Reagan being viewed as unelectable and hated by the Establishment is a myth

[OSR stands with Israel]

At least for the 1980 cycle

Whenever some candidate is trailing or called unelectable people bring out the card that but Reagan was viewed as unelectable and he still won in a landslide. That is a huge myth because Reagan led in the vast majority of polls from June all the way until the election



Also the odds makers installed Reagan as the favorite in May of 1980: https://highered.nbclearn.com/portal/site/HigherEd/flatview?cuecard=3252

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Then another myth people throw out is Reagan was hated by the establishment (especially Trump supporters)


Reagan had huge support from the establishment in 1979 as well: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ted-cruz-is-just-like-reagan-in-1980-expect-people-actually-liked-reagan/


Also his mentor when he ran in 1966 was Eisenhower: https://www.weeklystandard.com/fred-barnes/unearthing-the-eisenhower-reagan-connection

[President Johnson]

Fair points. He wasn't unelectable in 1980 anymore and possibly not even in 1976. Do you think he would have won that year also? I think he might have. Ford should have made him his running mate or insist on Rockefeller. Both were considerably stronger than Bob Dole, who hardly expanded the map or coalition.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Fair points. He wasn't unelectable in 1980 anymore and possibly not even in 1976. Do you think he would have won that year also? I think he might have. Ford should have made him his running mate or insist on Rockefeller. Both were considerably stronger than Bob Dole, who hardly expanded the map or coalition.

Well it would have definitely been close in 76 . I think this would have been the map

Who ever wins Ohio would win the election


I think the myth comes from his primary opponents calling him unelectable (which almost every primary candidate tries to do when they are are close to losing or losing ) and him being viewed as ideologically similar to Goldwater.


It’s a comparison  I never got since Reagan unlike Goldwater was a two term governor of the largest state in the union, a state which was controlled by the Dems at state legislature level and he defeated the guy who beat the two biggest names in California GOP politics prior to Reagan(Knowland and Nixon) by a landslide. He also was  far more charismatic than Goldwater as well

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I think challenging an incumbent President is going to make you be perceived as an enemy of the 'party establishment' no matter what. Also, Reagan was surprisingly weak in the 1980 primary, losing Iowa and several other states in the Northeast and Midwest to Bush, who was definitely the 'establishment' candidate that year.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I think challenging an incumbent President is going to make you be perceived as an enemy of the 'party establishment' no matter what. Also, Reagan was surprisingly weak in the 1980 primary, losing Iowa and several other states in the Northeast and Midwest to Bush, who was definitely the 'establishment' candidate that year.

I wouldnt say Bush was the Establishment candidate because Reagan overall had more endorsements and was the only person polled against Carter all throughout 1979. On wiki say they said Reagan was considered inevitable until his loss in Iowa

I would say for 1980 it was mixed

The Western and Business Establishment favored Reagan

The Eastern and Foreign Policy Establishment favored HW

[darklordoftech]

How was Reagan viewed before Watergate started hurting Nixon? I think when people say that Reagan was viewed as unelectable and anti-establishment, people are referring to before Watergate entered the public conscious.

I'd also bet that 1973 oil crisis and the fall of Saigon helped Reagan.

[OSR stands with Israel]

How was Reagan viewed before Watergate started hurting Nixon? I think when people say that Reagan was viewed as unelectable and anti-establishment, people are referring to before Watergate entered the public conscious.

I'd also bet that 1973 oil crisis and the fall of Saigon helped Reagan.

Not really as a lot of people bring up that Reagan was viewed as unelectable than won easily whenever their candidate is viewed  as unelectable.

Also Reagan was not unelectable before that too


Remember he defeated Pat Brown in a landslide a guy who had beaten two of the most influential California republicans before Reagan (Nixon and Knowland ) and won handily again in 1970.


Reagan really never was Goldwater as he unlike Goldwater was governor of the largest state and also governor of a state with a dem state legislature and also a million times more Charamatic . This along with the fact that Goldwater ran in the worst possible year for a Republican to run other than 1932 and 1936 is why Reagan really wasn’t Goldwater 2.0

[Averroës Nix]

The key point here is that by 1980 the kind of people who strongly supported Goldwater in 1964 had taken control of the Republican Party.

The 1976 GOP primaries are interesting in that, even as an incumbent, Ford was a weak candidate and widely regarded as a national laughing stock. Reagan came within a hair's breadth of defeating him, despite having a very real reputation as an extremist, and only lost because Ford used his executive power to bribe key state delegations supporting him (most obviously Mississippi).

It's perfectly plausible that Reagan would have outperformed Ford substantially in the general if he had wrangled the Republican nomination out of Ford's hands: (1) The primary campaign demonstrated that Reagan was a better candidate; (2) Carter was an unusual nominee who played perfectly against Ford's weaknesses; and (3) Reagan didn't share Ford's unique vulnerability of being an accidental president who had pardoned his corrupt predecessor.

[President Johnson]

How was Reagan viewed before Watergate started hurting Nixon? I think when people say that Reagan was viewed as unelectable and anti-establishment, people are referring to before Watergate entered the public conscious.

I'd also bet that 1973 oil crisis and the fall of Saigon helped Reagan.

Yes, both helped Reagan in his primary challenge to Ford.

I would argue that if Watergate never happend (or been exposed), Reagan would have never been president. Nixon would have been popular enough in 1976 to install a moderate as his successor, probably John Connally. He would have won the general election against a Scoop Jackson or Ed Muskie type Democrat and been a one-termer since the 1977-81 term was challenging at many fronts. In 1980, someone like Reubin Askew or Lloyd Bentsen would have beaten President Connally pretty easily after 12 years of Republican rule in the White House. Jimmy Carter would have never gotten anywhere close to the Oval Office. And the moderate Republican wing may have been in charge of the party at least until the 1990s.

[darklordoftech]

I'd bet that both oil crises, the Fall of Saigon, the Iran Hostage Crisis, and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan combined to discredit the Nixon/Kissinger/Ford/Bush foreign policy establishment.

[OSR stands with Israel]

How was Reagan viewed before Watergate started hurting Nixon? I think when people say that Reagan was viewed as unelectable and anti-establishment, people are referring to before Watergate entered the public conscious.

I'd also bet that 1973 oil crisis and the fall of Saigon helped Reagan.

Yes, both helped Reagan in his primary challenge to Ford.

I would argue that if Watergate never happend (or been exposed), Reagan would have never been president. Nixon would have been popular enough in 1976 to install a moderate as his successor, probably John Connally. He would have won the general election against a Scoop Jackson or Ed Muskie type Democrat and been a one-termer since the 1977-81 term was challenging at many fronts. In 1980, someone like Reubin Askew or Lloyd Bentsen would have beaten President Connally pretty easily after 12 years of Republican rule in the White House. Jimmy Carter would have never gotten anywhere close to the Oval Office. And the moderate Republican wing may have been in charge of the party at least until the 1990s.

I think Reaganism was inevitable due to the rise of the Sunbelt and the Suburbs and the decline of the political power of Big Urban areas in the North East and Industrial Midwest

[OSR stands with Israel]

Bumping in the case that anyone tries to make the Reagan like Bernie was considered unelectable and hated by the establishment as well

[Sumner 1868]

You know, Calvin Coolidge was really electable. Why didn't that help Goldwater?

[Mr. Smith]

Bumping in the case that anyone tries to make the Reagan like Bernie was considered unelectable and hated by the establishment as well

And Hillary, like Ford, was in a uniquely disliked spot. Reagan campaigned far more seriously in '76 everywhere than Bernie. Who knows what would've happened if Bernie hadn't written off The South, and had gone as far into it as after the surprise win in Michigan?

Also, one could replace West and Business Establishment vs FP and East now with West and Youth vs South and Business.

[OSR stands with Israel]

Bumping in the case that anyone tries to make the Reagan like Bernie was considered unelectable and hated by the establishment as well

And Hillary, like Ford, was in a uniquely disliked spot. Reagan campaigned far more seriously in '76 everywhere than Bernie. Who knows what would've happened if Bernie hadn't written off The South, and had gone as far into it as after the surprise win in Michigan?

Also, one could replace West and Business Establishment vs FP and East now with West and Youth vs South and Business.

The difference is Reagan from day 1 had support from much of the establishment as Nixon helped him behind the scenes a lot in 1966 primary

The Republicans seized upon Brown's sudden unpopularity by nominating a well known and charismatic political outsider – actor Ronald Reagan. With Richard Nixon working tirelessly behind the scenes and Reagan trumpeting his law and order campaign message, Reagan received almost 2/3 of the primary vote over George Christopher, the moderate Republican former mayor of San Francisco, and went into the general election with a great deal of momentum.

Eisenhower also mentored him in FP a lot in from 66-68 as he expected Reagan to be a contender for the WH someday as well and if you look at Reagan FP there is a reason it looks very similar to Eisenhower's.

Also the thing is Reagan having ties to parts of the GOP establishment is what allowed him to make the changes he did. Look at Howard Baker response to Reagan's victory in 1980 for one, he was basically saying how this win basically liberates the GOP to do what we wanted to do but never could. Then as Senate Majority Leader , Howard Baker pretty much enthusiastically  just pushed Reagan's agenda through