Democratic Convention

[migrendel]

Well, I will not stand to see minorities, gays, women, and those on death row treated as second class citizens.

[JohnFKennedy]

Well, I will not stand to see minorities, gays, women, and those on death row treated as second class citizens.

How does it make them second class citizens?

[migrendel]

By using the law to perpetrate grievous wrongs against their dignity as human beings, only to curry favor with so-called "majority sentiment". I shall not be silent while the right to marry, the right to receive an affirmative preference when society has been hostile to your kind, the right to not be killed by a despotic state, and the right to plan your family are under assault.

[JohnFKennedy]

By using the law to perpetrate grievous wrongs against their dignity as human beings, only to curry favor with so-called "majority sentiment". I shall not be silent while the right to marry, the right to receive an affirmative preference when society has been hostile to your kind, the right to not be killed by a despotic state, and the right to plan your family are under assault.

Like I said, we support Civil Unions with ALL the benefits of marriage. We support class-based affirmative action as affirmative action only for a minority is discriminative against those not of that minority, and as I said, I believe the general consensus is NOT to make abortion illegal.

[© tweed]

Pittsburgh? PITTSBURGH?


fine.


*does quick edit*

We made it Pittsburgh when salty was running to slap him in the face.  Now we're just stuck in a polluted cole mine.

[The Dowager Mod]

By using the law to perpetrate grievous wrongs against their dignity as human beings, only to curry favor with so-called "majority sentiment". I shall not be silent while the right to marry, the right to receive an affirmative preference when society has been hostile to your kind, the right to not be killed by a despotic state, and the right to plan your family are under assault.

Like I said, we support Civil Unions with ALL the benefits of marriage. We support class-based affirmative action as affirmative action only for a minority is discriminative against those not of that minority, and as I said, I believe the general consensus is NOT to make abortion illegal.

then why not call a marriage a marriage?

[migrendel]

We shall always bear the badge of servitude if we are referred to as a "civilly unionized couple", and I will pay class based affirmative action some heed when I hear of someone being lynched for being poor.

[JohnFKennedy]

By using the law to perpetrate grievous wrongs against their dignity as human beings, only to curry favor with so-called "majority sentiment". I shall not be silent while the right to marry, the right to receive an affirmative preference when society has been hostile to your kind, the right to not be killed by a despotic state, and the right to plan your family are under assault.

Like I said, we support Civil Unions with ALL the benefits of marriage. We support class-based affirmative action as affirmative action only for a minority is discriminative against those not of that minority, and as I said, I believe the general consensus is NOT to make abortion illegal.

then why not call a marriage a marriage?

Because, as I said, Marriage is a Religious ceremony ordained by God and we CANNOT force a religion to accept something that they say goes against their teachings.

[YRABNNRM]

By using the law to perpetrate grievous wrongs against their dignity as human beings, only to curry favor with so-called "majority sentiment". I shall not be silent while the right to marry, the right to receive an affirmative preference when society has been hostile to your kind, the right to not be killed by a despotic state, and the right to plan your family are under assault.

Like I said, we support Civil Unions with ALL the benefits of marriage. We support class-based affirmative action as affirmative action only for a minority is discriminative against those not of that minority, and as I said, I believe the general consensus is NOT to make abortion illegal.

then why not call a marriage a marriage?

Thats what I say.

Perhaps we should take this to a different thread so we dont pollute the convention.

[© tweed]

I don't care what you do wth the convention

[migrendel]

Marriage is a legal arrangement ordained by the state, and I don't know why you are willing to put in a plank just to placate the most reactionary and narrow-minded members of our society.

I say keep this debate here. Let's see if the Centrists can win the war of ideas.

[Gustaf]

We should probably take this to another thread...but I just have to give my own view on abortion, which is completely unrestriced in the first trimester, then only if it is deemed to be special circumstances. This is the Swedish law, and I think it's good. the VAST majority of all abortions are in the first trimester anyway.

I don't think the government should have anything to do with marriage, so there wouldn't be a difference.

[The Dowager Mod]

Calling a Marriage a "civil union" just to apease so called centrists is silly.
if two PEOPLE love one another and wish to spend their lives together they should be considered married legally and morally.

[Gustaf]

Calling a Marriage a "civil union" just to apease so called centrists is silly.
if two PEOPLE love one another and wish to spend their lives together they should be considered married legally and morally.

I personally agree to that.

Let me restate my position. The religious marriage should have nothing to do with the state.

There should be a state sanctioned union between 2 people who love each other. What you want to call that isn't really a big deal to me.

[ericadler]

I'm Rage Against the Machine.  I'm raging against the machine outside the democratic convention.

All you corporate lackies and your shaved poodles and your fur coats!  Damn You!  Damn You!

I hope the Earth swallows all of you and turns you into black, sticky oil.

[Michael Z]

CNN: And the Democratic convention is descending into chaos as Migrendel, Gustaf and Texasgirl keep arguing on stage about, erm, I think it's the legality of marriage...

Migrendel: Marriage is a legal arrangement ordained by the state!

Gustaf: The religious marriage should have nothing to do with the state!

Crowd: FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

CNN: OK. I now have with us Senator Michael Z, at the convention...

(Split-screen. Senator Michael Z is standing in the middle of the baying crowds, looking plainly distressed as numerous eggs and tomatoes are pelted towards the stage, at Gustaf and Migrendel.)

CNN: Senator Z, what do you make of this quite public split within the party?

Michael Z: Well, it's obvious that the Democratic party is in turmoil. It has been since the formation of the UAC, really. Boss Tweed's resignation was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, I guess.

CNN: What do you plan to do?

Michael Z: Well, I plan on having a shower, then brushing my hair, before getting ready for wor...

CNN: No, I mean what do you plan to do at the convention?

Michael Z: Ooooh, the convention. Well, I intend to hold a speech. Eventually. Maybe.

CNN: Thank you, Senator Z.

[Ben.]

CNN: And the Democratic convention is descending into chaos as Migrendel, Gustaf and Texasgirl keep arguing on stage about, erm, I think it's the legality of marriage...

Migrendel: Marriage is a legal arrangement ordained by the state!

Gustaf: The religious marriage should have nothing to do with the state!

Crowd: FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

CNN: OK. I now have with us Senator Michael Z, at the convention...

(Split-screen. Senator Michael Z is standing in the middle of the baying crowds, looking plainly distressed as numerous eggs and tomatoes are pelted towards the stage, at Gustaf and Migrendel.)

CNN: Senator Z, what do you make of this quite public split within the party?

Michael Z: Well, it's obvious that the Democratic party is in turmoil. It has been since the formation of the UAC, really. Boss Tweed's resignation was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back, I guess.

CNN: What do you plan to do?

Michael Z: Well, I plan on having a shower, then brushing my hair, before getting ready for wor...

CNN: No, I mean what do you plan to do at the convention?

Michael Z: Ooooh, the convention. Well, I intend to hold a speech. Eventually. Maybe.

CNN: Thank you, Senator Z.

LOL

...er... can I state a claim to being DLC chairman and a speaking spot at the convention?

...and this conventions in Pittsburg right?

...and the ticket is?
 

[Ben.]

right here goes...

CNN: And the chairman of the DLC, Ben is taking the podium, and we are here isolated booing from one or two of the more liberal delegates, but that seems to have ceased... the chairman is about to begin, here we are...      

I have heard to much debate over trivial issues.

I have heard to much, far to much debate over who is the most ideologically pure.

And I have see to many far to many delegates and leaders of this great party range the guns of their rage against their partners within this very party over these issues, when our powder should be kept dry for the coming maelstrom this fall…  

I now call upon us all, we democrats, gathered here in this city built upon Steel and toil … to once again reaffirm that timeless statement last uttered by Adlai Stevenson at out Convention in Chicago in 1952…

“The people are wise, wiser than the Republicans think. And the Democratic party is the people’s party -- not the labor party, not the farmers’ party, not the employers’ party -- it is the party of no one because it is the party of everyone.”

…and I urge to all those who have argued here over the issues at convention to take stock of that statement and join me and their party in our goal to be worthy of that title “the people’s party” …

But what is the defining principle of our party, this “peoples party”. It is not in my opinion a single point on a single topical issue…but rather it is an overreaching principle that we must apply (in our varying ways to every issue we have to confront)… and that principle in my opinion is the idea of “community”…

The Republican Party does not believe in this, but we do,

We do believe that we owe a debt of responsibly to more than just ourselves

…and we believe that the government has responsibilities too…

to spend your money wisely and not wastefully, to defend the values and beliefs of this nation from external threats…

let the maxim of another great democrat ring ever truer today when I say that, we as a party, we as a government, we as a band of souls committed to this nation and the values that it embodies, that “we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”…

And let American know that we will never flinch from paying this price for the values of this great republic and I hope I speak for all here when I say I pray that might ever be so…

Thank you all so much for your time… and god bless                          

[Fritz]

Hello Fellow Democrats!

I apologise for my absence over the last several days.  My old computer has bitten the dust, and so I have had to go out and purchase a new one, so that I may participate in the forum here (as well as do most other things my life requires).

Now I come back and find the forum infiltrated by- gasp!- avatars from Canadian provinces, and European countries!   I perceive some constitutional difficulties with the use of these international avatars, and I urge the Senate to address these problems.

Regarding some of the issues that have been debated in this convention, I feel that the Democratic Party is sorely in need of an official platform of its positions.  The now-defunct Progressive Party (of which I was a member) had such a platform, and it appears that the newly-formed Centrist Party has managed to form one.  It also appears that, during my absence over the past several days, the Democratic Party has undergone a change of leadershiip, or is in the process of doing so.  I would urge the new leadership of our party to take steps to define and articulate our Party's position on a variety of issues, as well as give our membership an opportunity to vote on such matters.

Specifically regarding some of the issues which have been brought up, I stand behind the positions of the United Liberty Caucus on these matters, and urge our Party as a whole to do the same.

I know that our President has been busily engaged in dealing with the Taiwan/China crisis, and I look forward to a progress report from him.

Thank You.

[Gustaf]

right here goes...

CNN: And the chairman of the DLC, Ben is taking the podium, and we are here isolated booing from one or two of the more liberal delegates, but that seems to have ceased... the chairman is about to begin, here we are...      

I have heard to much debate over trivial issues.

I have heard to much, far to much debate over who is the most ideologically pure.

And I have see to many far to many delegates and leaders of this great party range the guns of their rage against their partners within this very party over these issues, when our powder should be kept dry for the coming maelstrom this fall…  

I now call upon us all, we democrats, gathered here in this city built upon Steel and toil … to once again reaffirm that timeless statement last uttered by Adlai Stevenson at out Convention in Chicago in 1952…

“The people are wise, wiser than the Republicans think. And the Democratic party is the people’s party -- not the labor party, not the farmers’ party, not the employers’ party -- it is the party of no one because it is the party of everyone.”

…and I urge to all those who have argued here over the issues at convention to take stock of that statement and join me and their party in our goal to be worthy of that title “the people’s party” …

But what is the defining principle of our party, this “peoples party”. It is not in my opinion a single point on a single topical issue…but rather it is an overreaching principle that we must apply (in our varying ways to every issue we have to confront)… and that principle in my opinion is the idea of “community”…

The Republican Party does not believe in this, but we do,

We do believe that we owe a debt of responsibly to more than just ourselves

…and we believe that the government has responsibilities too…

to spend your money wisely and not wastefully, to defend the values and beliefs of this nation from external threats…

let the maxim of another great democrat ring ever truer today when I say that, we as a party, we as a government, we as a band of souls committed to this nation and the values that it embodies, that “we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”…

And let American know that we will never flinch from paying this price for the values of this great republic and I hope I speak for all here when I say I pray that might ever be so…

Thank you all so much for your time… and god bless                          

I belive in those values too... and I'm not a Democrat or a Republican...I'm a member of the UAC.

[The Dowager Mod]

My fellow Democrats:
Today i wish to speak about civil liberties.
when casting your vote on election day reflect on the freedoms you now have, and the freedoms you may very well lose if conservatives are put into power.
if a woman is brutally raped and becomes pregnant she will be victimized yet again by being forced to bear a child she does not want.
will the same "right to lifers" who would make this choice for her adopt the child?
NO.
the child will be placed in the care of a government and society that neither wants him or wants to pay for him.
the featus is NOT the only victim.
also your right to have a loving long lasting relationship with someone you want to spend the rest of your life with WILL be taken away to preserve an outdated definition of a "marriage".

[Beet]

Fellow Democrats! Atlas Fantasy members!

First I would like to thank Ben and Fritz for your excellent speeches getting this convention back on track.

I have not been on very much recently and have exams this week, but this momentous event in the history of this party is too important to miss.

A noted philosopher once observed, that Europe was founded on history while America was founded on philosophy. America was founded at a time in history when religious wars had withered and great advances in human knowledge and science had begun to inspire men to believe in the limitless fronts of progress. When America's founders gathered, they set out to build a new society on these principles, of liberty, of equality, and of the pursuit of happiness. As a result, sometimes we in America remain stuck in the Enlightenment, what some would call an exceptionalist sense of possibility.

I believe that the Democratic party truly represents this possibility and represents the embodiment of progress, the people who live in this great nation. We are not a party of ideology except a belief that a better life can be had for each succeeding generation, and for every member of every generation, no matter what their conditions of birth. We do not seek to hold back the rich-- the rich will continue to be rich whether they are taxed at a flat or progressive rate. But we do envision a better life for citizens regardless of class. We do not seek to hold back any race or creed, but we recognize that society today makes its own deep and implicit distinctions based on race and creed-- and we seek to smooth the edges of such distinctions. When we mention race, in dialogue or policy, we do it because society's structure requires a reaction, not because we seek to create such distinctions. We do not seek to put the interests of one gender above another, but we recognize that society today generates its own deep inequities based on gender that can be remedied-- the very fact that we have come a long way in doing so, proves that we can finish the job. When we mention gender then, it is not our intention to split Americans but to unite them by softening the edges of the splits society has already imposed on us on gender lines.

We are, despite the claims of some, a remarkably unideological party. Our members come from the poor working class, the wealthy suburbs; they are populists and liberals; Bill Clinton-DLC types and passionate Migrendel types. We do not ascribe to the three main pathologies that hang like phantoms over the modern world. These are nationalism, religious fundamentalism, and neoliberalism, which is a fanatical, ideological belief in free market strictures. If it can be said that we ascribe to any pathology, it is that of a better life for all. The means of reaching that end will be for ever in dispute, but in seeking the means to achieve a better society we should never lose sight of the end itself.

Those who seek to protect property must recognize that such protection grows from the strength and respect of the government. The government can, and does, do more than just protect property. The market, efficient though it is in allocating capital, is riddled with problems of collective action, asymmetric information, economies of scale, and negative or positive externalities. Its utility is great in generating wealth but not happiness or social capital. The market is built by people and composed of people, and thus, it is fallible, just as government. When the market is imperfect, the government can step in to achieve the humane objectives of a society.

President Nym from all indications apprent to me, represents all of the positive ideals mentioned above. He is a reasonable man and a leader who has grown stronger steadily as our forum has faced exceptional and unexpected crises in this forum. Nym and his administration have guided us through a time of extreme growing pains, and we have emerged intact and with a vibrant three-party system. Time and time again, when authority was needed to quell some petty dispute, the Nym administration has been there. Now that we face an international crisis with China, Nym has shown remarkable restraint and thoughtfulness. He is committed to the goals of this great country, to make a better life for all.

Whoever the UAC nominee will be, we do not know. But I do believe Nym will be a better choice than StevenNick. He has done a remarkable job over the past three months. Let's have Four More Months! FOUR MORE MONTHS!

[7,052,770]

{Senator Harry walks onto the stage.  Some people in the audience go wild, while others are a bit disgruntled.  Outside, the protestors are riled up and begin burning effigies of the senator, and screaming "Harry sucks!"}

Well, fellow Democrats, Indepedents, Centrists, and Republicans. . . . this message is for all of you.
We've had some small problems recently; elections have occured; the supreme court scenario has disgruntled many; many are now angry at the supreme court and myself personally.  Quite of few of us have left the forum altogther.

This is quite unfortunate.  We must put all of this behind us, and move forward.  And there's one man here who can help us move forward.  That man is Nym90.  He can lead us into a new era of harmony.  So I'm glad he's on our ticket.  And I hope we all tripartisanly elect him to another term.  Because he deserves it.

{Harry walks off the platform to cheers on the inside and boos on the outside}

[Ben.]

right here goes...

CNN: And the chairman of the DLC, Ben is taking the podium, and we are here isolated booing from one or two of the more liberal delegates, but that seems to have ceased... the chairman is about to begin, here we are...      

I have heard to much debate over trivial issues.

I have heard to much, far to much debate over who is the most ideologically pure.

And I have see to many far to many delegates and leaders of this great party range the guns of their rage against their partners within this very party over these issues, when our powder should be kept dry for the coming maelstrom this fall…  

I now call upon us all, we democrats, gathered here in this city built upon Steel and toil … to once again reaffirm that timeless statement last uttered by Adlai Stevenson at out Convention in Chicago in 1952…

“The people are wise, wiser than the Republicans think. And the Democratic party is the people’s party -- not the labor party, not the farmers’ party, not the employers’ party -- it is the party of no one because it is the party of everyone.”

…and I urge to all those who have argued here over the issues at convention to take stock of that statement and join me and their party in our goal to be worthy of that title “the people’s party” …

But what is the defining principle of our party, this “peoples party”. It is not in my opinion a single point on a single topical issue…but rather it is an overreaching principle that we must apply (in our varying ways to every issue we have to confront)… and that principle in my opinion is the idea of “community”…

The Republican Party does not believe in this, but we do,

We do believe that we owe a debt of responsibly to more than just ourselves

…and we believe that the government has responsibilities too…

to spend your money wisely and not wastefully, to defend the values and beliefs of this nation from external threats…

let the maxim of another great democrat ring ever truer today when I say that, we as a party, we as a government, we as a band of souls committed to this nation and the values that it embodies, that “we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty”…

And let American know that we will never flinch from paying this price for the values of this great republic and I hope I speak for all here when I say I pray that might ever be so…

Thank you all so much for your time… and god bless                          

I belive in those values too... and I'm not a Democrat or a Republican...I'm a member of the UAC.

 All I will say [turns on the traditional southern charm of most democratic moderates] your real home Gustaf is here with the Democratic party... do not let overzealous liberals suggest otherwise together we can win, we can not simply place Nym/Harry in office once more but we can place the values we both share centre stage in the formation of policy by this Party and this administration...  

[Ben.]

Fellow Democrats! Atlas Fantasy members!

First I would like to thank Ben and Fritz for your excellent speeches getting this convention back on track.

I have not been on very much recently and have exams this week, but this momentous event in the history of this party is too important to miss.

A noted philosopher once observed, that Europe was founded on history while America was founded on philosophy. America was founded at a time in history when religious wars had withered and great advances in human knowledge and science had begun to inspire men to believe in the limitless fronts of progress. When America's founders gathered, they set out to build a new society on these principles, of liberty, of equality, and of the pursuit of happiness. As a result, sometimes we in America remain stuck in the Enlightenment, what some would call an exceptionalist sense of possibility.

I believe that the Democratic party truly represents this possibility and represents the embodiment of progress, the people who live in this great nation. We are not a party of ideology except a belief that a better life can be had for each succeeding generation, and for every member of every generation, no matter what their conditions of birth. We do not seek to hold back the rich-- the rich will continue to be rich whether they are taxed at a flat or progressive rate. But we do envision a better life for citizens regardless of class. We do not seek to hold back any race or creed, but we recognize that society today makes its own deep and implicit distinctions based on race and creed-- and we seek to smooth the edges of such distinctions. When we mention race, in dialogue or policy, we do it because society's structure requires a reaction, not because we seek to create such distinctions. We do not seek to put the interests of one gender above another, but we recognize that society today generates its own deep inequities based on gender that can be remedied-- the very fact that we have come a long way in doing so, proves that we can finish the job. When we mention gender then, it is not our intention to split Americans but to unite them by softening the edges of the splits society has already imposed on us on gender lines.

We are, despite the claims of some, a remarkably unideological party. Our members come from the poor working class, the wealthy suburbs; they are populists and liberals; Bill Clinton-DLC types and passionate Migrendel types. We do not ascribe to the three main pathologies that hang like phantoms over the modern world. These are nationalism, religious fundamentalism, and neoliberalism, which is a fanatical, ideological belief in free market strictures. If it can be said that we ascribe to any pathology, it is that of a better life for all. The means of reaching that end will be for ever in dispute, but in seeking the means to achieve a better society we should never lose sight of the end itself.

Those who seek to protect property must recognize that such protection grows from the strength and respect of the government. The government can, and does, do more than just protect property. The market, efficient though it is in allocating capital, is riddled with problems of collective action, asymmetric information, economies of scale, and negative or positive externalities. Its utility is great in generating wealth but not happiness or social capital. The market is built by people and composed of people, and thus, it is fallible, just as government. When the market is imperfect, the government can step in to achieve the humane objectives of a society.

President Nym from all indications apprent to me, represents all of the positive ideals mentioned above. He is a reasonable man and a leader who has grown stronger steadily as our forum has faced exceptional and unexpected crises in this forum. Nym and his administration have guided us through a time of extreme growing pains, and we have emerged intact and with a vibrant three-party system. Time and time again, when authority was needed to quell some petty dispute, the Nym administration has been there. Now that we face an international crisis with China, Nym has shown remarkable restraint and thoughtfulness. He is committed to the goals of this great country, to make a better life for all.

Whoever the UAC nominee will be, we do not know. But I do believe Nym will be a better choice than StevenNick. He has done a remarkable job over the past three months. Let's have Four More Months! FOUR MORE MONTHS!

CNN: [Camera focuses in on Ben, seated just off stage who is giving Senator Beet a rapturous applause, and pauses only to enthusiastically shake Beet's hand as he leaves the stage]...  

By the way is Harry being renominated with Nym or not?