Some Nazis hunt random foreigners in Chemnitz, Germany

[Tender Branson]

Whatever. How many of these refugees' excess deaths are worth the comfort of Herr Mueller seeing fewer brown youths on the street?

Maybe twenty thousand would have been too many excess deaths? Anyone willing to choose a number?

Fact is that there has been a pile of so-called "unique cases" recently, in which Arab/African immigrants (mostly illegals, with their asylum claims already rejected or with previous crimes) have killed or raped German citizens. These cases are in the hundreds of thousands by now.

Of course the Germans are getting annoyed, now that they are being hunted and killed in the streets. And some are opting for the "eye-for-an-eye" option because of Merkel's failures.

Most people simply do not wanna act like the ultra-leftists any longer and tolerate all of these imported crimes.

Anyway: police are expecting up to 20.000 people in Chemnitz today for another round of protests, called for by the AfD (from 3 states), Pegida and Pro-Chemnitz - as well as leftist groups. This could get nasty.

source on the hundreds of thousands claim?

Do you also understand why vigilantism is illegal in our societies?

A) https://www.bka.de/EN/CurrentInformation/PoliceCrimeStatistics/policecrimestatistics_node.html

B) No, please explain ... (I'm not really that shocked by the appearance of some sort of vigilantism in certain areas of Germany right now though, after Merkel's failures in recent years and her "White German Nazi guilt" compensation efforts = bringing in millions of Arabs/Africans to make up for the crimes of 80 years ago. After all, today's Germans have to suffer for what Germans did 80 years ago under Merkel-logic).

[DavidB.]

Good that these protests are taking place. Germans should not accept this anymore. Calling all of them Nazis is a desperate establishmentarian tactic which is fortunately getting less effective by the day.

[Zinneke]

Whatever. How many of these refugees' excess deaths are worth the comfort of Herr Mueller seeing fewer brown youths on the street?

Maybe twenty thousand would have been too many excess deaths? Anyone willing to choose a number?

Fact is that there has been a pile of so-called "unique cases" recently, in which Arab/African immigrants (mostly illegals, with their asylum claims already rejected or with previous crimes) have killed or raped German citizens. These cases are in the hundreds of thousands by now.

Of course the Germans are getting annoyed, now that they are being hunted and killed in the streets. And some are opting for the "eye-for-an-eye" option because of Merkel's failures.

Most people simply do not wanna act like the ultra-leftists any longer and tolerate all of these imported crimes.

Anyway: police are expecting up to 20.000 people in Chemnitz today for another round of protests, called for by the AfD (from 3 states), Pegida and Pro-Chemnitz - as well as leftist groups. This could get nasty.

source on the hundreds of thousands claim?

Do you also understand why vigilantism is illegal in our societies?

A) https://www.bka.de/EN/CurrentInformation/PoliceCrimeStatistics/policecrimestatistics_node.html

B) No, please explain ... (I'm not really that shocked by the appearance of some sort of vigilantism in certain areas of Germany right now though, after Merkel's failures in recent years and her "White German Nazi guilt" compensation efforts = bringing in millions of Arabs/Africans to make up for the crimes of 80 years ago. After all, today's Germans have to suffer for what Germans did 80 years ago under Merkel-logic).

I want you to specifically demonstrate that there has been an increase in the hundreds of thousands of murders and rapes perpetrated by refugees. Not post links to general crimes statistics. There has not been a hundred thousand refugee perpetrated crimes.

Reason we don't promote vigilantism in Europe is because our criminal justice systems are based on an examination of the facts relating to individuals. Why? Because people with similar views to you and David encouraged collective punishment in the past, leading to ghettoisation, pogroms, etc. And it served no positive effect on society whatsoever.

I am not saying these mob justice vigilantes are Nazis, or even capable of the crimes committed by them. Some are clearly Nazi cultists but I'm  willing to give the group as a whole the benefit of the doubt  But it really takes two people as thick as pig dung to not realise why mob justice, perpetrated by any political or ethnic community, is any way a solution to the migration crisis. Ironic that it's an Austrian and a Jew that team up to defend it though.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I'm pretty sure most of lynching mobs participants in the post-civil war South were just ordinary, normal people who simply allowed themselves to be manipulated by a few demagogues, using the very same talking point we hear now. It's sad, but still can't justify this.

We can talk all days about differences between then and now, but if you fail to see the pattern, that dangerous pattern, you'll one day wake up and see where it lead you. Because if you think this will end on refugees, you're as naive as the likes of Franz von Papen. You give in to such forces, they won't "calm down", "civilize", "go back to normal" etc. They will only grown stronger and more dangerous.

[Tender Branson]

I'm pretty sure most of lynching mobs participants in the post-civil war South were just ordinary, normal people who simply allowed themselves to be manipulated by a few demagogues, using the very same talking point we hear now. It's sad, but still can't justify this.

We can talk all days about differences between then and now, but if you fail to see the pattern, that dangerous pattern, you'll one day wake up and see where it lead you. Because if you think this will end on refugees, you're as naive as the likes of Franz von Papen. You give in to such forces, they won't "calm down", "civilize", "go back to normal" etc. They will only grown stronger and more dangerous.

This is wrong.

As you can see in Austria for example, if you really deal with the situation (instead of ignoring the problems) the Far-Right can be contained and the centrist parties such as the ÖVP and SPÖ are rising in support again. The FPÖ is now dropping again in the polls, after years of rising and peaking during the 2015/16 migrant invasion. You need to deal with the Merkel-made problems and limit them close to zero and people will shift back to the center. On the other hand, in Germany, the AfD has still a huge potential to gain more support. That is the really dangerous thing if Merkel and Co. keep on ignoring the problems.

[Frodo]

Remind me never to set foot in Germany... 

[hangfan91]

So anyone who questions Merkel's immigration policy is a Nazi?

[Tender Branson]

Remind me never to set foot in Germany... 

... says the guy from Virgina.

[BBD]

So anyone who questions Merkel's immigration policy is a Nazi?

I would argue that going round beating up foreigners might be going a little, teensy bit further than "questioning Merkel's immigration policy", but hey, that's just me.

[Tender Branson]

So anyone who questions Merkel's immigration policy is a Nazi?

I would argue that going round beating up foreigners might be going a little, teensy bit further than "questioning Merkel's immigration policy", but hey, that's just me.

Indeed.

Of the 5.000-6.000 protesters last Monday (it was later revised up by police from the 1.000 in my thread title), about 1.000 were real Nazis or hooligan skinheads.

The other protesters are middle-class, so-called "concerned citizens" or "enraged citizens" (Wutbürger), who are certainly no Nazis but who are deeply opposed to Merkel's and the Left's ideology of transforming or replacing German society through uncontrolled mass immigration and opposed to ignoring all the problems that are resulting out of it.

[Tender Branson]

The protests yesterday were not as large and violent as thought by the police.

About 5.000 supporters each showed up for the Right and Left.









---

[Greatblueheron]

Even though im a Left-wing Social Democrat who’s usually pro-immigrant, It’s becoming obvious to any unbiased observer that Merkels policy of importing millions of Refugees from war-torn countries in Africa and the Middle East, and ignoring the subsequent spike in violent crime and drain on the social safety net, is a unmitigated disaster. Honestly, a lot of my fellow leftists need to understand that most European countries do not have a long history of immigration and multiculturalism like America. Instead, for most of their history they’ve been realitively homogenous, Nation-states, dominated by one specific ethnic group (Germans in Germany, French in France, Italians in Italy, English in England, Russians in Russia, Spanish in Spain, etc). This means that most of them are not prepared for, and shouldn’t be subjected to, massive demographic shifts that will change the very essence of their countries and could backfire and lead to massive violence and economic collapse.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Last weekend, a mob of ten asylum seekers raided a club called Frosch in Frankfurt, Brandenburg (not the big city in Hesse), by means of stones, knives and iron rods, while screaming "Allahu akbar" and "We are Arabs and we're going to kill you". The guests compared the assault to war scenes, they tried to hold the entrance door closed, and guest who fled to his car was being chased and two guests were eventually injured. One of the assailants has a long criminal record and is now in custody awaiting trial; only last week he attacked a man with a baseball bat.
Several incidents have happened in Frankfurt during the last months; for instance, several minor refugees assaulted the police. The problem has become so serious that the mayor René Wilke, who is a member of the Left (!), wants to deport delinquent refugees from now on.

None, I repeat, none of the big media has taken up this issue. You have to search the local media in order to find some information.

https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/polizeibericht/article215211971/Gruppe-junger-Syrer-greift-mit-Messern-und-Stangen-Club-an.html
https://www.moz.de/landkreise/oder-spree/frankfurt-oder/artikel9/dg/0/1/1678214/
https://www.moz.de/nachrichten/brandenburg/artikel-ansicht/dg/0/1/1678195/
https://deutsch.rt.com/inland/75375-club-in-frankfurt-oder-wird-von-fluechtlingen-angegriffen/

And here you can see how disrespectfully and aggressively refugees towards the police and therefore against the state authority:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E26X5PTe2E8

[palandio]

And once again there is a very thin line between
1. acknowledging that a noticeable part of recent asylum seekers is causing serious problems and
2. generalizing to all refugees or almost all of them. ("And some of them, I assume, are good people.")

[seb_pard]

Even though im a Left-wing Social Democrat who’s usually pro-immigrant, It’s becoming obvious to any unbiased observer that Merkels policy of importing millions of Refugees from war-torn countries in Africa and the Middle East, and ignoring the subsequent spike in violent crime and drain on the social safety net, is a unmitigated disaster. Honestly, a lot of my fellow leftists need to understand that most European countries do not have a long history of immigration and multiculturalism like America. Instead, for most of their history they’ve been realitively homogenous, Nation-states, dominated by one specific ethnic group (Germans in Germany, French in France, Italians in Italy, English in England, Russians in Russia, Spanish in Spain, etc). This means that most of them are not prepared for, and shouldn’t be subjected to, massive demographic shifts that will change the very essence of their countries and could backfire and lead to massive violence and economic collapse.

So you can delete this article and this one. Also most of european countries have developed through a dynamic process that have involved several nations and people (for example France). You can't deny a sense of identity in Brittany, southern France (French Basque Country or Northern Catalunya) and other parts.

Honestly I see a lot of aporophobia in these protests, although recognizing that there are integration issues that can be solved. Nevertheless, I see a permissiveness towards conservative arab money that encourage religious extremism (sometimes I feel that some people from the extreme right prefer this to keep to encourage a higher tension).

[parochial boy]

Even though im a Left-wing Social Democrat who’s usually pro-immigrant, It’s becoming obvious to any unbiased observer that Merkels policy of importing millions of Refugees from war-torn countries in Africa and the Middle East, and ignoring the subsequent spike in violent crime and drain on the social safety net, is a unmitigated disaster. Honestly, a lot of my fellow leftists need to understand that most European countries do not have a long history of immigration and multiculturalism like America. Instead, for most of their history they’ve been realitively homogenous, Nation-states, dominated by one specific ethnic group (Germans in Germany, French in France, Italians in Italy, English in England, Russians in Russia, Spanish in Spain, etc). This means that most of them are not prepared for, and shouldn’t be subjected to, massive demographic shifts that will change the very essence of their countries and could backfire and lead to massive violence and economic collapse.

So you can delete this article and this one. Also most of european countries have developed through a dynamic process that have involved several nations and people (for example France). You can't deny a sense of identity in Brittany, southern France (French Basque Country or Northern Catalunya) and other parts.

Honestly I see a lot of aporophobia in these protests, although recognizing that there are integration issues that can be solved. Nevertheless, I see a permissiveness towards conservative arab money that encourage religious extremism (sometimes I feel that some people from the extreme right prefer this to keep to encourage a higher tension).

Yes, and plenty of European cities do have long, well established histories as centres of immigration - think of the waves of Huguenot or Jewish refugees; or German or Irish migrants who moved to places like Geneva or London over the centuries. It doesn't really do to make sweeping, simplistic generalisations what European nation-states are.

And tbh, I'm kind of sick of this narrative that Europeans are all inveterate xenophobes when it was the Americans who elected Donald Trump. Parties like SD, of AfD, or the UDC are polling in the teens or twenties, and those are in countries that all have higher rates of immigration than the US does.

[Former President tack50]

Even though im a Left-wing Social Democrat who’s usually pro-immigrant, It’s becoming obvious to any unbiased observer that Merkels policy of importing millions of Refugees from war-torn countries in Africa and the Middle East, and ignoring the subsequent spike in violent crime and drain on the social safety net, is a unmitigated disaster. Honestly, a lot of my fellow leftists need to understand that most European countries do not have a long history of immigration and multiculturalism like America. Instead, for most of their history they’ve been realitively homogenous, Nation-states, dominated by one specific ethnic group (Germans in Germany, French in France, Italians in Italy, English in England, Russians in Russia, Spanish in Spain, etc). This means that most of them are not prepared for, and shouldn’t be subjected to, massive demographic shifts that will change the very essence of their countries and could backfire and lead to massive violence and economic collapse.

So you can delete this article and this one. Also most of european countries have developed through a dynamic process that have involved several nations and people (for example France). You can't deny a sense of identity in Brittany, southern France (French Basque Country or Northern Catalunya) and other parts.

Honestly I see a lot of aporophobia in these protests, although recognizing that there are integration issues that can be solved. Nevertheless, I see a permissiveness towards conservative arab money that encourage religious extremism (sometimes I feel that some people from the extreme right prefer this to keep to encourage a higher tension).

Yes, and plenty of European cities do have long, well established histories as centres of immigration - think of the waves of Huguenot or Jewish refugees; or German or Irish migrants who moved to places like Geneva or London over the centuries. It doesn't really do to make sweeping, simplistic generalisations what European nation-states are.

And tbh, I'm kind of sick of this narrative that Europeans are all inveterate xenophobes when it was the Americans who elected Donald Trump. Parties like SD, of AfD, or the UDC are polling in the teens or twenties, and those are in countries that all have higher rates of immigration than the US does.

The only reason this is a thing is because most of Europe has a multi party system while the US have a ridiculously strict 2 party system for several reasons.

Another way to put it, Trump got 14 million primary votes. The total primary votes for republicans was approximately 30.7 million, plus another 30.1 million votes in the democratic primaries.

That means that in a hypothetical "multi party US" Trump would have taken 14/60.8 million votes, or 23% of the vote. That would be a very good showing for a right populist party in Europe, depending on country, especially considering that he would technically win the popular vote (getting around 400k more votes than Clinton, the runner-up) even if I don't think he would eventually get into power.

However it's not that far off from say, Le Pen's 21.3% in 2017.

[parochial boy]

But remember Le Pen lost by a 2:1 margin in the run off. Even in Switzerland the UDC are only the 4th largest party in the conseil des états, where you need to run off votes; and while Hofer almost pulled off the run off in 2016, the Austrian presidency is a largely ceremonial role which would lend itself to protest voting.

given that those are pretty much the three West European countries with the strongest RWPP traditions - I think we can say there aren't many places where a Trump style populist would win in a two party run off (and bear in mind that most right wing voters in Europe would have chosen Clinton over Trump - and not for her economic positions).

[DC Al Fine]

But remember Le Pen lost by a 2:1 margin in the run off. Even in Switzerland the UDC are only the 4th largest party in the conseil des états, where you need to run off votes; and while Hofer almost pulled off the run off in 2016, the Austrian presidency is a largely ceremonial role which would lend itself to protest voting.

given that those are pretty much the three West European countries with the strongest RWPP traditions - I think we can say there aren't many places where a Trump style populist would win in a two party run off (and bear in mind that most right wing voters in Europe would have chosen Clinton over Trump - and not for her economic positions).

Winning the nomination and eventually the general election in a two party system vs winning a run off in a multi party system is an apples to oranges comparison IMO. Party loyalties and the thought process going into one's vote are a tad different. It seems much easier for a lifelong GOP voter to rationalize voting for a GOP ticket with Trump on it than a lifelong UMP/LR voter to rationalize voting for a LePen Front National ticket.

In the same vein, a Corbyn win would not indicate to me that the UK is especially anti-semitic and I would be skeptical he'd do as well as he currently is in a French style multiple party system.

[parochial boy]

But remember Le Pen lost by a 2:1 margin in the run off. Even in Switzerland the UDC are only the 4th largest party in the conseil des états, where you need to run off votes; and while Hofer almost pulled off the run off in 2016, the Austrian presidency is a largely ceremonial role which would lend itself to protest voting.

given that those are pretty much the three West European countries with the strongest RWPP traditions - I think we can say there aren't many places where a Trump style populist would win in a two party run off (and bear in mind that most right wing voters in Europe would have chosen Clinton over Trump - and not for her economic positions).

Winning the nomination and eventually the general election in a two party system vs winning a run off in a multi party system is an apples to oranges comparison IMO. Party loyalties and the thought process going into one's vote are a tad different. It seems much easier for a lifelong GOP voter to rationalize voting for a GOP ticket with Trump on it than a lifelong UMP/LR voter to rationalize voting for a LePen Front National ticket.

Maybe so, but it's the closest comparison that you can get, and bear in mind varyingly that
 - comparing primary votes in the US is no better, especially given the timetable, caucuses v primaries and so on
 - France has weak party identification, which should make switching to a RWPP easier for right wing voters
 - the UDC do as badly in run offs now as they did before they became a right-wing populist party, which means they must be putting off at least some voters who used to be happy to switch to them

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Seeing as almost nobody votes for Corbyn because of his opinion of Jews (and even Israel was not something he campaigned on at all in 2017), I think that is somewhat of an unfair point. Far more fair to say that Brexit shows that the Brits are racist, as that was a campaign that did play on ethnic resentment far more explicitely. (which is besides the point somewhat, I wasn't trying to make some claim about which countries are more racist than others - more that it is somewhat galling to be lectured to by American leftists, as if the US doesn't have a significant level nativist sentiment or levels of ethnic resentment itself).

[Sumner 1868]

I wasn't trying to make some claim about which countries are more racist than others - more that it is somewhat galling to be lectured to by American leftists, as if the US doesn't have a significant level nativist sentiment or levels of ethnic resentment itself).

This "lecturing" is barely equal to a thirtieth of vice versa rhetoric.

[dead0man]

And tbh, I'm kind of sick of this narrative that Europeans are all inveterate xenophobes when it was the Americans who elected Donald Trump. Parties like SD, of AfD, or the UDC are polling in the teens or twenties, and those are in countries that all have higher rates of immigration than the US does.

Germany and Austria have pretty much the same percentage of it's population as immigrants compared to America (14.9-Ger, 15.2-Aus and 14.3-US) and every other country in Europe (that counts) is lower than America.  cite

granted, Mexican immigrants NEVER blow sh**t up or drive a truck through a crowd and rarely rape your little sister and also, we let them work and don't round them up into cages. (well, maybe a little)

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Right now, 50,000 left-wing extremists are attending an Antifa concert, officially a free concert "against the right". Some of the "musicians" are undersurveillance of the intelligence service.

[Zinneke]

Right now, 50,000 left-wing extremists are attending an Antifa concert, officially a free concert "against the right". Some of the "musicians" are undersurveillance of the intelligence service.

As reductionist as saying all the anti-refugee protesters are right-wing extremist, congratulations.

What exactly is wrong with the concept of anti-fascism as a political idea? I disagree with a lot of the methods of the Alerta Network (as it sometimes comes close to the topic), and I don't like the holier-than-thou liberal-left that sometimes inhabits it, but I don't see how it can be in any way put on the same level as the far right.

Even though im a Left-wing Social Democrat who’s usually pro-immigrant, It’s becoming obvious to any unbiased observer that Merkels policy of importing millions of Refugees from war-torn countries in Africa and the Middle East, and ignoring the subsequent spike in violent crime and drain on the social safety net, is a unmitigated disaster. Honestly, a lot of my fellow leftists need to understand that most European countries do not have a long history of immigration and multiculturalism like America. Instead, for most of their history they’ve been realitively homogenous, Nation-states, dominated by one specific ethnic group (Germans in Germany, French in France, Italians in Italy, English in England, Russians in Russia, Spanish in Spain, etc). This means that most of them are not prepared for, and shouldn’t be subjected to, massive demographic shifts that will change the very essence of their countries and could backfire and lead to massive violence and economic collapse.

You realise one of the most unique things about this protest was also the bizarre reversion to Saxon identity expressed at the protest?

In fact, are you aware of German history and state formation in general? It seems to me people have this bizarre conception of a pre-civilizational utopia of primordial nations with strict borders living in peace with each other before the liberals/globalists/modernists/etc ruined the party with intercultural contact. Its almost as absurd as the Marxist primitive communism theory.


Also Tender has yet to prove to me that refugee crime numbers are in the hundred thousands.
 

[President Johnson]

And tbh, I'm kind of sick of this narrative that Europeans are all inveterate xenophobes when it was the Americans who elected Donald Trump. Parties like SD, of AfD, or the UDC are polling in the teens or twenties, and those are in countries that all have higher rates of immigration than the US does.

Germany and Austria have pretty much the same percentage of it's population as immigrants compared to America (14.9-Ger, 15.2-Aus and 14.3-US) and every other country in Europe (that counts) is lower than America.  cite

granted, Mexican immigrants NEVER blow sh**t up or drive a truck through a crowd and rarely rape your little sister and also, we let them work and don't round them up into cages. (well, maybe a little)

I agree with dead0man. The immigration from Islamic countries is in large parts not comparable with Mexican immigration to the United States. Not even Muslims in America, because most of them are highly educated. The mistakes were made on both sides though.