politician of being a "celebrity".

 personal attacks

[Fuzzy Bear]

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/12/claire-mccaskill-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-interviews-abortion.html'

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She's 29 years old. What had McCaskill gotten done at 29? And she's just been elected for Christ sake! What do these people expect of AOC, for her to fix all our issues and make good on every promise before she's even held her first elected office?

Apparently the right wing obsession with AOC doesn't just extend to the right. Honestly makes me lose a lot of respect for McCaskill. So much for a classy exit.

There was no reason to challenge Crowley in a primary other than (A) personal ambition and (B) the belief that the district "needed" to be represented by a member of a minority group.  Crowley was a part of the Democratic leadership, and there was no reason whatsoever, outside of personal ambition, to challenge him in a primary, from a partisan point of view.

What really, other than ethnicity, was the burning issue in the Crowley-AOC primary?  What position did Crowley take that was out of sync with the national Democratic Party, a party in which he was in the inner circle of leadership?

AOC is a mediocrity at this point.  She hasn't done anything of real substance, and if she were white/non-Hispanic, with everything else going for her, she'd have likely been buried in the primary.  Maybe she'll grow into the role.  She's often compared to Elizabeth Holtzman, the 31 year old 1972 challenger to Emmanuel Celler, who had been in Congress since the Harding Administration and was the 84 year old chair of the House Judiciary Committee.  (If he had won in 1972, Celler, and not Peter Rodino, would have chaired the House Judiciary Committee during the 1974 Nixon Impeachment hearingss.)  Holtzman, however, had far more going for her than AOC did at her age in terms of personal accomplishment, and Celler was an 84 year old who was out of touch with the Democratic Party on key issues (he was  an obstacle to the ratification of the Equal Rights Amendment and was a latecomer to the anti-war movement).  Crowley was in his prime, and was in line with the Democratic Party down the line; he checked all the boxes.  Crowley's district was represented by a leader in Congress; on January 3 of next year, they'll be represented by a backbencher.  In no way was AOC's effort a "merit-based" challenge.  

You've been told 500 fycking times by multiple people so stop purposely being a dense moron. Ideologically Crowley was atrocious, Cortez is good. As stated again, Cortez won whites in NY-14 and did better with whites than she did among people of colour (not that anything would have changed if the inverse was correct.)

So, no Cortez's challenge was not based upon merit, which is an overrated concept in politics, it was based on ideology, the most important concept in politics.

How is AOC so radically different than Crowley?  It's not like the Carter-Kennedy challenge in 1980?  It's not like Specter-Murphy for the GOP, or Javits-D'Amato.

Joe Crowely= Chair of the New Democrat Coalition
AOC=  Congressional Progressive Caucus, single-payer healthcare etc

Literally two different wings of the democratic party.

The "wings" of the Democratic Party aren't as different as when I was active in the Democratic Party.  Then, you had one "wing" that had James Eastland and Herman Talmadge, a "wing" that included Henry Jackson and Gale McGee (hawkish liberals), a "wing" that included HHH and Edmund Muskie (traditional liberals) and a "wing" that included the McGovern-Fraser reformers. 

There is nowhere near the chasms between factions of Democrats now as there were then.  In 1970, John Stennis, James Eastland, James B. Allen, John Sparkmen, Herman Talmadge, Russell Long, John McClellan, Allen Ellender, and Richard Russell were Democratic Senators.   There are no such figures in the Democratic Party today. 

If AOC and Crowley were like McGovern and Eastland, that would be one thing, but it's not.  Furthermore, NY is a state that traditionally gets the short shrift in terms of their share of Federal Dollars.  Crowley isas the only NY member of Congress that was in line to be in the leadership of the majority party in this Congress.  It's not happening now, of course.

I don't care about the past, the ideological underpinnings between the new Democrats and the CPC ideologically different amount for every new democrat to face a primary challenge, and are greater than the different strands of liberalism you mentioned.

The Eastland/Sennis/Talmadge etc. crowd wasn't a strand of liberalixm on its best day.

Fuzzy. While your historical analysis is....technically correct for what it is, can you kindly accept that it has f*#k all to do with political analysis for 2018?

What it has to do with 2018 and 2020 is that the Democratic Party nowadays have far narrower gaps to bridge between its various wings, and they are not in a position where one of their wings is closer, ideologically, to the GOP than to the NATIONAL Democratic Party.  There is no longer a viable wing of Southern Conservatives with a very tenuous relationship to the National Democratic Party that pulls the party rightward, or makes it difficult to unite the entire party around a liberal Presidential candidate.

The issue differences between AOC and Crowley weren't so great as to justify a primary challenge.  Now if I were a Democratic elected official, I would not enjoy a primary challenge, but I'd certainly understand why it was happening.  I would be the kind of Democrat who would often be in a position where I the Democrats would be lucky if I made a statement to the effect that I was voting for the Presidential candidate but was not campaigning with him/her.  Once there were a number of Democrats with my issue-set, even in New York. 

[Fuzzy Bear]

While AOC obviously hasn't done anything in Congress yet (of course, she hasn't even been sworn in yet) apparently she has 1.2 million Instagram followers.  She certainly is doing something right.

Paris Hilton has 1.2 million Instagram followers.

Paris Hilton has been a "celebrity" for how many years?

In a perfect world, you'd be asking "for how many minutes?". 

Perhaps I'm old school, but I'm not impressed.  When AOC demonstrates an ability to facilitate workable solutions to public policy problems and get some enacted, however modest, then will I have some regard for her as someone with public accomplishments.

You are so self-righteous you can't even comprehend how hilarious it is for a Trump fanboy like you to accuse another politician of being a "celebrity".

Is that Mr. Massengill?

[Fuzzy Bear]

While AOC obviously hasn't done anything in Congress yet (of course, she hasn't even been sworn in yet) apparently she has 1.2 million Instagram followers.  She certainly is doing something right.

Paris Hilton has 1.2 million Instagram followers.

Paris Hilton has been a "celebrity" for how many years?

In a perfect world, you'd be asking "for how many minutes?". 

Perhaps I'm old school, but I'm not impressed.  When AOC demonstrates an ability to facilitate workable solutions to public policy problems and get some enacted, however modest, then will I have some regard for her as someone with public accomplishments.

You are so self-righteous you can't even comprehend how hilarious it is for a Trump fanboy like you to accuse another politician of being a "celebrity".

Who farted?

[Suburbia]

McCaskill's political career is over in a sense, unless she runs for Missouri governor in 2020.

She will be the elder stateswoman of the MO Dem Party.

AOC can't win in the Midwest and South, places where Obama and Clinton did well in.

[No War, but the War on Christmas]

AOC can't win in the Midwest and South, places where Obama and Clinton did well in.

Luckily she's a congresswoman from New York City? Lmbo.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Plus she’s just a bartender who accidentally won what started out as a vanity campaign. She needs to be primaried or have her mouth duct taped shut.

So you're not a fan of AOC and would prefer if she hadn't won, that's fine, but your "argument" above (aside of being factually incorrect, given she'd been doing other things after working as a bartender for some time after college) was perhaps the most deplorable thing I've heard from a Democrat. What kind of Democrat would use somebody working as a bartender to make ends meet when her family was literally struggling to keep afloat as a line of attack?

[jamestroll]

Missouri is just a lost cause under current coalitions. It is that simple.

[Calthrina950]

Missouri is just a lost cause under current coalitions. It is that simple.

I have a question for you. Do you think Galloway might be the last winning statewide Democrat in Missouri for the next few decades? Is the state that far gone for the Democrats?

[Badger]

AOC is the Sarah Palin of the left

[Antonio the Sixth]

This is making me less sad that she lost, honestly. It's still tragic we lost a Democratic seat, but at this point I couldn't care less about McCaskill's personal fate. Her breed of Democrats is dying and the party will be better off for it.

[gottsu]

Guys, it's not the first time, and definitely not the last one, when some politician is haunted by his or her ambition, especially when he or she lost an election. I mean, there is nothing curious in her statement, nothing new, but we can just mention that she said this or that at the end of her Senate's career, but at the end of the day most of us will completely forget about her words.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Does McCaskill seriously think she would've won has she run further to the right?

Don't take me wrong, I think it's a shame she lost, but such classless farewell act is just pathetic.

[Badger]

Does McCaskill seriously think she would've won has she run further to the right?

Don't take me wrong, I think it's a shame she lost, but such classless farewell act is just pathetic.

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

I do understand what McCaskill is getting at. Many on the left have fallen for AOC's understandably appealing policy platform without adequate consideration for legislative logistics or political convention. We have absolutely no way to know for sure that AOC will be a remotely effective legislator, and thus I find the glorification of her a bit premature. I didn't particularly like the fact that AOC was campaigning cross-country before even winning election to her own district; obviously, that's her prerogative given the national profile that she accumulated and given that she didn't need to focus on her own district to win, but it rubbed me the wrong way. Additionally, AOC's response to McCaskill's criticism was terribly lacking in political nuance; suggesting that the passage of a minimum wage increase indicates that it takes a more liberal candidate to win a federal race in Missouri is a pretty objectively bad take.

However, McCaskill absolutely should not have used the terms she did to describe AOC; in general, I don't like any person calling another person an "object" or a "thing," unless that person is objectively reprehensible (while AOC is just a political dissenter). I don't know why McCaskill even felt the need to discuss AOC in the first place, especially in such a hostile way; I really don't want to think that it's partially out of bitterness from her own loss, but it does somewhat appear that way. (Not to mention that I think that AOC's critics are only bringing her more attention and appreciation the more that they incessantly talk about her.) Also, in defense of AOC, just as I said that we should not excessively praise her before she proves herself in Congress, we should not tear her down before we give her a shot at legislating. Maybe she'll prove to be more effective than some of us worry she will be.

[jamestroll]

Missouri is just a lost cause under current coalitions. It is that simple.

I have a question for you. Do you think Galloway might be the last winning statewide Democrat in Missouri for the next few decades? Is the state that far gone for the Democrats?

Probably but we do have several credibe candidates such as State Senator Scott Sifton who are exploring statewide executive runs in 2020 and if the legislature over reaches who knows what may happen.

But the ballot measure results and Galloway's small victory in Missouri shows just how much demographics matter in voting today.

[free my dawg]

Republicans: measuring your own reaction to an effective Democratic legislator and deciding you don't like her does not mean she's become "a negative" overall. What might be more relevant is if she inspires people who are disengaged from politics and achieves measurable accomplishments in the House. It sure looks like she's doing both although she hasn't taken office yet. We'll see what happens in the next few months.

I really think AOC is becoming the Sarah Palin of the left. She’s not well-articulate and has become a focal hate target of the right. Plus she’s just a bartender who accidentally won what started out as a vanity campaign. She needs to be primaried or have her mouth duct taped shut.

I actually agree with you on this, which is something I didn't think possible.

She's a negative for the Democrats at this point, and she's worked to become one.

This much is true. I've come around to the viewpoint that Crowley should have won his primary back in June. And it's alarming to think that so many believe that Cortez is the "future" of the Democratic Party.

These people know what they're doing. Notice how everyone expressing "concern" over AOC is on the right wing.

[gottsu]

Missouri is just a lost cause under current coalitions. It is that simple.

how much demographics matter in voting today.

Also ethnicity matters. These two things are key to American politics and elections.

And what do you think about Galloway?

[Calthrina950]

Republicans: measuring your own reaction to an effective Democratic legislator and deciding you don't like her does not mean she's become "a negative" overall. What might be more relevant is if she inspires people who are disengaged from politics and achieves measurable accomplishments in the House. It sure looks like she's doing both although she hasn't taken office yet. We'll see what happens in the next few months.

I really think AOC is becoming the Sarah Palin of the left. She’s not well-articulate and has become a focal hate target of the right. Plus she’s just a bartender who accidentally won what started out as a vanity campaign. She needs to be primaried or have her mouth duct taped shut.

I actually agree with you on this, which is something I didn't think possible.

She's a negative for the Democrats at this point, and she's worked to become one.

This much is true. I've come around to the viewpoint that Crowley should have won his primary back in June. And it's alarming to think that so many believe that Cortez is the "future" of the Democratic Party.

These people know what they're doing. Notice how everyone expressing "concern" over AOC is on the right wing.

If you want me to get down on my knees and say Cortez is the best politician ever, I'm not going to do it.