🇩🇪 German elections (federal & EU level)

[CumbrianLefty]

I'm not sure if anybody or anything can save the SPD in its current form, but have an especially hard time believing another exponent of the "third way" is the answer.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

That said, in other news Olaf Scholz will run with Klara Geywitz, Landtag Member for Brandenburg. She was one of the instrumental negotiators for Grand Coalition agreement. So the message of Scholz-Geywitz is very clear: Vote for us to continue the Grand Coalition and stay on the current path. The left-wingers opposing them will argue for a change.
This could be the dividing line. Will there be any reason for the leftists like Comrade Kevin to stay in the SPD if Scholz wins? I personally dont see any (I am heavily biased, of course). His win would cement the centrist control in the SPD.

And Scholz was predicted to do that and he's being heavily criticized for doing that.
There's one word I've read numerous times in this context: "Quotenlieschen".
He just took an utterly and completely unknown woman, just to fulfill the unwritten female quota of the that self-proclaimed feminist party.

https://twitter.com/En24News/status/1163783039765438465
That being said, two influential SPD members stated today that they would finally and absolutely refrain from a candidacy: General Secretary Lars Klingbeil and Lower Saxon Governor Stephan Weil, the latter of whom criticized the selection procedure as too tedious and protracted last weekend.
And we finally have our first endorsement: The SPD Lower Saxony endorses its state's Interior Minister Boris Pistorius and his running mate Petra Köpping.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Aaaaaaaaand we (are about to) have another contestant: late-night comedian and Sultan Erdogan's best buddy Jan Böhmerman announced on his satire show NEO MAGAZIN ROYALE yeasterday that he was going to seek the chair of the SPD. There are, however, three problems: The application deadline ends on Sunday; he needs the endorsement of one SPD state association or five SPD chapters; and yes, he still needs to become a member of the SPD.
But alas, Josef Wirges, the Social Democratic borough mayor of Böhmermann's place of residence Cologne-Ehrefeld, and Roland Pahl, SPD general secretary of Böhmermann's birthplace Bremen, both have already adamantly refused him an endorsement.

Here is his official campaign website: http://neustart19.de

https://twitter.com/zeitonline/status/1167344961324498944

[Middle-aged Europe]

The acting SPD triumvirate becomes a duumvirate consisting of Malu Dreyer and Thorsten Schäfer-Gümbel, since Manuela Schwesig steps down after a breast cancer diagnosis.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

The acting SPD triumvirate becomes a duumvirate consisting of Malu Dreyer and Thorsten Schäfer-Gümbel, since Manuela Schwesig steps down after a breast cancer diagnosis.

She retains the governorship and her state party chair, though.

[Lechasseur]

I endorse or will vote for Olaf Scholz. He's a third-wayer and haas a ton of experience in public office. Hope he wins and makes the party great again. If Schwan and Stegner were elected, I'd quit the party.

If you quit the SPD who would you join?

[Middle-aged Europe]

In a bit of a blow to Olaf Scholz, former SPD chair/Vice-chancellor Sigmar Gabriel endorses Köpping/Pistorius:

https://m.tagesspiegel.de/politik/rennen-um-den-spd-vorsitz-gabriel-favorisiert-duo-pistorius-koepping/25002692.html

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

In a bit of a blow to Olaf Scholz, former SPD chair/Vice-chancellor Sigmar Gabriel endorses Köpping/Pistorius:

https://m.tagesspiegel.de/politik/rennen-um-den-spd-vorsitz-gabriel-favorisiert-duo-pistorius-koepping/25002692.html

I endorse or will vote for Olaf Scholz. He's a third-wayer and haas a ton of experience in public office. Hope he wins and makes the party great again. If Schwan and Stegner were elected, I'd quit the party.

If you quit the SPD who would you join?

Guys, I made an extra special thread for the SPD chairmanship election, which took me four days to bring to completion. Hence, I implore you to post information and questions regarding that primary there. (The chairmanship election isn't a federal election anyway, thus it doesn't belong here.)

[President Johnson]

The acting SPD triumvirate becomes a duumvirate consisting of Malu Dreyer and Thorsten Schäfer-Gümbel, since Manuela Schwesig steps down after a breast cancer diagnosis.

She retains the governorship and her state party chair, though.

Yeah, this is very sad news. She's a very smart woman. Hopefully she recovers fully and very quickly.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Source: tax-funded state TV news tagesschau.de

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Today, the Greens are electing their parliamentary party leader-duo.
The current faction leaders Anton Hofreiter and Katrin Göring-Eckardt since 2013, who deemed their renewed candidacies to be a sure-fire success, unexpectedly met with resistance; Cem Özdemir, former party chairman from 2008 to 2018, and some random woman named Kirsten Kappert-Gonther, run against Toni and Frau Göring. His candidacy is so remarkable as he is reported to seek the chancellorship; but in order to achieve the nomination, he'll have to compete against the Messiah Robert Habeck in a primary.

[Middle-aged Europe]

Today, the Greens are electing their parliamentary party leader-duo.
The current faction leaders Anton Hofreiter and Katrin Göring-Eckardt since 2013, who deemed their renewed candidacies to be a sure-fire success, unexpectedly met with resistance; Cem Özdemir, former party chairman from 2008 to 2018, and some random woman named Kirsten Kappert-Gonther, run against Toni and Frau Göring. His candidacy is so remarkable as he is reported to seek the chancellorship; but in order to achieve the nomination, he'll have to compete against the Messiah Robert Habeck in a primary.

That bolded part would be news to me. Actually, Özdemir was seen as a likely candidate to succeed Winfried Kretschmann as minister-president in Baden-Württemberg. Kretschmann's (slightly surprising) decision to run for a third term - which perhaps was known to Özdemir for some time before Kretschmann announced it publicly - may have been what caused Özdemir's recent candidacy for the parliamentary leadership in the first place IMO.

Needless to say, Özdemir's career planning didn't go that well these past two years:

- It started with his announcement in the summer of the 2017 election campaign not to seek another term as party chairman. In retrospect a bad decision from his point of view, but a) he probably overestimated his chances to become a government minister (or leader of the Green parliamentary group if that doesn't work out) after the election and b) he was in fact already the longest-serving chairman in Green party history at that point, so he may have started to see the chairmanship as a sign for a stalled political career.

- As we all know, the Jamaica coalition talks eventually failed, so no government post for him. He did in fact consider to run for the leadership of the parliamentary group back then, but ultimately decided against it because a firm majority of the group was behind Göring-Eckardt/Hofreiter. Ultimately, he ended up as chairman of the Bundestag's committee for transportation. He was craving to get back to the top ever since.

But as Hades pointed out, a victory for him today would almost certainly mean a Habeck-Özdemir primary rematch in 2020/21 (in 2017, Özdemir defeated Habeck by a margin of 75 votes, or in other words 0.2%).

[Middle-aged Europe]

Özdemir and Kappert-Gonther both lost.

[President Johnson]

Former SPD leader and vice chancellor Sigmar Gabriel will resign his parliamentary seat on November 1, officially ending his career in politics. Very sad and actually disgusting how the SPD has treated him since the 2017. He's a very smart and down-to-earth guy and straightshoter who should have kept the position of foreign minister instead of Heiko Maas. I had the opportunity to meet him personally three times.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Former SPD leader and vice chancellor Sigmar Gabriel will resign his parliamentary seat on November 1, officially ending his career in politics. Very sad and actually disgusting how the SPD has treated him since the 2017. He's a very smart and down-to-earth guy and straightshoter who should have kept the position of foreign minister instead of Heiko Maas. I had the opportunity to meet him personally three times.

And a Russian gas companies lobbyist so good that he will have no longer any influence on German politics. The less Russlandversteher in Germany, the better for the EU.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

And Bernd Björn Höcke can now officially be called a fascist.

[President Johnson]

Former SPD leader and vice chancellor Sigmar Gabriel will resign his parliamentary seat on November 1, officially ending his career in politics. Very sad and actually disgusting how the SPD has treated him since the 2017. He's a very smart and down-to-earth guy and straightshoter who should have kept the position of foreign minister instead of Heiko Maas. I had the opportunity to meet him personally three times.

And a Russian gas companies lobbyist so good that he will have no longer any influence on German politics. The less Russlandversteher in Germany, the better for the EU.

Siggi is engaged the Atlantik Brücke, he's not a Russian asset.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Former SPD leader and vice chancellor Sigmar Gabriel will resign his parliamentary seat on November 1, officially ending his career in politics. Very sad and actually disgusting how the SPD has treated him since the 2017. He's a very smart and down-to-earth guy and straightshoter who should have kept the position of foreign minister instead of Heiko Maas. I had the opportunity to meet him personally three times.

And a Russian gas companies lobbyist so good that he will have no longer any influence on German politics. The less Russlandversteher in Germany, the better for the EU.

Siggi is engaged the Atlantik Brücke, he's not a Russian asset.

As for now yes, but even the Americans were kind of shocked with that assignment. US ambasador even wanted to stop Gabriel becoming new chief of Atlantik-Brucke. And Gabriel himself have a history of lobbying for NS2, so even if he is not "Russian asset" he is clearly supportive of Russian economic and geopolitical interests.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Former SPD leader and vice chancellor Sigmar Gabriel will resign his parliamentary seat on November 1, officially ending his career in politics. Very sad and actually disgusting how the SPD has treated him since the 2017. He's a very smart and down-to-earth guy and straightshoter who should have kept the position of foreign minister instead of Heiko Maas. I had the opportunity to meet him personally three times.

And a Russian gas companies lobbyist so good that he will have no longer any influence on German politics. The less Russlandversteher in Germany, the better for the EU.

Siggi is engaged the Atlantik Brücke, he's not a Russian asset.

As for now yes, but even the Americans were kind of shocked with that assignment. US ambasador even wanted to stop Gabriel becoming new chief of Atlantik-Brucke. And Gabriel himself have a history of lobbying for NS2, so even if he is not "Russian asset" he is clearly supportive of Russian economic and geopolitical interests.

NS2 is political consensus except among the Greens who dont like it due to environmental concerns. 73% of Germans support it. I would hardly argue that 3/4 of the Population and Merkel are in Putins pocket. Aside from the Trade Unions who support it due to the Jobs created (Probably the main reason for Gabriels support), it is quite clearly in Germanys economic interest as well.

Even 100% support for NS2 among Germans would not change the fact that even if Germany might become gas hub, still main beneficiary of that whole affair is Russia, and supporting NS2 for real means supporting Russian interests - even if not consciously. Same with the TurkStream.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Even 100% support for NS2 among Germans would not change the fact that even if Germany might become gas hub, still main beneficiary of that whole affair is Russia, and supporting NS2 for real means supporting Russian interests - even if not consciously. Same with the TurkStream.

Thats quite a zero-sum view of the World. Most people support things if is good for them - even if it may be good for someone else too. I have a Chinese Smartphone: Not because I support Chinese interests, Huawei or the CCP at all, but because it was the Phone with the Best Value for me - even if they happened to profit from it too. Same goes with National Governments. I dont think that Canada signed that Free Trade Agreement with the US because they supported US interests - rather because they stood to profit too.

You might do not have such intentions but purchasing Chinese mobile phone supports economic interests of PRC. You maybe would have multi-functional, advanced phone but still your individual consumer choice supported economy of China. Your comfort in global scale is much less important than further strengthening of their market position. Similarly, potential profits from selling natural gas surpluses by Germany are in scale less important than potential geopolitical and economic benefits which Russia might acquire. But in this case we are talking not about individuals but states, which one is generally threatening like one third of EU states and any supporting of that state economic interests should be considered in the EU as at least not welcome. 

[Omega21]

Even 100% support for NS2 among Germans would not change the fact that even if Germany might become gas hub, still main beneficiary of that whole affair is Russia, and supporting NS2 for real means supporting Russian interests - even if not consciously. Same with the TurkStream.

Thats quite a zero-sum view of the World. Most people support things if is good for them - even if it may be good for someone else too. I have a Chinese Smartphone: Not because I support Chinese interests, Huawei or the CCP at all, but because it was the Phone with the Best Value for me - even if they happened to profit from it too. Same goes with National Governments. I dont think that Canada signed that Free Trade Agreement with the US because they supported US interests - rather because they stood to profit too.

You might do not have such intentions but purchasing Chinese mobile phone supports economic interests of PRC. You maybe would have multi-functional, advanced phone but still your individual consumer choice supported economy of China. Your comfort in global scale is much less important than further strengthening of their market position. Similarly, potential profits from selling natural gas surpluses by Germany are in scale less important than potential geopolitical and economic benefits which Russia might acquire. But in this case we are talking not about individuals but states, which one is generally threatening like one third of EU states and any supporting of that state economic interests should be considered in the EU as at least not welcome.  

And buying LNG from America that's 2x more expensive and needs to be brought on a tanker halfway across the world is worse for the environment.

The more Gas we use, the better it is for the environment, and it just happens that Russia has a reliable, cheap source, that can be transported with minimal impact on the environment (compared to other sources).

Something you should take into account if you support any sort of Green party.

[Zinneke]

Even 100% support for NS2 among Germans would not change the fact that even if Germany might become gas hub, still main beneficiary of that whole affair is Russia, and supporting NS2 for real means supporting Russian interests - even if not consciously. Same with the TurkStream.

Thats quite a zero-sum view of the World. Most people support things if is good for them - even if it may be good for someone else too. I have a Chinese Smartphone: Not because I support Chinese interests, Huawei or the CCP at all, but because it was the Phone with the Best Value for me - even if they happened to profit from it too. Same goes with National Governments. I dont think that Canada signed that Free Trade Agreement with the US because they supported US interests - rather because they stood to profit too.

You might do not have such intentions but purchasing Chinese mobile phone supports economic interests of PRC. You maybe would have multi-functional, advanced phone but still your individual consumer choice supported economy of China. Your comfort in global scale is much less important than further strengthening of their market position. Similarly, potential profits from selling natural gas surpluses by Germany are in scale less important than potential geopolitical and economic benefits which Russia might acquire. But in this case we are talking not about individuals but states, which one is generally threatening like one third of EU states and any supporting of that state economic interests should be considered in the EU as at least not welcome.  

And buying LNG from America that's 2x more expensive and needs to be brought on a tanker halfway across the world is worse for the environment.

The more Gas we use, the better it is for the environment, and it just happens that Russia has a reliable, cheap source, that can be transported with minimal impact on the environment (compared to other sources).

Something you should take into account if you support any sort of Green party.

He hasn't raised any environmental concerns in his argument. This is about not being dependent on tinpot authoritarian adversaries that systematically try to undermine our democracies. I get that that's a difficult concept for so called patriots 3 feet up Putin's arse on the right of the spectrum and so called communists on the far left happily suckling on China's FDI, but I actually don't want to be co-dependent on these crooks and cheats of the international system, even if it means paying more.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

Even 100% support for NS2 among Germans would not change the fact that even if Germany might become gas hub, still main beneficiary of that whole affair is Russia, and supporting NS2 for real means supporting Russian interests - even if not consciously. Same with the TurkStream.

Thats quite a zero-sum view of the World. Most people support things if is good for them - even if it may be good for someone else too. I have a Chinese Smartphone: Not because I support Chinese interests, Huawei or the CCP at all, but because it was the Phone with the Best Value for me - even if they happened to profit from it too. Same goes with National Governments. I dont think that Canada signed that Free Trade Agreement with the US because they supported US interests - rather because they stood to profit too.

You might do not have such intentions but purchasing Chinese mobile phone supports economic interests of PRC. You maybe would have multi-functional, advanced phone but still your individual consumer choice supported economy of China. Your comfort in global scale is much less important than further strengthening of their market position. Similarly, potential profits from selling natural gas surpluses by Germany are in scale less important than potential geopolitical and economic benefits which Russia might acquire. But in this case we are talking not about individuals but states, which one is generally threatening like one third of EU states and any supporting of that state economic interests should be considered in the EU as at least not welcome.  

And buying LNG from America that's 2x more expensive and needs to be brought on a tanker halfway across the world is worse for the environment.

The more Gas we use, the better it is for the environment, and it just happens that Russia has a reliable, cheap source, that can be transported with minimal impact on the environment (compared to other sources).

Something you should take into account if you support any sort of Green party.

He hasn't raised any environmental concerns in his argument. This is about not being dependent on tinpot authoritarian adversaries that systematically try to undermine our democracies. I get that that's a difficult concept for so called patriots 3 feet up Putin's arse on the right of the spectrum and so called communists on the far left happily suckling on China's FDI, but I actually don't want to be co-dependent on these crooks and cheats of the international system, even if it means paying more.

Not even mentioning that natural gas is still a fossil fuel and producing electrical energy from that still cause emitting carbon dioxide. Additionally is mainly methane which is also dangerous for environment. Natural gas is an alternative only in the short run.


And in Poland prices of LNG from the US and Russia are comparable.

[Omega21]

The US supports Saudi Arabia, buys their oil, and even gives them Military Aid.

So, by buying US gas, you are indirectly supporting one of the two worst and most oppressive regimes on earth (Saudi Arabia and NK are probably the most oppressive towards their own people).

You see where your arguments can lead, so no, IMO your argument is not valid.

[Grand Wizard Lizard of the Klan]

I was just answering your arguments about miraculous fuel which natural gas according to you is, never mentioned that gas from USA is somehow better.