ICE arrests and deports a former Nazi SS concentration camp guard

[Strudelcutie4427]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/08/21/nazi-labor-camp-guard-caught-by-ice-deported-to-germany-white-house-says.html

Should ICE still be abolished?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Should ICE still be abolished?

Yes.

[Koharu]

I wish there was more information about the deportation order in the article. I'm not a fan of punitive measures against former Nazis now. "Punishing" 80+ year-old people whose crimes were nearly 80 years ago is pointless. They've already lived their lives without punishment, and imprisoning them now only makes us feel like we're doing something useful. It's not useful, and by this point, may actually embolden/enrage those who would like to follow in their footsteps. I got the same icky feeling when Germany tried a former Nazi recently.

It does piss me off that this guy got in when my relatives had to go to Australia instead since there was a stringent quota on German migrants after WW2, but sending him back now won't change the past and it certainly won't do anything positive for the world now.

So, yeah, ICE still needs major reforms and this is a stupid thing.

[DavidB.]

I wish there was more information about the deportation order in the article. I'm not a fan of punitive measures against former Nazis now. "Punishing" 80+ year-old people whose crimes were nearly 80 years ago is pointless. They've already lived their lives without punishment, and imprisoning them now only makes us feel like we're doing something useful. It's not useful, and by this point, may actually embolden/enrage those who would like to follow in their footsteps. I got the same icky feeling when Germany tried a former Nazi recently.

Why should they get away with their crimes? Some of their victims could still have lived if not for these people's horrendous, murderous actions. The perpetrators' age should not matter. This is not a speeding ticket. And they have been hiding and lying in order not to be held accountable for their crimes. I think it is extremely important that for the sake of justice, people like this camp guard get a trial and are locked up.

[Koharu]

I wish there was more information about the deportation order in the article. I'm not a fan of punitive measures against former Nazis now. "Punishing" 80+ year-old people whose crimes were nearly 80 years ago is pointless. They've already lived their lives without punishment, and imprisoning them now only makes us feel like we're doing something useful. It's not useful, and by this point, may actually embolden/enrage those who would like to follow in their footsteps. I got the same icky feeling when Germany tried a former Nazi recently.

Why should they get away with their crimes? Some of their victims could still have lived if not for these people's horrendous, murderous actions. The perpetrators' age should not matter. This is not a speeding ticket. And they have been hiding and lying in order not to be held accountable for their crimes. I think it is extremely important that for the sake of justice, people like this camp guard get a trial and are locked up.

That's why I'd like to see the deportation order. Is it believed he was a willing participant? Then perhaps this is justified. But many Germans were desperate and brain-washed and feared for their own lives of they did not serve. That doesn't justify murder and torture by any means, but I do think it is important to consider in seeking justice now.

I'm not saying he should for sure get off Scott-free, bit rather that this type of thing is very nuanced and complicated, and in my case, feels like it's just an act to assuage cultural guilt rather than accomplishing anything useful like actually tackling anti-Semitism or racism in any real and meaningful way. Yay, we locked up this Nazi so obviously we can't be Nazis, even though hate crimes are on the rise and there are politicians not even attempting to hide their prejudicial hatred! We're obviously freedom fighters yeahhh.

This is not a simple, black-and-white issue, so it certainly doesn't change my view on ICE.

[DavidB.]

I wish there was more information about the deportation order in the article. I'm not a fan of punitive measures against former Nazis now. "Punishing" 80+ year-old people whose crimes were nearly 80 years ago is pointless. They've already lived their lives without punishment, and imprisoning them now only makes us feel like we're doing something useful. It's not useful, and by this point, may actually embolden/enrage those who would like to follow in their footsteps. I got the same icky feeling when Germany tried a former Nazi recently.

Why should they get away with their crimes? Some of their victims could still have lived if not for these people's horrendous, murderous actions. The perpetrators' age should not matter. This is not a speeding ticket. And they have been hiding and lying in order not to be held accountable for their crimes. I think it is extremely important that for the sake of justice, people like this camp guard get a trial and are locked up.

That's why I'd like to see the deportation order. Is it believed he was a willing participant? Then perhaps this is justified. But many Germans were desperate and brain-washed and feared for their own lives of they did not serve. That doesn't justify murder and torture by any means, but I do think it is important to consider in seeking justice now.

I'm not saying he should for sure get off Scott-free, bit rather that this type of thing is very nuanced and complicated, and in my case, feels like it's just an act to assuage cultural guilt rather than accomplishing anything useful like actually tackling anti-Semitism or racism in any real and meaningful way. Yay, we locked up this Nazi so obviously we can't be Nazis, even though hate crimes are on the rise and there are politicians not even attempting to hide their prejudicial hatred! We're obviously freedom fighters yeahhh.

This is not a simple, black-and-white issue, so it certainly doesn't change my view on ICE.

Based on his name, I strongly doubt he was German - more likely someone from the eastern lands conquered by the Germans who willingly took part in this SS training camp and subsequently became a guard. Not that I really care whether he was secretly really scared or had good intentions.

There are many examples of anti-Nazi "virtue signalling". Trying and locking up a literal perpetrator of atrocities in the Shoah is not one, however. If anything, it is an affront to the victims of his murderous actions not to try him because he's old and weak. These victims could have been old and weak too right now, but they were slaughtered some 75 years ago.

I'm not asking you to change your opinion of ICE on this. It's not that relevant. But I am completely astounded and, quite frankly, disgusted that some people think it is unjust to try and lock up people who took part in one of the biggest crimes that ever happened, just because they managed to successfully escape justice for a long time.

[Strudelcutie4427]

I wish there was more information about the deportation order in the article. I'm not a fan of punitive measures against former Nazis now. "Punishing" 80+ year-old people whose crimes were nearly 80 years ago is pointless. They've already lived their lives without punishment, and imprisoning them now only makes us feel like we're doing something useful. It's not useful, and by this point, may actually embolden/enrage those who would like to follow in their footsteps. I got the same icky feeling when Germany tried a former Nazi recently.

Why should they get away with their crimes? Some of their victims could still have lived if not for these people's horrendous, murderous actions. The perpetrators' age should not matter. This is not a speeding ticket. And they have been hiding and lying in order not to be held accountable for their crimes. I think it is extremely important that for the sake of justice, people like this camp guard get a trial and are locked up.

That's why I'd like to see the deportation order. Is it believed he was a willing participant? Then perhaps this is justified. But many Germans were desperate and brain-washed and feared for their own lives of they did not serve. That doesn't justify murder and torture by any means, but I do think it is important to consider in seeking justice now.

I'm not saying he should for sure get off Scott-free, bit rather that this type of thing is very nuanced and complicated, and in my case, feels like it's just an act to assuage cultural guilt rather than accomplishing anything useful like actually tackling anti-Semitism or racism in any real and meaningful way. Yay, we locked up this Nazi so obviously we can't be Nazis, even though hate crimes are on the rise and there are politicians not even attempting to hide their prejudicial hatred! We're obviously freedom fighters yeahhh.

This is not a simple, black-and-white issue, so it certainly doesn't change my view on ICE.

Judging by his name which looks to be Polish or Ukrainian, and the fact that he was from the Lviv area, it’s not like he was exposed to a decade of Adolf’s propaganda before joining the cause. I have no sympathy for Nazis and communists so if this guy was a higher up or a very significant player, let’s get Nuremberg started back up

[Joe Biden 2024]

A broken clock is still right twice a day.

[Koharu]

I wish there was more information about the deportation order in the article. I'm not a fan of punitive measures against former Nazis now. "Punishing" 80+ year-old people whose crimes were nearly 80 years ago is pointless. They've already lived their lives without punishment, and imprisoning them now only makes us feel like we're doing something useful. It's not useful, and by this point, may actually embolden/enrage those who would like to follow in their footsteps. I got the same icky feeling when Germany tried a former Nazi recently.

Why should they get away with their crimes? Some of their victims could still have lived if not for these people's horrendous, murderous actions. The perpetrators' age should not matter. This is not a speeding ticket. And they have been hiding and lying in order not to be held accountable for their crimes. I think it is extremely important that for the sake of justice, people like this camp guard get a trial and are locked up.

That's why I'd like to see the deportation order. Is it believed he was a willing participant? Then perhaps this is justified. But many Germans were desperate and brain-washed and feared for their own lives of they did not serve. That doesn't justify murder and torture by any means, but I do think it is important to consider in seeking justice now.

I'm not saying he should for sure get off Scott-free, bit rather that this type of thing is very nuanced and complicated, and in my case, feels like it's just an act to assuage cultural guilt rather than accomplishing anything useful like actually tackling anti-Semitism or racism in any real and meaningful way. Yay, we locked up this Nazi so obviously we can't be Nazis, even though hate crimes are on the rise and there are politicians not even attempting to hide their prejudicial hatred! We're obviously freedom fighters yeahhh.

This is not a simple, black-and-white issue, so it certainly doesn't change my view on ICE.

Based on his name, I strongly doubt he was German - more likely someone from the eastern lands conquered by the Germans who willingly took part in this SS training camp and subsequently became a guard. Not that I really care whether he was secretly really scared or had good intentions.

There are many examples of anti-Nazi "virtue signalling". Trying and locking up a literal perpetrator of atrocities in the Shoah is not one, however. If anything, it is an affront to the victims of his murderous actions not to try him because he's old and weak. These victims could have been old and weak too right now, but they were slaughtered some 75 years ago.

I'm not asking you to change your opinion of ICE on this. It's not that relevant. But I am completely astounded and, quite frankly, disgusted that some people think it is unjust to try and lock up people who took part in one of the biggest crimes that ever happened, just because they managed to successfully escape justice for a long time.

You're ignoring what I'm saying if you think I said it was unjust to lock him up. Also, the point of this thread is about ICE. If you're not going to take the time to read what I'm actually saying, I have no further reason to debate with you. I only did this kind of thing makes me uncomfortable because of many factors and that it may cause more issues than it resolves, and per the OP, it doesn't change my feelings on ICE, which needs reform. I certainly never said he should not face justice.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I'll withold judgement until I see something much more reliable than "White House says" from a "news" organization that peddles "NASA covers up alien encounter" stories. Maybe FOX can tell us how ICE deported Bat-Boy, too?

[pbrower2a]

He was old enough to know better.  Had he been from a place slightly farther to the east he would have been deported to the Soviet Union and executed.

He is about the same age as Irma Grese, a brutal German concentration camp 'overseer' who went so far as to have dogs attack and kill inmates. She was executed at age 23 or so, and I doubt that anyone thought her too young to know that killing was wrong and that she could not face hanging for what she did.

The delicacy of his age? Nazis showed no mercy to people in their 90s if they were Jews.

[KingSweden]

ICE could do with substantial reform, to say the least, but this is exactly the kind of thing they should be doing. Excellent news.

[Brittain33]

"This makes me totally ok with ICE arresting women as they approach police stations to report domestic violence." --no Democrats

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

"This makes me totally ok with ICE arresting women as they approach police stations to report domestic violence." --no Democrats

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

Which party is it that has a nazi as their nominee for a Congressional District in Illinois?

[TML]

Whew...this was definitely unexpected, given how Germany continuously refused to take him back due to his lack of German nationality and lack of evidence to criminally prosecute him.

While I generally do not support what ICE is doing these days, for this case I have to make an exception. As a rabbi who frequently led protests against him would say, this man should be viewed not as a 95-year-old nice old man, but as a 20-year-old killer who has escaped justice for 75 years. I've long wanted this man gone, and I am obviously very happy that this day has finally come.

[DavidB.]

Whew...this was definitely unexpected, given how Germany continuously refused to take him back due to his lack of German nationality and lack of evidence to criminally prosecute him.

Germany has been obstructing justice all the time in these cases. As far as I know, international Waffen-SS volunteers received the German nationality upon entering the "organization" (I'm assuming this is the reason this guy is deported to Germany too), which is why most Dutch SS volunteers could never be prosecuted in the Netherlands: they had German passports and simply went to live right across the border in Germany after the war, where nobody was interested in making sure the perpetrators of the atrocities were tried and politics - particularly in the CDU - was infested by "former" Nazis for a long time.

[KingSweden]

Whew...this was definitely unexpected, given how Germany continuously refused to take him back due to his lack of German nationality and lack of evidence to criminally prosecute him.

While I generally do not support what ICE is doing these days, for this case I have to make an exception. As a rabbi who frequently led protests against him would say, this man should be viewed not as a 95-year-old nice old man, but as a 20-year-old killer who has escaped justice for 75 years. I've long wanted this man gone, and I am obviously very happy that this day has finally come.

I’m glad to hear that justice has been served after Long advocacy on your part

[here2view]

I don't know how we survived before 2003 when ICE was created!

[TML]

Whew...this was definitely unexpected, given how Germany continuously refused to take him back due to his lack of German nationality and lack of evidence to criminally prosecute him.

While I generally do not support what ICE is doing these days, for this case I have to make an exception. As a rabbi who frequently led protests against him would say, this man should be viewed not as a 95-year-old nice old man, but as a 20-year-old killer who has escaped justice for 75 years. I've long wanted this man gone, and I am obviously very happy that this day has finally come.

I’m glad to hear that justice has been served after Long advocacy on your part

I never participated directly in the efforts to remove him; I was merely stating my opinion about him.

In terms of who was actually actively participating in efforts to remove him, you can find that info by searching for news articles over the past 15 years or so.

[Gass3268]

https://twitter.com/FanSince09/status/1031931101739008001

[SWE]

If you arrest Nazis you're automatically an FF. That's why Stalin is held in such high regard today.

[DavidB.]

https://twitter.com/FanSince09/status/1031931101739008001

Oh look, another tasteless post by an American left-wing internet millennial. There is no equivalency between an actual Waffen-SS concentration camp guard and ICE. What is hell wrong with you?

[Santander]

I guess he wasn't extreme enough for the Trump administration.

[afleitch]

https://twitter.com/FanSince09/status/1031931101739008001

Oh look, another tasteless post by an American left-wing internet millennial. There is no equivalency between an actual Waffen-SS concentration camp guard and ICE. What is hell wrong with you?

No there isn't. But pro ICE seem to be milking this, which quite frankly, is both calculated and in very poor taste.