Italian Elections and Politics 2022 - Our Time to Schlein

[njwes]

Maybe a bit obscure, but figured this was the best place to ask: what was the ideology of the Italian Communist Party in the 80s? Or maybe more precisely the last 5 or 10 years before it split into the PRC and the PDS? Were any of the party leaders/politicians still actual doctrinaire Marxists/Marxist-LeninistS by that point, or had everyone more or less evolved into sort of milquetoast Euro social democrats?

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Anyway, if Salvini or Meloni are serious about undermining legal abortion once they (inevitably) get their shot at power, I can only hope Italian women will make them pay a high price for it. This isn't America and it isn't even Poland. We have a broad consensus around safe, legal, subsidized and tightly-regulated abortion. It's not my ideal if I would design it from scratch, but right now upsetting it in any direction would just blow up in everyone's faces.

Nah, they don't actually have any plans to do anything to law n. 194.

Also *checks demographic trends* soon there won't be abortions anymore in Italy anyway because people will just stop making kids

Forgive my black humour pls

Maybe a bit obscure, but figured this was the best place to ask: what was the ideology of the Italian Communist Party in the 80s? Or maybe more precisely the last 5 or 10 years before it split into the PRC and the PDS? Were any of the party leaders/politicians still actual doctrinaire Marxists/Marxist-LeninistS by that point, or had everyone more or less evolved into sort of milquetoast Euro social democrats?

The party under Natta (1984-1988) had currents going in both directions, and the main atmosphere was just that of "wilderness years". The most notable thing was when it called a referendum to repeal changes that the Craxi government had made to the sliding wage scale (TL;DR automatically indexing wages to inflation)... and lost.
The party under Occhetto (1988-1991) had a psychodrama induced by the fall of the Berlin Wall, of course, and the rift between the two tendencies opened bigly. Obviously the majority was just going along the transition to social democrats, and indeed PDS is normally considered the "official heir" to PCI.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Honestly, at this point I wouldn't be shocked if Salvini turned out to be a Primitive Baptist sleeper agent sent to weaken Catholicism on its home turf by making it as all'americana as possible, even though if that were the case he probably would have become a crooked priest rather than an extremist politician.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Also *checks demographic trends* soon there won't be abortions anymore in Italy anyway because people will just stop making kids

Forgive my black humour pls

True

And of course, every government's solution to that is to make patronizing ads scolding women for not having more kids instead of, you know, creating the socio-economic conditions that make family-building possible.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Also *checks demographic trends* soon there won't be abortions anymore in Italy anyway because people will just stop making kids

Forgive my black humour pls

True

And of course, every government's solution to that is to make patronizing ads scolding women for not having more kids instead of, you know, creating the socio-economic conditions that make family-building possible.

Honestly I am not sure what kind of ads you're referring to.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Also *checks demographic trends* soon there won't be abortions anymore in Italy anyway because people will just stop making kids

Forgive my black humour pls

True

And of course, every government's solution to that is to make patronizing ads scolding women for not having more kids instead of, you know, creating the socio-economic conditions that make family-building possible.

Honestly I am not sure what kind of ads you're referring to.

That was news from back from the Renzi days. I don't remember the details except that it was cringe.

[jaichind]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-24/italy-s-conte-resisting-pressure-to-resign-as-senate-vote-looms

What?  There is another Senate vote ?

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-24/italy-s-conte-resisting-pressure-to-resign-as-senate-vote-looms

What?  There is another Senate vote ?

That is a vote on a report on the state of the judiciary system that will be presented by Minister of Justice Alfonso Bonafede. Of course it is not binding for confidence matters (well, unless the government calls a confidence question upon the vote, and I have no idea whether it shall happen) but in any case it might make Conte look extremely bad if the report was turned down by the Senate.

[jaichind]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-24/italy-s-conte-resisting-pressure-to-resign-as-senate-vote-looms

What?  There is another Senate vote ?

That is a vote on a report on the state of the judiciary system that will be presented by Minister of Justice Alfonso Bonafede. Of course it is not binding for confidence matters (well, unless the government calls a confidence question upon the vote, and I have no idea whether it shall happen) but in any case it might make Conte look extremely bad if the report was turned down by the Senate.

I am reading in various news wires that Conte’s coalition allies are pressing him to step down before this Senate vote they expect he will lose in a tactical move to allow him a chance to try to form a new government.

[Astatine]

Conte apparently just announced his resignation...

Edit: ...to seek a mandate for a 3rd cabinet. Shouldn't just read news article headlines.

[brucejoel99]

Does "forming a new government" just mean trying to re-negotiate Italia Viva back into the fray?

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Does "forming a new government" just mean trying to re-negotiate Italia Viva back into the fray?

No, it can mean basically anything, although I assume that one is the preferential option (actually, do I? it all feels so in flux).

[njwes]

Does "forming a new government" just mean trying to re-negotiate Italia Viva back into the fray?

No, it can mean basically anything, although I assume that one is the preferential option (actually, do I? it all feels so in flux).

As best as you can tell, is the current Italian government situation very much changing day by day and all the politicians are just improvising as they go along? Or, do you think this was all part of some months long "plan" (even if sort of clumsy and shambolic) on the part of the governing parties and Italia Viva? Because all of the Conte government drama and activity in the last month seems sort of unnecessarily chaotic and destabilizing lol

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Does "forming a new government" just mean trying to re-negotiate Italia Viva back into the fray?

No, it can mean basically anything, although I assume that one is the preferential option (actually, do I? it all feels so in flux).

As best as you can tell, is the current Italian government situation very much changing day by day and all the politicians are just improvising as they go along? Or, do you think this was all part of some months long "plan" (even if sort of clumsy and shambolic) on the part of the governing parties and Italia Viva? Because all of the Conte government drama and activity in the last month seems sort of unnecessarily chaotic and destabilizing lol

It may be part of a "plan" on part of Italia Viva, but I strongly doubt anyone else was intending this (especially the other governing parties - I don't see what they gain out of this). Conte may play 3D chess sometimes, but definitely not 12D chess. And you know, all of Italy's history is sort of unnecessarily chaotic and destabilizing.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Does "forming a new government" just mean trying to re-negotiate Italia Viva back into the fray?

No, it can mean basically anything, although I assume that one is the preferential option (actually, do I? it all feels so in flux).

As best as you can tell, is the current Italian government situation very much changing day by day and all the politicians are just improvising as they go along? Or, do you think this was all part of some months long "plan" (even if sort of clumsy and shambolic) on the part of the governing parties and Italia Viva? Because all of the Conte government drama and activity in the last month seems sort of unnecessarily chaotic and destabilizing lol

It may be part of a "plan" on part of Italia Viva, but I strongly doubt anyone else was intending this (especially the other governing parties - I don't see what they gain out of this). Conte may play 3D chess sometimes, but definitely not 12D chess. And you know, all of Italy's history is sort of unnecessarily chaotic and destabilizing.

Yeah, I think each of the parties involved are gambling rather than planning. Some of the gambles might pay off, others will not. We'll find out soon enough which (or will we even? maybe each side finds a way to draw it out as long as possible).

Either way, Salvini ought to be feeling better about his position than he has since the Summer 2019. I hope if we get some type of at least short-term governmental agreement, the parties manage to make a more proportional election law before we go to the polls again.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Giuseppe Conte resigned today, in the end. The crisis of government has officially started. Of course the Conte II government will remain in charge for current affairs until the next one is sworn in. If the crisis lasts long enough, its length could surpass that of the Gentiloni and Monti governments. Let alone if God forbid we go to new elections.
Going by people, it feels very weird, but Conte is now less than two months away from surpassing Renzi for time spent as head of government.

Now all bets are off, I guess. The wild ride is going to get even more wild.

Either way, Salvini Meloni ought to be feeling better about his her position than she has since the Summer 2019. I hope if we get some type of at least short-term governmental agreement, the parties manage to make a more proportional election law before we go to the polls again.

FTFY

[jaichind]

I may be naïve but it seems to me it would be pretty easy for Conte to round up some FI and IV Senator to back his new government.  They would all be too petrified of a snap election where they would lose their seats.  Getting FI onboard seems the way to avoid having IV as the single point of failure for Conte III.

[Former President tack50]

[Antonio the Sixth]

I may be naïve but it seems to me it would be pretty easy for Conte to round up some FI and IV Senator to back his new government.  They would all be too petrified of a snap election where they would lose their seats.  Getting FI onboard seems the way to avoid having IV as the single point of failure for Conte III.

And that's exactly what he's trying to do. However, it appears that right now Berlusconi believe that his political survival requires hugging his right+wing partners as tightly as possible, and he has enough pull to enforce discipline in his own party. This might change though.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

A new euRopEist CentRist parliamentary group has been founded in the Senate. It is called "Europeisti-MAIE-Centro Democratico" (MAIE being a hilarious party representing Italians abroad - Antonio may have more to say about this). The group among other people "borrowed" PD Senator Tatjana Rojc (who remains a member of PD) to reach the magic number of 10, which is sad because I would have much respect for a writer and literary critic representing the Slovenian minority in Parliament, as long as she doesn't make silly stuff like this. Also the group seems to be taking yet other random indies with it and growing beyond 10, so that move was useless.
Some of these people are implying that they would immediately back Conte if there were an election and he got into the fray... which would be more pukeworthy than Monti's Scelta Civica back in 2013 honestly.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Also totally unrelated but I am enjoying this thread much more than I would have expected when I first entered it (as can be seen in my very first post here), which I attribute to a variety of reasons:

- I am less of a knee-jerk contrarian (and possibly more of a leftist) than I was last August.
- The Lega ilk have not been in the news that much since they stopped being in government, which means I don't have to suffer a bunch of people (foreigners especially) debating iS sAlvIni a FasCisT and other similar things that get to my nerves.
- I have in some sense taken control of the thread's day-to-day (sorry, Antonio).

[Antonio the Sixth]

Also totally unrelated but I am enjoying this thread much more than I would have expected when I first entered it (as can be seen in my very first post here), which I attribute to a variety of reasons:

- I am less of a knee-jerk contrarian (and possibly more of a leftist) than I was last August.

- The Lega ilk have not been in the news that much since they stopped being in government, which means I don't have to suffer a bunch of people (foreigners especially) debating iS sAlvIni a FasCisT and other similar things that get to my nerves.

Oh, just you wait until the right wins the next election (which might be very soon). I'm fully prepared to doom for the next 5 years.

- I have in some sense taken control of the thread's day-to-day (sorry, Antonio).

lmao, no worries I'm clearly getting too old for this sh*t, so I guess my time has come to pass the torch to the new generation.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Sergio Mattarella today conferred an explorative mandate to President of the Chamber Roberto Fico (M5S). I doubt it will bring to anything, but in any case, Fico has time till Tuesday to, well, explore.
PD and M5S want Conte. IV keeps saying "we want to have a peaceful debate and find points of convergence bla bla bla". Salvini is calling for new elections, but maybe kinda sorta also for a centre-right government without passing from the ballot.
Mattarella has said that a new government is to be found fast.

Also PD is seriously getting on my nerves with all the appeals to EurOpeisM. Is it so difficult to say "we don't want a right-wing government" instead?

[Estrella]

Apologies for this Tenderism, but I just wanted to note that Roberto Fico became President of the Chamber two days after Robert Fico resigned as PM of Slovakia and was succeeded by a guy with an Italian surname.

[Former President tack50]

Apologies for this Tenderism, but I just wanted to note that Roberto Fico became President of the Chamber two days after Robert Fico resigned as PM of Slovakia and was succeeded by a guy with an Italian surname.

If that is true, RIP Italy