Congressional Special Election (last call! unstickied after NY-27 final results)

[Badger]

lmbo:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

fwiw, Lutz does come up as a Democrat in a search of NC's voter registrations: https://vt.ncsbe.gov/RegLkup/

Roy moore was a Democrat when he molested those girls

He was also a far right-wing conservative too. Your point?

[Badger]

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-ballot-harvesting-20181207-story.html

I mean how can ballot harvesting be considered something good? I take the position of the LA time editorial except for the ca21st where it almost certainly flipped it but idc about that. I just don't think people should be allowed to collect another's ballot to deliver it to the election board.

I wasn't talking about that lol

It was in response to jim's musing that we basically disallow absentee voting (mail) in almost all cases except when they are out of county, which is a patently absurd proposal.

I'm not fundamentally against not allowing "ballot harvesting." But it was already illegal in North Carolina, which, as I stated in my post, was evidently a law that was never enforced for god knows what reason. So my question to you is, if it's already illegal and they are still doing it, what do you do then? State authorities and election boards apparently abdicated their duty to run fraud-free elections here.

oh I just ignored jimtrex lol.

I haven't ignored him per se, but I absolutely just scroll past his wall of text meanderings. It's very sad to see a generally quality poster revert to such obstinate hackishness.

[Sestak]

lmbo:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

fwiw, Lutz does come up as a Democrat in a search of NC's voter registrations: https://vt.ncsbe.gov/RegLkup/

Roy moore was a Democrat when he molested those girls

He was also a far right-wing conservative too. Your point?

That is the point. He's calling Lutz a dixiecrat.

[lfromnj]

lmbo:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

fwiw, Lutz does come up as a Democrat in a search of NC's voter registrations: https://vt.ncsbe.gov/RegLkup/

Roy moore was a Democrat when he molested those girls

He was also a far right-wing conservative too. Your point?

That was my point

[Badger]

lmbo:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

fwiw, Lutz does come up as a Democrat in a search of NC's voter registrations: https://vt.ncsbe.gov/RegLkup/

Roy moore was a Democrat when he molested those girls

He was also a far right-wing conservative too. Your point?

That was my point

Got it. Sometimes with text it's tough to pick up on sarcasm / irony.

[jimrtex]

Because you don't just end a major voting service like absentee voting at the first sign of trouble. Although when it comes to elections, I guess that is a very typical blue avatar response, many of whom never wanted early/absentee voting to begin with.

In North Carolina perhaps 2-3% of voters vote absentee. It is hardly a major voting service.

Try again to provide a reason.

[jimrtex]

lmbo:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

fwiw, Lutz does come up as a Democrat in a search of NC's voter registrations: https://vt.ncsbe.gov/RegLkup/

Roy moore was a Democrat when he molested those girls

He was also a far right-wing conservative too. Your point?

That is the point. He's calling Lutz a dixiecrat.

Ken Lutz was Prentis Benston's campaign manager. Prentis Benston was the first black sheriff in Bladen County.

[brucejoel99]

Because you don't just end a major voting service like absentee voting at the first sign of trouble. Although when it comes to elections, I guess that is a very typical blue avatar response, many of whom never wanted early/absentee voting to begin with.

In North Carolina perhaps 2-3% of voters vote absentee. It is hardly a major voting service.

Try again to provide a reason.

3% of 3,000,000 voters is 100,000 voters, hardly a non-major amount of voters.

Try again to provide a reason.

[Virginiá]

Because you don't just end a major voting service like absentee voting at the first sign of trouble. Although when it comes to elections, I guess that is a very typical blue avatar response, many of whom never wanted early/absentee voting to begin with.

In North Carolina perhaps 2-3% of voters vote absentee. It is hardly a major voting service.

Try again to provide a reason.

So, for 2016, 2.5% of the Trump+Clinton's votes is rougly 113,798 votes. Just end that service entirely, without at least trying an aggressive law enforcement strategy first (right - I don't care about muh Cooper and muh Democrat AG, I'm sure the NC GA could get/could have gotten their way if they wanted). No thanks!

I don't know what you'd expect here anyway, I lean heavily towards easy, accessible voting services, so I would never endorse such an approach without exhausting every other approach first. I don't even know why someone neutral to election law would either. It doesn't make any sense. What they did is illegal, and why the law was never enforced here was never addressed, so instead of trying to resolve that problem, we just go and end the service altogether? Wow, what a lazy and, I must say, very conservative approach.

So no, I won't try again.

edit: 2016 absentee by mail turnout was 3.8%

[The Mikado]

Might I suggest something totally outlandish as a hot take?

What's going on right now in NC is actually a sign that the system works if you let it work. What Harris' campaign did was against the law and they got caught and Harris' people look likely to face legal sanction while the election seems extremely likely to head to a revote. Perhaps what it shows is that we really need the eagle-eyed nerds of Data Twitter and the hard-working SBOEs like NCs to solve these suspicious discrepancies when they show up.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Might I suggest something totally outlandish as a hot take?

What's going on right now in NC is actually a sign that the system works if you let it work. What Harris' campaign did was against the law and they got caught and Harris' people look likely to face legal sanction while the election seems extremely likely to head to a revote. Perhaps what it shows is that we really need the eagle-eyed nerds of Data Twitter and the hard-working SBOEs like NCs to solve these suspicious discrepancies when they show up.

^^^^

[Badger]

Might I suggest something totally outlandish as a hot take?

What's going on right now in NC is actually a sign that the system works if you let it work. What Harris' campaign did was against the law and they got caught and Harris' people look likely to face legal sanction while the election seems extremely likely to head to a revote. Perhaps what it shows is that we really need the eagle-eyed nerds of Data Twitter and the hard-working SBOEs like NCs to solve these suspicious discrepancies when they show up.

^^^^

[TomC]

Might I suggest something totally outlandish as a hot take?

What's going on right now in NC is actually a sign that the system works if you let it work. What Harris' campaign did was against the law and they got caught and Harris' people look likely to face legal sanction while the election seems extremely likely to head to a revote. Perhaps what it shows is that we really need the eagle-eyed nerds of Data Twitter and the hard-working SBOEs like NCs to solve these suspicious discrepancies when they show up.

^^^^

Agreed to a point: Seems like it would have worked better if they nipped it in the bud after 2016. Didn’t Dowless even testify to the state board about his absentee ballot activities as he was asserting Dems were doing hinky things? Even if charges weren’t filed against him, seems like it was enough to put a stop to it. And again, Harris’ outlier 96% of absentees in the primary- shouldn’t that have been a flag looking forward to the general?

So, yeah, the system *seems* to be working. Finally.

[GeorgiaModerate]

Might I suggest something totally outlandish as a hot take?

What's going on right now in NC is actually a sign that the system works if you let it work. What Harris' campaign did was against the law and they got caught and Harris' people look likely to face legal sanction while the election seems extremely likely to head to a revote. Perhaps what it shows is that we really need the eagle-eyed nerds of Data Twitter and the hard-working SBOEs like NCs to solve these suspicious discrepancies when they show up.

^^^^

Agreed to a point: Seems like it would have worked better if they nipped it in the bud after 2016. Didn’t Dowless even testify to the state board about his absentee ballot activities as he was asserting Dems were doing hinky things? Even if charges weren’t filed against him, seems like it was enough to put a stop to it. And again, Harris’ outlier 96% of absentees in the primary- shouldn’t that have been a flag looking forward to the general?

So, yeah, the system *seems* to be working. Finally.

I also agree to a point.  It's good that this was caught, but it's obvious it's been going on for some time.  And how many other districts in NC and other states have had similar situations that haven't been caught?

I totally support maximizing the access and convenience of voting, but we also need to maximize election integrity and security.  It's clear that there is a potential for significant abuse of absentee ballots.   I wouldn't support ending absentee balloting, but we need to make it more secure.

[jimrtex]

Because you don't just end a major voting service like absentee voting at the first sign of trouble. Although when it comes to elections, I guess that is a very typical blue avatar response, many of whom never wanted early/absentee voting to begin with.

In North Carolina perhaps 2-3% of voters vote absentee. It is hardly a major voting service.

Try again to provide a reason.

So, for 2016, 2.5% of the Trump+Clinton's votes is rougly 113,798 votes. Just end that service entirely, without at least trying an aggressive law enforcement strategy first (right - I don't care about muh Cooper and muh Democrat AG, I'm sure the NC GA could get/could have gotten their way if they wanted). No thanks!

I don't know what you'd expect here anyway, I lean heavily towards easy, accessible voting services, so I would never endorse such an approach without exhausting every other approach first. I don't even know why someone neutral to election law would either. It doesn't make any sense. What they did is illegal, and why the law was never enforced here was never addressed, so instead of trying to resolve that problem, we just go and end the service altogether? Wow, what a lazy and, I must say, very conservative approach.

edit: 2016 absentee by mail turnout was 3.8%

4.5 million voted in person in North Carolina in 2016. It must not be easy and accessible if only 4.5 million voted - that seems to be what you are arguing.

When a voter votes in person there can be watched by partisan observers, and (hopefully) neutral election officials that make sure the voter is who they say they are, and that it is the voter who is marking their own ballot. If a voter needs assistance, it can be given by an election judge, or if the assistant is chosen by the voter, there can be some assurance that the assistant is acting as the voter's agent and not the other way around.

Campaigners are free to bring voters who they hope will support their candidates to the polls, but they will be observed when voting.

Now compare with absentee voting. You have campaigners out locating persons who are unlikely to vote, and help them apply for a ballot, and then come back and "witness" them. The witness is supposed to make sure that it is the voter marking the ballot, but not how it is being marked. The witness also bring sample ballots, and sometimes assist the voter - supposedly at the direction of the voter.

It is susceptible to corruption and simply not needed.

I'm not sure why you refer to voting as a "service".

Who is "they" and what did they do that was illegal?

[Virginiá]

It is susceptible to corruption and simply not needed.

Like I said, a "solution" from a person who doesn't want it to begin with

wrt to your other questions:

serv·ice
a system supplying a public need such as transport, communications, or utilities such as electricity and water.

In this case, it's just one part of a larger system. No need to nitpick. I'm well aware it's not a common phrase for a method of voting. I don't care.

Are you really asking 'they' in a thread about election fraud by Dowless & friends (and to a lesser extent, some other Dem-aligned group), using techniques that are already not allowed? You can't just fill out people's ballots and submit them yourself. Nor forge their signatures. Nor collect & deliver absentee ballots from people who you aren't related to or a guardian of. Nor collect and destroy them. I had mentioned something about this earlier in the thread, and you responded with something about Cooper not wanting to investigate, so you seemed to get it then.

Why are you asking? So I say something that might be incorrect, and you immediately start pouring over NC criminal law so you can write a 10 page post about why I'm wrong?

-

tbh I shouldn't have responded, since we're just going in circles. I've said all I have to say.

[RogueBeaver]

https://twitter.com/ryanobles/status/1072247268416413697

[jimrtex]

Might I suggest something totally outlandish as a hot take?

What's going on right now in NC is actually a sign that the system works if you let it work. What Harris' campaign did was against the law and they got caught and Harris' people look likely to face legal sanction while the election seems extremely likely to head to a revote. Perhaps what it shows is that we really need the eagle-eyed nerds of Data Twitter and the hard-working SBOEs like NCs to solve these suspicious discrepancies when they show up.

^^^^

Agreed to a point: Seems like it would have worked better if they nipped it in the bud after 2016. Didn’t Dowless even testify to the state board about his absentee ballot activities as he was asserting Dems were doing hinky things? Even if charges weren’t filed against him, seems like it was enough to put a stop to it. And again, Harris’ outlier 96% of absentees in the primary- shouldn’t that have been a flag looking forward to the general?

So, yeah, the system *seems* to be working. Finally.

Hakeem Brown got 120 of 121 absentee votes in the primary for sheriff.

[jimrtex]

Might I suggest something totally outlandish as a hot take?

What's going on right now in NC is actually a sign that the system works if you let it work. What Harris' campaign did was against the law and they got caught and Harris' people look likely to face legal sanction while the election seems extremely likely to head to a revote. Perhaps what it shows is that we really need the eagle-eyed nerds of Data Twitter and the hard-working SBOEs like NCs to solve these suspicious discrepancies when they show up.

^^^^

Agreed to a point: Seems like it would have worked better if they nipped it in the bud after 2016. Didn’t Dowless even testify to the state board about his absentee ballot activities as he was asserting Dems were doing hinky things? Even if charges weren’t filed against him, seems like it was enough to put a stop to it. And again, Harris’ outlier 96% of absentees in the primary- shouldn’t that have been a flag looking forward to the general?

So, yeah, the system *seems* to be working. Finally.

I also agree to a point.  It's good that this was caught, but it's obvious it's been going on for some time.  And how many other districts in NC and other states have had similar situations that haven't been caught?

I totally support maximizing the access and convenience of voting, but we also need to maximize election integrity and security.  It's clear that there is a potential for significant abuse of absentee ballots.   I wouldn't support ending absentee balloting, but we need to make it more secure.

How would you make it more secure?

[RogueBeaver]

BOE might not finish by the 21st.

[jimrtex]

BOE might not finish by the 21st.

Harris has intervened in the court action to keep the Bipartisan NCSBE in place.

The stay was until the Bipartisan NCSBE had certified the results. If they don't certify the results it is not known what will happen.

Malcolm's motion specifically said that the hearing would be by the board as "then constituted".

But it would look really bad (to fair-minded persons) if Cooper tried to push his Democrat-dominated board in place before a decision was made.

[jimrtex]

https://twitter.com/NickOchsnerWBTV/status/1070044877298249728

Quite interesting!

Jeff Smith is portrayed as some sort of whistleblower in the general election.

North Carolina election-fraud investigation centers on operative with criminal history who worked for GOP congressional candidate

But in the primary election, Billy Ward, the candidate favored by Jeff Smith, got 55% of all his votes from absentee ballots. Jim McVicker, the  candidate supported by McRae Dowless got 92% of the election day votes, but only 55% of the absentee vote.

McVickers is the incumbent sheriff and this race would include NC7 house voters, where, I assume, Dowless wasn’t offered a $40k bonus. I think McVickers’ opponent was an African American man. Recall the African American woman’s affidavit where she had filled in two local races but left the others (including NC9) blank?

Biily Ward is a Republican. In 2010 he ran as a petition candidate for sheriff. The old sheriff had retired, and two members of his staff, a captain and a lieutenant were running to replace him. Neither got 40% of the vote in the Democrat primary and so there was a runoff. A black Democratic county commissioner Delilah Banks, who was the ex-mother-in-law of Prentis Benston, one of the candidates, tried to vote twice. She voted at one early voting place and then a couple of days later tried to vote an another and was denied. She claimed she was testing the system, and had talked to the elections director about it. He said he hadn't talked to her. She then said that she didn't need the permission of the elections director to test the system, and she had a duty to do so (i.e. it doesn't matter if I had an imaginary conversation, since I didn't need to have any conversation at all).

The opposing candidate, Eric Bryan, had been granted an unpaid leave of absence to run for sheriff by the incumbent sheriff, Steve Bunn. But the county commissioners on the motion of Delilah Banks, voted to deny him a leave of absence. Prentis Benston won the Democratic nomination.

The sheriff who was not running for re-election decided to retire before the end of his term. His replacement was Earl Storms who had been Sheriff from 1976-1994. Storms refused to rehire Bryan and 4 other deputies. When some commissioners wanted to remove Storms, he said that only God and a judge could remove him.

Benston then defeated Ward in the general election to become the first black sheriff of Bladen County.

In 2014, Jeff Smith contributed $5800 to Jim McVicker because Benston had tried so stop Smith's sweepstakes games. McVicker was elected, despite Benston receiving more absentee ballots (11.5% of Benston's votes were absentee, vs 8.0% for McVickers). Despite the campaign contributions from Smith, McVickers suppressed Smith's sweepstakes business. That is the reason given by Smith for supporting Billy Ward and Hakeem Brown in 2018.

In 2018, Ward ran against McVickers in the Republican primary. Ward was easily defeated by McVickers 2089 to 378. But remarkably, 211 of Ward's 378 votes were absentee. McVicker received 91.9% of in-person voted. but only 54.7% of the absentee votes. Dowless supported McVicker, but Smith supported Ward. This supposedly cause the friendship to break.

Meanwhile in the Democratic primary, Hakeem Brown received 120 of 121 absentee ballots. Brown did receive 79.2% of the in person votes, but 99.2% of absentee votes is quite remarkable.

McVickers defeated Brown in the 2018 general election. 6.2% of McVicker's votes were absentee, vs. 6.9% of Brown's.

Who is running the absentee voting mills in Bladen County?

[RogueBeaver]

https://twitter.com/NickOchsnerWBTV/status/1072538777292279809

[ajc0918]

https://twitter.com/NickOchsnerWBTV/status/1072538777292279809

If the GOP is caving you know it's worse than what has been revealed.

[InheritTheWind]

https://twitter.com/NickOchsnerWBTV/status/1072538777292279809

Somehow jimrtex and Bagel are going to bury their heads in the sand still