Regardless of your opinion of Kavanaugh do you think he tried to rape Ford

[world.execute(me)]

Voted "yes", but will add the caveat that he might very well not have attempted actual rape. But certainly sexual assault. I feel pretty confident that Ford is not a liar. At worst she got him mixed up with somebody else, but that seems unlikely. Seems far more likely that Kavanaugh was drunk and got carried away. Again, that doesn't mean that he attempted actual rape.

This "ACTUAL RAPE" distinction has no real use except to legitimize other victims of sexual assault. And jesus christ on the "got carried away" bit(especially concerning considering your belief that you shouldn't have to ask before touching someone).

[Stranger in a strange land]

Drunk teenage sex.

Until proven otherwise.

"I was drunk" = still rape.
"She was drunk" = still rape.

[Person Man]

Drunk teenage sex.

Until proven otherwise.

"I was drunk" = still rape.
"She was drunk" = still rape.

National Lampoon's Animal House isn't a documentary or any form or guide for character development.

[Person Man]

Drunk teenage sex.

Until proven otherwise.

"I was drunk" = still rape.
"She was drunk" = still rape.

Generally, that is why I left parties around 1 o'clock in my day. Sometimes, but rarely, no one has to be actually drunk. Luckily, there are now much legit ways of meeting people but that still isn't an excuse of something that happen in the 1980s.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Of course he did.

[elcorazon]

Innocent until proven guilty

like OJ

[J. J.]

I will not rule out some other incident with Kavanaugh, but I do not believe that Ford is accurate in this instance.  I think that she might be confusing two incidents. 

Technically, it doesn't meet the current definition of rape under Maryland law.  Would it be a sex crime? Yes, but not rape, even if Ford is completely accurate. 

[elcorazon]

I will not rule out some other incident with Kavanaugh, but I do not believe that Ford is accurate in this instance.  I think that she might be confusing two incidents. 

Technically, it doesn't meet the current definition of rape under Maryland law.  Would it be a sex crime? Yes, but not rape, even if Ford is completely accurate. 

not a rape, but the thread title is TRIED to rape, which seems clear based on the allegations. The question is whether you believe them, which you apparently do(not). I can't tell.

[Xing]

I still don't understand how anyone can know for certain one way or the other.

That's why this question is asking what we think happened.

Anyway, obviously yes. Believing that Ford is telling the truth as a bystander is not equivalent to sentencing Kavanaugh to prison.

[J. J.]

I will not rule out some other incident with Kavanaugh, but I do not believe that Ford is accurate in this instance.  I think that she might be confusing two incidents. 

Technically, it doesn't meet the current definition of rape under Maryland law.  Would it be a sex crime? Yes, but not rape, even if Ford is completely accurate. 

not a rape, but the thread title is TRIED to rape, which seems clear based on the allegations. The question is whether you believe them, which you apparently do(not). I can't tell.

It isn't attempted rape either.  The law requires an attempt to "engage in vaginal intercourse or a sexual act with another."  Even if what Ford claimed was absolutely accurate, it isn't attempted rape.   The current Maryland law is here:  https://codes.findlaw.com/md/criminal-law/md-code-crim-law-sect-3-301.html

A summary is here:  https://statelaws.findlaw.com/maryland-law/maryland-rape-and-sexual-assault-laws.html

It's a definitional thing.  It would, under current law, be a "Sexual Offense,"which is a separate crime.

Now, I have no idea what the statute said in 1982.

[Just to give you an example of the definitional distinctions, Jerry Sandusky was never convicted of "rape."  He never charged with "rape" either.  He was charged with and convicted of "Involuntary Deviate Sexual Intercourse," along with a number of other crimes.  He didn't do anything which the definitions of "rape" or even "rape of a child," as defined in PA statute:  https://codes.findlaw.com/pa/title-18-pacsa-crimes-and-offenses/pa-csa-sect-18-3121.html ]

[pbrower2a]

The theory is now being pushed to the level of Doppelganger. When the explanation becomes absurd one must reject it.

[KingSweden]

I think something untoward happened. I think it’s serious enough that Kavanaugh should withdraw.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Yes. This idea that women falsely accusing men is some sort of epidemic needs to stop. I'm sure it does and has happened, but not nearly as commonly as some may think. If anything, women like Ford are the ones being falsely accused of being opportunistic liars. And that is ever-present.

[DC Al Fine]

Yes. This idea that women falsely accusing men is some sort of epidemic needs to stop. I'm sure it does and has happened, but not nearly as commonly as some may think. If anything, women like Ford are the ones being falsely accused of being opportunistic liars. And that is ever-present.

It's not a question of an epidemic, it's a question of a single accuser, and it's fairly obvious given the stakes that there is at least a possibility that it could be a false accusation used for partisan gain.

As for the OP, I have no idea, but Trump should have nominated Barrett either way.

[Progressive Pessimist]

Yes. This idea that women falsely accusing men is some sort of epidemic needs to stop. I'm sure it does and has happened, but not nearly as commonly as some may think. If anything, women like Ford are the ones being falsely accused of being opportunistic liars. And that is ever-present.

It's not a question of an epidemic, it's a question of a single accuser, and it's fairly obvious given the stakes that there is at least a possibility that it could be a false accusation used for partisan gain.

As for the OP, I have no idea, but Trump should have nominated Barrett either way.

Maybe "epidemic" was the wrong word, but my point is that it's always a knee-jerk excuse whenever this happens. Almost every time.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Drunk teenage sex.

Until proven otherwise.

"I was drunk" = still rape.
"She was drunk" = still rape.

Then again, there are those nutjobs who think what Al Franken did is "rape".

[Fuzzy Bear]

Drunk teenage sex.

Until proven otherwise.

"I was drunk" = still rape.
"She was drunk" = still rape.

Then again, there are those nutjobs who think what Al Franken did is "rape".

Terms involving sexual misconduct, sexual criminality, and DSM V diagnostic criteria are thrown around on Atlas carelessly, from people who either don't know what they're talking about, or just wish to smear people they can't stand politically.

That being said, there's an accuser who has (A) passed a polygraph and (B) had a history of discussion this issue in therapy (documented by progress notes), along with manifesting the symptoms of someone so victimized.  The act Dr. Ford describes would rise to the level of two (2) separate felonies in Florida, and probably so in most states as well.

I don't believe Kavanaugh could ever be convicted in a Court of Law.  But I believe he did what he is accused of.  I don't think he should be confirmed.  I believe he should withdraw and someone else be nominated.  This is, likely, the most justice that will be rendered on this issue.

[world.execute(me)]

Drunk teenage sex.

Until proven otherwise.

"I was drunk" = still rape.
"She was drunk" = still rape.

Then again, there are those nutjobs who think what Al Franken did is "rape".

It was a big f**king deal, and talking about whether it meets the criteria for "rape"(which has a very specific definition that doesn't cover a lot of truly horrific acts), is uninformed at best, and active sexual assault apologetics at worst. "Franken is a rapist" is a 1000x better than "Franken is innocent".

[Fuzzy Bear]

Yes. This idea that women falsely accusing men is some sort of epidemic needs to stop. I'm sure it does and has happened, but not nearly as commonly as some may think. If anything, women like Ford are the ones being falsely accused of being opportunistic liars. And that is ever-present.

I will say that I am disturbed with the impression given by at least some here that such a thing doesn't happen.  The accusers of the Scottsboro Boys, the Duke Lacrosse Team, and Gary Dotson haven't done Dr. Ford any favors. 

[Brittain33]

Yes. This idea that women falsely accusing men is some sort of epidemic needs to stop. I'm sure it does and has happened, but not nearly as commonly as some may think. If anything, women like Ford are the ones being falsely accused of being opportunistic liars. And that is ever-present.

I will say that I am disturbed with the impression given by at least some here that such a thing doesn't happen.  The accusers of the Scottsboro Boys, the Duke Lacrosse Team, and Gary Dotson haven't done Dr. Ford any favors. 

It would be beyond epic if Jeff Sessions cited the Scottsboro boys as a reason not to believe Dr. Ford.

[Fuzzy Bear]

It would be beyond epic if Jeff Sessions cited the Scottsboro boys as a reason not to believe Dr. Ford.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

Drunk teenage sex.

Until proven otherwise.

"I was drunk" = still rape.
"She was drunk" = still rape.

Then again, there are those nutjobs who think what Al Franken did is "rape".

It was a big f**king deal, and talking about whether it meets the criteria for "rape"(which has a very specific definition that doesn't cover a lot of truly horrific acts), is uninformed at best, and active sexual assault apologetics at worst. "Franken is a rapist" is a 1000x better than "Franken is innocent".

NO! NO IT IS NOT.  People should be allowed to make mistakes, it's HOW WE LEARN. Full-on rape is an escalation/power move, hover-handing some boobs in a joke photo does not make a man a "rapist".

[world.execute(me)]

Drunk teenage sex.

Until proven otherwise.

"I was drunk" = still rape.
"She was drunk" = still rape.

Then again, there are those nutjobs who think what Al Franken did is "rape".

It was a big f**king deal, and talking about whether it meets the criteria for "rape"(which has a very specific definition that doesn't cover a lot of truly horrific acts), is uninformed at best, and active sexual assault apologetics at worst. "Franken is a rapist" is a 1000x better than "Franken is innocent".

NO! NO IT IS NOT.  People should be allowed to make mistakes, it's HOW WE LEARN. Full-on rape is an escalation/power move, hover-handing some boobs in a joke photo does not make a man a "rapist".

First off, he's done a lot more than that. Second off, there's a limit to what can be dismissed as just a "mistake".

[Ogre Mage]

I believe Dr. Ford.  Her actions certainly look more truthful, while the White House and Kavanaugh are acting like they have something to hide.

--It is in the record that back in 2012, Ford spoke about the alleged attack to her psychotherapist.  That was long before Brett Kavanaugh was anywhere on the radar for a Supreme Court nomination.

--Ford took a polygraph test and passed.  So far as I know, Kavanaugh has not submitted to a polygraph.

--If Ford is lying, why would she ask the FBI to investigate her claims?  The FBI looked into Anita Hill's claims in 1991, so there is precedent for this.  Yet the White House refuses to ask the FBI to investigate (and they are they only ones who can order it).  Kavanaugh has not asked them to investigate.  What are they afraid of?

--Speaking of Anita Hill, Ford is old enough to be familiar with the terrible treatment she received and educated enough to understand the same would happen to her.  Why would Ford deliberately put herself through that besides the stated reason -- she felt she had a duty to speak out?  She doesn't have a recorded history of political activism and by almost all accounts was afraid to come forward.  Given the death threats she is now receiving, her fears were well-founded. 

[Beet]

I earlier advanced a theory why Dr. Ford may be lying, since then new facts have emerged that I will change my stance on this theory. Since the judge's ruling was favorable to the Blasey family, I do not believe that was a motive, although it curiously remains the only documented connection between the two people. Apparently she did not name Kavanaugh to her husband in 2002, so the motive of making up a lie of being assaulted to get sympathy from him over resentment of Kavanaugh, also appears not to be the case. In reality I do not know what to make of this case. Much depends on the prospective testimony.