Italian Elections and Politics 2022 - Our Time to Schlein

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

The election results were not "good" for the left.

Tuscany Right Increase 10.1%
Apulian  Right Increase 6.2%

LMAO
Maybe you mean they were not good for M5S?

2015 Tuscany, centre-left candidate Enrico Rossi - 48%
2020 Tuscany, centre-left candidate Eugenio Giani - 48.6%

2015 Apulia, centre-left candidate Michele Emiliano - 47.1%
2020 Apulia, centre-left candidate Michele Emiliano - 46.8%

[palandio]

The election results were not "good" for the left.

Tuscany Right Increase 10.1%
Apulian  Right Increase 6.2%

Whom are you even replying to?

[Antonio the Sixth]

So, here's my #analysis, a little belatedly (sorry, it's been another busy day - been having a lot of those lately).

The biggest surprise for me was Puglia. Honestly, before the election my guts were telling me Emiliano was toast (though I didn't say so out of scaramanzia). He had everybody against him, both M5S (because the local M5S leadership is full of idiots) and IV (because Renzi and Emiliano are bitter enemies), and a right-wing united around a strong candidate. All that while being a divisive figure in a region with a right-leaning history at a time where the right is still polling high nationwide. It was enough of a surprise that the polls were so competitive, but to win (with about the same percentage he got in 2015, and the same margin that Giani and Bonaccini won by in the red regions)... well, that's nothing short of remarkable. I guess my perception of him as an impressive politician was correct all along. There is a lot to quibble about the other races this cycle, but this is a clear-cut victory for the left and we have every right to celebrate it. And while talks of trends in other regions are indeed greatly exaggerated, I think there might be some truth to it here. This used to be one of the most conservative regions in the South, and yet the left has been able to hold it down for 15, through two separate waves of right-wing ascendancy. This is starting to look meaningful.

Toscana is nice. I was feeling a bit better about it going in, due to the precedent in E-R. It's easier to believe that there's a resilient leftist vote there that will come home on election day (to keep up the US parallel, think of how Connecticut or Oregon flirt with electing Republicans but always come around for Dems in the end). I was still worried, of course, especially because I'd heard Ceccardi being hyped up as this great leghista ace in the hole since before the EU election. Well, the hype turned out to be just that. You know the most hilarious thing? Ceccardi, a symbol of a Lega "rooted deep in the territories" of former red bastions... lost the town she had been the mayor of, Cascina. And not by a hair either: by a whopping 10 points. Turns out those who knew her best didn't like her much anymore. The internal provincial patterns were very interesting, and aptly if colorfully described by Battista. The results in the Siena province are especially dear to my heart because this is basically my favorite place in Italy. It's glad to see there is a tradition of rural leftism that is still alive and kicking. Anyway, winning Tuscany by just 8 points is still an underperformance, of course, but like E-R, it's a marked recovery since 2019 and even possibly since 2018.

Campania and Veneto mirror each other, and in a way it's really nice to see. Those are highly abnormal election results for Italy - we've almost never elections for offices higher than mayors turn into blowouts. But those abnormal elections took place in abnormal times, abnormal times where the connection between sound policies and saved lives is clearer than ever. I'm no fan of Zaia, but there's no denying that his COVID policies were a resounding success. Veneto was the only region to adopt systematic testing from the very beginning, and despite being one of the earliest epicenters of the pandemics, saw its healthcare system weather the crisis successfully. By June, it had less than a quarter the death rate of Lombardy, and less than half that of Piedmont and E-R. Whatever you think of Zaia as a leader, this is a remarkable achievement, and it makes voters' gratitude very understandable.

The same story goes in Campania. De Luca went viral, in classic De Luca fashion, for calling on cops to come at the people who flouted the lockdown with flamethrowers. But it was more than just bluster: De Luca consistently put the health and safety of Campanians first in his policies, and was always a voice calling for stricter and more severe policies to prevent the spread of the epidemic (unfortunately, the national government didn't always listen to him, and that's part of why we're in the middle of a second wave now). Once again, voters saw all that and they were grateful. Before the pandemic, De Luca was down 10 points in the polls - he won by over 50. That has to be one of the greatest turnarounds in the history of democratic elections worldwide. It's really nice to see that sometime, plain old good government can make a difference in an election. And thank God for it - now we can look forward to 5 more years of wonderful rhetorical flourishes and merciless eviscerations on the part of this titan of modern politics. My King Is Alive indeed!

Marche is of course a bitter pill to swallow. Battista is right that it was never as red as the other Red Regions, but it was part of the same continuum and is one of those more remote, sparsely-populated places where left-wing support has been eroding. It is quite telling that the left still controls 5 of the 9 "big" regions (those with more than 5% of the population), but not a single one of the "small" regions. And to add insult to injury, the winner is a full-blown neofascist. Sadly that doesn't seem to be a serious flaw to voters anymore... Well, at least the 12-point margin is not quite the 20-point margin in Umbria, and it remains to be seen how durable those shifts are.

Liguria is a really bitter pill to swallow. Toti was barely elected in 2015 due to a stupid left-wing split, and he's fundamentally an unserious lightweight. There's no real good-government motivation here: Liguria weathered the COVID outbreak pretty badly and Toti gave a poor example when he was caught multiple times not wearing his mask when he should have. Pundits say the rebuilding of the Genoa bridge that collapsed tow years ago bolstered his campaign, and that might well be true, but it's pretty undeserved given that most of the work was done by the mayor (who is right-wing himself) and the national government. Anyway, Toti won by 17 points, the biggest win for the right in the region in the modern era. I have no idea what this result means in the long run, but I have to hope there's no long-term trend at work. Liguria is historically basically a Red Region, and it must stay that way.

Valle d'Aosta... is Valle d'Aosta. As Parochial Boy points out, there was a big corruption scandal there that engulfed the incumbent regional council (indeed, that forced its dissolution, since it would normally have had 3 more years to go). And now Lega is the first party here, the only genuinely good result of the night for Salvini. Still, since the political system there still works based on good old (normal, sane) First Republic rules, there's no telling what that will entail concretely. I'm kind of hoping that a majority can be cobbled up without relying on Lega votes (of course that would mean relying on some of the disgraced incumbent parties, but that's life). I still have family ties in Valle d'Aosta and I'd hate for Lega to gain a foothold in this weird remote corner of the country.

The referendum results are exactly what we all expected. No big surprises there. Very disappointing to see Italians abroad vote for it even more massively than residents - we are usually less into populist bullsh*t than other Italians. On the other hand, I guess Italians abroad don't have much reason to care about their connection to their MP. Oh well. Either way, the implications are mixed. We know the bad news, but the good news is that this makes it imperative to pass a new electoral law. Until a new law is pass, I'm not even sure if it's constitutionally possible to have elections right now, which is. Quite the can of worms. This means that 1. there's no chance of the government collapsing any time soon, and 2. when a new electoral law is passed, it's hard not to believe that it would be largely a return to some form of PR. Which is exactly what we need right now to ensure that Salvini never gains the "full power" he so craves. So, I guess there's a silver linin to every cloud.

So that's it, those are my ramblings, if anyone cares.

[Mike Thick]

Found out about the Tuscan regional elections when, yesterday, I got a postcard from the Italian Government telling me they were happening. Got here too late for me to actually make a decision, but I probably wouldn't have traveled all the way to Italy just to vote lmao. Fortunately, PD didn't need my help.

Also cast my first Italian vote ever in the Constitutional Referendum a few weeks ago -- voted no because I read somewhere that Lega supported it, but probably would have gone yes if I'd mailed by ballot after PD said they support it. Kind of feel bad that I'm about as high-info a voter as you can be in America, but I have no idea what's going on in Italy. Oh well. Staying up to date on America keeps my hands full

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Found out about the Tuscan regional elections when, yesterday, I got a postcard from the Italian Government telling me they were happening. Got here too late for me to actually make a decision, but I probably wouldn't have traveled all the way to Italy just to vote lmao. Fortunately, PD didn't need my help.

Also cast my first Italian vote ever in the Constitutional Referendum a few weeks ago -- voted no because I read somewhere that Lega supported it, but probably would have gone yes if I'd mailed by ballot after PD said they support it. Kind of feel bad that I'm about as high-info a voter as you can be in America, but I have no idea what's going on in Italy. Oh well. Staying up to date on America keeps my hands full

you voted the right way - as did the other Atlas Italians Abroad.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

- MEGASNIP -

Apart from our - mostly rhetorical - disagreement on the last part (I am also frustrated like as hell at the idea of the fourth different electoral law in 15 years), I'll add this:

LIGURIA
Liguria I think will come back to its status as Red Region Lite. It's actually pretty urban. Genoa = 1/3 of Liguria.
Toti won by so much because his list slamdunked in the city of Genoa for I don't know what reason. It was unexpected.
La Spezia 2019: Right 45 - Left 35
Savona 2019: Right 41.5 - Left 38
Genoa 2019: Left 39.5 - Right 39

La Spezia 2020: Toti +4
Savona 2020: Toti +1
At which point you would expect Genoa to be say Sansa +5 or so and instead it was Toti +8. Meh.

I think Genoa will snap back to pretty left-leaning at the next national election.

TUSCANY
Thanks for the recognition hahaha, I literally spouted that just because I wanted to say "Siena hick Marxists" and then got along.
Lol at Ceccardi losing Cascina. Maybe we can arrest the suburban drift. There's also the fact that people in the town may be kinda enraged that in 2019 she said "whoops I was elected MEP, bye bye" and now her former deputy mayor is in charge of Cascina.

Yesterday Nathan wrote this - I am not sure he had Ceccardi in mind but I actually think it fits her well.

"political Catholicism is when you're right-wing; the more right-wing you are, the more Catholic it is " nonsense-mongering

> Opposed strongly the construction of a mosque in a city she's not even in charge of
> Gave honorary citizenship to Magdi Cristiano Allam
> Names her daughter after a legendary Pisan heroine who stopped a Saracen invasion

> Was accused of not registering civil unions
> So much a defender of the traditional family that she lives with her partner but they are not married or anything

Also this quote from late 2016: "Demonstrations against violence on women are not useful [...] teach them first of all how not to be preys"

Too bad that Ceccardi <Tender Branson> is actually a very good-looking woman </Tender Branson>

[CumbrianLefty]

The election results were not "good" for the left.

Tuscany Right Increase 10.1%
Apulian  Right Increase 6.2%

Whom are you even replying to?

Someone imaginary?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The election results were not "good" for the left.

Tuscany Right Increase 10.1%
Apulian  Right Increase 6.2%

Bubbeleh, nobody is claiming that these elections were good for the left relative to the last elections in these regions, only that they're a bounce-back from the left's 2018-2019 nadir. Nobody is claiming that the left is returning to Renzi-honeymoon levels or even to its relative strength in the 1994-2006 period. Relax.

> So much a defender of the traditional family that she lives with her partner but they are not married or anything

I was reading about Giorgia Meloni on Wikipedia the other day and this is true of her too. And of course Salvini has been through three domestic partners since divorcing his wife in 2010. Lots of hypocrisy on this one very specific "lifestyle" issue on the Italian hard right.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

> So much a defender of the traditional family that she lives with her partner but they are not married or anything

I was reading about Giorgia Meloni on Wikipedia the other day and this is true of her too. And of course Salvini has been through three domestic partners since divorcing his wife in 2010. Lots of hypocrisy on this one very specific "lifestyle" issue on the Italian hard right.

Yeah lol and don't even get started on Berlusconi! Bunga Bunga.

[palandio]

LIGURIA
Liguria I think will come back to its status as Red Region Lite. It's actually pretty urban. Genoa = 1/3 of Liguria.
Toti won by so much because his list slamdunked in the city of Genoa for I don't know what reason. It was unexpected.
La Spezia 2019: Right 45 - Left 35
Savona 2019: Right 41.5 - Left 38
Genoa 2019: Left 39.5 - Right 39

La Spezia 2020: Toti +4
Savona 2020: Toti +1
At which point you would expect Genoa to be say Sansa +5 or so and instead it was Toti +8. Meh.

I think Genoa will snap back to pretty left-leaning at the next national election.

Regarding the comparison of results in Genoa (city) 2019 and 2020:
Toti overperformed the 2019 Lega+FdI+FI numbers by 12.6 points. Overperformance is actually relatively evenly distributed throughout the city, but looking the results by unità urbanistica you can still see some patterns.

The strongest overperformances:

Bavari	+18.0	village in the East
Puggia	+16.8	bourgeois quarter on the Eastern coast
Apparizione	+16.6	village in the East
Foce	+15.9	relatively bourgeois, east of center
Lido	+15.9	bourgeois quarter on the Eastern coast
S. Giuliano	+15.5	bourgeois quarter on the Eastern coast
Quartara	+15.5	bourgeois quarter on the Eastern coast
Quezzi	+15.2	high-density working class periphery around old village
Albaro	+15.2	bourgeois quarter on the Eastern coast

The weakest overperformances:

Morego	+2.5	peripheral village near the Polcevera valley
Campi	+6.0	industrial area near the Polcevera mouth
Borzoli Est	+7.4	village turned working class periphery on a hill between Western coast and Polcevera valley
Borzoli Ovest	+8.0	"
S. Quirico	+8.5	village in the Polcevera valley
Voltri	+8.5	working-class town on the far Western coast, left-wing stronghold
Pré	+9.1	immigrant-heavy quarter in the medieval/renaissance center
Palmaro	+9.2	working-class quarter on the far Western coast
Sestri	+9.5	working-class city-in-a-city on the Western coast, left-wing stronghold
Bolzaneto	+9.8	working-class town in the Polcevera valley
Multedo	+10.0	quarter on the Western coast
Molo	+10.0	immigrant-heavy quarter in the medieval/renaissance center

Compared to 2019 it seems that some of Genoa's bourgeois quarters have reverted to a very traditional pattern.

On the other hand there seems to be no evidence that many 2019 M5S voters (the M5S vote in Genoa was almost perfectly negatively correlated to income) went towards the Right in 2020. Which might come a bit as a surprise, because after all at the 2019 European elections the M5S was still governing with the Lega.

Like you I think that Genoa voted so far for the Right this one time (because of the bridge?) and that Genoa will revert to a more left-wing course at the national level. I would be cautious though to put Genoa into the same basket as Milan, Bologna, etc. Genoa is very much a post-industrial city with different issues from other big cities.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Like you I think that Genoa voted so far for the Right this one time (because of the bridge?) and that Genoa will revert to a more left-wing course at the national level. I would be cautious though to put Genoa into the same basket as Milan, Bologna, etc. Genoa is very much a post-industrial city with different issues from other big cities.

Well yes Genoa is different from other big cities but is still prone to the left-wing lately as all big cities, although I reckon with a different internal geography.
La Spezia (and Savona) are also industrial and this presumably contributes to them being less bad than most for the left lately.
I should do a "La Spezia lay of the land" one day tbh.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Okay I really don't get the argument for "no" on the referendum. Anything more than 300 representatives or so seems absurd. What's the point of having all of them?

[Antonio the Sixth]

To continue the points Battista and Palandio made, here's a comparison of Toti's scores in 2015 and 2020:
+22 in Imperia province (43% to 65%)
+19 in Savona province (40% to 59%)
+24 in Genoa city (28% to 52%)
+22 in Genoa province, city excluded (37% to 59%)
+18 in La Spezia province (33% to 51%)

So yeah, here as well there's been a stronger trend in Genoa proper than anywhere else. My guess would be that this was all about the bridge reconstruction, yeah. It's really frustrating, but I guess not particularly surprising. Oh well. Glad to see that La Spezia is still the most left-wing province! I guess this does bode reasonably well for the future.

Okay I really don't get the argument for "no" on the referendum. Anything more than 300 representatives or so seems absurd. What's the point of having all of them?

300 representatives can't possibly "represent" jack sh*t in a country of 60 million inhabitants. I mean, granted, it's not like 600 representatives were doing a great job to begin with, but this will just make it worse.

[MRCVzla]

Summary of elected Regional Councils (compared to the 2015 results)
Veneto
Centre-right: 42 seats (+8; in 2015, including Tosi-led centre list)
Centre-left: 9 seats (-3)
M5S: 0 (-5)

Liguria
Centre-right: 19 seats (+3)
Centre-left+:M5S 12 seats (-3; in 2015, Csx, M5S and Rete a Sinistra -today Linea Condivisa- ran separately)

Tuscany
Centre-left: 25 seats (=)
Centre-right: 14 seats (+5; in 2015 LN/FdI and FI ran separately)
M5S: 2 seats (-3)
Left-wing (Fattori): 0 (-2)

Marche
Centre-right: 20 seats (+13; in 2015 LN/FdI and FI/Area Popolare ran separately)
Centre-left: 9 seats (-10)
M5S: 2 seats (-3)

Campania
Centre-left: 33 seats (+2)
Centre-right: 11 seats (-2)
M5S: 7 seats (=)

Apulia
Centre-left: 28 seats (-2)
Centre-right: 18 seats (+5)
M5S: 5 seats (-3)

Total coalitions (six regions, compared with 2015 results):
Centre-right: 124 seats (+32)
Centre-left: 114 seats (-12)
M5S: 18 seats* (-18)
Left-wing: 0 (-2)

*M5S elected 2 seats in Liguria (-4 respect 2015) as part of the centre-left coalition.

Total main national parties (six regions, including elected regional candidates):
PD: 69/256
Lega: 39/256
FdI: 31/256
M5S: 18/256
FI: 12/256
IV: 6 (4 in Campania, 2 in Tuscany)
UDC: 2 (Campania and Marche)
Europa Verde: 2 (Veneto and Campania)
+Europa: 1 (Campania)

Zaia' civic list got 24 seats in Veneto (plus the President seat), Toti' Cambiamo list got 8 seats in Liguria (plus the President seat), De Luca' civic list got 6 seats in Campania (12 parties got seats inside of the coalition).

Aosta Valley (compared to current Regional Council)
Lega 11 (+4)
Valdostan Union 7 (+2)
Civic Progressive Project (PD, Rete Civica and Verdi) 7 (+5)
Valdostan Alliance-Stella Alpina-Italia Viva 4 (-5)
United Aosta Valley (Mouv'-Ensemble) 3 (=)
For the Autonomy 3 (new)

Centre-right (FI-FdI) and Rinascimento lists came shortly to surpass the local threshold and failed to gain seats.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Campania
Centre-left: 33 seats (+2)
Centre-right: 11 seats (-2)
M5S: 7 seats (=)

....so De Luca's coalition somehow got a smaller share of the seats than his share of the vote. What kind of imbecile wrote this electoral law??

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Okay I really don't get the argument for "no" on the referendum. Anything more than 300 representatives or so seems absurd. What's the point of having all of them?

300 representatives can't possibly "represent" jack sh*t in a country of 60 million inhabitants. I mean, granted, it's not like 600 representatives were doing a great job to begin with, but this will just make it worse.

That's 1/200,000 residents. Which is absolutely fine. I'd target one rep per 200,000-500,000 people as ideal in most countries. Places like the UK, with more than one MP/100,000 people are just absurd.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

To continue the points Battista and Palandio made, here's a comparison of Toti's scores in 2015 and 2020:
+22 in Imperia province (43% to 65%)
+19 in Savona province (40% to 59%)
+24 in Genoa city (28% to 52%)
+22 in Genoa province, city excluded (37% to 59%)
+18 in La Spezia province (33% to 51%)

So yeah, here as well there's been a stronger trend in Genoa proper than anywhere else. My guess would be that this was all about the bridge reconstruction, yeah. It's really frustrating, but I guess not particularly surprising. Oh well. Glad to see that La Spezia is still the most left-wing province! I guess this does bode reasonably well for the future.

I don't know what that bodes for the future to be honest except that I am happy because, you know, I live in La Spezia. In theory one would want Genoa to be the most left-wing because Genoa is where the most votes are found.

One thing I had not mentioned is that it's pretty telling (and sad) that the ciTy cEnTre bOurGeoIs precincts where as I said Toti won were very weak for Yes (and at least one voted No), while Communist Pitelli where as I said Sansa got a landslide were >75% for Yes (and the same can be said for another village, Biassa, precinct no. 48).

[Filuwaúrdjan]

That's 1/200,000 residents. Which is absolutely fine. I'd target one rep per 200,000-500,000 people as ideal in most countries. Places like the UK, with more than one MP/100,000 people are just absurd.

Italy and Great Britain do not have federal systems of government. Both countries also draw their ministries from the legislature.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Okay I really don't get the argument for "no" on the referendum. Anything more than 300 representatives or so seems absurd. What's the point of having all of them?

300 representatives can't possibly "represent" jack sh*t in a country of 60 million inhabitants. I mean, granted, it's not like 600 representatives were doing a great job to begin with, but this will just make it worse.

That's 1/200,000 residents. Which is absolutely fine. I'd target one rep per 200,000-500,000 people as ideal in most countries. Places like the UK, with more than one MP/100,000 people are just absurd.

You know that's funny, seeing Blairite of all posters taking the muh rash populist position. If GMac comes here too arguing for Yes we may as well lock the thread lmao.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Okay I really don't get the argument for "no" on the referendum. Anything more than 300 representatives or so seems absurd. What's the point of having all of them?

300 representatives can't possibly "represent" jack sh*t in a country of 60 million inhabitants. I mean, granted, it's not like 600 representatives were doing a great job to begin with, but this will just make it worse.

That's 1/200,000 residents. Which is absolutely fine. I'd target one rep per 200,000-500,000 people as ideal in most countries. Places like the UK, with more than one MP/100,000 people are just absurd.

You know that's funny, seeing Blairite of all posters taking the muh rash populist position. If GMac comes here too arguing for No we may as well lock the thread lmao.

I don't really care about whether or not the crazies in the five star movement agree with me for whatever reason. What I do care about is creating an efficient, functional legislature and imo that's usually easier when there are fewer members.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

That's 1/200,000 residents. Which is absolutely fine. I'd target one rep per 200,000-500,000 people as ideal in most countries. Places like the UK, with more than one MP/100,000 people are just absurd.

Italy and Great Britain do not have federal systems of government. Both countries also draw their ministries from the legislature.

True. That doesn't mean the extra hundred backbenchers actually help the government do anything.

[Hatman 🍁]

Not surprising that a neoliberal would oppose effective local representation. One rep for 500,000 people? lololol

[Former President tack50]

Eh Italy is fine with 400 MPs. It's not like that is an insanely small number. Maybe Italy might need slightly more than that (I'd personally go with 450 or 500) but it's not that small.

Especially when Italy uses Party List PR and presumably individual MPs are essencially mindless drones. You could replace the parliament with as little as 7 MPs (the 7 party leaders from each of the main parties) if you introduced weighted voting.

And like others said, unicameralism would be a plus for Italy, as the Senate is very much redundant (now if it got elected by region then sure). At the very least the Senate should not be able to veto a PM (I am fine with it vetoing bills though).

[Antonio the Sixth]

Okay I really don't get the argument for "no" on the referendum. Anything more than 300 representatives or so seems absurd. What's the point of having all of them?

300 representatives can't possibly "represent" jack sh*t in a country of 60 million inhabitants. I mean, granted, it's not like 600 representatives were doing a great job to begin with, but this will just make it worse.

That's 1/200,000 residents. Which is absolutely fine. I'd target one rep per 200,000-500,000 people as ideal in most countries. Places like the UK, with more than one MP/100,000 people are just absurd.

You know that's funny, seeing Blairite of all posters taking the muh rash populist position. If GMac comes here too arguing for No we may as well lock the thread lmao.

He is an avowed neoliberal, the "Downsizing Democracy" ideology par excellence. I'm not surprised.

But no, 1 MP for 200K people is not nearly enough. Even 1 per 100K is not enough. The ideal would be 1 every 1000 or so (which is of course impracticable in Italy, but there's no excuse for not having 600-700 MPs at the very least).

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

Okay I really don't get the argument for "no" on the referendum. Anything more than 300 representatives or so seems absurd. What's the point of having all of them?

300 representatives can't possibly "represent" jack sh*t in a country of 60 million inhabitants. I mean, granted, it's not like 600 representatives were doing a great job to begin with, but this will just make it worse.

That's 1/200,000 residents. Which is absolutely fine. I'd target one rep per 200,000-500,000 people as ideal in most countries. Places like the UK, with more than one MP/100,000 people are just absurd.

You know that's funny, seeing Blairite of all posters taking the muh rash populist position. If GMac comes here too arguing for No we may as well lock the thread lmao.

He is an avowed neoliberal, the "Downsizing Democracy" ideology par excellence. I'm not surprised.

But no, 1 MP for 200K people is not nearly enough. Even 1 per 100K is not enough. The ideal would be 1 every 1000 or so (which is of course impracticable in Italy, but there's no excuse for not having 600-700 MPs at the very least).

I mean I get why you are not surprised, but I found that ironic because I guess the closest Italian equivalent to neoliberals is the muh city centre bobo "PD is the party of ZTL's" crowd and they went pretty hard for No.