Serena Williams Tantrum

[Don't blame me I voted for Harris]

I can’t tell if the Conservatives in this thread really are just that stupid and ignorant, or are just doing a good job of pretending to be.

[dead0man]

the cartoon is obviously racist.  I'll have more later (one of my best friends is a black guy that loves tennis).

[krazen1211]

Some people are unable to handle losing with class and dignity.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Some people are unable to handle losing with class and dignity.

Has your kiddie diddler conceded yet?

[136or142]

This witch thinks she is above the rules and that simply isn't so.

Time for her to follow the rules or  off.

I'm pleased here nobody has used the inane analogy of 'this is against the rules, just like speeding' but this comes close.

When there is speeding, it's usually a whole bunch of people that are speeding and it's simply impossible given the scarce resources of police officers to give a ticket to every speeder.

In this situation, there is one umpire and two tennis players.  If this 'coaching violation' was something that the major tennis tournaments wanted enforced every time, there is no reason they could tell the umpire to  uniformly enforce it, however, they don't.

Therefore, since it is a matter of discretion, it's reasonable for the players to look either how it is enforced in general, or to look at how the match umpire has enforced it in the past.  Apparently Carlos Ramos generally only enforces this coaching violation in the most egregious cases.

Therefore, Serena Williams was right to be angry both for the arbitrary enforcement and for the accusation that she was cheating.

It is clearly perfectly correct to question the motivations of Ramos, whether he was motivated by sexism, or more likely, racism.

[adrac]

I can’t tell if the Conservatives in this thread really are just that stupid and ignorant, or are just doing a good job of pretending to be.

They are, don't worry.

Some people are unable to handle losing with class and dignity.

Has your kiddie diddler conceded yet?

[Globalise Operation Rising Lion]

Moderate hero opinion- this cartoon is racist and unacceptable but Serena’s behaviour was also disgraceful and the people most outraged on her behalf are people who know jack sh**t about tennis

[Globalise Operation Rising Lion]

BYW this cartoonist has a history of racially tinged drawings so he in no way should be given the benefit of the doubt

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

To all the privileged white jerks polluting this thread - imagine for a second that you were successful in your own career and didn't have to hate on someone actually successful. Good, now, imagine that even though you have all the ability in the world in your chosen career, no one believes you could have done it authentically because look at you - you are weak. There is no way you could achieve that on your own. You must have taken shortcuts. Even though you put in the effort that others failed to - and even twice as much to overcome built-in advantages for people different from you - no one thinks what you accomplished is legitimate. You must have cheated; stole someone else's work; broken rules to get ahead.

Because of Serena Williams' success as a black woman far superior to any of her competition, she is "randomly" drug-tested to an extent never before seen until she called them out on their bias. The Organization is just dying to tarnish the career accomplishments of a black woman as soon as she returns from the joyous occasion of motherhood - surely she must have taken something to stay in shape, or even just some drug during her pregnancy that we can catch her on to cause a controversy. It's a disgrace. Now a man is so full of hate towards a woman who dares to act competitive and unladylike that he holds her to a standard I have never seen before this deep into tournament play in my decade-plus of fandom and calls her a cheat. The single word calls into question the integrity and entire legacy of a champion. 20 years of work, of constantly fighting the hatred and over-suspicion on account of who she is, and in a moment, it is gone because of two stupid white men. Ramos provoked an outburst from an emotional player to tarnish her reputation. He picked a fight, but she finished it with the support of a stadium full of people. She willingly sacrificed the now to defend the last 20 years of accomplishments.

We are in a new age, white supremacists. The blacks, and specifically, black athletes don't need to stay quiet and keep their heads down in the face of intensive racism to win over the praise of the so-called moderate whites. This is an age of fighting back. I'd certainly pay to see the look of terror in your eyes when the fighting back begins. This is only the beginning.

[BBD]

This witch thinks she is above the rules and that simply isn't so.

Time for her to follow the rules or  off.

I'm pleased here nobody has used the inane analogy of 'this is against the rules, just like speeding' but this comes close.

When there is speeding, it's usually a whole bunch of people that are speeding and it's simply impossible given the scarce resources of police officers to give a ticket to every speeder.

In this situation, there is one umpire and two tennis players.  If this 'coaching violation' was something that the major tennis tournaments wanted enforced every time, there is no reason they could tell the umpire to  uniformly enforce it, however, they don't.

Therefore, since it is a matter of discretion, it's reasonable for the players to look either how it is enforced in general, or to look at how the match umpire has enforced it in the past.  Apparently Carlos Ramos generally only enforces this coaching violation in the most egregious cases.

Therefore, Serena Williams was right to be angry both for the arbitrary enforcement and for the accusation that she was cheating.

It is clearly perfectly correct to question the motivations of Ramos, whether he was motivated by sexism, or more likely, racism.

You do have to consider the fact that Serena Williams' opponent, Naomi Osaka, is not only a woman, but also part Haitian. Does it really make sense for Carlos Ramos to be motivated by either sexism or racism?

As for your analogy relating to speeding - yes, the most aggressive speeders get caught most, but sometimes those who're only going a few mph above the speed limit still get netted. Just because Ramos usually only hands out these violations when in the most egregious cases doesn't mean he can't do it in less egregious cases.

Was this particular violation really a less egregious case than usual?

[Don't blame me I voted for Harris]

Look at all these racists and sexists!

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

You do have to consider the fact that Serena Williams' opponent, Naomi Osaka, is not only a woman, but also part Haitian. Does it really make sense for Carlos Ramos to be motivated by either sexism or racism?

What do people here not understand about sexism? They hate her because she's a woman who loudly asserts herself and doesn't know her place. The shy 20-year-old Asian girl is less likely to be a target. It's the same reason people hate Hillary Clinton when she's aspiring to be more (President) but not necessarily at other times.

[J. J.]

J. J., this isn't the first time that cartoonist released something racist. It just got attention only in Australia before. While you rightly point out that cartoonists use exaggeration, he drew an unrecognizable stereotype. I'd like to compare some of his other cartoons, but the Herald Sun is beyond a paywall, he deleted his Twitter account, and his Facebook requires a login, and I don't have nor will I get a Facebook account.

Can you show some of the others, or at least descriptions?

The other player was drawn as darker than the referee. 

[136or142]

This witch thinks she is above the rules and that simply isn't so.

Time for her to follow the rules or  off.

I'm pleased here nobody has used the inane analogy of 'this is against the rules, just like speeding' but this comes close.

When there is speeding, it's usually a whole bunch of people that are speeding and it's simply impossible given the scarce resources of police officers to give a ticket to every speeder.

In this situation, there is one umpire and two tennis players.  If this 'coaching violation' was something that the major tennis tournaments wanted enforced every time, there is no reason they could tell the umpire to  uniformly enforce it, however, they don't.

Therefore, since it is a matter of discretion, it's reasonable for the players to look either how it is enforced in general, or to look at how the match umpire has enforced it in the past.  Apparently Carlos Ramos generally only enforces this coaching violation in the most egregious cases.

Therefore, Serena Williams was right to be angry both for the arbitrary enforcement and for the accusation that she was cheating.

It is clearly perfectly correct to question the motivations of Ramos, whether he was motivated by sexism, or more likely, racism.

You do have to consider the fact that Serena Williams' opponent, Naomi Osaka, is not only a woman, but also part Haitian. Does it really make sense for Carlos Ramos to be motivated by either sexism or racism?

As for your analogy relating to speeding - yes, the most aggressive speeders get caught most, but sometimes those who're only going a few mph above the speed limit still get netted. Just because Ramos usually only hands out these violations when in the most egregious cases doesn't mean he can't do it in less egregious cases.

Was this particular violation really a less egregious case than usual?

1.This has been answered, but studies on implicit bias also show that blacks are the most likely to be victims of racist attitudes.

2.If he 'usually' only hands out these violations in the most egregious situations, then he absolutely should be questioned as to why he thought it was appropriate in this situation.  If the tennis federation doesn't have clear rules, then it leaves open the possibility of arbitrary application.

3.This is the full quote of what Serena Williams' coach said on this matter:

“I’m honest, I was coaching. I don’t think Serena looked at me, so that’s why she didn’t think I was coaching. But I was, like 100 percent of the coaches on 100 percent of the matches. So we have to stop this hypocrite thing. “Osaka’s coach was coaching every point too.”

I can sympathize with the notion of random application of rules in a way to try and stop all cheating (except it's clearly not working) but this was a Final and Serena Williams has a history of opposing cheating.  So, calling the violation in this case seems extremely suspicious.

This seems to be a clear case of an umpire who decided he was bigger than the game.

[Globalise Operation Rising Lion]

This witch thinks she is above the rules and that simply isn't so.

Time for her to follow the rules or  off.

I'm pleased here nobody has used the inane analogy of 'this is against the rules, just like speeding' but this comes close.

When there is speeding, it's usually a whole bunch of people that are speeding and it's simply impossible given the scarce resources of police officers to give a ticket to every speeder.

In this situation, there is one umpire and two tennis players.  If this 'coaching violation' was something that the major tennis tournaments wanted enforced every time, there is no reason they could tell the umpire to  uniformly enforce it, however, they don't.

Therefore, since it is a matter of discretion, it's reasonable for the players to look either how it is enforced in general, or to look at how the match umpire has enforced it in the past.  Apparently Carlos Ramos generally only enforces this coaching violation in the most egregious cases.

Therefore, Serena Williams was right to be angry both for the arbitrary enforcement and for the accusation that she was cheating.

It is clearly perfectly correct to question the motivations of Ramos, whether he was motivated by sexism, or more likely, racism.

You do have to consider the fact that Serena Williams' opponent, Naomi Osaka, is not only a woman, but also part Haitian. Does it really make sense for Carlos Ramos to be motivated by either sexism or racism?

As for your analogy relating to speeding - yes, the most aggressive speeders get caught most, but sometimes those who're only going a few mph above the speed limit still get netted. Just because Ramos usually only hands out these violations when in the most egregious cases doesn't mean he can't do it in less egregious cases.

Was this particular violation really a less egregious case than usual?

Nope. Repeatedly calling the umpire a 'thief' for enforcing the rules against racket smashing and coaching is extremely egregious

[136or142]

This witch thinks she is above the rules and that simply isn't so.

Time for her to follow the rules or  off.

I'm pleased here nobody has used the inane analogy of 'this is against the rules, just like speeding' but this comes close.

When there is speeding, it's usually a whole bunch of people that are speeding and it's simply impossible given the scarce resources of police officers to give a ticket to every speeder.

In this situation, there is one umpire and two tennis players.  If this 'coaching violation' was something that the major tennis tournaments wanted enforced every time, there is no reason they could tell the umpire to  uniformly enforce it, however, they don't.

Therefore, since it is a matter of discretion, it's reasonable for the players to look either how it is enforced in general, or to look at how the match umpire has enforced it in the past.  Apparently Carlos Ramos generally only enforces this coaching violation in the most egregious cases.

Therefore, Serena Williams was right to be angry both for the arbitrary enforcement and for the accusation that she was cheating.

It is clearly perfectly correct to question the motivations of Ramos, whether he was motivated by sexism, or more likely, racism.

You do have to consider the fact that Serena Williams' opponent, Naomi Osaka, is not only a woman, but also part Haitian. Does it really make sense for Carlos Ramos to be motivated by either sexism or racism?

As for your analogy relating to speeding - yes, the most aggressive speeders get caught most, but sometimes those who're only going a few mph above the speed limit still get netted. Just because Ramos usually only hands out these violations when in the most egregious cases doesn't mean he can't do it in less egregious cases.

Was this particular violation really a less egregious case than usual?

Nope. Repeatedly calling the umpire a 'thief' for enforcing the rules against racket smashing and coaching is extremely egregious

Taking an entire game is extreme.

[Globalise Operation Rising Lion]

This witch thinks she is above the rules and that simply isn't so.

Time for her to follow the rules or  off.

I'm pleased here nobody has used the inane analogy of 'this is against the rules, just like speeding' but this comes close.

When there is speeding, it's usually a whole bunch of people that are speeding and it's simply impossible given the scarce resources of police officers to give a ticket to every speeder.

In this situation, there is one umpire and two tennis players.  If this 'coaching violation' was something that the major tennis tournaments wanted enforced every time, there is no reason they could tell the umpire to  uniformly enforce it, however, they don't.

Therefore, since it is a matter of discretion, it's reasonable for the players to look either how it is enforced in general, or to look at how the match umpire has enforced it in the past.  Apparently Carlos Ramos generally only enforces this coaching violation in the most egregious cases.

Therefore, Serena Williams was right to be angry both for the arbitrary enforcement and for the accusation that she was cheating.

It is clearly perfectly correct to question the motivations of Ramos, whether he was motivated by sexism, or more likely, racism.

You do have to consider the fact that Serena Williams' opponent, Naomi Osaka, is not only a woman, but also part Haitian. Does it really make sense for Carlos Ramos to be motivated by either sexism or racism?

As for your analogy relating to speeding - yes, the most aggressive speeders get caught most, but sometimes those who're only going a few mph above the speed limit still get netted. Just because Ramos usually only hands out these violations when in the most egregious cases doesn't mean he can't do it in less egregious cases.

Was this particular violation really a less egregious case than usual?

Nope. Repeatedly calling the umpire a 'thief' for enforcing the rules against racket smashing and coaching is extremely egregious

Taking an entire game is extreme.

That's the penalty for three code violations

[Globalise Operation Rising Lion]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/it-s-not-just-serena-how-umpire-carlos-ramos-has-clashed-with-players-1.3623344

Ramos is well known for being a stickler for the rules and has gotten into disputes with numerous male, white players. You can say he's overly harsh, but to attribute that to racism/sexism is absurd

[136or142]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/it-s-not-just-serena-how-umpire-carlos-ramos-has-clashed-with-players-1.3623344

Ramos is well known for being a stickler for the rules and has gotten into disputes with numerous male, white players. You can say he's overly harsh, but to attribute that to racism/sexism is absurd

The article also says he seems to be arbitrary in his application of the rules and has been accused before of making himself the center of the game.  There isn't enough there one way or the other to dispute or agree with the accusation that he's sexist/racist.

The first warning against a player who is known to oppose cheating and his snowflake reaction of the rare act of taking an entire game both suggest that Ramos is a complete jerk who has no business officiating.

That he gave Serena Williams the warning for cheating when she was up 3-1 in the second set also strikes me as suspicious.

[Landslide Lyndon]

I know nothing about tennis, but from what I've read Williams had her fair share of altercations with female umpires too (in one case her behavior was truly reprehensible).
Were they sexist too?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The first warning against a player who is known to oppose cheating and his snowflake reaction of the rare act of taking an entire game both suggest that Ramos is a complete jerk who has no business officiating.

The penalties for code violations are fixed and are as follows:

First violation - an official warning.
Second violation - the deduction of a point.
Third violation - the deduction of a game.

After a fourth violation the umpire has the option of forcing the offending player to forfeit the match - losing all ranking points and prize money acquired from the tournament in the process.

The issue here is whether Ramos was right to immediately issue a code violation for the on-court coaching (rather than issue what is known as a 'soft warning' - i.e. a warning that isn't logged on the penalty scale), and whether he could have done more to prevent the situation spiraling of control. I can't honestly say that I was particularly impressed with how he handled matters (in fact it's clear from the transcripts that both he and Serena were totally out of control by the end), but some of the claims here and elsewhere are quite absurd and display an obvious ignorance of the sport, its rules and its culture.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Can you show some of the others, or at least descriptions?

The other player was drawn as darker than the referee. 

Even for you this is a deeply stupid hill to die on.

[Zaybay]

I don't see what's wrong, Serena Williams is a horrible person.

Let me explain this in simple words:

Serena Williams = black woman
This caricature = blatantly racist in the worst ways
Her personality = irrelevant to that matter

K? Or would you think it's legitimate to depict a Jew as a white-nosed lizard if he's a bad person, or to depict a Muslim as a terrorist if he's just a bad person?

Why do you think the caricature is racist?

Bagel, are you kidding me? Look at it!

1. Serena Willams doesnt look at all like the picture

2. Serena has been given racially stereotypical features

3. Her opponent, drawn as a white and blond woman, was not a white and blond woman

4. There is also underlying racism in what is presented

Anyway, I agree with most people on this thread, that the cartoon is obviously racist, and I find it funny that the cartoon, at this point, has gained more traction than the tennis story.

[dead0man]

rules that are only occasionally enforced should not be rules.  In real life or in sport.  Too much potential for abuse.


I feel the most bad for Osaka.  Her first major win is this circus?  Not fair.  She's young and good so she'll probably win more, but if this is her only major?  ugggg

[136or142]

The first warning against a player who is known to oppose cheating and his snowflake reaction of the rare act of taking an entire game both suggest that Ramos is a complete jerk who has no business officiating.

The penalties for code violations are fixed and are as follows:

First violation - an official warning.
Second violation - the deduction of a point.
Third violation - the deduction of a game.

After a fourth violation the umpire has the option of forcing the offending player to forfeit the match - losing all ranking points and prize money acquired from the tournament in the process.

The issue here is whether Ramos was right to immediately issue a code violation for the on-court coaching (rather than issue what is known as a 'soft warning' - i.e. a warning that isn't logged on the penalty scale), and whether he could have done more to prevent the situation spiraling of control. I can't honestly say that I was particularly impressed with how he handled matters (in fact it's clear from the transcripts that both he and Serena were totally out of control by the end), but some of the claims here and elsewhere are quite absurd and display an obvious ignorance of the sport, its rules and its culture.

Not really, the allegation is that the officials behind the major tournaments are sexist themselves, and they've certainly provided a lot of fodder to back up that claim.