Argentina's Senate votes today a bill on decriminalizing abortion

[Velasco]

Today the Senate of Argentina votes a bill that would decriminalize abortion. Media highlights this vote is historic and a key moment for women's rights in Latin America. Also, abortion will be discussed at a Supreme Court hearing in Brazil.

http://time.com/5358823/argentina-abortion-vote-latin-america/

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There are two opposite camps. On the one hand, Argentina is the country were Pope Francis was born and the Catholic Church has a strong influence in politics. The church hierarchy deems abortion is a crime and there are pro-life campaigners advocating adoption as an alternative to voluntary termination of pregnancy. On the other hand, there is an active movement supporting women's rights. There have been huge public demonstrations supporting abortion rights and against gender based violence ("Ni Una Menos"). Abortion rights campaigners claim that the choice is not between abortion and adoption, rather it's a choice between safe and unsafe abortions. Official figures say 500,000 illegal and clandestine abortions are performed each year and suggest that at least 50,000 women are hospitalized each year after botched abortions. Amnesty International says that Argentinian senators have a chance to say goodbye to unsafe abortion:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/08/argentina-new-york-times-advert-calls-on-senate-to-decriminalize-abortion/

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The outcome is uncertain and it seems that is more likely that the bill is rejected in Senate. There are 72 members of which 31 are pledging to vote in favour, 37 against (Carlos Menem among them), 2 undecided and 1 abstention and 1 absentee. However, activists think that losing a battle is not losing the war:

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[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

Be bold Argentina, you can do it
You did in 2010 with gay marriage, now give women their right to choose

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

It all indicates that the final numbers in the Senate will be pretty much as expected,but we'll likely have to wait for another hour for the debate and voting to end

There's an extremely high chance that bill won't pass

On other news, Cristina's last vice-president, Amado Boudou was sentenced this Monday to 5 years and 10 months of effective prison and barred for life from holdinb public office and given a US$3250 fine for bribery and conducting business incompatible with public office in a case where Boudou used shell companies and secret middlemen to gain control of Ciccone Calcografica, a company that was given contracts to print Argentine currency as well as funds for Cristina's re-election campaign.
Boudou denied any wrongdoing in court and dismissed the accusations as politically motivated. Five other people were sentenced Tuesday and the sentences can be appealed.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

The voting took place: 38 Against - 31 For

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Well, not like it’s that unexpected. There’s always next year, and Montevideo.

[America Needs R'hllor]

The church won this time. In the next time, or in the time after next time, or in the time after that one etc, they'll lose.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Ugh.

[Hash]

La Nación has a page allowing you to see how senators voted: https://www.lanacion.com.ar/2160090-debate-por-el-aborto-segui-el-conteo-de-votos-en-tiempo-real

Broken down by 'political orientation' (not by official bloc because there are like a thousand of them), both of the two main groups in the Senate - the governing Cambiemos coalition and Justicialismo (non-Kirchernista Peronists) - were deeply divided over the subject.

Cambiemos (governing coalition): 17 - 8
Justicialista: 11 - 12 - 1 abst.
Kirchnerismo: 1 - 8
Others: 9 - 3 - 1 abst. - 1 absent

My knowledge of Argentine politics is shamefully very limited, but among the list of senators, but opponents included former president and lifetime crook Carlos Menem, former VP Julio Cobos, former education minister and astoundingly stupid person Esteban Bullrich ('Anne Frank's dreams were truncated, largely by a leadership that was not able to unite and bring peace to a world that promoted intolerance'), Salta senator Rodolfo Urtubey (who in the debate talked about cases of 'non-violent rape') and Adolfo Rodríguez Saá. Supporters included Cristina Kirchner, Cambiemos inter-bloc caucus leader Luis Naidenoff and left-wing filmmaker Pino Solanas.

The 'plan B' for now, which appears more likely to pass, is the decriminalization of abortion up to 12 weeks and in cases of rape through the government's reform to the penal code, which will come up for debate in Congress later this month.

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

[Lexii, harbinger of chaos and sexual anarchy]

And here's the map for the Diputados' (House of Representatives) vote that was held on June 14

[Antonio the Sixth]

Is the North-South divide a common phenomenon in Argentine politics? I thought it was more Buenos Aires and proximity vs everywhere else.

[DC Al Fine]

Is the North-South divide a common phenomenon in Argentine politics? I thought it was more Buenos Aires and proximity vs everywhere else.

Seconded. This is very interesting.

[Velasco]

Is the North-South divide a common phenomenon in Argentine politics? I thought it was more Buenos Aires and proximity vs everywhere else.

Seconded. This is very interesting.

Northern provinces are poorer and socially conservative: the weight of Catholic Church there is considerable. Many people from Salta, Tucumán, Jujuy, Catamarca, La Rioja, San Juan or Santiago del Estero was brought to Buenos Aires in buses, in order to demonstrate against abortion (abortion rights campaigners wear green scarves, while the colour of "pro-life" campaigners is pale blue). They were mobilized by the Church and by evalngelical groups. "Pro-life" demonstrations were like big open-air ,masses with community prayers and distribution of wooden crosses, virgins and rosaries. Either by personal conviction or by pressure, northern legislators voted massively against the bill. Some of them referred to an alleged "northern idiosyncrasy" that is in opposition with the liberalism of Buenos Aires. They claimed the bill was an affair of BsAs people and that poor women don't abort (statistical evidence says otherwise). At this point it's worth noting thatseats in the Chamber of Deputies are distributed more or less proportionally between the provinces, while in Senate all provinces elect three members. The population is concentrated in Buenos Aires and the central provinces; the provinces located in the north and the south are less populated. Some polls released in previous days said a majority of voters in northern provinces is against abortion and there are elections scheduled next year. I think polls nationwide say that public opinion is highly divided with a slight majority in favour of legal abortion, which has a great support among young people.

As far as I know, Mauricio Macri declared himself "pro-life" but enabled the discussion of the bill and encouraged free vote of conscience. Three top women in the ruling alliance are in the pro-life camp: Vice-President Gabriela Michetti, BsAs Governor María Eugenia Vidal and Elisa Carrió. Cristina Fernández de Kirchner switched side and voted in favour of the bill, claiming that "the girls" convinced her. "The girls" are young women wearing green scarves and demonstrating for their freedom of choice and reproductive rights. Despite the Senate vote is a setback, this is not the end. The bill will be submitted again next year and the following. The debate is still open and there is people claiming the "cultural battle" is already won.

Current legislation allows abortion in cases of rape and risk to mother's life. The law was passed in 1921 and it was an advanced legislation at the time. In order to draw comparisons, Argentina's Ministry of Health estimates between 370,000 and 520,000 clandestine abortions per year. In Spain less than 100,000 (93,131 in 2016) legal abortions are performed every year. The population of Argentina is 43.8 million and the population of Spain is 45.8 million.

[Dr. MB]

Staying neutral as I always do on stuff like this, but interesting, figured they would legalize it. Admittedly I don't know a whole lot about Argentinian politics.

[alancia]

That was a nice night. Knew from the beginning it would pass in the Chamber of Deputies but not in the Senate. I love the North now.