Republicans were for the working class before they were against it.

[136or142]

For those who don't remember.  The subject line is from John Kerry who said "I actually voted against the war before I voted for it."

https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1027944285033906182

This seems to have come up again with Ben Shapiro asking (demanding?) that Ocasio Cortez debate him and when some people replied "Why would Ocasio Cortez debate a person who isn't running against her?" there was a reply from conservatives (on twitter anyway) along the lines of "How dare a bartender not debate a Harvard educated lawyer"

However, I had seen the reference to Ocasio Cortez as 'a bartender' from one or two conservatives before that.  At the time I thought it was just a couple individual Republicans who weren't up to date that the Republican Party is supposed to now be the party of 'non elites' but this attempt to belittle must either come directly from the Republican Party or one of its mouthpieces as it clearly is quite widespread.

[IceSpear]

Republicans don't mind getting talked down to by elitist white males. It only bothers them if it's from a woman and/or a minority.

[136or142]

This was the most recent tweet that seemed to be the reason for some of the replies

https://twitter.com/bethanyshondark/status/1027906922274533379

[Beet]

It's not that they're "against the working class." There's nothing wrong with being a waitress and educator. It's just that you probably won't beat a professional political commentator who wrote his first book on politics 14 years ago. Republicans are pointing out, rightly, that the odds would be against Cortez in this match, and this may be one reason why she's shirking it.

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's not that they're "against the working class." There's nothing wrong with being a waitress and educator. It's just that you probably won't beat a professional political commentator who wrote his first book on politics 14 years ago. Republicans are pointing out, rightly, that the odds would be against Cortez in this match, and this may be one reason why she's shirking it.

Yah Shapiro would easily defeat Cortez in a Debate.

Republicans don't mind getting talked down to by elitist white males. It only bothers them if it's from a woman and/or a minority.

Nope Most Republicans are bothered by Bernie Sanders's politics  as well

[136or142]

It's not that they're "against the working class." There's nothing wrong with being a waitress and educator. It's just that you probably won't beat a professional political commentator who wrote his first book on politics 14 years ago. Republicans are pointing out, rightly, that the odds would be against Cortez in this match, and this may be one reason why she's shirking it.

Yah Shapiro would easily defeat Cortez in a Debate.

Republicans don't mind getting talked down to by elitist white males. It only bothers them if it's from a woman and/or a minority.

Nope Most Republicans are bothered by Bernie Sanders's politics  as well

Shapiro is an arrogant goof ball who seems to think that his law degree makes him an expert in everything.  I've heard him debate economics and he's painful to listen to.

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's not that they're "against the working class." There's nothing wrong with being a waitress and educator. It's just that you probably won't beat a professional political commentator who wrote his first book on politics 14 years ago. Republicans are pointing out, rightly, that the odds would be against Cortez in this match, and this may be one reason why she's shirking it.

Yah Shapiro would easily defeat Cortez in a Debate.

Republicans don't mind getting talked down to by elitist white males. It only bothers them if it's from a woman and/or a minority.

Nope Most Republicans are bothered by Bernie Sanders's politics  as well

Shapiro is an arrogant goof ball who seems to think that his law degree makes him an expert in everything.  I've heard him debate economics and he's painful to listen to.

At least he doesnt say things like this: "Unemployment is low because people are working 2 jobs"

[For Trump, everything. For immigrants, the law]

This was the most recent tweet that seemed to be the reason for some of the replies

https://twitter.com/bethanyshondark/status/1027906922274533379

Can you imagine the cries of "elitist!!!!!11!!!" from the right if the party were flipped?

[136or142]

It's not that they're "against the working class." There's nothing wrong with being a waitress and educator. It's just that you probably won't beat a professional political commentator who wrote his first book on politics 14 years ago. Republicans are pointing out, rightly, that the odds would be against Cortez in this match, and this may be one reason why she's shirking it.

Yah Shapiro would easily defeat Cortez in a Debate.

Republicans don't mind getting talked down to by elitist white males. It only bothers them if it's from a woman and/or a minority.

Nope Most Republicans are bothered by Bernie Sanders's politics  as well

Shapiro is an arrogant goof ball who seems to think that his law degree makes him an expert in everything.  I've heard him debate economics and he's painful to listen to.

At least he doesnt say things like this: "Unemployment is low because people are working 2 jobs"

Nope, but he did falsely claim in his debate with Cenk Uyger that without wealthy people there would be no investments in the economy.

He also was against deficit spending under Obama but supports the deficit ballooning tax cuts of Trump/Ryan/McConnell.

His argument in favor of tax cuts also overlooked the income vs substitution effects.

Had Shapiro been debating a real economist in that debate as opposed to the even more hopeless Cenk Uyger, Shapiro would have been exposed as the arrogant know nothing he really is.  (Not that the Shapiro groupies would have realized it.)

[OSR stands with Israel]

It's not that they're "against the working class." There's nothing wrong with being a waitress and educator. It's just that you probably won't beat a professional political commentator who wrote his first book on politics 14 years ago. Republicans are pointing out, rightly, that the odds would be against Cortez in this match, and this may be one reason why she's shirking it.

Yah Shapiro would easily defeat Cortez in a Debate.

Republicans don't mind getting talked down to by elitist white males. It only bothers them if it's from a woman and/or a minority.

Nope Most Republicans are bothered by Bernie Sanders's politics  as well

Shapiro is an arrogant goof ball who seems to think that his law degree makes him an expert in everything.  I've heard him debate economics and he's painful to listen to.

At least he doesnt say things like this: "Unemployment is low because people are working 2 jobs"

Nope, but he did falsely claim in his debate with Cenk Uyger that without wealthy people there would be no investments in the economy.

He also was against deficit spending under Obama but supports the deficit ballooning tax cuts of Trump/Ryan/McConnell.

His argument in favor of tax cuts also overlooked the income vs substitution effects.

Had Shapiro been debating a real economist in that debate as opposed to the even more hopeless Cenk Uyger, Shapiro would have been exposed as the arrogant know nothing he really is.  (Not that the Shapiro groupies would have realized it.)

Without wealthy people, the amount of investment in the economy would go down dramatically.


Nope he says it many times on his show that I remember when the Republicans used to support cutting spending.


His economic ideas are not that different from many economists who are from the Chicago School of Economics.

[136or142]

It's not that they're "against the working class." There's nothing wrong with being a waitress and educator. It's just that you probably won't beat a professional political commentator who wrote his first book on politics 14 years ago. Republicans are pointing out, rightly, that the odds would be against Cortez in this match, and this may be one reason why she's shirking it.

Yah Shapiro would easily defeat Cortez in a Debate.

Republicans don't mind getting talked down to by elitist white males. It only bothers them if it's from a woman and/or a minority.

Nope Most Republicans are bothered by Bernie Sanders's politics  as well

Shapiro is an arrogant goof ball who seems to think that his law degree makes him an expert in everything.  I've heard him debate economics and he's painful to listen to.

At least he doesnt say things like this: "Unemployment is low because people are working 2 jobs"

Nope, but he did falsely claim in his debate with Cenk Uyger that without wealthy people there would be no investments in the economy.

He also was against deficit spending under Obama but supports the deficit ballooning tax cuts of Trump/Ryan/McConnell.

His argument in favor of tax cuts also overlooked the income vs substitution effects.

Had Shapiro been debating a real economist in that debate as opposed to the even more hopeless Cenk Uyger, Shapiro would have been exposed as the arrogant know nothing he really is.  (Not that the Shapiro groupies would have realized it.)

Without wealthy people, the amount of investment in the economy would go down dramatically.


Nope he says it many times on his show that I remember when the Republicans used to support cutting spending.


His economic ideas come from Milton Friedman who won a Nobel Prize in Economics

1.No it wouldn't.  Investment comes from either existing corporations that don't require wealthy people to head them up or from people starting up new businesses. Most people starting new businesses aren't wealthy.  The only exception are expansions from wealthy people who own unincorporated businesses and that could be dealt with by turning them into corporate entities.  An economy does not need wealthy people either to invest or to provide investment.  I have no problem with wealthy people personally, but that was not the claim in his debate with Uyger.

2.Shapiro said that he supported the Trump/Paul/McConnell tax cuts even though there were no spending cuts. A lot of Republicans say they are against deficits when a Democrat is President.

3.As I showed with his lack of understanding of the importance of the income vs substitution effects, Shapiro may claim to have been influenced by Friedman, but he clearly doesn't really understand the concepts Freidman was advancing, just the dumbed down Cole Notes version.

[OSR stands with Israel]

- Without Venture Capital, Silicon Valley wouldn't be where it is today

- Yes for Economic Reasons not Fiscal ones . He said it himself

- Show me an example where he doesnt understand the Income vs Substitution Affect

[136or142]

- Without Venture Capital, Silicon Valley wouldn't be where it is today

- Yes for Economic Reasons not Fiscal ones . He said it himself

- Show me an example where he doesnt understand the Income vs Substitution Affect

Venture capital is a type of investor just as banks are.  No doubt it's easier for venture capitalists to raise money from a handful of wealthy investors but I don't see any inherent reason why venture capitalists could not exist with a different business model that embraced capital from lots of small investors, just as credit unions and many local banks do.  The difference with venture capitalists vs banks is they take bigger risks, but I don't see any reason why a lot of younger smaller investors wouldn't be interested in putting their money into venture capital firms.  Of course, there are also many larger investment banks that don't necessarily base their business model on financing from wealthy people.

In his recent interview with Bill Maher he said that he would have voted for Trump over Kamala Harris because he 'supports the tax cuts.'  (I shut off the program at the 3 minute mark, so I don't know if he qualified his comment later, but he didn't seem like he wanted to.)

In his debate with Uyger he made no mention of the income vs substitution effects, just the simplistic 'tax cuts automatically lead to economic growth' sloganeering.  If he actually understand the debate is a lot more complicated than that, it's:
1.Not my fault for not knowing but for believing that what he said in a debate reflected his full and actual views
2.Dishonest for him to knowingly misrepresent the economic concept.

At best, I can sympathize that his debate partner, Uyger, was even more pathetic in understanding economics than he was and was in no place to actually challenge Shapiro and force Shapiro to further explain himself.

[IceSpear]

It's not that they're "against the working class." There's nothing wrong with being a waitress and educator. It's just that you probably won't beat a professional political commentator who wrote his first book on politics 14 years ago. Republicans are pointing out, rightly, that the odds would be against Cortez in this match, and this may be one reason why she's shirking it.

Yah Shapiro would easily defeat Cortez in a Debate.

Republicans don't mind getting talked down to by elitist white males. It only bothers them if it's from a woman and/or a minority.

Nope Most Republicans are bothered by Bernie Sanders's politics  as well

When did I say they weren't against Bernie's politics? You missed the point.

[IceSpear]

It's not that they're "against the working class." There's nothing wrong with being a waitress and educator. It's just that you probably won't beat a professional political commentator who wrote his first book on politics 14 years ago. Republicans are pointing out, rightly, that the odds would be against Cortez in this match, and this may be one reason why she's shirking it.

Such hypocrisy. Imagine the reaction of conservatives, FOX News, Republican pundits, etc. if Hillary Clinton challenged some stupid uneducated Racist WV Hick who hated her to a debate. He doesn't show up, then leftists on Twitter type: "I'm shocked a coal miner from Logan, WV doesn't want to debate a Yale law graduate."

[#gravelgang #lessiglad]

Cool. How about Greenwald challenges Paul Ryan to a debate and then leftists can crow about how of course the driver of the Oscar Meyer weinermobile doesn't want to debate a Harvard Law grad

[Virginiá]

Yah Shapiro would easily defeat Cortez in a Debate.

I can agree with that, although I guess to be fair, I haven't seen Cortez debating. I just know that I've listened to Shapiro a number of times, and he is often wickedly sharp. Not saying I agree with him all that often, but he can absolutely hold his own more so than the average person.

That being said, she doesn't have to debate him and there shouldn't even be any expectation of it either. Just because he wants to do it doesn't mean diddly. People shouldn't be acting like he deserves it or something.

[Beet]

It's not that they're "against the working class." There's nothing wrong with being a waitress and educator. It's just that you probably won't beat a professional political commentator who wrote his first book on politics 14 years ago. Republicans are pointing out, rightly, that the odds would be against Cortez in this match, and this may be one reason why she's shirking it.

Such hypocrisy. Imagine the reaction of conservatives, FOX News, Republican pundits, etc. if Hillary Clinton challenged some stupid uneducated Racist WV Hick who hated her to a debate. He doesn't show up, then leftists on Twitter type: "I'm shocked a coal miner from Logan, WV doesn't want to debate a Yale law graduate."

Ha ha, of course that's the example you'd use. I suppose if the coal miner were elected to Congress and was getting national attention, it'd be a better comparison. But I admit that coal miners get disproportionate attention and legitimacy. That's what happens when you win.

[Devout Centrist]

It's not that they're "against the working class." There's nothing wrong with being a waitress and educator. It's just that you probably won't beat a professional political commentator who wrote his first book on politics 14 years ago. Republicans are pointing out, rightly, that the odds would be against Cortez in this match, and this may be one reason why she's shirking it.

Political debates in the public sphere function much differently than a typical college or formal debate. There is far less focus on substance and argumentation when it comes to modern political debates.

[136or142]

Cenk Uygur offered $10,000 for charity if Ted Cruz debated him.  

[#gravelgang #lessiglad]

Cenk Uygur offered $10,000 for charity if Ted Cruz debated him.  

I do not care for Ted Cruz, but he does seem to have a sense of humor.

[Progressive Pessimist]

I'm not an Ocasio-Cortez worshiper (I like her fine, though her near-celebrity status is a bit mystifying to me) but she is absolutely right in not wanting to debate Shapiro. The guy is a hack, and she would be wasting her time.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I'm not an Ocasio-Cortez worshiper (I like her fine, though her near-celebrity status is a bit mystifying to me) but she is absolutely right in not wanting to debate Shapiro. The guy is a hack, and she would be wasting her time.

Cenk Uygur  is far more of a hack than Ben Shapiro is.

[Sestak]

I'm not an Ocasio-Cortez worshiper (I like her fine, though her near-celebrity status is a bit mystifying to me) but she is absolutely right in not wanting to debate Shapiro. The guy is a hack, and she would be wasting her time.

Cenk Uygur  is far more of a hack than Ben Shapiro is.

False. infinity = infinity

[Panda Express]

Cenk Uygur offered $10,000 for charity if Ted Cruz debated him.  

I do not care for Ted Cruz, but he does seem to have a sense of humor.

No, his 19 year old intern who handles his Twitter page does.