Comments regarding the Kavanaugh nomination

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

To all the lefties being indignant: The GOP does not care what you/we think because you weren't voting Republican to begin with. They lose nothing by you hating them more than you already did.

If you weren't one of the 62,984,828 that voted for Donald Trump, he or the GOP could not give give any less of a sh**t what you think. There's only one way to fix that problem: the ballot box.

And to think we wouldn't be in this position now if it wasn't for incompetent James Comey and the left wing whiners throwing a temper tantrum by voting for Jill Stein.

You're right, Comey should have indicted Hillary during the primary so that Bernie would defeat Trump in the general election.

This should be making it crystal clear to you why you should've supported Hillary for SCOTUS reasons if nothing else. You don't see "neoliberal" Obama's appointments issuing awful right wing decisions. I hope the temper tantrum was worth conservative control of the Supreme Court for a generation. On the other hand, I'm sure it felt awesome in the moment.

If Jill Stein wasn't on the ballot, Hillary still would have lost. Hillary lost because she was a terrible candidate.

[Chief Justice PiT]

     I see now that I have made a mistake of getting myself involved in a discussion thread where I would be called upon to moderate posts.

[Pyro]

To all the lefties being indignant: The GOP does not care what you/we think because you weren't voting Republican to begin with. They lose nothing by you hating them more than you already did.

If you weren't one of the 62,984,828 that voted for Donald Trump, he or the GOP could not give give any less of a sh**t what you think. There's only one way to fix that problem: the ballot box.

And to think we wouldn't be in this position now if it wasn't for incompetent James Comey and the left wing whiners throwing a temper tantrum by voting for Jill Stein.

Just stop. You know what inserting this irrelevant bull will do.

Sorry, the truth hurts. And it's not irrelevant at all. We wouldn't be in this position right now if Hillary Clinton was president, and Hillary Clinton would be president if not for those two factors (among many others.) Fact.

Hillary Clinton is irrelevant to this topic.
She is not president and will never be president.

You can rehash 2016 excuses all you'd like but it does nothing to help us in this present circumstance and only serves to derail the conversation.

[IceSpear]

To all the lefties being indignant: The GOP does not care what you/we think because you weren't voting Republican to begin with. They lose nothing by you hating them more than you already did.

If you weren't one of the 62,984,828 that voted for Donald Trump, he or the GOP could not give give any less of a sh**t what you think. There's only one way to fix that problem: the ballot box.

And to think we wouldn't be in this position now if it wasn't for incompetent James Comey and the left wing whiners throwing a temper tantrum by voting for Jill Stein.

Just stop. You know what inserting this irrelevant bull will do.

Sorry, the truth hurts. And it's not irrelevant at all. We wouldn't be in this position right now if Hillary Clinton was president, and Hillary Clinton would be president if not for those two factors (among many others.) Fact.

Hillary Clinton is irrelevant to this topic.
She is not president and will never be president.

You can rehash 2016 excuses all you'd like but it does nothing to help us in this present circumstance and only serves to derail the conversation.

The election which led to our current president nominating Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court is very relevant to the topic. If Trump did not win the election, we wouldn't even be talking about Kavanaugh right now. Elections have consequences. It's a lesson all the whiners and/or lazy people who voted third party or stayed home need to learn.

[OSR stands with Israel]

To all the lefties being indignant: The GOP does not care what you/we think because you weren't voting Republican to begin with. They lose nothing by you hating them more than you already did.

If you weren't one of the 62,984,828 that voted for Donald Trump, he or the GOP could not give give any less of a sh**t what you think. There's only one way to fix that problem: the ballot box.

And to think we wouldn't be in this position now if it wasn't for incompetent James Comey and the left wing whiners throwing a temper tantrum by voting for Jill Stein.

Just stop. You know what inserting this irrelevant bull will do.

Sorry, the truth hurts. And it's not irrelevant at all. We wouldn't be in this position right now if Hillary Clinton was president, and Hillary Clinton would be president if not for those two factors (among many others.) Fact.

Hillary Clinton is irrelevant to this topic.
She is not president and will never be president.

You can rehash 2016 excuses all you'd like but it does nothing to help us in this present circumstance and only serves to derail the conversation.

The election which led to our current president nominating Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court is very relevant to the topic. If Trump did not win the election, we wouldn't even be talking about Kavanaugh right now. Elections have consequences. It's a lesson all the whiners and/or lazy people who voted third party or stayed home need to learn.

More Republicans voted third party than Democrats. Proof is the amount of votes Gary Johnson got and this:


https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/groups-voted-2016/


More Republicans voted third party than Democrats did (by 1 percent but still)

[BlueSwan]

To all the lefties being indignant: The GOP does not care what you/we think because you weren't voting Republican to begin with. They lose nothing by you hating them more than you already did.

If you weren't one of the 62,984,828 that voted for Donald Trump, he or the GOP could not give give any less of a sh**t what you think. There's only one way to fix that problem: the ballot box.

And to think we wouldn't be in this position now if it wasn't for incompetent James Comey and the left wing whiners throwing a temper tantrum by voting for Jill Stein.

Truth!

Infact, pissing off the "libtards" is motivation by itself for the GOP.

And of course the last sence is so obviously true that it amazes me that some people are still denying it.

[Badger]

If Trump would have dropped Kavanaugh and nominated Hardiman, Kethledge, Thapar, or Barrett, this could have all been avoided...

It’s too late to look back, though Kavanaugh was my least favorite of the shortlist, because doing so would destroy this genuinely good man’s career and reputation. Everything’s on the line. It’s all or nothing now.

No, not a good man. His kind are a dime a dozen at the Jesuit school I went to. They're sanctimonious pricks and he's definitely one of them.

I'm sure your anecdotal stereotype counts for more than the people who actually know him.

You mean the people who know him and say he was a reprobate chronic blackout drunk? And an obvious liar under oath during the hearings?

[Badger]

If Trump would have dropped Kavanaugh and nominated Hardiman, Kethledge, Thapar, or Barrett, this could have all been avoided...

It’s too late to look back, though Kavanaugh was my least favorite of the shortlist, because doing so would destroy this genuinely good man’s career and reputation. Everything’s on the line. It’s all or nothing now.

Pfft, no it isn't. Trump picked a bad nominee and team R isn't willing to own up to that and you guys are trying to ram through a flawed nominee. If you just picked someone else you could get them in before the end of the year, probably without any major issues.

This idea that the president picks someone and that person is confirmed no matter what (aka rubber stamping) needs to die and die hard. Can we not just accept that from time to time, a nominee is going to turn out to be unacceptable and that someone new is picked? What is wrong with that? Trump has a huge list just waiting for this.

No sane person is going to be willing to be put their name forward for a hearing on such short notice right after this fiasco. 

Yes, subject to the same horrible treatment has given Neil Gorsuch. Oh wait....

[BlueSwan]

To all the lefties being indignant: The GOP does not care what you/we think because you weren't voting Republican to begin with. They lose nothing by you hating them more than you already did.

If you weren't one of the 62,984,828 that voted for Donald Trump, he or the GOP could not give give any less of a sh**t what you think. There's only one way to fix that problem: the ballot box.

And to think we wouldn't be in this position now if it wasn't for incompetent James Comey and the left wing whiners throwing a temper tantrum by voting for Jill Stein.

Just stop. You know what inserting this irrelevant bull will do.

Sorry, the truth hurts. And it's not irrelevant at all. We wouldn't be in this position right now if Hillary Clinton was president, and Hillary Clinton would be president if not for those two factors (among many others.) Fact.

Hillary Clinton is irrelevant to this topic.
She is not president and will never be president.

You can rehash 2016 excuses all you'd like but it does nothing to help us in this present circumstance and only serves to derail the conversation.

The election which led to our current president nominating Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court is very relevant to the topic. If Trump did not win the election, we wouldn't even be talking about Kavanaugh right now. Elections have consequences. It's a lesson all the whiners and/or lazy people who voted third party or stayed home need to learn.

More Republicans voted third party than Democrats. Proof is the amount of votes Gary Johnson got and this:


https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/groups-voted-2016/


More Republicans voted third party than Democrats did (by 1 percent but still)

Right, because Trump was a completely unacceptable and irresponsible choice, which anyone with half a brain could see. Which is why Hillary should have won in a freaking landslide. And she would have if certain delusional leftists hadn't convinced themselves that Hillary and Trump were somehow equally bad. Those are just facts and I hope that these last two years have been a sobering experience for said leftists.

[Badger]

I'll leave this here:

https://twitter.com/Susan_Hennessey/status/1045789522586456064

The dude was accused of being a rapist on a party line divide. Nobody could stop himself from being angry at the accusing party for that.

I know, the argument then goes that he ought to be replaced as a nominee, since judges are supposed to be nonpartisan. To which the obvious retort is that Democrats should have thought about that before taking us down this road.

Oh for sake. Will the hardcore Republicans Among Us please please please please please stop with this nonsense if the Democrats brought us down this road by challenging a nominee that the Republican Stuck To Me Like Glue who has very very credible allegations of sexual assault, in addition to being the most and partisan, not to mention overwhelmingly supportive of the imperial presidency, nominee in decades??

His multiple accusers and many many corroborating Witnesses of his chronic drunken is in school aren't the Democrats for Christ sake. Cavanaugh brought this upon himself with his behavior, Trump brought it on himself with his own inability to Ben because he's afraid he'll see week or like a loser, and the Republicans brought on themselves like by sticking to those two deeply deeply flawed human beings Like Glue because of Party Loyalty.

If you have a problem with Ford's, Sanchez's, or what's her name's sworn statements, go ahead and say so. Have the stones at least to blame it on them rather than Dianne Feinstein because that's not who's at fault here. Otherwise, please drop this tired redundant and utterly false line of argument

[SCNCmod]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/1045400694050750464

Yet that date also mentions Squi (Garrett).   If Blasey was there, and she was close with Garrett (as she has claimed) why wouldn't she remember he was there also?

Perhaps even more plausible.. is they were drinking late afternoon at Timmy's (then after drinking a bit), then stopped by to pre-party at the House Dr Ford showed up.  (and Squi and one of the other guys either stopped by another pre-party (or perhaps one of their girlfriends houses etc before meeting back up with PJ/Kav/Judge).   Or any number of combos like this... since apparently Dr. Ford considered this a pre-party.. was only at the house long enough to have 1 beer + however long she was in the bedroom/bathroom (and she assumed the others were likely going out afterwards).

July 1, 1982 ... Drinking age in MD changed to 21 (cutoff date for 18yr olds to be grandfathered)... thus Kavanaugh & friends got totally screwed.. just missing being able to legally drink Sr yr & most of College... A good HS reason 4 a protest themed party? w/ pre-parties?  (Start drinking at Timmy's then going to someone's house) At any rate.. an event that could jog ppl's memories?

[Very Legal & Very Cool]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/1045400694050750464

Yet that date also mentions Squi (Garrett).   If Blasey was there, and she was close with Garrett (as she has claimed) why wouldn't she remember he was there also?

Perhaps even more plausible.. is they were drinking late afternoon at Timmy's (then after drinking a bit), then stopped by to pre-party at the House Dr Ford showed up.  (and Squi and one of the other guys either stopped by another pre-party (or perhaps one of their girlfriends houses etc before meeting back up with PJ/Kav/Judge).   Or any number of combos like this... since apparently Dr. Ford considered this a pre-party.. was only at the house long enough to have 1 beer + however long she was in the bedroom/bathroom (and she assumed the others were likely going out afterwards).

July 1, 1982 ... Drinking age in MD changed to 21 (cutoff date for 18yr olds to be grandfathered)... thus Kavanaugh & friends got totally screwed.. just missing being able to legally drink Sr yr & most of College... A good HS reason 4 a protest themed party? w/ pre-parties?  (Start drinking at Timmy's then going to someone's house) At any rate.. an event that could jog ppl's memories?

Still 18 in DC, if they wanted to buy. Not that it matters, we all drink underage.

[SCNCmod]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MEPFuller/status/1045400694050750464

Yet that date also mentions Squi (Garrett).   If Blasey was there, and she was close with Garrett (as she has claimed) why wouldn't she remember he was there also?

Presumably  they all
Perhaps even more plausible.. is they were drinking late afternoon at Timmy's (then after drinking a bit), then stopped by to pre-party at the House Dr Ford showed up.  (and Squi and one of the other guys either stopped by another pre-party (or perhaps one of their girlfriends houses etc before meeting back up with PJ/Kav/Judge).   Or any number of combos like this... since apparently Dr. Ford considered this a pre-party.. was only at the house long enough to have 1 beer + however long she was in the bedroom/bathroom (and she assumed the others were likely going out afterwards).

July 1, 1982 ... Drinking age in MD changed to 21 (cutoff date for 18yr olds to be grandfathered)... thus Kavanaugh & friends got totally screwed.. just missing being able to legally drink Sr yr & most of College... A good HS reason 4 a protest themed party? w/ pre-parties?  (Start drinking at Timmy's then going to someone's house) At any rate.. an event that could jog ppl's memories?

Still 18 in DC, if they wanted to buy. Not that it matters, we all drink underage.

Presumably getting Alcohol in HS was never much of a problem for them... but doing so without worrying about legality, not only their Senior year of High School ... but also 1st couple of years of college... I 'm sure many remember losing this right (especially thinking about the mindset of rising HS seniors)

[Torie]

I deleted every post that related to the topic of the personal ethics and/or religious implications of posters who have defended in some manner Kavanaugh's side of the story, etc. Such a discussion is off topic, and obviously can lead to flame wars. It was particularly disappointing inasmuch as an unusually high quality discussion was going on by the two sides in a civil and interesting manner. And then it got derailed. As I posted in the OP, on this thread posts must stay on topic as to the merits of the Kavanaugh nomination, and the facts related to it. I will delete any post that diverts from that, particularly if it is incendiary.

[Torie]

Regarding Feinstein, and taking her word for it that it was not her office that leaked anything (presumably it was one of Ford's "friends" (who needs friends like that?)), what I "blame" Feinstein for is not reaching out to Ford and explaining to her that the risk was high this would come out in some way, and that if she wanted her charges to be taken into account by the President and the Senate, the best way to handle this was to have the FBI do a confidential investigation of the matter. If sufficient verification of the allegations emerged, then the Kavanaugh nomination would be withdrawn, either protecting her confidentiality or at least minimizing her exposure to the public square. Given Ford's testimony on this issue and assuming it was truthful, I think Ford would have agreed with this approach. Among other things, she testified she wanted Trump to know. But alas Trump never knew, until the rest of us did.

That was a very severe error in judgment on Feinstein's part. And it looks bad, because the way it ended up coming down had the effect of running the clock, which was part of the opposition's strategy from day 1 on this matter.

But it is all spilt milk now. The bell has been rung. We shall see what the FBI comes up with. It is possible that they may come up with some more facts that are either exculpatory or incriminating as to what allegedly happened in connection with the allegations of the three accusers. I prefer to wait for that report myself, rather than speculate.

[Torie]

I found this article from Politico about the Flake affair, and how the deal came down, very interesting and revealing.

[GeorgiaModerate]

I found this article from Politico about the Flake affair, and how the deal came down, very interesting and revealing.

Very good article.

[Annatar]

It should be interesting to see whether the FBI investigation finds anything, politically the most important question surrounding the Kavanaugh nomination is how it impacts senate races and voter enthusiasm on both sides, if polls suggesting voter enthusiasm is relatively high on both sides are true, then that combined with this nomination could get us a very high midterm turnout. Regarding Kavanaugh himself, I think he will be confirmed 51-49 barring any major findings by the FBI.

[Koharu]

I found this article from Politico about the Flake affair, and how the deal came down, very interesting and revealing.

Very good article.

Oh, thank you for thinking this, Torie. This answers some of the questions I had. I still think Flake is a bit ridiculous as a week is very short, but at least it's something.

[GeorgiaModerate]

It should be interesting to see whether the FBI investigation finds anything, politically the most important question surrounding the Kavanaugh nomination is how it impacts senate races and voter enthusiasm on both sides, if polls suggesting voter enthusiasm is relatively high on both sides are true, then that combined with this nomination could get us a very high midterm turnout. Regarding Kavanaugh himself, I think he will be confirmed 51-49 barring any major findings by the FBI.

I'm thinking the final tally will be 52-48 either for or against.  Flake, Collins, Murkowski, and Manchin (should we call them the Swing Quartet?) will vote as a bloc depending on what the FBI comes up with.  The other 48 R's and 48 D's are pretty much sure things.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

If Trump would have dropped Kavanaugh and nominated Hardiman, Kethledge, Thapar, or Barrett, this could have all been avoided...

It’s too late to look back, though Kavanaugh was my least favorite of the shortlist, because doing so would destroy this genuinely good man’s career and reputation. Everything’s on the line. It’s all or nothing now.

Pfft, no it isn't. Trump picked a bad nominee and team R isn't willing to own up to that and you guys are trying to ram through a flawed nominee. If you just picked someone else you could get them in before the end of the year, probably without any major issues.

This idea that the president picks someone and that person is confirmed no matter what (aka rubber stamping) needs to die and die hard. Can we not just accept that from time to time, a nominee is going to turn out to be unacceptable and that someone new is picked? What is wrong with that? Trump has a huge list just waiting for this.

No sane person is going to be willing to be put their name forward for a hearing on such short notice right after this fiasco. 

Yes, subject to the same horrible treatment has given Neil Gorsuch. Oh wait....

There's this thing called the passage of time where people find recent events more salient.

[SCNCmod]

I found this article from Politico about the Flake affair, and how the deal came down, very interesting and revealing.

Very good article.

Oh, thank you for thinking this, Torie. This answers some of the questions I had. I still think Flake is a bit ridiculous as a week is very short, but at least it's something.

I'm not so sure it answers that many question for me... I'm still left wondering whether Murkowski, Collins, and even Flake ... really want to uncover the truth of the matter ... or if they are just looking for political cover? 

To me- it seems like if Truth were the goal... they would be leaning towards No... even if not sure of what the truth is- they would have enough doubt regarding Kavanaugh to conclude that his nomination was too big of a risk to take for the highest court and life time appointment (considering I'm sure they understand how very reliable the type of polygraph Dr. Ford took is- far more than the public understands ... and they have to know that at the very least Kavanaugh was not being truthful in some parts of his testimony... even if these obvious area were regarding somewhat trivial matters)

[Torie]

Often one  cannot really know somebody else's real motivations. For the moment, it does not matter in this sense. Even if the Senators wanted to confirm, and would vote to confirm based on what they know, and view this week long FBI investigation as a nice "excuse" or "facade" for doing what they wanted to do anyway, it has the benefit that something more might turn up, which either will buttress their position to confirm, or if damaging, change their minds, and save them from the abyss. The worst scenario for them here is to vote to confirm, only to have stuff come out later that makes their decision in hindsight to have been more facially obviously mistaken. In making tough choices, more information is usually better than less.

[Virginiá]

Part of an interview Flake gave with Atlantic:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Why does he think that is? Our system of picking judges has turned into a high-stakes game of theft, with the latest round devolving into Republicans stealing over 110+ judges and a Supreme Court justice from the last Democratic president, in addition to ramming through who might be a rapist justice all because they can't fathom the idea of not having absolute power that is unchallenged.

If all these senators are so beside themselves over the lack of trust and breakdown of civility, why not try to reform the system? It could be done fairly... If they just put a little effort into it.

[ponderosa peen 🌲]

Witness to the party, who Kav and Republicans claimed over and over again dispelled Ford's claim, speaks up and says she's willing to talk to the FBI.

Kav is gonna get railed here. The FBI is going to talk to people who insist that he has a history of heavy drinking and most of his testimony is going to get invalidated (because they were all obvious lies). Most Republican Senators simply don't care but a handful may and could change their vote accordingly.

https://twitter.com/Arianedevogue/status/1046032085020893184