Jesus or Trump? Conservative Christians Face Growing Rift
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  Jesus or Trump? Conservative Christians Face Growing Rift
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Author Topic: Jesus or Trump? Conservative Christians Face Growing Rift  (Read 668 times)
jojoju1998
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« on: August 23, 2023, 09:14:27 AM »

https://www.newsweek.com/conservative-christians-evangelical-donald-trump-rift-1821698

""There are actually people who are not in any recognizable sense Christian but who identify as evangelical, partly because of the way that term has been kind of associated with Donald Trump and with a right-wing political orbit," Carter said."
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Vice President Christian Man
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2023, 12:53:11 PM »

Absolutely disgusting. I think toxic masculinity has been rampant on the right since at least W. Bush but Trump has increased it to the point where Bush-style compassionate conservatism is being considered to be commie sounding.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2023, 01:20:30 PM »

It's not uncommon for self-described Christians to not know scripture. Religion is used a political weapon and as a way to claim superiority by right-wingers. When it comes to grace and charity, they do not grasp these concepts and see them as liberal. Trump is a false prophet and he's definitely led his supporters over the edge.
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DaleCooper
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2023, 01:41:53 PM »

Trump didn't start this and if you think he's entirely to blame for this phenomenon then you've missed the fact that Christian America has been almost entirely apostate for decades now. They know nothing about even some of the most universally recognizable stories from the Bible, and it's entirely a cultural movement. That's all it is to them and that's all it's been for many years. The current culture war accelerated it, but this has been a long time coming.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2023, 04:12:46 PM »

If one is to identify oneself as a Christin one had better know the Bible. Maybe not the dull passages, but at least the ones that define morality, wisdom, and Christianity itself.

Note well that there are evangelical Christians (the Sojourners) who take the Bible seriously and reject Donald Trump for his pervasive wickedness.

Shouldn't it be obvious: if it is evil, then it is not Christian.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2023, 04:19:01 PM »

They threw out a Sunday School Teacher for a divorced actor, as usual, the centrists are too late to the game.
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Born to Slay. Forced to Work.
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2023, 04:25:49 PM »

If one is to identify oneself as a Christin one had better know the Bible. Maybe not the dull passages, but at least the ones that define morality, wisdom, and Christianity itself.

Note well that there are evangelical Christians (the Sojourners) who take the Bible seriously and reject Donald Trump for his pervasive wickedness.

Shouldn't it be obvious: if it is evil, then it is not Christian.

“Christianity is when you force births and own the libs”
-republicans, unironically
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It’s so Joever
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2023, 06:27:56 PM »

Absolutely disgusting. I think toxic masculinity has been rampant on the right since at least W. Bush but Trump has increased it to the point where Bush-style compassionate conservatism is being considered to be commie sounding.
I’m glad someone here is able to see the link between toxic masculinity and Trumpism (and honestly extremism of any type)
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2023, 07:56:46 PM »

Compassionate Conserv believes in not hoarding money, I don't care what they call themselves they are Christians but born again no way Secular is born again I believe I am a born again Christian because being a Christian as Catholic or Lutheran or Salvation believe in not hoarding wealth Catholic charities and Boy and Girl Scouts assistance Trump maybe a Christian but not born Again
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T'Chenka
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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2023, 09:16:21 PM »


"Compassionate conservative, that's like having a gun rack on a Volvo."
- Robin Williams
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longtimelurker
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2023, 09:49:33 PM »

Trump didn't start this and if you think he's entirely to blame for this phenomenon then you've missed the fact that Christian America has been almost entirely apostate for decades now. They know nothing about even some of the most universally recognizable stories from the Bible, and it's entirely a cultural movement. That's all it is to them and that's all it's been for many years. The current culture war accelerated it, but this has been a long time coming.

The same trajectory has been noted for Judaism and the LDS Church. 

Back in the 1980's, an article was published in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion that examined the beliefs of LDS church members regarding evolution, going back decades (can't remember whether the polls started in the 30's or 50's).  First of all, LDS, whatever else you may think it teaches, has not had a problem with an old geological earth since ~1900 and with evolution - even human evolution - since the 1960's.  But, since then, the percent of LDS members who 1) disapproved of these concepts and 2) thought that their church disapproved of these concepts, had increased.  The authors correlated that with other political views of LDS church members which had grown more conservative in the previous 20 years.  The authors concluded that numerous LDS members were adopting more conservative political positions to align themselves with the evangelical/fundamentalist Protestant tide, even to the point of (unknowingly) contradicting their own church.*

Starting in about 1980 (note year), I was perceiving that numerous fellow Jews, across the religious spectrum, were not just leaving the Democratic Party to vote GOP because of opposition to Carter's peace treaty with Begin and Sadat, but were also adopting all sorts of anti-environmentalist, racist, anti-science positions that aligned with evangelical/fundamentalist Protestants, even if they contradicted Jewish teaching.  Here I was this kosher Conservative Jew, who walked miles to synagogue on Yom Kippur, and I was being called a commie by totally irreligious Jews who literally knew not a word of Hebrew, and who laughed at things like the aforementioned dietary laws or Yom Kippur observances.  Because they supported Reagan and I did not.  Meanwhile, my own rabbi, who once gave the most blistering anti-Goldwater sermon I had ever heard, had started preaching like "Reverend Falwell" (my father's words - I mean, he only co-founded the congregation).

Cut to the present, and I'm reading all sorts of examples about Chassidic rabbis breaking all sorts of Talmudic animal treatment laws, because animal rights is for liberals.

*In the years since, I have read that numerous people have left the LDS and RCC for fundamentalist Protestant churches when, to their horror, they find out that the church that they have grown up in was not a fundamentalist one. 

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jojoju1998
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2023, 09:51:49 PM »

Trump didn't start this and if you think he's entirely to blame for this phenomenon then you've missed the fact that Christian America has been almost entirely apostate for decades now. They know nothing about even some of the most universally recognizable stories from the Bible, and it's entirely a cultural movement. That's all it is to them and that's all it's been for many years. The current culture war accelerated it, but this has been a long time coming.

The same trajectory has been noted for Judaism and the LDS Church. 

Back in the 1980's, an article was published in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion that examined the beliefs of LDS church members regarding evolution, going back decades (can't remember whether the polls started in the 30's or 50's).  First of all, LDS, whatever else you may think it teaches, has not had a problem with an old geological earth since ~1900 and with evolution - even human evolution - since the 1960's.  But, since then, the percent of LDS members who 1) disapproved of these concepts and 2) thought that their church disapproved of these concepts, had increased.  The authors correlated that with other political views of LDS church members which had grown more conservative in the previous 20 years.  The authors concluded that numerous LDS members were adopting more conservative political positions to align themselves with the evangelical/fundamentalist Protestant tide, even to the point of (unknowingly) contradicting their own church.*

Starting in about 1980 (note year), I was perceiving that numerous fellow Jews, across the religious spectrum, were not just leaving the Democratic Party to vote GOP because of opposition to Carter's peace treaty with Begin and Sadat, but were also adopting all sorts of anti-environmentalist, racist, anti-science positions that aligned with evangelical/fundamentalist Protestants, even if they contradicted Jewish teaching.  Here I was this kosher Conservative Jew, who walked miles to synagogue on Yom Kippur, and I was being called a commie by totally irreligious Jews who literally knew not a word of Hebrew, and who laughed at things like the aforementioned dietary laws or Yom Kippur observances.  Because they supported Reagan and I did not.  Meanwhile, my own rabbi, who once gave the most blistering anti-Goldwater sermon I had ever heard, had started preaching like "Reverend Falwell" (my father's words - I mean, he only co-founded the congregation).

Cut to the present, and I'm reading all sorts of examples about Chassidic rabbis breaking all sorts of Talmudic animal treatment laws, because animal rights is for liberals.

*In the years since, I have read that numerous people have left the LDS and RCC for fundamentalist Protestant churches when, to their horror, they find out that the church that they have grown up in was not a fundamentalist one. 



Alot of the Fundamentalist Evangelicals are converting to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox because of the supposed " conservativism " that these churches have, and a growing obsession with " classical " things.



Then they freak out when Pope Francis talks about caring about the environment....
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JA
Jacobin American
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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2023, 10:23:43 PM »

This wouldn’t have happened if Christian religious leaders didn’t succumb to the temptation of worldly power by enmeshing themselves with secular politics. They brought this and the rise of “Nones” on themselves.
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Progressive Pessimist
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2023, 06:35:35 PM »

I almost appreciate the ones putting Trump before Jesus, at least they are being more candid and consistent.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2023, 07:13:23 PM »
« Edited: August 24, 2023, 07:18:11 PM by Mr.Barkari Sellers »


"Compassionate conservative, that's like having a gun rack on a Volvo."
- Robin Williams

George Washington was a slave owner but not a Dixiecrat along with Jefferson held the most slaves than any other Founding fathers with Ben Franklin and John Adams and James Madison he said he was a Whig not a Tory which in British terms is still the Monarchy because they are for climate change which means Compassionate Conserv close to Christ but hoarding wealth is a sin, the Monarchy hoards Wealth and the Pope but they give back to Girl and Boy Scouts and Catholic charities, Prince William and King Charles are still Whigs while the Tory party is in British Parliament

Nixon. And later Bush W since they were pro immigration reform coined the phrase Compassionate Conserv and George Washington, Lincoln, Grant and Teddy Roosevelt appointed Justices like Eisenhower that were on the left side of the CRT and DIXIECRATS until WO Douglas were on the right side due to Apartheid

Teddy Roosevelt created the owl party but it didn't last because the R party after Taft who. Instituted the income tax were anti Income tax and Wilson and FDR became the Pro tax Party


Lincoln freed us because he was a compassionate Conserv he said that the Dixictrat Jefferson party were there Apartheid party that's why the colors on Atlas are reversed it was changed during WWII when Russia and China became Red, that stands for Traditional keep the status quo
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Blue3
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2023, 08:37:58 PM »

I almost appreciate the ones putting Trump before Jesus, at least they are being more candid and consistent.

True.

But still, alarming that they are now attacking Jesus in favor of Trump.
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