Greenville SC: Neo Nazi and neo confederate rally this Saturday

[junior chįmp]

Sooo...just another weekend in SC?

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Who cares?
These people should stop announcing their gatherings to the general public so that they aren't harassed by hordes of lefties.

These people should stop being wastes of life and stop having rallies.

That goes for both sides.

Very fine person in the house.

You're right, actually. They aren't equally bad. The counter-protesters are probably going to be worse.

that edginesss tho

[Fuzzy Bear]

Who cares?
These people should stop announcing their gatherings to the general public so that they aren't harassed by hordes of lefties.

Oh of course.
Let's make sure these very "fine people" "aren't harassed." God forbid.

In all seriousness, these folks, however heinous, have the right to peaceably assemble, protest, share their views, and not be physically threatened when they are assembling lawfully.  Neo-Nazis, Alt-Righters, Skinheads, and other people that I would regard as some form of Pond Scum nonetheless have the same rights (no more, no less) under the First Amendment than Mother Teresa, Elizabeth Warren, or ProudModerate2.  The people who make their gatherings violent are the COUNTERPROTESTERS; folks who are there only to disrupt their rally.  And it's not like they can't have a rally of their own somewhere else; they're there to START CRAP. after which anything can happen.

Yes, Heather Heyer was a tragedy.  Yes, the people responsible for her death should face the proper criminal penalties.  But why in anyone's right mind would someone plan to disrupt a lawful rally of a group that, admittedly, are HPs, except to "start crap"?  Yes, the Antifa folks have their martyr for their PR; Heather Heyer is dead and they can claim they were right.  Is that right?  Did they really have to do that? 

The COUNTERPROTESTERS are scumbags.  All of them.  Their cause MAY have more merit than that of Neo-Nazis and the like, but their PRESENCE at the lawful gatherings of admittedly despicable people is what guarantees the violence, because THEY are there solely to provoke.  The only mitigating factor to that is that the protestors with the permit really hope to be provoked; I don't want anyone to think I'm giving either side props here.

If you want to make America better, respect the rights of others' free speech and their freedom to assemble.  If you don't agree with them, let them be.  If someone is propulgating garbage, organize teach-ins.  Take to the internet.  If you're the media, REPORT the news; don't try to manufacture it.  I don't think that's real unreasonable, but there are lots of people who are only for free speech when they're the ones running their mouth.

Memo to fuzzy bear.

The counter protesters in Charlotte included numerous organized Christian congregations, both black and white, many of which were led by pastors. Just curious if you include them among scumbags because two or three college kids in the crowd calling themselves antifa threw urine filled water balloons at neo-nazis. Please advise.

In addition to scumbags, there are utter fools, and folks who are deceived.  There are also Christian congregations who have lost their way and shifted their focus to politics.  While I certainly don't agree with Neo-Nazi, Alt-Right philosophy, I fail to see how acting as counterprotestors at such an event had anything to do with advancing God's Kingdom.

I apply this standard all around.  While I am staunchly pro-life, I am not big on Christians attending anti-abortion protests.  I believe that winning converts to Christ is the ONLY way to solve that problem; the Holy Spirit will educate a believer on what is right on that issue.  The sinful world we now live in doesn't need more folks lecturing them on how terrible they are in the midst of their unreasonableness; it needs a revelation of the Love and Power of God, Himself.  No one was at Charlottesville for that purpose, not even those pastors.

Now if a Church group really wanted to Evangelize the alt-right, that's another issue.  To do so would require a great deal of love in their heart for some pretty out-there people.  I do, indeed, have love and compassion for such folks.  I have love and compassion for Antifa.  Jesus died on the Cross for the sins of every Nazi and Bolshevik that ever lived, let alone you and I.  But I also have enough Wisdom to know that those groups "meeting" in venues like Charlottesville aren't in any kind of mindset to hear any sort of reasonableness, let alone the Gospel. 

These Church Groups wished to make a political point on a secular plane, and were foolish to do so.  Their presence intensified what should have been a bunch of whack jobs talking to themselves in a public park at a rally they had a permit for.  At best, these folks were misguided.  At worst, these folks lacked the sort of Godly Love for those particular Lost that God would have in those sent to Evangelize them.

I assure you:  End the "counterprotests" and the media coverage, and the "problem" of Neo-Nazi protestors will go away.  Keep feeding them attention and see what happens.  The only purpose that serves is to provide fund-raising impetus for the Southern Poverty Law Center.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Who cares?
These people should stop announcing their gatherings to the general public so that they aren't harassed by hordes of lefties.

Oh of course.
Let's make sure these very "fine people" "aren't harassed." God forbid.

In all seriousness, these folks, however heinous, have the right to peaceably assemble, protest, share their views, and not be physically threatened when they are assembling lawfully.  Neo-Nazis, Alt-Righters, Skinheads, and other people that I would regard as some form of Pond Scum nonetheless have the same rights (no more, no less) under the First Amendment than Mother Teresa, Elizabeth Warren, or ProudModerate2.  The people who make their gatherings violent are the COUNTERPROTESTERS; folks who are there only to disrupt their rally.  And it's not like they can't have a rally of their own somewhere else; they're there to START CRAP. after which anything can happen.

Yes, Heather Heyer was a tragedy.  Yes, the people responsible for her death should face the proper criminal penalties.  But why in anyone's right mind would someone plan to disrupt a lawful rally of a group that, admittedly, are HPs, except to "start crap"?  Yes, the Antifa folks have their martyr for their PR; Heather Heyer is dead and they can claim they were right.  Is that right?  Did they really have to do that? 

The COUNTERPROTESTERS are scumbags.  All of them.  Their cause MAY have more merit than that of Neo-Nazis and the like, but their PRESENCE at the lawful gatherings of admittedly despicable people is what guarantees the violence, because THEY are there solely to provoke.  The only mitigating factor to that is that the protestors with the permit really hope to be provoked; I don't want anyone to think I'm giving either side props here.

If you want to make America better, respect the rights of others' free speech and their freedom to assemble.  If you don't agree with them, let them be.  If someone is propulgating garbage, organize teach-ins.  Take to the internet.  If you're the media, REPORT the news; don't try to manufacture it.  I don't think that's real unreasonable, but there are lots of people who are only for free speech when they're the ones running their mouth.

Memo to fuzzy bear.

The counter protesters in Charlotte included numerous organized Christian congregations, both black and white, many of which were led by pastors. Just curious if you include them among scumbags because two or three college kids in the crowd calling themselves antifa threw urine filled water balloons at neo-nazis. Please advise.

More wishy-washy responses by Fuzzy. What a surprise.
All those words in his post, and they equal crap-o-la. Does the guy ever take a straight position on any issue?

He has. He has clearly stated that Nazis are to be treated as respected members of society.

The RIGHTS of radical groups are to be respected.

There are lots of folks here I have no respect for, but I respect their RIGHTS.  That's the principle here.  Repulsive groups with a lawful permit to exercise their First Amendment Rights have a right to be left alone while they do it.  I respect their right to Lawful Assembly as much as I may abhor the purpose of that same assembly.  (The key word is "Lawful".)

Is that really a radical principle; the principle that all people have Equal Rights Under The Law, whether they be respectable or not?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Who cares?
These people should stop announcing their gatherings to the general public so that they aren't harassed by hordes of lefties.

Oh of course.
Let's make sure these very "fine people" "aren't harassed." God forbid.

In all seriousness, these folks, however heinous, have the right to peaceably assemble, protest, share their views, and not be physically threatened when they are assembling lawfully.  Neo-Nazis, Alt-Righters, Skinheads, and other people that I would regard as some form of Pond Scum nonetheless have the same rights (no more, no less) under the First Amendment than Mother Teresa, Elizabeth Warren, or ProudModerate2.  The people who make their gatherings violent are the COUNTERPROTESTERS; folks who are there only to disrupt their rally.  And it's not like they can't have a rally of their own somewhere else; they're there to START CRAP. after which anything can happen.

Yes, Heather Heyer was a tragedy.  Yes, the people responsible for her death should face the proper criminal penalties.  But why in anyone's right mind would someone plan to disrupt a lawful rally of a group that, admittedly, are HPs, except to "start crap"?  Yes, the Antifa folks have their martyr for their PR; Heather Heyer is dead and they can claim they were right.  Is that right?  Did they really have to do that?  

The COUNTERPROTESTERS are scumbags.  All of them.  Their cause MAY have more merit than that of Neo-Nazis and the like, but their PRESENCE at the lawful gatherings of admittedly despicable people is what guarantees the violence, because THEY are there solely to provoke.  The only mitigating factor to that is that the protestors with the permit really hope to be provoked; I don't want anyone to think I'm giving either side props here.

If you want to make America better, respect the rights of others' free speech and their freedom to assemble.  If you don't agree with them, let them be.  If someone is propulgating garbage, organize teach-ins.  Take to the internet.  If you're the media, REPORT the news; don't try to manufacture it.  I don't think that's real unreasonable, but there are lots of people who are only for free speech when they're the ones running their mouth.

Memo to fuzzy bear.

The counter protesters in Charlotte included numerous organized Christian congregations, both black and white, many of which were led by pastors. Just curious if you include them among scumbags because two or three college kids in the crowd calling themselves antifa threw urine filled water balloons at neo-nazis. Please advise.

More wishy-washy responses by Fuzzy. What a surprise.
All those words in his post, and they equal crap-o-la. Does the guy ever take a straight position on any issue?

He has. He has clearly stated that Nazis are to be treated as respected members of society.

He said and I quote: "The people who make their gatherings violent are the COUNTERPROTESTERS" (with extra emphasis with him capitalizing COUNTERPROTESTERS to make sure you know who he is blaming). Yet in Chancellorsville, it was the Nazis that ran over a crowd of people and killed one innocent woman.

Fuzzy's comments here just reflect what the rest of the GOP does, both collectively and individually: blame their victims, and whine when they fight back. (They also dislike being reminded of the consequences of their actions.)

[RINO Tom]

Who cares?
These people should stop announcing their gatherings to the general public so that they aren't harassed by hordes of lefties.

These people should stop being wastes of life and stop having rallies.

That goes for both sides.

Very fine person in the house.

You're right, actually. They aren't equally bad. The counter-protesters are probably going to be worse.

A neo-Nazi doesn't bother you more than someone protesting neo-Nazi views?

He's a Republican, what do you expect? Last time I checked the incumbent Republican president that 90% of Republicans approve of and will vote for again thinks the same thing.

I tend to judge people on an individual basis until they give me a reason to think badly of them.  Surely, if you met someone on a plane from WV, you wouldn’t treat them like they embody all your negative stereotypes without any evidence and be a close-minded, fanatical jerk whose personality is comprised almost entirely of their political opinions?  Never mind, LOL.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Is that really a radical principle; the principle that all people have Equal Rights Under The Law, whether they be respectable or not?

It appears to be for you, since you disparage people for using their right toengage in a LAWFUL counterprotest.  Free speech does not mean you don't face criticism for your views while expressing them.

[Karpatsky]

Is that really a radical principle; the principle that all people have Equal Rights Under The Law, whether they be respectable or not?

It's not, but no one will take your claim to believe in it seriously so long as you prioritize the rights of these people over the counterprotesters who have just as much right to be there, if not more so. The right to assemble is not the right to monopolize public space.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

well, it ended up being a dud, as normal.

 As reported by a primary source (my mom), 5 people were arrested. 2 from each side ended up in a fistfight, and a counterprotester ended up punching one of the alt-right guys as the protest was breaking up at 4 (they had a permit until 4) and promptly was arrested. There were approx. 15 neo-nazis, neo-confederates, white supremacists, etc. and 30 or 40 counterprotesters. They were on opposite sides of the street with police and a fence between them.

Here's the sign she brought, btw. Sorry it's sideways, don't know how that happened or how to fix it.

[IceSpear]

Who cares?
These people should stop announcing their gatherings to the general public so that they aren't harassed by hordes of lefties.

These people should stop being wastes of life and stop having rallies.

That goes for both sides.

Very fine person in the house.

You're right, actually. They aren't equally bad. The counter-protesters are probably going to be worse.

A neo-Nazi doesn't bother you more than someone protesting neo-Nazi views?

He's a Republican, what do you expect? Last time I checked the incumbent Republican president that 90% of Republicans approve of and will vote for again thinks the same thing.

I tend to judge people on an individual basis until they give me a reason to think badly of them.  Surely, if you met someone on a plane from WV, you wouldn’t treat them like they embody all your negative stereotypes without any evidence and be a close-minded, fanatical jerk whose personality is comprised almost entirely of their political opinions?  Never mind, LOL.

I think you missed the point. The incumbent Republican president thinks that people protesting Neo-Nazis are worse than Neo-Nazis. 90% of Republicans agree. So if you pick a random Republican out of a hat (particularly if they're from Alabama), why would you be surprised they're in the 90% and not the 10%? It's simple odds.

[pbrower2a]

Who cares?
These people should stop announcing their gatherings to the general public so that they aren't harassed by hordes of lefties.

These people should stop being wastes of life and stop having rallies.

That goes for both sides.

Very fine person in the house.

You're right, actually. They aren't equally bad. The counter-protesters are probably going to be worse.

A neo-Nazi doesn't bother you more than someone protesting neo-Nazi views?

He's a Republican, what do you expect? Last time I checked the incumbent Republican president that 90% of Republicans approve of and will vote for again thinks the same thing.

I tend to judge people on an individual basis until they give me a reason to think badly of them.  Surely, if you met someone on a plane from WV, you wouldn’t treat them like they embody all your negative stereotypes without any evidence and be a close-minded, fanatical jerk whose personality is comprised almost entirely of their political opinions?  Never mind, LOL.

Judging people for being from a horrible place (and West Virginia is awful by most statistical measures) is wrong. Judging someone for using hateful language, images, or symbols with knowledge of their significance is appropriate is acceptable. We know what a Nazi swastika is and associate it with genocide, slavery, and military aggression. We all know what "Sieg heil!" or "Heil Hitler!" means. We all know what a burning cross, ghostly robes, and the letters KKK stand for. OK, the Klan never got to commit genocide as other fascists did, but in view of their shared hatreds with Nazis, I can imagine that the Klan would have gladly rounded up Jews for gas chambers in America had the Nazis conquered America. Even Communists had their better characters; I will take Gorbachev over any fascist.

The problem with the Nazis is not that they believed certain things. The problem is that they did certain things, and that the ideology seems to be connected to mass murder.

There is no moral equivalency between fascists and people who hate fascism. To say that good people are neo-Nazis or Kluxists is like saying that there are good people who think that molesting children, dealing drugs, or armed robbery are good things. The world does not always divide neatly between good and evil, but some things do. The only way in which I would ever be associated with Nazis or the Klan is in a dramatic or educational performance. Are some people simply deluded about fascism? Maybe.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Is that really a radical principle; the principle that all people have Equal Rights Under The Law, whether they be respectable or not?

It's not, but no one will take your claim to believe in it seriously so long as you prioritize the rights of these people over the counterprotesters who have just as much right to be there, if not more so. The right to assemble is not the right to monopolize public space.

Well, I agree with this.  And if counterprotestors stay within the limits of their approved permits, I'm fine with that in terms of them having a Constitutional right to do this.

And we KNOW the intent of the Neo-Nazis in this situation.  I'm not naive, nor am I condoning Neo-Nazis, period. 

But the counterprotestors are there to actively provoke this particular crowd to violence.  That's why they're there, and they are prepared.  That motive changes no minds, and it does nothing to change anyone's mind.  They are catalysts for violence, they know it, and they take no responsibility for that. 

My sympathy in these protests lies with ordinary, law-abiding folks of all races whose lives are interrupted by the jerkish displays of Neo-Nazis and made worse by the presence of counterprotesters who know that their presence will not change a single mind.

[Karpatsky]

Is that really a radical principle; the principle that all people have Equal Rights Under The Law, whether they be respectable or not?

It's not, but no one will take your claim to believe in it seriously so long as you prioritize the rights of these people over the counterprotesters who have just as much right to be there, if not more so. The right to assemble is not the right to monopolize public space.

Well, I agree with this.  And if counterprotestors stay within the limits of their approved permits, I'm fine with that in terms of them having a Constitutional right to do this.

And we KNOW the intent of the Neo-Nazis in this situation.  I'm not naive, nor am I condoning Neo-Nazis, period. 

But the counterprotestors are there to actively provoke this particular crowd to violence.  That's why they're there, and they are prepared.  That motive changes no minds, and it does nothing to change anyone's mind.  They are catalysts for violence, they know it, and they take no responsibility for that. 

My sympathy in these protests lies with ordinary, law-abiding folks of all races whose lives are interrupted by the jerkish displays of Neo-Nazis and made worse by the presence of counterprotesters who know that their presence will not change a single mind.

I think you are severely misinformed if you believe the right-wing marchers come in peace and the counterprotesters are there to provoke violence in general. Time and time again, the former show up in the most left-leaning cities in the country, many in military garb and armored. They could go anywhere in the country, but they show up in these places to intimidate. The counterprotesters are overwhelmingly the ordinary, law-abiding folks who do not want these people in their community, and overwhelmingly acts of violence are instigated by the marchers. The difference can be seen even in the best-publicized instance of violence by the counterprotestors - 'based stickman'. Even in this most egregious case, who is really coming in more prepared to do violence, the radical college students in black hoodies or the guy who shows up with a gas mask and shield?

I strongly encourage you to go to a counterprotest if you ever have the misfortune to have these people show up in your area. Doing so certainly dispelled for me many of the myths the media would have you believe about 'antifa', and would likely do the same for you.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Is that really a radical principle; the principle that all people have Equal Rights Under The Law, whether they be respectable or not?

It's not, but no one will take your claim to believe in it seriously so long as you prioritize the rights of these people over the counterprotesters who have just as much right to be there, if not more so. The right to assemble is not the right to monopolize public space.

Well, I agree with this.  And if counterprotestors stay within the limits of their approved permits, I'm fine with that in terms of them having a Constitutional right to do this.

And we KNOW the intent of the Neo-Nazis in this situation.  I'm not naive, nor am I condoning Neo-Nazis, period. 

But the counterprotestors are there to actively provoke this particular crowd to violence.  That's why they're there, and they are prepared.  That motive changes no minds, and it does nothing to change anyone's mind.  They are catalysts for violence, they know it, and they take no responsibility for that. 

My sympathy in these protests lies with ordinary, law-abiding folks of all races whose lives are interrupted by the jerkish displays of Neo-Nazis and made worse by the presence of counterprotesters who know that their presence will not change a single mind.

I think you are severely misinformed if you believe the right-wing marchers come in peace and the counterprotesters are there to provoke violence in general. Time and time again, the former show up in the most left-leaning cities in the country, many in military garb and armored. They could go anywhere in the country, but they show up in these places to intimidate. The counterprotesters are overwhelmingly the ordinary, law-abiding folks who do not want these people in their community, and overwhelmingly acts of violence are instigated by the marchers. The difference can be seen even in the best-publicized instance of violence by the counterprotestors - 'based stickman'. Even in this most egregious case, who is really coming in more prepared to do violence, the radical college students in black hoodies or the guy who shows up with a gas mask and shield?

I strongly encourage you to go to a counterprotest if you ever have the misfortune to have these people show up in your area. Doing so certainly dispelled for me many of the myths the media would have you believe about 'antifa', and would likely do the same for you.

I'm under no illusions about the protestors here.  They are scumbags, and not real open to persuasion.  Truthfully, I'm more than a little frustrated about  having to repeat this.  I've never said that these folks were great people.  I'm only saying that THEIR Constitutional Rights are as equally valid as mine and yours. 

I'm certainly open to the idea that the reality of Antifa is different than the media plays it up to be. 

What I'm not real open-minded to is the idea that counterprotesters do any good.  At their worst, they deliberately provoke the people protesting to violence.  While it's the responsibility of the protesters here not to "take the bait" and act violently, acting the catalyst for violence is hardly in the interest of the people that live in these towns that are "blessed" with being selected for these "events".

I wonder if other people here are open to the idea that counterprotesters add to the scope of the problem.  They don't solve any problems, they don't change any minds, and the idea that they "have to let their voices be heard" is rather ludicrous in this age of the internet and social media.  And much of Antifa is "anarchists" and various forms of Communists (although I admit that they are not a very centralized "movement".

It's great to be "anti-Facism".  I'm anti-Fascism; always have been, and I haven't quit.  What I am NOT is an Anarchist.  What I am NOT is a Communist.  That I am anti-Fascist does not mean I am automatically something good and useful.  And for all of those people who view Communism was better than Fascism because Gorbachev was "better" than Hitler (which I certainly won't dispute) I would ask what they would think about the fact that Franco was "better" than Stalin or Mao, at least in terms of how many deaths each one has to their "credit".  (I'd use the term "on their conscience", but it doesn't really apply to those individuals.)  What I'm FOR is for the ability of the average American to live in peace without a bunch of people who, honestly, wish only to agitate in order to drive a narrative, disrupt the peace and tranquility of the law abiding citizens of their community.