Atlanta Charter School drops Pledge of Allegiance from schedule
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 25, 2025, 03:08:16 AM
News: Election Calculator 3.0 with county/house maps is now live. For more info, click here

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Abolish ICE, Tokugawa Sexgod Ieyasu, Utilitarian Governance)
  Atlanta Charter School drops Pledge of Allegiance from schedule
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3]
Author Topic: Atlanta Charter School drops Pledge of Allegiance from schedule  (Read 2810 times)
Take your vitamins and say your prayers, Brother!
Fuzzy Bear
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,759
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #50 on: August 18, 2018, 07:29:56 AM »

Good. We had to in my high school. We had a teacher who'd shame kids into doing it.

Well I'm certainly not for that.

https://www.oyez.org/cases/1940-1955/319us624

West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette ruled on that in 1943.  I certainly believe that in public schools, where attendance is compulsory, there should be no compulsion or shaming about this ritual.

That doesn't mean, however, that it should be eliminated, for reasons previously discussed.

As the nation becomes more diverse, ie as people have less and less in common ethnically, culturally, and politically, unity building exercises like the pledge become even more important. It's disappointing but not surprising to see so many on the left (and even the "right") oppose such things. They oppose nationalism in any form, even race blind civic nationalism based on shared ideas. They want no nationalism, no nation, no communities except communities built around racial resentment. Of course I can see the responses coming in now "lol it's just the pledge don't be so dramatic" but it's just the pledge now, it will be the founding fathers tomorrow, the flag the next day. How in the world will this country be governed in the future if there are no shared values except "we need to let in more immigrants who want more money"? This is another step towards the collapse of the whole country, maybe the left will like what comes after, maybe they won't. They think it's worth the risk apparently.

The highlighted statement is an extreme one, but it's the extreme question that is begged by events today, and by people that certainly seem to hate America but wish to avoid the "Anti-American" tag, lest they, and their candidates, be considered unfit for public office.  Their relationship is like a marriage, the basis for which has eroded to where it's simply a matter of "it's cheaper to keep her" vs paying child support, or "I'm biding my time until my boyfriend gets divorced, and then I'm dumping him and taking the kids, at which time the kids will be told that their paternal relatives are all part of a collection of steaming excrement in paper bags (just like Andrew Jackson and George Washington to some), to be replaced by "better" paternal relatives (i. e. their stepparent's family). 

Assuming the absence of domestic violence, physical/sexual abuse, or illegal activities in the home, in these cases, the BEST (not the perfect, but the best) solution is USUALLY (not always, but usually) to try to work things out.  That means doing certain things consciously (affirming the things about your spouse you appreciate, focusing on positives, overlooking negatives that are not as important as they seem when one is in "negative mode"). 

Lots of people, in evaluating their marriages, can choose what aspect to look at.  There are many people that can look at their partner from the left and see someone that is not really attractive (they "settled" for less than their dreamboat), has issues that are annoying (e. g. a bit messy, or a neat freak), may want different things (e. g. saving for future vs. expending money for a child to go to a private/religious school NOW), may have different interests (e. g. Political shows and drama vs. romantic comedies and the Property Brothers), and may even have some different ideas on substantial things that aren't theoretical (e. g. child rearing principles, importance of outside activities, value of exposure to extended family members).  But if they look at their partner from the right, they will see other things; they will see a loyal and faithful spouse, a spouse that is hardworking and tries in all circumstances to do the right thing and the best thing, a spouse that has, indeed, put up with their hangups and frailties and things that they know drive the other one nuts.  And they'll see someone who loves them, even if their marriage isn't everything out of a romance novel, and see the value of settledness vs. being ever searching and never finding.  Viewpoints are a choice, and one can look at their spouse from different viewpoints and see different things.

And it's that same thing about America.  If you look at America from the left, you can see a nation founded on a compromise that tolerated slavery, a nation that did not recognize its blacks as fully human until 1865 (3/5ths of a man), a nation that has engaged in imperialism, a nation which has not always done right by its indigenous peoples, and which has had its issues with fully accepting people who have come to America as "different" (racially, religiously, ethnically).  If you look at America from the right, you can see a nation that has been more introspective than the vast majority or nations, has earnestly attempted to come to grip with these issues that represent a disconnect between it's ideals and its practices, has earnestly attempted to guarantee the individual liberties set forth in the Bill of Rights, and has, more than any other nation, successfully implemented the Rule of Law.  One can see a nation which has fully assimilated the most diverse wave of immigration in centuries, and whose laws (if not always actual practice) do more to eliminate the idea of class and caste more than anyone else.  It is a nation that does not subject its citizens to religious tests, and does not subject its citizens to religious tribunals because politicians made deals with groups to allow religious courts to hold sway (e.g. Sharia Law in Britain). 

The truth about most "pledge-haters" is the truth about many married folks; they hate their spouses and long for a divorce.  And many work actively at keeping those feelings active, which is certainly not good for their families, and, arguably, not good for them.  What will become of America when a large plurality of Americans actively resent America and view America, itself, as "deplorable"?  We're already on that road.  I'm not one who has normally been comfortable with a load of flag-waving and faux patriotic drivel, but I have always believed that our Pledge and our national heroes served useful purposes in keeping a nation as diverse as ours together.  When a nation's diversity extends to accomodating equal portions of those who love it, those who hate it, and those who are ambivilent toward it, it's hard to imaging how going forward will be smooth.
Logged
Ban my account ffs!
snowguy716
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,630
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2018, 01:58:54 PM »

Please stop spewing  your America religion, fuzzy.  You have set America as your idol and you worship it with zeal.
Logged
Take your vitamins and say your prayers, Brother!
Fuzzy Bear
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,759
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2018, 02:41:02 PM »

Please stop spewing  your America religion, fuzzy.  You have set America as your idol and you worship it with zeal.

You can ask nicely, and you did, but the answer is "No".

"America" is not my "religion".  The difference between you and I, apparently, is that you appear to think that people will just keep the Republic without any effort. 

I would rephrase Mortimer's question to:  How in the world will this country be governed in the future if there are no shared values except the current leftist concept of "tolerance"?  What will motivate people to pull together in times of national emergency?  Indeed, will an "emergency in NYC or San Francisco be viewed as a "blessing" in Enid, Oklahoma or Cheyenne, WY?  This is not exactly a new problem; unity amongst the Colonies was not an assured thing during the Revolution, and we've had one Civil War. 

For most of my life, I have not been big on patriotic displays, but I have always realized that Americans don't have a common history.  Something other than blood and soil has to hold us together as a nation.  The Pledge is a custom that reinforces a proper nationalism for a nation such as ours.  That this is too much for so many truly makes me question whether or not these folks wish for America, the nation to succeed.  Are we THAT given over to ideological movements and tribalism that we don't give a crap about the American Nation?  I truly think that a lot of people haven't really thought this issue through all the way.
Logged
C r a b c a k e
CrabCake
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,145
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2018, 09:49:28 PM »

People on the right have a very low opinion of the previous nations and flags they love so much, if they believe they will lose all their power if there wasn't a mandatory quasi-pagan ceremony of worship everyday.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.023 seconds with 7 queries.