Do most racists think they are racist?

[หมูเด้ง]

Racism. Who is?

[Deportarian]

I think this thread suggests people that arent actually racist are in fact racists

[หมูเด้ง]

I think this thread suggests people that arent actually racist are in fact racists

In so much that a man who regularly sleeps with other men isn't gay.

[Mr.Bakari-Sellers]

It's hard to see sin and obviously, it's another deadly sin, and people have to see themselves in order to repent and very few people repent for such actions. So, no people don't view themselves racist, they see others as such

[HisGrace]

It depends on how you define racist, and some people may define it in a different way just to deliberately exclude themselves. But people who hold racist beliefs (one race being superior, believing in stereotypes, exc) obviously know that that's what they believe.

[หมูเด้ง]

It's hard to see sin and obviously, it's another deadly sin, and people have to see themselves in order to repent and very few people repent for such actions. So, no people don't view themselves racist, they see others as such

Something around Wrath and Hubris. And it can cause people to commit envy, gluttony, and lust.

[C r a b c a k e]

I think the problem is using the term racist as a noun. If I say "you are a racist", it feels like an accusatory declaration; if I say "you hold racist beliefs such as..." It's a bit easier to start a dialogue.

(Yes I realise the hypocrisy that these people often denounce political correctness but need to be treated with kid gloves)

For something that I have more personal experience with, I avoid the phrase "he/she is transphobic" nowadays, which I think is unnecessarily combative and makes our community seem too sensitive: I prefer saying something like "that is an unfortunately transphobic statement that could come across as rude..." (Unless they're being a dickhead on purpose, in which case screw em)

[หมูเด้ง]

I think the problem is using the term racist as a noun. If I say "you are a racist", it feels like an accusatory declaration; if I say "you hold racist beliefs such as..." It's a bit easier to start a dialogue.

(Yes I realise the hypocrisy that these people often denounce political correctness but need to be treated with kid gloves)

For something that I have more personal experience with, I avoid the phrase "he/she is transphobic" nowadays, which I think is unnecessarily combative and makes our community seem too sensitive: I prefer saying something like "that is an unfortunately transphobic statement that could come across as rude..." (Unless they're being a dickhead on purpose, in which case screw em)

or urge the speaker or actor to reconsider but that is really talking to people like this like they are 9. Then again, that's what Trump does.

[C r a b c a k e]

I think the problem is using the term racist as a noun. If I say "you are a racist", it feels like an accusatory declaration; if I say "you hold racist beliefs such as..." It's a bit easier to start a dialogue.

(Yes I realise the hypocrisy that these people often denounce political correctness but need to be treated with kid gloves)

For something that I have more personal experience with, I avoid the phrase "he/she is transphobic" nowadays, which I think is unnecessarily combative and makes our community seem too sensitive: I prefer saying something like "that is an unfortunately transphobic statement that could come across as rude..." (Unless they're being a dickhead on purpose, in which case screw em)

or urge the speaker or actor to reconsider but that is really talking to people like this like they are 9. Then again, that's what Trump does.

I think you can view things in context. If someone is being e d g y then they should face censure, yes, but there's no reason to view them as a Klan member.

Racism is a very complex thing, and the most important way we can beat it is by tackling its structural roots, rather than its unwitting proponents (by which I mean individuals that have passively internalised racist rhetoric, not people like the alt right who deliberately try and inflame things further).

[หมูเด้ง]

I think the problem is using the term racist as a noun. If I say "you are a racist", it feels like an accusatory declaration; if I say "you hold racist beliefs such as..." It's a bit easier to start a dialogue.

(Yes I realise the hypocrisy that these people often denounce political correctness but need to be treated with kid gloves)

For something that I have more personal experience with, I avoid the phrase "he/she is transphobic" nowadays, which I think is unnecessarily combative and makes our community seem too sensitive: I prefer saying something like "that is an unfortunately transphobic statement that could come across as rude..." (Unless they're being a dickhead on purpose, in which case screw em)

or urge the speaker or actor to reconsider but that is really talking to people like this like they are 9. Then again, that's what Trump does.

I think you can view things in context. If someone is being e d g y then they should face censure, yes, but there's no reason to view them as a Klan member.

Racism is a very complex thing, and the most important way we can beat it is by tackling its structural roots, rather than its unwitting proponents (by which I mean individuals that have passively internalised racist rhetoric, not people like the alt right who deliberately try and inflame things further).

I can see people who have passively internalizing racism to be like Naso's family and neighbors he has his vignettes about. They don't overtly hate anyone for existing like the Alt-right does but they just know that they have to be prepared for all the stereotypes in the world. Maybe dealing with this issue involves some unsavory actualizations that people from different races look different and have various rates of certain different mutations. This should be taken into context that race in itself has no objective value and is not correlated with productivity or character on a molecular level for individuals. It might be better in the future that we recognize certain regional characteristics without ascribing them to a set part of society.

[Santander]

I don't hide my views.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Most likely. That's why I usually roll my eyes when we are told mundane phrases are super secret dogwhistles. Actual racists tend to be proud and open about their beliefs and dont pussyfoot around showing it.

[Doimper]

Actual racists tend to be proud and open about their beliefs and dont pussyfoot around showing it.

Do you have any empirical evidence for this claim?

[Mr. Reactionary]

Actual racists tend to be proud and open about their beliefs and dont pussyfoot around showing it.

Do you have any empirical evidence for this claim?

Probably as much evidence as you have to the contrary.

[Progressive Pessimist]

The issue is that racism has become a bit more subtle over time. People still associate racism with Jim Crow, slavery, and other more conspicuous examples. They don't understand the historical and societal contexts of why these more subtle types of racist actions and speech are indeed problematic. As such, when they do such things, the defense mechanism within their brain goes off rather than attempting to understand why what they said may be considered offensive or questionable.

[wesmoorenerd]

From a former /pol/ poster, it's pretty simple.

Modern neo-nazis can be divided in to two groups:

1. Those who respect each race, but want each race to stick to their own countries, regions, and culture (ethno-state theory).

2. Those who just generally dislike minorities.

Generally, number 1 doesn't but number 2 does admit and many are quite proud of it too.


I can't say for radical leftists ("fug white ppl!!!111!1"), but I assume they hide their rascism under the disguise of "tolerance", "multiculturalism", and "social justice".

Hmmm, for some reason I wouldn't find it apt to trust a former /pol/ poster on the "racism of radical leftists".

[Globalise Operation Rising Lion]

From a former /pol/ poster, it's pretty simple.

Modern neo-nazis can be divided in to two groups:

1. Those who respect each race, but want each race to stick to their own countries, regions, and culture (ethno-state theory).

2. Those who just generally dislike minorities.

Generally, number 1 doesn't but number 2 does admit and many are quite proud of it too.


I can't say for radical leftists ("fug white ppl!!!111!1"), but I assume they hide their rascism under the disguise of "tolerance", "multiculturalism", and "social justice".

Neo Nazis who ‘respect each race’ do not exist

[หมูเด้ง]

Actual racists tend to be proud and open about their beliefs and dont pussyfoot around showing it.

Do you have any empirical evidence for this claim?

Probably as much evidence as you have to the contrary.

Did Jefferson Davis consider himself a racist?

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

It depends on how you define racist, and some people may define it in a different way just to deliberately exclude themselves.

Yep. There's also a distinction between people who actively believe themselves to belong to 'the master race' and that being black/brown/Jewish makes you inferior (i.e. Nazis) and those who would broadly agree with the statement that "all people (regardless of race) are created equal," but who still harbor some racial stereotypes or a general distrust of 'the other,' whether consciously or subconsciously. The latter is where people like Lee Atwater come in and construct the narrative of the 'welfare queen,' which is not explicitly out of the white supremacist playbook but which does pander to residual racial animosity and negative stereotypes about 'those people.'

[Santander]

Actual racists tend to be proud and open about their beliefs and dont pussyfoot around showing it.

Do you have any empirical evidence for this claim?

Hi.

[Robert California]

Most people carry some sort of prejudice with them. The problem that certain activist groups face is that, when your condemnation renders a certain flaw or sin to be generally common or normal, one loses a lot of leverage one might have in condemning it. This tends to arise when one claims that government intervention is socialism, that support for the police is fascism, and that not complying with 100% of the contemporary agenda is reactionary.

[mencken]

Try asking this about any other belief and seeing how serious it sounds. "Do most Christians think they are Christian?", "Do most gun control advocates think they are gun control advocates?", "Do most climate change alarmists think they are climate change alarmists?" The only scenario in which this tautological question does not have the obvious 'yes' answer is when you use a pejorative label to affix to people with beliefs you do not like.

Perhaps if you feel this is a deep-seated problem, you should debate the merits of any person's argument rather than assuming the worst about their character in lieu of a substantive debate. Someone whose opinion is purely fueled by latent racism should be easily refutable based on substantive argument, rather than character assassination.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I've noticed that racists often try to test the waters by saying something more mildly racist to see if others agree with them.  Whenever this has happened around me, no one goes along with it.

It depends on how you define racist, and some people may define it in a different way just to deliberately exclude themselves.

Yep. There's also a distinction between people who actively believe themselves to belong to 'the master race' and that being black/brown/Jewish makes you inferior (i.e. Nazis) and those who would broadly agree with the statement that "all people (regardless of race) are created equal," but who still harbor some racial stereotypes or a general distrust of 'the other,' whether consciously or subconsciously. The latter is where people like Lee Atwater come in and construct the narrative of the 'welfare queen,' which is not explicitly out of the white supremacist playbook but which does pander to residual racial animosity and negative stereotypes about 'those people.'

When I think "Welfare Queen" I picture a white person.

[DC Al Fine]

I think the problem is using the term racist as a noun. If I say "you are a racist", it feels like an accusatory declaration; if I say "you hold racist beliefs such as..." It's a bit easier to start a dialogue.

(Yes I realise the hypocrisy that these people often denounce political correctness but need to be treated with kid gloves)

For something that I have more personal experience with, I avoid the phrase "he/she is transphobic" nowadays, which I think is unnecessarily combative and makes our community seem too sensitive: I prefer saying something like "that is an unfortunately transphobic statement that could come across as rude..." (Unless they're being a dickhead on purpose, in which case screw em)

I'd dispute that characterization. A large part of what's at issue here is the definition of racism.

I forget who posted it, but someone on Atlas noted that for a large swathe of white Americans, racism is: slavery, segregation, Klansmen, overt discrimination, saying n****er etc. From their point of view, they don't do those things, and they're nice to their black co-worker, so they aren't racist, even though would be considered racist to someone with a more expansive definition of racism. In their eyes, calling them racist isn't ignoring political correctness, its a club, a smear akin to calling a social democrat a "communist" with all that entails.