The Crusader (Public Service Announcement)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

"It's just a game" applies just as easily to whatever plot as it does to those who would be affected by it. I think I speak for most users when I say that any such plot would be disregarded by most of us. It is just a game, and the foundation is set by the people who play, not any backroom schemes or the twisting of the Constitution. I hope you apologize for the not-so-naked comment made.

I am not going to apologize for expressing deep concerns as each seemingly detached, low information lefty who comes out of the wood work to seemingly stand in solidarity with the conspirators, down play the significance of the actions they did, or parrots their talking points intentionally, or unintentionally.

I'm a former President, and all I did was ask about what happened since it seems quite egregious. I'm sorry I almost died, otherwise I could be a high information lefty who comes out of the woodwork. Regardless, your insinuations were disrespectful and ill-informed. I'm happy to be back, but I'm not stoked on your attempts to score cheap political points with no basis in reality.

I am not scoring points, I am trying to figure out how a group of people talked themselves into nearly pulling off the first stolen election in game in 17 years, and seeing the slippery slope against a back drop of 1/6, there is reason to be concerned about next timed.

I don't wish ill health on anyone, but what I do expect is that for people who don't know what happened to in fact avoid making judgments about their events based on tribalistic attachments. You are also the tenth person to use the "its just a game defense" a vast majority of whom were involved in some way.

[SevenEleven]

That was never going to work, though. So why blow it out of proportion? This is a fake, made-up game. The people who play this game aren't going to tolerate that kind of action, period.

For the record, Sev, I believe you about being out of the loop especially with regard to whatever is going down on Discord as well as here. We could debate about the extent of proportionate response to something like this at least by people here on AFE, although this reaction seems pretty par for the course given the history of the game at large. And I appreciate that people like S019 have at least been trying to talk it out.

Sure, the powers that be are not going to tolerate it. But for a while this was done by the in-game powers that be. People are going to be debating the extent of in-game consequences for that, because the structural integrity of the political LARP game runs on LARP laws that others will still try to LARP-enforce on the players who break a particular LARP law or other. To that extent at least I think the uproar about impeachment, court cases and whatnot is basically consistent with whatever self-correcting mechanism we the players have to ensure the game is still playable.

Like yeah, chess is a fake made-up game too, but if some player starts moving their bishops along ranks/files and rooks along diagonals the chess club is going to be understandably displeased about their style of play, let alone if said player imitates the famous pigeon and starts knocking pieces and the board over.

My point was more so that in the case of a handful of bad actors, they still rely on the rest of the participants to adhere to that. I do not think most Atlasians would settle for that outcome even if such a scheme came to fruition in totality.

[SevenEleven]

"It's just a game" applies just as easily to whatever plot as it does to those who would be affected by it. I think I speak for most users when I say that any such plot would be disregarded by most of us. It is just a game, and the foundation is set by the people who play, not any backroom schemes or the twisting of the Constitution. I hope you apologize for the not-so-naked comment made.

I am not going to apologize for expressing deep concerns as each seemingly detached, low information lefty who comes out of the wood work to seemingly stand in solidarity with the conspirators, down play the significance of the actions they did, or parrots their talking points intentionally, or unintentionally.

I'm a former President, and all I did was ask about what happened since it seems quite egregious. I'm sorry I almost died, otherwise I could be a high information lefty who comes out of the woodwork. Regardless, your insinuations were disrespectful and ill-informed. I'm happy to be back, but I'm not stoked on your attempts to score cheap political points with no basis in reality.

I am not scoring points, I am trying to figure out how a group of people talked themselves into nearly pulling off the first stolen election in game in 17 years, and seeing the slippery slope against a back drop of 1/6, there is reason to be concerned about next timed.

I don't wish ill health on anyone, but what I do expect is that for people who don't know what happened to in fact avoid making judgments about their events based on tribalistic attachments. You are also the tenth person to use the "its just a game defense" a vast majority of whom were involved in some way.

I made no judgment outside of criticizing the release of personally identifying information, something I think I've been very consistent about. No need to reply until you actually read my prior statement.

[Sestak]

I mean Sev is fundamentally right that this whole plot was too stupid to ever actually post a threat to Atlasia as it exists structurally (though in the long term it could have driven enough people away to cause/accelerate a descent to stagnation).

This is a strictly meta game consideration though. While such terms are really the only way I personally interact with the game, most people do partake in the ‘story’/role playing aspects of it. And from the perspective of a roleplayed Atlasian politician, yeah, viewing what happened as an existential threat is more understandable.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I mean Sev is fundamentally right that this whole plot was too stupid to ever actually post a threat to Atlasia as it exists structurally (though in the long term it could have driven enough people away to cause/accelerate a descent to stagnation).

This is a strictly meta game consideration though. While such terms are really the only way I personally interact with the game, most people do partake in the ‘story’/role playing aspects of it. And from the perspective of a roleplayed Atlasian politician, yeah, viewing what happened as an existential threat is more understandable.

Meta game there has to be considered the post 1/6 reality and risk of that further seeping in and influencing decisions.

For all of its history, Atlasia has general not had elections being put into doubt and for an elections game, that is one thing that would be a death knell.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

"It's just a game" applies just as easily to whatever plot as it does to those who would be affected by it. I think I speak for most users when I say that any such plot would be disregarded by most of us. It is just a game, and the foundation is set by the people who play, not any backroom schemes or the twisting of the Constitution. I hope you apologize for the not-so-naked comment made.

I am not going to apologize for expressing deep concerns as each seemingly detached, low information lefty who comes out of the wood work to seemingly stand in solidarity with the conspirators, down play the significance of the actions they did, or parrots their talking points intentionally, or unintentionally.

I'm a former President, and all I did was ask about what happened since it seems quite egregious. I'm sorry I almost died, otherwise I could be a high information lefty who comes out of the woodwork. Regardless, your insinuations were disrespectful and ill-informed. I'm happy to be back, but I'm not stoked on your attempts to score cheap political points with no basis in reality.

I am not scoring points, I am trying to figure out how a group of people talked themselves into nearly pulling off the first stolen election in game in 17 years, and seeing the slippery slope against a back drop of 1/6, there is reason to be concerned about next timed.

I don't wish ill health on anyone, but what I do expect is that for people who don't know what happened to in fact avoid making judgments about their events based on tribalistic attachments. You are also the tenth person to use the "its just a game defense" a vast majority of whom were involved in some way.

I made no judgment outside of criticizing the release of personally identifying information, something I think I've been very consistent about. No need to reply until you actually read my prior statement.

And I took action to mitigate the exposure of such information on election night into Monday morning. by removing the link form the thread.

I did read your original statement and your response to my detailing the events included:

That was never going to work, though.

 
- Yes because we had the court and I have the mod powers, sure.

So why blow it out of proportion?

- downplays the closest we have come to a stolen election since 2005, and in the aftermath of 1/6 and the events of the past year from Lt, to Donerail to now, seems rather naive at best.

This is a fake, made-up game.

This is the same tired, captain obvious statement uttered by every radical going back 15 years and has been incessantly cited by the conspirators to justify their actions or down play the severity there of.

The people who play this game aren't going to tolerate that kind of action, period.

- Your damn right we wouldn't.


Keep in mind that I was also gone for much of April. I was on twice in the between the start of the month and the elections. April 4/5th and April 14/15th, with a couple quick vote checks in between, messages urging people to get ready/declare for office, owing in large part to being back in college myself. I frankly wasn't even aware you were gone to that extent, nor am I aware of your presence or lack thereof on discord servers I do not have access too.

So while I certainly understand why you are outraged, I urge you to have some understanding of my perspective seeing someone come on saying the same line as S019, would tend to make me at least somewhat concerned. If you think such paranoia is unwarranted, why don't you consult the likes of Adam Griffin or Windjammer whose success was in good part based on being at least skeptical, if not downright paranoid regarding who is doing what and why. In that sense, I would say I am in good company.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Having a copy of the leaks and read a good portion of it I haven't seen Sev in there [though there is one username I am not familiar with]. Of course, he did vote for a number of OBD-cultists, but that isn't dispositive in and of itself with regards to direct involvement.

[Donerail]

Of course, he did vote for a number of OBD-cultists, but that isn't dispositive in and of itself with regards to direct involvement.

We're not a cult. We're an organization that promotes love, peace and kindness.

[Devout Centrist]

Of course, he did vote for a number of OBD-cultists, but that isn't dispositive in and of itself with regards to direct involvement.

We're not a cult. We're an organization that promotes love-

yeah, this is it

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Of course, he did vote for a number of OBD-cultists, but that isn't dispositive in and of itself with regards to direct involvement.

We're not a cult. We're an organization that promotes love, peace and kindness.

Nothing spreads peace and love like raining down hellfire from 30,000 feet?

[Joseph Cao]

That was never going to work, though. So why blow it out of proportion? This is a fake, made-up game. The people who play this game aren't going to tolerate that kind of action, period.

For the record, Sev, I believe you about being out of the loop especially with regard to whatever is going down on Discord as well as here. We could debate about the extent of proportionate response to something like this at least by people here on AFE, although this reaction seems pretty par for the course given the history of the game at large. And I appreciate that people like S019 have at least been trying to talk it out.

Sure, the powers that be are not going to tolerate it. But for a while this was done by the in-game powers that be. People are going to be debating the extent of in-game consequences for that, because the structural integrity of the political LARP game runs on LARP laws that others will still try to LARP-enforce on the players who break a particular LARP law or other. To that extent at least I think the uproar about impeachment, court cases and whatnot is basically consistent with whatever self-correcting mechanism we the players have to ensure the game is still playable.

Like yeah, chess is a fake made-up game too, but if some player starts moving their bishops along ranks/files and rooks along diagonals the chess club is going to be understandably displeased about their style of play, let alone if said player imitates the famous pigeon and starts knocking pieces and the board over.

My point was more so that in the case of a handful of bad actors, they still rely on the rest of the participants to adhere to that. I do not think most Atlasians would settle for that outcome even if such a scheme came to fruition in totality.

Of course; a recurring theme observed over the past several months seems to have been the bad actors in question not really caring about how other players would react, or for other players in general, which was part of what made it a bad plan in the first place.

That said from the point of view of those other players, there would be basically three realistic outcomes in the event this progressed as far as rigging the election: the other players successfully fight it, try unsuccessfully to fight it and all give up, or have a mass exodus potentially after either of these two.

- Option one is more or less the kind of "disproportionate" response I think you were referencing since it would eventually have had to involve mod powers being used.

- Option two basically turns the elections part of the elections and government simulator into a farce.

- Option three would be pretty close to if not outright death of the game, since if there was actually a mass exodus of everyone "against" them (which seems to have been pretty nearly everyone else) the victorious camp would maybe have a dozen active players at maximum, plus whoever from Pragcord wanted to join in the more """palatable""" version of the game that would be left. At the very least an acceleration of the game's death like Sestak said.

[Lumine]

The Crusader

Championing biased news since 2017

June 21st, 2022

Tales from Atlasland:

Victory at last!

Cao breaks the endless Labor streak,
Becomes first right-wing President since 2019,
Soon to be crowned God Emperor by desperate Federalists,
Would Labor have won had they run anyway?

₁

Don't Cry for Me, Atlasia

Peebs leaves the Cabinet after six years,
Our Thanos, constitutionally responsible for the purge of dozens,
Though we don't always condone her actions,
It must be said that it is truly, the end of an Era

₂

_____________________________
<sup>1.) Original Image: Puck Magazine, 1904, Wikimedia Commons, modified for arguably unfunny Atlasia satire.

1.) Original Image: Amparo de los Humildes. Afiche con el retrato de Eva Perón, 1948, Wikimedia Commons, modified for arguably unfunny Atlasia satire.</sup>

[Joseph Cao]

Has any player had a longer consecutive streak of holding a single office? Coming up empty at the moment.

Yankee’s stint in the pre-reset Senate is the next longest I can think of.

[Lumine]

Has any player had a longer consecutive streak of holding a single office? Coming up empty at the moment.

Yankee’s stint in the pre-reset Senate is the next longest I can think of.

I thought so too (that only Homelycooking as SOFE came close), but upon reflection, Windjammer has been a Supreme Court Justice for a few years longer.

And then I checked the wiki. To my shock, Opebo served on the Supreme Court for over seven years, so I think that makes him the winner of that record.

[Lumine]

The Crusader

Championing biased news since 2017

January 20th, 2023

Tales from Atlasland:

How dare they!

Supreme Court snubs and disdains Game Engine,
Justices refuse to hear case, cite having fun with the game as "illegal",
Outrage reaches newspaper editor living in comfortable exile,
Is Mr. Musk to be above our beloved Republic?

₁

_____________________________
^{1.) Original Image: Puck Magazine, 1897, Wikimedia Commons, modified for arguably unfunny Atlasia satire.}

[windjammer]

For the record.

I don't really care about what the GM writes. I don't believe the Supreme Court can simulate fake trial for the following reason: Elon Musk doesn't exist in this game and for this reason it is impossible to represent fairly something that doesn't exist.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

For the record.

I don't really care about what the GM writes. I don't believe the Supreme Court can simulate fake trial for the following reason: Elon Musk doesn't exist in this game and for this reason it is impossible to represent fairly something that doesn't exist.

We have repeatedly recongized the existence of NPCs in this game, along with state and local governments, and for a year or so even simulated their elections. I think the correct view would be that if the GM Team says Elon Musk exists, then he does (and isn't our standard around real world events (i.e. twitter existing) that we assume they still happen if the GM doesn't say otherwise and our mechanics don't prevent it?). Obviously, Musk cannot represent himself within the context of this game, but certainly someone could be appointed to represent him.

[windjammer]

For the record.

I don't really care about what the GM writes. I don't believe the Supreme Court can simulate fake trial for the following reason: Elon Musk doesn't exist in this game and for this reason it is impossible to represent fairly something that doesn't exist.

We have repeatedly recongized the existence of NPCs in this game, along with state and local governments, and for a year or so even simulated their elections. I think the correct view would be that if the GM Team says Elon Musk exists, then he does (and isn't our standard around real world events (i.e. twitter existing) that we assume they still happen if the GM doesn't say otherwise and our mechanics don't prevent it?). Obviously, Musk cannot represent himself within the context of this game, but certainly someone could be appointed to represent him.

I really have a lot of respect for NewYorkExpress activity. I have had the opportunity to interact with him on various things and I have always found him pleasant. My ruling isn't against his work.

However, it's one thing to take into account we are all having some personas. After all I would never be Chief Justice IRL as I don't have a law degree or whatever lol.

But in the end, I really believe that court cases have to respect the right of due process. The accused has the right to be represented by someone he wants. And this isn't possible to simulate that as Elon Musk isn't a poster.

I'm someone who is really laxist on "standing" etc but this is going too far for me. I can't host a mock trial with the accused person not even existing.

[Lumine]

Announcement from the Editor: Though blissfully unaware of much of what has actually happened since September (so no new musicals in store), a terminal case of boredom has led the editor of this newspaper to be open to new content. Players interested in having an op-ed published, an interview, or other forms of content may feel free to contact the editor.

[Mr. Reactionary]

For the record.

I don't really care about what the GM writes. I don't believe the Supreme Court can simulate fake trial for the following reason: Elon Musk doesn't exist in this game and for this reason it is impossible to represent fairly something that doesn't exist.

We have repeatedly recongized the existence of NPCs in this game, along with state and local governments, and for a year or so even simulated their elections. I think the correct view would be that if the GM Team says Elon Musk exists, then he does (and isn't our standard around real world events (i.e. twitter existing) that we assume they still happen if the GM doesn't say otherwise and our mechanics don't prevent it?). Obviously, Musk cannot represent himself within the context of this game, but certainly someone could be appointed to represent him.

I really have a lot of respect for NewYorkExpress activity. I have had the opportunity to interact with him on various things and I have always found him pleasant. My ruling isn't against his work.

However, it's one thing to take into account we are all having some personas. After all I would never be Chief Justice IRL as I don't have a law degree or whatever lol.

But in the end, I really believe that court cases have to respect the right of due process. The accused has the right to be represented by someone he wants. And this isn't possible to simulate that as Elon Musk isn't a poster.

I'm someone who is really laxist on "standing" etc but this is going too far for me. I can't host a mock trial with the accused person not even existing.

Theres literally no point in passing laws then if NPCs arent people. It nullifies pretty much every federal and regional law. You will take dumb cases where S019 says "I dont like the Souths abortion law therefore I can sue" and blow up 10 years worth of atlasian precedent to score a hack win in a hypothetical advisory opinion with no actual case, but an actual case arising from a federal law as applied to a person by a GM story, meh never ever judiciable ever. The law is therefore dead. Its ridiculous and ignores the clear mandatory language in the Constitution. Something tells me if we had charged an NPC with having an illegal abortion the Court would swoop in and demand we stop.

No worries. Judicial reform will resolve this.

[windjammer]

For the record.

I don't really care about what the GM writes. I don't believe the Supreme Court can simulate fake trial for the following reason: Elon Musk doesn't exist in this game and for this reason it is impossible to represent fairly something that doesn't exist.

We have repeatedly recongized the existence of NPCs in this game, along with state and local governments, and for a year or so even simulated their elections. I think the correct view would be that if the GM Team says Elon Musk exists, then he does (and isn't our standard around real world events (i.e. twitter existing) that we assume they still happen if the GM doesn't say otherwise and our mechanics don't prevent it?). Obviously, Musk cannot represent himself within the context of this game, but certainly someone could be appointed to represent him.

I really have a lot of respect for NewYorkExpress activity. I have had the opportunity to interact with him on various things and I have always found him pleasant. My ruling isn't against his work.

However, it's one thing to take into account we are all having some personas. After all I would never be Chief Justice IRL as I don't have a law degree or whatever lol.

But in the end, I really believe that court cases have to respect the right of due process. The accused has the right to be represented by someone he wants. And this isn't possible to simulate that as Elon Musk isn't a poster.

I'm someone who is really laxist on "standing" etc but this is going too far for me. I can't host a mock trial with the accused person not even existing.

Theres literally no point in passing laws then if NPCs arent people. It nullifies pretty much every federal and regional law. You will take dumb cases where S019 says "I dont like the Souths abortion law therefore I can sue" and blow up 10 years worth of atlasian precedent to score a hack win in a hypothetical advisory opinion with no actual case, but an actual case arising from a federal law as applied to a person by a GM story, meh never ever judiciable ever. The law is therefore dead. Its ridiculous and ignores the clear mandatory language in the Constitution. Something tells me if we had charged an NPC with having an illegal abortion the Court would swoop in and demand we stop.

No worries. Judicial reform will resolve this.

I'm not being hypocritical about it. I believe that anyone who wants to sue should be able to sue and this is why I don't take into account "standing" like the IRL one. I have always encouraged this kind of things and I will continue to do so.

However, I'm not going to host a trial against someone who can defend himself as he doesn't exist. I don't believe that the GM has the power to create that. I'm not accusing NewYorkExpress of malpractice, however I remember very well how in the past some GMs went off board by killing the president, making terrorist attacks, etc etc. And that has to be taken into account.


Your personal vendetta against me is very ludicrous and I don't like your attitude at all. You're always sneaky, never be honest about your intentions and always trying to reach your goals by diverting attention. And you're really to screw up the entire judiciary court for reaching your vendetta goals. If you want to remove me from the Supreme Court it would be better that you simply try to impeach me from office instead of writing a constitutional amendment removing from office. But no, you prefer to divert attention by focusing on "term limits".

[Mr. Reactionary]

I genuinely don't know you and I don't think WE really interacted

You're always sneaky, never be honest about your intentions and always trying to reach your goals by diverting attention.

[windjammer]

I genuinely don't know you and I don't think WE really interacted

You're always sneaky, never be honest about your intentions and always trying to reach your goals by diverting attention.

Well yes,
We never interacted. That doesn't mean that I'm not aware of you writing long bills with poison pills stuff inside it.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

For the record.

I don't really care about what the GM writes. I don't believe the Supreme Court can simulate fake trial for the following reason: Elon Musk doesn't exist in this game and for this reason it is impossible to represent fairly something that doesn't exist.

We have repeatedly recongized the existence of NPCs in this game, along with state and local governments, and for a year or so even simulated their elections. I think the correct view would be that if the GM Team says Elon Musk exists, then he does (and isn't our standard around real world events (i.e. twitter existing) that we assume they still happen if the GM doesn't say otherwise and our mechanics don't prevent it?). Obviously, Musk cannot represent himself within the context of this game, but certainly someone could be appointed to represent him.

I really have a lot of respect for NewYorkExpress activity. I have had the opportunity to interact with him on various things and I have always found him pleasant. My ruling isn't against his work.

However, it's one thing to take into account we are all having some personas. After all I would never be Chief Justice IRL as I don't have a law degree or whatever lol.

But in the end, I really believe that court cases have to respect the right of due process. The accused has the right to be represented by someone he wants. And this isn't possible to simulate that as Elon Musk isn't a poster.

I'm someone who is really laxist on "standing" etc but this is going too far for me. I can't host a mock trial with the accused person not even existing.

Theres literally no point in passing laws then if NPCs arent people. It nullifies pretty much every federal and regional law. You will take dumb cases where S019 says "I dont like the Souths abortion law therefore I can sue" and blow up 10 years worth of atlasian precedent to score a hack win in a hypothetical advisory opinion with no actual case, but an actual case arising from a federal law as applied to a person by a GM story, meh never ever judiciable ever. The law is therefore dead. Its ridiculous and ignores the clear mandatory language in the Constitution. Something tells me if we had charged an NPC with having an illegal abortion the Court would swoop in and demand we stop.

No worries. Judicial reform will resolve this.

I'm not being hypocritical about it. I believe that anyone who wants to sue should be able to sue and this is why I don't take into account "standing" like the IRL one. I have always encouraged this kind of things and I will continue to do so.

However, I'm not going to host a trial against someone who can defend himself as he doesn't exist. I don't believe that the GM has the power to create that. I'm not accusing NewYorkExpress of malpractice, however I remember very well how in the past some GMs went off board by killing the president, making terrorist attacks, etc etc. And that has to be taken into account.


Your personal vendetta against me is very ludicrous and I don't like your attitude at all. You're always sneaky, never be honest about your intentions and always trying to reach your goals by diverting attention. And you're really to screw up the entire judiciary court for reaching your vendetta goals. If you want to remove me from the Supreme Court it would be better that you simply try to impeach me from office instead of writing a constitutional amendment removing from office. But no, you prefer to divert attention by focusing on "term limits".

1. If we adopt that standard, we'd need to invalidate the numerous GM stories that talk about state and local officials, or simulate protests, or foreign governments/elections......NPCs are part of the core of this game.

2. If Reactionary's amendment succeeds, 2 of the new judges will be decided by a Senate in which most members are in a different party than R is (PPT is merely a procedural position with basically 0 power to block a nominee). A further 2 will be decided by regional legislatures in which he does not even have a vote. And of course the Lincoln judge hasn't been there long enough to be immediately affected by this. It's hardly a court that he will be personally designing. This is just about regular turnover and accountability so we don't have this elite class of people controlling the inner workings of the game despite the fact that most of them weren't chosen by currently active players.

[windjammer]

1. If we adopt that standard, we'd need to invalidate the numerous GM stories that talk about state and local officials, or simulate protests, or foreign governments/elections......NPCs are part of the core of this game.

I don't have to invalidate anything. My ruling isn't saying that the GM's work is unconstitutional or whatever.

2. If Reactionary's amendment succeeds, 2 of the new judges will be decided by a Senate in which most members are in a different party than R is (PPT is merely a procedural position with basically 0 power to block a nominee). A further 2 will be decided by regional legislatures in which he does not even have a vote. And of course the Lincoln judge hasn't been there long enough to be immediately affected by this. It's hardly a court that he will be personally designing. This is just about regular turnover and accountability so we don't have this elite class of people controlling the inner workings of the game despite the fact that most of them weren't chosen by currently active players.

Honestly I find it absolutely sh**t*y how this bill is just removing me from office instantly. I'm not even term limits. It is this clause that I find it absolutely appalling and an attack against my person.