Kavanaugh accused of sexually assaulting classmate in high school

[ND, SD, MT, WY, and ID statehood was and is unconstitutional]

It's interesting that Ford's attorney hasn't accepted yet. I guess this has to be a tough decision for Ford... but if she doesn't testify, it's game over for her.

If Ford refuses to testify, it honestly creates suspicion about whether she's telling the truth.

Or maybe it could be because she feels uncomfortable with the thought of ever being near Kavanaugh again.

[Alabama_Indy10]

What happens if she chooses not to testify? Does Kavanaugh likely get confirmed?

[Brittain33]

What happens if she chooses not to testify? Does Kavanaugh likely get confirmed?

I'm sure that's what happens. He'd get to testify under oath nothing happened, and that becomes the record, and he gets approved.

[Dwarven Dragon]

What happens if she chooses not to testify? Does Kavanaugh likely get confirmed?

Yep. And honestly, if she won't testify, that plus the fact it apparently happened 36 years ago and that Kavanaugh + Judge completely deny it means the claim should be dismissed, although that does not necessarily mean Kavanaugh should be confirmed.

[Alabama_Indy10]

What happens if she chooses not to testify? Does Kavanaugh likely get confirmed?

Yep. And honestly, if she won't testify, that plus the fact it apparently happened 36 years ago and that Kavanaugh + Judge completely deny it means the claim should be dismissed, although that does not necessarily mean Kavanaugh should be confirmed.

I tend to agree with this.

[Beet]

It looks like my scenario is playing out. Ford probably never wanted to go public in the first place, and now that she's facing the prospect of facing legal consequences and stamping herself as a liar in the pages of history, she's getting cold feet. I feel bad for Kavanaugh.

[Sestak]

It looks like my scenario is playing out. Ford probably never wanted to go public in the first place, and now that she's facing the prospect of facing legal consequences and stamping herself as a liar in the pages of history, she's getting cold feet. I feel bad for Kavanaugh.

Except that the whole 1996 thing, which was the cornerstone of your hypothetical, was completely debunked.

[ProudModerate2]

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This Mark Judge dude is a psycho case.
And yet some Atlas trump cultists, posting here in this thread, want to put so much credibility in this guy (and what he knows/remembers). Are you kidding?

[ND, SD, MT, WY, and ID statehood was and is unconstitutional]

Having to be in the same room as someone who attempted to raped them, even if it was years/decades earlier, is a very uncomfortable experience, and this is probably what is currently going on. Ford feels uncomfortable with the thought of having to see her rapist face to face in a public setting. There is no doubt that the allegations are true, and it is clear that Kavanaugh did indeed attempt to rape Ford either way.

[Del Tachi]

If Ford doesn't testify then there's no way Kavanaugh isn't confirmed.

[Badger]

Having to be in the same room as someone who attempted to raped them, even if it was years/decades earlier, is a very uncomfortable experience, and this is probably what is currently going on. Ford feels uncomfortable with the thought of having to see her rapist face to face in a public setting. There is no doubt that the allegations are true, and it is clear that Kavanaugh did indeed attempt to rape Ford either way.

This isn't a trial where the right to confrontation attaches. There's exactly zero chance that Ford and Cavanaugh will be in the room together at any point in time, or Beyond some really bad snafu in the plans inevitably to be laid to have them avoid any personal contact in the hallways or the light, will she ever have to see him other than on TV.

[ProudModerate2]

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[Dwarven Dragon]

Having to be in the same room as someone who attempted to raped them, even if it was years/decades earlier, is a very uncomfortable experience, and this is probably what is currently going on. Ford feels uncomfortable with the thought of having to see her rapist face to face in a public setting. There is no doubt that the allegations are true, and it is clear that Kavanaugh did indeed attempt to rape Ford either way.

This isn't a trial where the right to confrontation attaches. There's exactly zero chance that Ford and Cavanaugh will be in the room together at any point in time, or Beyond some really bad snafu in the plans inevitably to be laid to have them avoid any personal contact in the hallways or the light, will she ever have to see him other than on TV.

Usual practice for multi-panel hearings is to have the later panel(s) sit in a designated area of the audience while earlier panel(s) are speaking, though perhaps with a case like this, special accommodations would be made.

Having to be in the same room as someone who attempted to raped them, even if it was years/decades earlier, is a very uncomfortable experience, and this is probably what is currently going on. Ford feels uncomfortable with the thought of having to see her rapist face to face in a public setting. There is no doubt that the allegations are true, and it is clear that Kavanaugh did indeed attempt to rape Ford either way.

Innocent until proven guilty. Not necessarily beyond a reasonable doubt, but even the lowest legal standard, preponderance, requires something resembling a trial. Media Spin + written statements /=/ trial.

[ProudModerate2]

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[J. J.]

They are apparently talking about both being question by the other's lawyer.

I would hope that someone from the Senate would ask her, before this starts, if she could remember any additional details. 

[Brittain33]

They are apparently talking about both being question by the other's lawyer.

I would hope that someone from the Senate would ask her, before this starts, if she could remember any additional details. 

Why wouldn't they ask her that as part of the questioning under oath?

[DrScholl]

If she is reluctant to testify it is understandable. Senate Republicans are ready to attack on her.

[Beet]

It looks like my scenario is playing out. Ford probably never wanted to go public in the first place, and now that she's facing the prospect of facing legal consequences and stamping herself as a liar in the pages of history, she's getting cold feet. I feel bad for Kavanaugh.

Except that the whole 1996 thing, which was the cornerstone of your hypothetical, was completely debunked.

No, the 1996 case of Martha Kavanaugh dismissing Ford's parents foreclosure was more of the catalyst that set off my hypothetical.

The real cornerstone was my psychological analysis of why Ford would lie about something like this to her husband back in 2002, and her therapist in 2012. The key insight is that she would have seen very little cost in doing so, so any desire for sympathy from her husband over resenting him would have been a justified (in her mind) reason for doing so, at the time, with little cost.

That fits the psychological profile of people who lie about sexual assault. They are usually looking for something other than getting the accused person in jail. In the case of the UVA false rape accuser, "Jackie", she wanted to win the affection of fellow coed Ryan Duffin. In many other cases, it's to cover up for sexual promiscuity. So they will only tell the people who they need to, to achieve their objective, but will resist attempts to take it to its logical conclusion, like (a) reporting it to the police (b) confronting the accused, or (c) going to trial.

This is exactly what Ford's behavior has been. Most likely she thought she could keep her accusation under wraps and it would never hurt Kavanaugh or herself. It would serve whatever purpose she invented it for, but never have any consequences. The problem with these people is that they get caught up in a web of their own lies, because people around them start expecting them to behave like a real victim, and then they have to act consistently with that to maintain the lie. They become trapped.

That is not to say that Ford could still be telling the truth; I don't know. But the above scenario is the most likely, at this point.

[Mr. Reactionary]

They are apparently talking about both being question by the other's lawyer.

I would hope that someone from the Senate would ask her, before this starts, if she could remember any additional details. 

Why wouldn't they ask her that as part of the questioning under oath?

If she has no additional details to add whats the point in questioning her about those nonexistent details? It wastes everyone's time including Ford's.

[Slander and/or Libel]

It looks like my scenario is playing out. Ford probably never wanted to go public in the first place, and now that she's facing the prospect of facing legal consequences and stamping herself as a liar in the pages of history, she's getting cold feet. I feel bad for Kavanaugh.

Except that the whole 1996 thing, which was the cornerstone of your hypothetical, was completely debunked.

No, the 1996 case of Martha Kavanaugh dismissing Ford's parents foreclosure was more of the catalyst that set off my hypothetical.

The real cornerstone was my psychological analysis of why Ford would lie about something like this to her husband back in 2002, and her therapist in 2012. The key insight is that she would have seen very little cost in doing so, so any desire for sympathy from her husband over resenting him would have been a justified (in her mind) reason for doing so, at the time, with little cost.

That fits the psychological profile of people who lie about sexual assault. They are usually looking for something other than getting the accused person in jail. In the case of the UVA false rape accuser, "Jackie", she wanted to win the affection of fellow coed Ryan Duffin. In many other cases, it's to cover up for sexual promiscuity. So they will only tell the people who they need to, to achieve their objective, but will resist attempts to take it to its logical conclusion, like (a) reporting it to the police (b) confronting the accused, or (c) going to trial.

This is exactly what Ford's behavior has been. Most likely she thought she could keep her accusation under wraps and it would never hurt Kavanaugh or herself. It would serve whatever purpose she invented it for, but never have any consequences. The problem with these people is that they get caught up in a web of their own lies, because people around them start expecting them to behave like a real victim, and then they have to act consistently with that to maintain the lie. They become trapped.

That is not to say that Ford could still be telling the truth; I don't know. But the above scenario is the most likely, at this point.

Congratulations. You wrote the vilest thing I read on a day when I read a description of Donald Trump’s penis.

[DrScholl]

It looks like my scenario is playing out. Ford probably never wanted to go public in the first place, and now that she's facing the prospect of facing legal consequences and stamping herself as a liar in the pages of history, she's getting cold feet. I feel bad for Kavanaugh.

Except that the whole 1996 thing, which was the cornerstone of your hypothetical, was completely debunked.

No, the 1996 case of Martha Kavanaugh dismissing Ford's parents foreclosure was more of the catalyst that set off my hypothetical.

The real cornerstone was my psychological analysis of why Ford would lie about something like this to her husband back in 2002, and her therapist in 2012. The key insight is that she would have seen very little cost in doing so, so any desire for sympathy from her husband over resenting him would have been a justified (in her mind) reason for doing so, at the time, with little cost.

That fits the psychological profile of people who lie about sexual assault. They are usually looking for something other than getting the accused person in jail. In the case of the UVA false rape accuser, "Jackie", she wanted to win the affection of fellow coed Ryan Duffin. In many other cases, it's to cover up for sexual promiscuity. So they will only tell the people who they need to, to achieve their objective, but will resist attempts to take it to its logical conclusion, like (a) reporting it to the police (b) confronting the accused, or (c) going to trial.

This is exactly what Ford's behavior has been. Most likely she thought she could keep her accusation under wraps and it would never hurt Kavanaugh or herself. It would serve whatever purpose she invented it for, but never have any consequences. The problem with these people is that they get caught up in a web of their own lies, because people around them start expecting them to behave like a real victim, and then they have to act consistently with that to maintain the lie. They become trapped.

That is not to say that Ford could still be telling the truth; I don't know. But the above scenario is the most likely, at this point.

Do you have a PH.d to make this sort of evaluation? Do you even have any coursework in psychology? You have suddenly turned into a psychologist expert to defend a court nominee you desperately want jammed onto the court and you have zero experience or education.

There are very few false rape allegations and while many of those false allegations do apply to getting sympathy or to covering up something it is not likely that someone making a false allegation would lie about someone they hadn't seen or had contact with in years. And they would mostly certainly not make the allegations public if they were supposedly fabricated for personal reasons. It's completely crazy to think that a person would lie about something at the risk of drawing unnecessary public scrutiny.

[J. J.]

They are apparently talking about both being question by the other's lawyer.

I would hope that someone from the Senate would ask her, before this starts, if she could remember any additional details. 

Why wouldn't they ask her that as part of the questioning under oath?

It gives them a chance to verify the story.

Ford might remember some landmarks going to the house; they might be able to determine the location.  She might remember some of the other people at the party and they could be asked.

That could cut both ways, obviously.  Someone who was there could remember that Kavanaugh wasn't there, for instance, or remember Ford locking herself in the bathroom.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

People just believe what they want to believe, Clarence Thomas was confirmed and so will this guy, and in the process help save many of muah red state dems .

[Dwarven Dragon]

I support whatever questioning Ford will consent to - open or closed session, senators or lawyers, etc - but some sort of hearing must occur if she expects to be seen as credible and truthful.

Also, Judge does not want to testify:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mark-judge-testify-kavanaugh-hearing_us_5ba15f8ae4b04d32ebfd8c01

[J. J.]

That fits the psychological profile of people who lie about sexual assault. They are usually looking for something other than getting the accused person in jail. In the case of the UVA false rape accuser, "Jackie", she wanted to win the affection of fellow coed Ryan Duffin. In many other cases, it's to cover up for sexual promiscuity. So they will only tell the people who they need to, to achieve their objective, but will resist attempts to take it to its logical conclusion, like (a) reporting it to the police (b) confronting the accused, or (c) going to trial.

Not directed at you, but I don't like to assign motivations.  The reason is that someone can come up with plausible motives.  We can assign all sorts of motives to Ford, Kavanaugh, Judge, but it won't prove anything.

I'm glad that did you did cite a case where the allegation was false.