Iran war could spark Cheney candidacy for 2008
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Author Topic: Iran war could spark Cheney candidacy for 2008  (Read 9960 times)
George W. Hobbes
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« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2006, 07:03:46 PM »

More actually.

Khobar Towers, support for Hezbollah, shielding members of al Qaida, etc.
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phk
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« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2006, 07:05:17 PM »
« Edited: February 18, 2006, 07:06:52 PM by phknrocket1k »


Iran is probably the last state that would shield Al-Qaeda.

They were vehemently against the Sunni terrorists on thier countries periphereies in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
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WoosterLibertarian
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« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2006, 03:17:49 PM »

I think Cheney's heart will explode before he runs for president Tongue
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2006, 10:00:46 PM »

On topic - Cheney would NEVER run, he's even more unpopular than Bush, plus his heart would leap out of his chest and start hitting Dick in the head should he even consider it. Plus a war with Iran would be an act rampant stupidity, even without the Iraq debacle.


I would like to speak to the idea that Europeans are anti-American. I'm Australian, and have visited both areas often.

If I were to paint with a broad brush - I would say that many Europeans find America's culture very difficult to understand, actually they understand it, don't understand how anyone could actually like it.

It does have a lot to do with the leadership. Watch shows like Not the Nine O'Clock News from the early 80s, and the feelings toward Reagan (this is long before Glastnost and Perestkroika) were very similar to those now toward Bush. This is largely to do with leaders who were very very big military spenders, who spoke in generalisations and who weren't regarded as being terribly bright.

I think many around the WORLD were kind of shocked that the US (as is their right, of course) went from an articulate, detail oriented, Rhodes scholar (I think only in America would his personal life have been the issue it was) to this guy from a rich family, who is percieved as only getting anywhere because of nepotism, who trips over a simple sentence. Maybe to Americans thats endearing to the rest of the world that is terrifying.

People forget that Europe has a long cultural memory - they have been fighting each other for centuries and know the dangers of war talk. Remember Europe has been left in ruins twice in the last century because of war and militarism. While, I'm sure there were benevolent intentions, the actual adoption of things like the Marshall Plan were primarily done to avoid a complete Soviet take-over of the European continent. 
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Frodo
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« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2006, 12:16:36 PM »

This article is crap -Cheney will not be running for any political office after he finishes his current term as Vice-President...period. 
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dazzleman
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« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2006, 12:59:47 PM »

From an Aussie PoV:

Anti-Americanism is steadily growing down here, and a significant amount of it is Bush-related. Aussies had no problem with Reagan, certainly not to the same level as there is with Bush.

Alongside the growth in Anti-Americanism is Anti-European-ism.

At a general level, increasingly the US is seen as domineering, aggressive and rude; Europe as faded, arrogant and useless.

and here we are, finally starting to 'grow up', trying to decide between the UK, the US, Asia and ourselves. The US certainly isn't winning,and the UK and the rest of Europe dropped out of the race a long time ago. We're redefining our image, and whilst 'mum' (the UK) and 'dad' (the US) have a part to play, increasingly Australia is facing the decision not between the UK and the US,  but what course to take in the future-Asia or the west, or maybe NOTA.

Bush doesn't exactly present the west's case well, and the European leaders are so irrelevant, particially I believe by choice, that they might as well be African.

NOTA really isn't an option.  Australia is too small, and not powerful enough, to go it alone.  Alliance with the US and Europe, whatever the pitfalls, is better than any of the alternatives.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2006, 01:07:44 PM »

On topic - Cheney would NEVER run, he's even more unpopular than Bush, plus his heart would leap out of his chest and start hitting Dick in the head should he even consider it. Plus a war with Iran would be an act rampant stupidity, even without the Iraq debacle.


I would like to speak to the idea that Europeans are anti-American. I'm Australian, and have visited both areas often.

If I were to paint with a broad brush - I would say that many Europeans find America's culture very difficult to understand, actually they understand it, don't understand how anyone could actually like it.

It does have a lot to do with the leadership. Watch shows like Not the Nine O'Clock News from the early 80s, and the feelings toward Reagan (this is long before Glastnost and Perestkroika) were very similar to those now toward Bush. This is largely to do with leaders who were very very big military spenders, who spoke in generalisations and who weren't regarded as being terribly bright.

I think many around the WORLD were kind of shocked that the US (as is their right, of course) went from an articulate, detail oriented, Rhodes scholar (I think only in America would his personal life have been the issue it was) to this guy from a rich family, who is percieved as only getting anywhere because of nepotism, who trips over a simple sentence. Maybe to Americans thats endearing to the rest of the world that is terrifying.

People forget that Europe has a long cultural memory - they have been fighting each other for centuries and know the dangers of war talk. Remember Europe has been left in ruins twice in the last century because of war and militarism. While, I'm sure there were benevolent intentions, the actual adoption of things like the Marshall Plan were primarily done to avoid a complete Soviet take-over of the European continent. 

Part of the problem with Europeans and Americans is the way Americans are portrayed both in the European and most parts of the American media.

Culturally, there is somewhat of a difference between the US and Europe, but having visited both Europe and a small part of the Arab world, I have to say that in Europe, I always had the sense that I was in the same civilization, while in Morocco, I felt I was definitely in a different civilization.

The US is an upstart power, while Europe is a fading power.  All the wars you mention have caused the Europeans to lose their capacity to defend themselves.  Whatever the motivations of the US in the world wars and the cold war, the fact is that we helped to save Western Europe from a hellish prospect, and I think that should be recognized.

The relationship between the US and Europe has never been a lovefest.  It never will be.  But the Europeans should not be so insulated from reality as to think that they don't need the US.  And they need us to retain the things they seem to like least about us.  If we become like them, they're lost, because there'll be nobody to defend them.

As far as Cheney goes, there's no way he'll run.  At least I hope not.  He has absolutely no charisma, and wouldn't stand a chance of winning, except under the most extreme circumstances, and maybe not even then.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2006, 02:02:18 PM »
« Edited: August 26, 2006, 02:13:46 PM by polnut »

I don't think it's the Europeans who are insulated from reality.

I'm not saying for a second I have negative feelings toward America - I lived there for more than a year visited as much as I could, and I miss it terribly.

Whatever upstart qualities America posesses, the perception of them changes. When Clinton was in office - who people seemed to universally adore - they were viewed as energeitc and positive - once Bush gets in starts showing off the size of his guns - and essentially starts rubbing Europe's nose in it... it doesn't do well.
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dazzleman
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« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2006, 02:13:30 PM »

I don't think it's the Europeans who are insulated from reality.

In all fairness, I think everybody is insulated from reality in some way.

Americans are insulated from reality in certain ways, Europeans in others.  The basic issue is -- Europeans can't or choose not to defend themselves, so it could be dangerous for them to be too disdainful of the country they expect to defend them.
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Fmr President & Senator Polnut
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« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2006, 02:21:53 PM »

There is a very important point.

I don't like it when ANYONE makes a comment without having the aility to back it up - or just saying something for the sake of saying it.

Even if you put the actions of the US as the height of benevolence - does that there take away Europe's right to independent foreign policy? Or to be criticial of decisions made by the US?
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