Which place do you think is better

[DavidB.]

Do you guys really think every country in Europe is filled with the original inhabitants?  Or am I missing something?

Pray tell, who did the Dutch steal the Netherlands from? Don't leave me in suspense any longer. (I suppose Spain would be an especially edgy answer, but I'm not willing to accept another one.)

[dead0man]

Do you guys really think every country in Europe is filled with the original inhabitants?  Or am I missing something?

Pray tell, who did the Dutch steal the Netherlands from? Don't leave me in suspense any longer. (I suppose Spain would be an especially edgy answer, but I'm not willing to accept another one.)

Well, the Maglemosian were ran out by the Swifterbants around 5600BC, they kind of evolved into the Funnelbeakers.  The Vlaardingens come in somewhere before the Corded Wares took over most of everything.  All that before 2000BC.

But really, of what we know know, the Celts took over from somebody that was there before, then the Romans came, then they left and the Germans came in....then we let that simmer for a thousand years or so.  Bam, the Dutch.  So yeah, the Dutch didn't steal it directly, but they evolved out of the people that stole it.

[DavidB.]

Well, the Maglemosian were ran out by the Swifterbants around 5600BC, they kind of evolved into the Funnelbeakers.  The Vlaardingens come in somewhere before the Corded Wares took over most of everything.  All that before 2000BC.

But really, of what we know know, the Celts took over from somebody that was there before, then the Romans came, then they left and the Germans came in....then we let that simmer for a thousand years or so.  Bam, the Dutch.  So yeah, the Dutch didn't steal it directly, but they evolved out of the people that stole it.

I get your point. I still think Europe is meaningfully different from the U.S. in the sense that in the U.S., the dominant population (i.e. whites) arrived much more recently and took the land from a group that still exists today. Not that this matters to me, don't get me wrong: Europeans simply acquired the American land because they were stronger and more advanced, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. To the victor go the spoils. Sick and tired of the idea that modern-day Americans carry some sort of eternal sin with them. But I do understand the argument that America is "stolen" land, even if I disagree. For Europe, that's really... stretching it quite far.

[dead0man]

I get your point. I still think Europe is meaningfully different from the U.S. in the sense that in the U.S., the dominant population (i.e. whites) arrived much more recently and took the land from a group that still exists today. Not that this matters to me, don't get me wrong: Europeans simply acquired the American land because they were stronger and more advanced, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. To the victor go the spoils. Sick and tired of the idea that modern-day Americans carry some sort of eternal sin with them. But I do understand the argument that America is "stolen" land, even if I disagree. For Europe, that's really... stretching it quite far.

I don't disagree.  I was just pointing out that (almost?) everywhere on Earth is under the control of some group who are not primarily made up of the first humans to arrive on that spot.  Maybe some of the Pacific island countries?  Mongolians?  It gets complicated real fast when you start thinking about it.  Who are "the Chinese"....just the Han?  When does one stop being a "German" and start being a "Viking" or "Frank" or "Dane".  Austrians are going through this right now, right?  I know my buddy's Austrian born wife does not consider herself German at all.

but yeah, America, Canada, AU/NZ, Aruba <tips hat>, etc are more recent, but not that recent.  I certainly don't feel any guilt, it helps that I have a couple of Lakota Sioux women who call me Dad living in the basement and despite being here for many generations, most of my ancestors came after the US existed, they were not colonizers, they were immigrants.  No slave owners either.

[bagelman]

Both are on stolen land.

Seriously would like you to explain how the EU is stolen land, unless you have really strong opinions on French Guinea or something.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

Maybe the Indo-Europeans stole the land from the Basques (IIRC the the people who were there first)?

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

I get your point. I still think Europe is meaningfully different from the U.S. in the sense that in the U.S., the dominant population (i.e. whites) arrived much more recently and took the land from a group that still exists today. Not that this matters to me, don't get me wrong: Europeans simply acquired the American land because they were stronger and more advanced, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. To the victor go the spoils. Sick and tired of the idea that modern-day Americans carry some sort of eternal sin with them. But I do understand the argument that America is "stolen" land, even if I disagree. For Europe, that's really... stretching it quite far.

I don't disagree.  I was just pointing out that (almost?) everywhere on Earth is under the control of some group who are not primarily made up of the first humans to arrive on that spot.  Maybe some of the Pacific island countries?  Mongolians?  It gets complicated real fast when you start thinking about it.  Who are "the Chinese"....just the Han?  When does one stop being a "German" and start being a "Viking" or "Frank" or "Dane".  Austrians are going through this right now, right?  I know my buddy's Austrian born wife does not consider herself German at all.

but yeah, America, Canada, AU/NZ, Aruba <tips hat>, etc are more recent, but not that recent.  I certainly don't feel any guilt, it helps that I have a couple of Lakota Sioux women who call me Dad living in the basement and despite being here for many generations, most of my ancestors came after the US existed, they were not colonizers, they were immigrants.  No slave owners either.

Reporting you for possibly being Tender Branson sock.

[Sumner 1868]

Credit to dead0man for good posts.

[Mr. Smith]

Iceland wasn't even inhabited when settled.

Anyway the answer is UK...it'll be EU should Scotland leave the UK and decide to join the EU on its own.

Too bad I don't have the money to move there.