Economic anxiety is not why Trump was elected.

[ProudModerate2]

... I would have been more charitable toward Hillary had she not made the "deplorables" comment, but that was the comment that, as far as I'm concerned, revealed her lack of empathy for these folks.

Her "deplorables" comment did not target the "folks" you are describing, so get off your high-horse about this. It fits into your narrative, so you and many other moro*s on the right, use it. Her deplorables comment were those racist, bigoted, hate-loving individuals and had nothing to do with someone's level of wealth, education or employment-type.

We can call people like this, deplorables, assho*es, whatever .... what difference does it make?
What would you refer to these people as? ..... "very fine people (on both sides)"?

[Free Bird]

Yep, I guess the whole states of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio, and Florida suddenly became racist after voting for Barack Obama twice.

[forgotten manatee]

Not every Trump voter was in a tough economic situation[/u] and even some that are are not opening to vote Democratic in 2020 but his fake brand of populism do explain swings towards him in places like the Iron Range and driftless area. So called left wingers need to stop shaming Trump voters, which only plays into the GOP's hands by keeping this country as culturally divided as it is today.

A thoughtful post.

The economically anxious that were most driven to Trump were those who were/are employed in fossil fuel industries, and in other industries that were specifically targeted by Obama-Era environmental regulations.  The energy boom in PA is one reason PA swung to Trump; energy workers in fracking industries were not at all certain that more Obama environmentalism in the form of HRC would lead to a reduction in THEIR jobs.

I'm certainly not down with all of Trump's environmental policies, and he seems to get his jollies in rolling THOSE policies back, but some of them were, IMO, not defensible.  Holding up the Keystone Pipeline was not defensible; that pipeline was going to be built by someone, so why not us?  Coal was/is a dying industry, but the Obama-Era policies toward coal miners (and, to some degree, toward oil and gas workers) came off as an assault against these workers' way of life.  And the attitude of many liberals was to view these WORKERS as scum, and not just the oil execs and mine owners.  

Would you be "economically anxious" if the Presidential candidate of one of the major parties (for many, the one they had ancestral allegiance to) said, from the stump, that she looked forward to seeing lots of coal miners out of work?  That statement, more than the "Deplorables" comment, was utter poison for Hillary, but it gave hardworking Americans in the fracking industry in PA (as well as the coal miners) just exactly what was in that sewer that passes for her soul.  She cared not one whit for these hardworking folks and loathed them for what they did.  I can imagine every fracking worker listening to her statement on coal miners and wonder what she had in store for me and my coworkers.  And before anyone moralizes about Trump's diseeased soul, my "hypocritical religiosity", and such other drivel, put yourself in the shoes of these coal miners, fracking workers, and oil field workers and imaging what their assessment of Hillary's spiritual condition might be.

That is a blatant lie. You are a liar.

While completely ignoring the fact that she wanted to retrain coal miners instead.

As Bill Maher once said, having to go down into a dark, toxic hole in the ground like your daddy and grandaddy isn't progress across generations. Hillary Clinton and other Democrats wanted to help retrain people so that they don't have to go back into the dark, toxic, hole in the ground. But liars like Fuzzy Bear would rather just make siht up or twist words around than actually acknowledge this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksIXqxpQNt0

I've replayed the tape and I'll partially back down on the "looking forward" part.  She did not explicitly say this, but her enthusiasm for eliminating coal jobs and coal mining is unrestrained.  She was bound and determined to put these folks out of their coal mining jobs.  And, again, what would the folks working in the Fracking industry say?

I'm 61 years old.  Many of the miners in question are 45 and up.  What can they be retrained for?  More importantly, where can they do this work?  Sure, they can come to Florida and be "retrained" for clean manufacturing jobs at $18/hour.  Will they be able to afford a $150,000 home (which is on the low end of the middle class)?  Will they be able to afford $1,200/month rent?  Assuming they could move out of state, sell their homes (assuming they own them and someone would pay "market value" for them), would they be able to support a family somewhere else on TWO (2) "retraining" incomes?  Perhaps in some parts of Florida, yes, but not in the places where industry is rising the fastest.  Is metro-Atlanta or the Research Triangle of NC any cheaper?

And once they do that, how much age discrimination will these folks face in the job market?  How about their pre-existing medical conditions; will they be a real turnoff to these employers?  Of course, they can be retrained for culinary; how many hours a week does a line cook at the Olive Garden or Outback get, and at what rate of pay?

Hillary Clinton told these people that she would offer them a "settled-for" life, with no guarantees of a job after the "retraining", no economic plan for how they'll get through the training period, no assurances that any of these folks could actually complete the training successfully, and no assurances that they would not have to leave communities that they were well-rooted in.  She gave them lip service, and it was as sweet as lip service gets from her, but it was a consolation prize at best, and something not all of them could have.  There's a reason Walmart is the largest employer in WV.

I haven't even begun here to address the issue of just how the "retrainees" would economically survive during the retraining period.  There is evidence, however, as to what their actual prospects are:  http://beltmag.com/appalachia-coding-bootcamps/

The WV coal miners heard what they needed to hear.

The PA fracking workers drew the right conclusion as to what that meant for them.

I would have been more charitable toward Hillary had she not made the "deplorables" comment, but that was the comment that, as far as I'm concerned, revealed her lack of empathy for these folks.  Obama was actually a bit empathic when he commented about "clinging to their guns and their religion"; Hillary wasn't empathic at all.  All she could see was herself being the Green Queen of America, and she had to promise SOMETHING to those who'd be devastated by the "greening".  

You are so full of crap. She didn’t mean coal miners when she used the word ‘deplorables,’ she meant white nationalist racists, the type that cheer when Mexicans are blanket labeled as rapists and criminals and clap when their piece of garbage racist candidate propagates the lie that the first black president was not a real American citizen. You’re going on ignore, pal.

[Indy Texas]

Not every Trump voter was in a tough economic situation[/u] and even some that are are not opening to vote Democratic in 2020 but his fake brand of populism do explain swings towards him in places like the Iron Range and driftless area. So called left wingers need to stop shaming Trump voters, which only plays into the GOP's hands by keeping this country as culturally divided as it is today.

A thoughtful post.

The economically anxious that were most driven to Trump were those who were/are employed in fossil fuel industries, and in other industries that were specifically targeted by Obama-Era environmental regulations.  The energy boom in PA is one reason PA swung to Trump; energy workers in fracking industries were not at all certain that more Obama environmentalism in the form of HRC would lead to a reduction in THEIR jobs.

I'm certainly not down with all of Trump's environmental policies, and he seems to get his jollies in rolling THOSE policies back, but some of them were, IMO, not defensible.  Holding up the Keystone Pipeline was not defensible; that pipeline was going to be built by someone, so why not us?  Coal was/is a dying industry, but the Obama-Era policies toward coal miners (and, to some degree, toward oil and gas workers) came off as an assault against these workers' way of life.  And the attitude of many liberals was to view these WORKERS as scum, and not just the oil execs and mine owners.  

Would you be "economically anxious" if the Presidential candidate of one of the major parties (for many, the one they had ancestral allegiance to) said, from the stump, that she looked forward to seeing lots of coal miners out of work?  That statement, more than the "Deplorables" comment, was utter poison for Hillary, but it gave hardworking Americans in the fracking industry in PA (as well as the coal miners) just exactly what was in that sewer that passes for her soul.  She cared not one whit for these hardworking folks and loathed them for what they did.  I can imagine every fracking worker listening to her statement on coal miners and wonder what she had in store for me and my coworkers.  And before anyone moralizes about Trump's diseeased soul, my "hypocritical religiosity", and such other drivel, put yourself in the shoes of these coal miners, fracking workers, and oil field workers and imaging what their assessment of Hillary's spiritual condition might be.

That is a blatant lie. You are a liar.

While completely ignoring the fact that she wanted to retrain coal miners instead.

As Bill Maher once said, having to go down into a dark, toxic hole in the ground like your daddy and grandaddy isn't progress across generations. Hillary Clinton and other Democrats wanted to help retrain people so that they don't have to go back into the dark, toxic, hole in the ground. But liars like Fuzzy Bear would rather just make siht up or twist words around than actually acknowledge this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksIXqxpQNt0

I've replayed the tape and I'll partially back down on the "looking forward" part.  She did not explicitly say this, but her enthusiasm for eliminating coal jobs and coal mining is unrestrained.  She was bound and determined to put these folks out of their coal mining jobs.  And, again, what would the folks working in the Fracking industry say?

I'm 61 years old.  Many of the miners in question are 45 and up.  What can they be retrained for?  More importantly, where can they do this work?  Sure, they can come to Florida and be "retrained" for clean manufacturing jobs at $18/hour.  Will they be able to afford a $150,000 home (which is on the low end of the middle class)?  Will they be able to afford $1,200/month rent?  Assuming they could move out of state, sell their homes (assuming they own them and someone would pay "market value" for them), would they be able to support a family somewhere else on TWO (2) "retraining" incomes?  Perhaps in some parts of Florida, yes, but not in the places where industry is rising the fastest.  Is metro-Atlanta or the Research Triangle of NC any cheaper?

And once they do that, how much age discrimination will these folks face in the job market?  How about their pre-existing medical conditions; will they be a real turnoff to these employers?  Of course, they can be retrained for culinary; how many hours a week does a line cook at the Olive Garden or Outback get, and at what rate of pay?

Hillary Clinton told these people that she would offer them a "settled-for" life, with no guarantees of a job after the "retraining", no economic plan for how they'll get through the training period, no assurances that any of these folks could actually complete the training successfully, and no assurances that they would not have to leave communities that they were well-rooted in.  She gave them lip service, and it was as sweet as lip service gets from her, but it was a consolation prize at best, and something not all of them could have.  There's a reason Walmart is the largest employer in WV.

I haven't even begun here to address the issue of just how the "retrainees" would economically survive during the retraining period.  There is evidence, however, as to what their actual prospects are:  http://beltmag.com/appalachia-coding-bootcamps/

The WV coal miners heard what they needed to hear.

The PA fracking workers drew the right conclusion as to what that meant for them.

I would have been more charitable toward Hillary had she not made the "deplorables" comment, but that was the comment that, as far as I'm concerned, revealed her lack of empathy for these folks.  Obama was actually a bit empathic when he commented about "clinging to their guns and their religion"; Hillary wasn't empathic at all.  All she could see was herself being the Green Queen of America, and she had to promise SOMETHING to those who'd be devastated by the "greening".  

Fuzzy, their jobs are going to go away no matter what.

Look at this graph: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES1021210001

If Obama is to blame for net losses of coal jobs, why isn't Ronald Reagan also to blame? Or Bill Clinton?

Machines put more coal miners out of work over the past century than any "EPA bureaucrats" ever could, and will continue to do so.

The difference is that the Democratic Party believes people who are put out of work through no fault of their own (such as long-term technological changes) should be given help to find other work, and be guaranteed not to lose their health insurance or pensions.

Your party, the Republican Party, believes anyone who loses their job is a loser who didn't work hard enough and deserves nothing. They've offered them nothing except a false promise that as long as the rich coal mine stockholders can get their taxes cut as much as possible and as long as coal companies can dump as many tons of slurry into rivers and streams as they want, maybe they might get a job.

Mitch McConnell all but admitted that Republican policies won't bring miners' jobs back.

[here2view]

Not every Trump voter was in a tough economic situation[/u] and even some that are are not opening to vote Democratic in 2020 but his fake brand of populism do explain swings towards him in places like the Iron Range and driftless area. So called left wingers need to stop shaming Trump voters, which only plays into the GOP's hands by keeping this country as culturally divided as it is today.

A thoughtful post.

The economically anxious that were most driven to Trump were those who were/are employed in fossil fuel industries, and in other industries that were specifically targeted by Obama-Era environmental regulations.  The energy boom in PA is one reason PA swung to Trump; energy workers in fracking industries were not at all certain that more Obama environmentalism in the form of HRC would lead to a reduction in THEIR jobs.

I'm certainly not down with all of Trump's environmental policies, and he seems to get his jollies in rolling THOSE policies back, but some of them were, IMO, not defensible.  Holding up the Keystone Pipeline was not defensible; that pipeline was going to be built by someone, so why not us?  Coal was/is a dying industry, but the Obama-Era policies toward coal miners (and, to some degree, toward oil and gas workers) came off as an assault against these workers' way of life.  And the attitude of many liberals was to view these WORKERS as scum, and not just the oil execs and mine owners.  

Would you be "economically anxious" if the Presidential candidate of one of the major parties (for many, the one they had ancestral allegiance to) said, from the stump, that she looked forward to seeing lots of coal miners out of work?  That statement, more than the "Deplorables" comment, was utter poison for Hillary, but it gave hardworking Americans in the fracking industry in PA (as well as the coal miners) just exactly what was in that sewer that passes for her soul.  She cared not one whit for these hardworking folks and loathed them for what they did.  I can imagine every fracking worker listening to her statement on coal miners and wonder what she had in store for me and my coworkers.  And before anyone moralizes about Trump's diseeased soul, my "hypocritical religiosity", and such other drivel, put yourself in the shoes of these coal miners, fracking workers, and oil field workers and imaging what their assessment of Hillary's spiritual condition might be.

That is a blatant lie. You are a liar.

While completely ignoring the fact that she wanted to retrain coal miners instead.

As Bill Maher once said, having to go down into a dark, toxic hole in the ground like your daddy and grandaddy isn't progress across generations. Hillary Clinton and other Democrats wanted to help retrain people so that they don't have to go back into the dark, toxic, hole in the ground. But liars like Fuzzy Bear would rather just make siht up or twist words around than actually acknowledge this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksIXqxpQNt0

I've replayed the tape and I'll partially back down on the "looking forward" part.  She did not explicitly say this, but her enthusiasm for eliminating coal jobs and coal mining is unrestrained.  She was bound and determined to put these folks out of their coal mining jobs.  And, again, what would the folks working in the Fracking industry say?

I'm 61 years old.  Many of the miners in question are 45 and up.  What can they be retrained for?  More importantly, where can they do this work?  Sure, they can come to Florida and be "retrained" for clean manufacturing jobs at $18/hour.  Will they be able to afford a $150,000 home (which is on the low end of the middle class)?  Will they be able to afford $1,200/month rent?  Assuming they could move out of state, sell their homes (assuming they own them and someone would pay "market value" for them), would they be able to support a family somewhere else on TWO (2) "retraining" incomes?  Perhaps in some parts of Florida, yes, but not in the places where industry is rising the fastest.  Is metro-Atlanta or the Research Triangle of NC any cheaper?

And once they do that, how much age discrimination will these folks face in the job market?  How about their pre-existing medical conditions; will they be a real turnoff to these employers?  Of course, they can be retrained for culinary; how many hours a week does a line cook at the Olive Garden or Outback get, and at what rate of pay?

Hillary Clinton told these people that she would offer them a "settled-for" life, with no guarantees of a job after the "retraining", no economic plan for how they'll get through the training period, no assurances that any of these folks could actually complete the training successfully, and no assurances that they would not have to leave communities that they were well-rooted in.  She gave them lip service, and it was as sweet as lip service gets from her, but it was a consolation prize at best, and something not all of them could have.  There's a reason Walmart is the largest employer in WV.

I haven't even begun here to address the issue of just how the "retrainees" would economically survive during the retraining period.  There is evidence, however, as to what their actual prospects are:  http://beltmag.com/appalachia-coding-bootcamps/

The WV coal miners heard what they needed to hear.

The PA fracking workers drew the right conclusion as to what that meant for them.

I would have been more charitable toward Hillary had she not made the "deplorables" comment, but that was the comment that, as far as I'm concerned, revealed her lack of empathy for these folks.  Obama was actually a bit empathic when he commented about "clinging to their guns and their religion"; Hillary wasn't empathic at all.  All she could see was herself being the Green Queen of America, and she had to promise SOMETHING to those who'd be devastated by the "greening".  

You are so full of crap. She didn’t mean coal miners when she used the word ‘deplorables,’ she meant white nationalist racists, the type that cheer when Mexicans are blanket labeled as rapists and criminals and clap when their piece of garbage racist candidate propagates the lie that the first black president was not a real American citizen. You’re going on ignore, pal.

This x100. And newsflash, those jobs aren't coming back. The outcome for these people is not good, unfortunately, whichever way you look at it. But they would be much better off having gone through retraining for other careers than holding on to a dying industry. When I'm your age (61) coal jobs will be either 1) gone, or 2) a lot less widespread than they are now, because society moves forward constantly - whether you or I like it or not. You and those in WV refuse to accept that.

[Indy Texas]

This is what the future of coal mining looks like: an open pit somewhere in Wyoming with a bunch of self-driving trucks and excavators being operated remotely by a handful of people.

The kind of mining that is done in West Virginia and Kentucky is economically unsustainable and that way of life is going the way of the dodo, whether the people who live there like it or not.

Hillary Clinton tried to tell them hard truths and give them help preparing for them.

Donald Trump offered them feel-good lies.

They chose the high fructose corn syrup that will kill them over the bitter medicine that could have helped them.

[YE]

Would some form of UBI work for coal miners who have lost their jobs due to coal industry work? I’m normally staunchly opposed to this but for workers near retirement (where retraining them would be useless), it seems like the most viable solution.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

This is what the future of coal mining looks like: an open pit somewhere in Wyoming with a bunch of self-driving trucks and excavators being operated remotely by a handful of people.

The kind of mining that is done in West Virginia and Kentucky is economically unsustainable and that way of life is going the way of the dodo, whether the people who live there like it or not.

Hillary Clinton tried to tell them hard truths and give them help preparing for them.

Donald Trump offered them feel-good lies.

They chose the high fructose corn syrup that will kill them over the bitter medicine that could have helped them.

Trump was offering them friendlier policies toward the industry they worked in.  He wasn't lying there.  How wise those policies were/are is another issue, but his policies would be better for THEIR jobs in the short run, and their choice was not rational.

Yes, these folks passed on Hillary's "Tough Love".  Here's a secret:  "Tough Love" is tough on the lover.  How tough were these policies on Hillary?  They were policies that benefitted educational establishments and "green" industries at the expense of coal miners who could not necessarily support themselves through the "training period" and were by no means certain to find a job where they lived.  Of course; they didn't feel the (tough) love!  They didn't see the love in being forced to move from the only place they've ever known for a place where their chances of (A) being employed in their "new career" or (B) just flat-out making ends meet at a below-modest level.   ("People Are Portable" was the unspoken theme of the Clinton campaign in WV in 2016.)

The coal miners are America's throwaway people.  They have every right to be bitter at America welcoming in foreigners at liberal rates while they're being thrown away as useless.  Bill Clinton used to say, "We don't have a person to waste!", but his spouse is bent on showing America otherwise.

[ProudModerate2]

This is what the future of coal mining looks like: an open pit somewhere in Wyoming with a bunch of self-driving trucks and excavators being operated remotely by a handful of people.

The kind of mining that is done in West Virginia and Kentucky is economically unsustainable and that way of life is going the way of the dodo, whether the people who live there like it or not.

Hillary Clinton tried to tell them hard truths and give them help preparing for them.

Donald Trump offered them feel-good lies.

They chose the high fructose corn syrup that will kill them over the bitter medicine that could have helped them.

Trump was offering them friendlier policies toward the industry they worked in.  He wasn't lying there.  How wise those policies were/are is another issue, but his policies would be better for THEIR jobs in the short run, and their choice was not rational.

Yes, these folks passed on Hillary's "Tough Love".  Here's a secret:  "Tough Love" is tough on the lover.  How tough were these policies on Hillary?  They were policies that benefitted educational establishments and "green" industries at the expense of coal miners who could not necessarily support themselves through the "training period" and were by no means certain to find a job where they lived.  Of course; they didn't feel the (tough) love!  They didn't see the love in being forced to move from the only place they've ever known for a place where their chances of (A) being employed in their "new career" or (B) just flat-out making ends meet at a below-modest level.   ("People Are Portable" was the unspoken theme of the Clinton campaign in WV in 2016.)

The coal miners are America's throwaway people.  They have every right to be bitter at America welcoming in foreigners at liberal rates while they're being thrown away as useless.  Bill Clinton used to say, "We don't have a person to waste!", but his spouse is bent on showing America otherwise.

Fuzzy,
How ever you want to steer the conversation, you are missing the point many people are trying to convey to you ...
The coal industry is dying and will soon be gone (next 50 years I suspect). This is the real world today ... reality.

The entire planet (the developed countries, especially) are all going to greener ways of producing energy. The old ways pollute our rivers, environment and make people and other living animals sick.
Hell, the coal these individuals in West Virginia breath-in make them sick. Lung, throat, nasal and sinus sickness (and cancer) are prevalent in this industry.
You talk like "green industries" are evil, when it's just the opposite (coal is evil ... and I'm not talking about the coal miners themselves).

In all honesty, you are talking like the cartoon that was circulated in the past, where we need to hold on to manufacturing VCR recorders/players. Now how silly is that?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Not every Trump voter was in a tough economic situation[/u] and even some that are are not opening to vote Democratic in 2020 but his fake brand of populism do explain swings towards him in places like the Iron Range and driftless area. So called left wingers need to stop shaming Trump voters, which only plays into the GOP's hands by keeping this country as culturally divided as it is today.

A thoughtful post.

The economically anxious that were most driven to Trump were those who were/are employed in fossil fuel industries, and in other industries that were specifically targeted by Obama-Era environmental regulations.  The energy boom in PA is one reason PA swung to Trump; energy workers in fracking industries were not at all certain that more Obama environmentalism in the form of HRC would lead to a reduction in THEIR jobs.

I'm certainly not down with all of Trump's environmental policies, and he seems to get his jollies in rolling THOSE policies back, but some of them were, IMO, not defensible.  Holding up the Keystone Pipeline was not defensible; that pipeline was going to be built by someone, so why not us?  Coal was/is a dying industry, but the Obama-Era policies toward coal miners (and, to some degree, toward oil and gas workers) came off as an assault against these workers' way of life.  And the attitude of many liberals was to view these WORKERS as scum, and not just the oil execs and mine owners. 

Would you be "economically anxious" if the Presidential candidate of one of the major parties (for many, the one they had ancestral allegiance to) said, from the stump, that she looked forward to seeing lots of coal miners out of work?  That statement, more than the "Deplorables" comment, was utter poison for Hillary, but it gave hardworking Americans in the fracking industry in PA (as well as the coal miners) just exactly what was in that sewer that passes for her soul.  She cared not one whit for these hardworking folks and loathed them for what they did.  I can imagine every fracking worker listening to her statement on coal miners and wonder what she had in store for me and my coworkers.  And before anyone moralizes about Trump's diseeased soul, my "hypocritical religiosity", and such other drivel, put yourself in the shoes of these coal miners, fracking workers, and oil field workers and imaging what their assessment of Hillary's spiritual condition might be.

That is a blatant lie. You are a liar.

I mean she said it...

[ProudModerate2]

... The coal miners are America's throwaway people.  They have every right to be bitter at America welcoming in foreigners at liberal rates while they're being thrown away as useless.

What "foreigners at liberal rates" are you talking about?
Let me tell you something, if they are so bitter at "foreigners taking American jobs," I'm sure we can transport them all to Texas, California and other states where there is huge agricultural industries.
They can cultivate and gather our vegetables and fruits at the same very-low rate that many immigrants ("foreigners" as you put it) do. These people not only can sustain a living from it (very poor one at that), but also have some money left-over that they send back home to their loved ones.

This will be an easy employment transition for them, no special training will be required, and almost no "age discrimination" (as you also mentioned). Then we will see how easy and enjoyable these "bitter" people your describe, like their new jobs that they are "entitled to" over foreigners having (stealing) them.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

This is what the future of coal mining looks like: an open pit somewhere in Wyoming with a bunch of self-driving trucks and excavators being operated remotely by a handful of people.

The kind of mining that is done in West Virginia and Kentucky is economically unsustainable and that way of life is going the way of the dodo, whether the people who live there like it or not.

Hillary Clinton tried to tell them hard truths and give them help preparing for them.

Donald Trump offered them feel-good lies.

They chose the high fructose corn syrup that will kill them over the bitter medicine that could have helped them.

Trump was offering them friendlier policies toward the industry they worked in.  He wasn't lying there.  How wise those policies were/are is another issue, but his policies would be better for THEIR jobs in the short run, and their choice was not rational.

Yes, these folks passed on Hillary's "Tough Love".  Here's a secret:  "Tough Love" is tough on the lover.  How tough were these policies on Hillary?  They were policies that benefitted educational establishments and "green" industries at the expense of coal miners who could not necessarily support themselves through the "training period" and were by no means certain to find a job where they lived.  Of course; they didn't feel the (tough) love!  They didn't see the love in being forced to move from the only place they've ever known for a place where their chances of (A) being employed in their "new career" or (B) just flat-out making ends meet at a below-modest level.   ("People Are Portable" was the unspoken theme of the Clinton campaign in WV in 2016.)

The coal miners are America's throwaway people.  They have every right to be bitter at America welcoming in foreigners at liberal rates while they're being thrown away as useless.  Bill Clinton used to say, "We don't have a person to waste!", but his spouse is bent on showing America otherwise.

Fuzzy,
How ever you want to steer the conversation, you are missing the point many people are trying to convey to you ...
The coal industry is dying and will soon be gone (next 50 years I suspect). This is the real world today ... reality.

The entire planet (the developed countries, especially) are all going to greener ways of producing energy. The old ways pollute our rivers, environment and make people and other living animals sick.
Hell, the coal these individuals in West Virginia breath-in make them sick. Lung, throat, nasal and sinus sickness (and cancer) are prevalent in this industry.
You talk like "green industries" are evil, when it's just the opposite (coal is evil ... and I'm not talking about the coal miners themselves).

In all honesty, you are talking like the cartoon that was circulated in the past, where we need to hold on to manufacturing VCR recorders/players. Now how silly is that?

Oh, I get that.  If I were a coal miner, I just couldn't wait to forego a union job to work at Walmart.  Especially if my local Walmart went "green".

Trump promised the coal miners a reprieve, and he's delivered as much as possible.  That's better for them than Hillary telling them to go to Special Ed and train for a job at 1/2 your current pay that you'll have to leave home for.

Is that not really the deal here for the coal miners?

I've been critical here of retraining.  I've been waiting for folks to come up and point out some stellar successes of the concept to counter my assertions.  I'm still waiting.  Open-mindedly waiting, by the way; I know coal mining is as high risk a job as it gets.  Can someone show me a stunning success of retraining on a group basis somewhere?

[krazen1211]

Millions of voters fled the sinking ship and came into the GOP to support Donald Trump due to the fact that Donald Trump is simply a great and amazing person and would be a great and amazing President.

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

... The coal miners are America's throwaway people.  They have every right to be bitter at America welcoming in foreigners at liberal rates while they're being thrown away as useless.

What "foreigners at liberal rates" are you talking about?
Let me tell you something, if they are so bitter at "foreigners taking American jobs," I'm sure we can transport them all to Texas, California and other states where there is huge agricultural industries.
They can cultivate and gather our vegetables and fruits at the same very-low rate that many immigrants ("foreigners" as you put it) do. These people not only can sustain a living from it (very poor one at that), but also have some money left-over that they send back home to their loved ones.

This will be an easy employment transition for them, no special training will be required, and almost no "age discrimination" (as you also mentioned). Then we will see how easy and enjoyable these "bitter" people your describe, like their new jobs that they are "entitled to" over foreigners having (stealing) them.

This would fulfill your desire to punish Trump supporters in as large numbers at one time as possible.  But if push came to shove, the number of these folks that would do that if necessary would shock you.  Unlike much of Atlas, these folks are up for hard, dirty work.

[ProudModerate2]

Millions of voters fled the sinking ship and came into the GOP to support Donald Trump due to the fact that Donald Trump is simply a great and amazing person and would be a great and amazing President.

Go away, you are a troll.

[ProudModerate2]

... The coal miners are America's throwaway people.  They have every right to be bitter at America welcoming in foreigners at liberal rates while they're being thrown away as useless.

What "foreigners at liberal rates" are you talking about?
Let me tell you something, if they are so bitter at "foreigners taking American jobs," I'm sure we can transport them all to Texas, California and other states where there is huge agricultural industries.
They can cultivate and gather our vegetables and fruits at the same very-low rate that many immigrants ("foreigners" as you put it) do. These people not only can sustain a living from it (very poor one at that), but also have some money left-over that they send back home to their loved ones.

This will be an easy employment transition for them, no special training will be required, and almost no "age discrimination" (as you also mentioned). Then we will see how easy and enjoyable these "bitter" people your describe, like their new jobs that they are "entitled to" over foreigners having (stealing) them.

This would fulfill your desire to punish Trump supporters in as large numbers at one time as possible.

You are deflecting (again).
The only reason I brought it up is because YOU are the one who described them as "bitter" people that "foreigners" are taking their jobs.
In any case, I still would like you to answer what ""foreigners at liberal rates" are you talking about? What does that mean?

[Fuzzy Bear Loves Christian Missionaries]

Millions of voters fled the sinking ship and came into the GOP to support Donald Trump due to the fact that Donald Trump is simply a great and amazing person and would be a great and amazing President.

Go away, you are a troll.

You must be the least fun poster here not to appreciate the comic relief.

[Beet]

I'm not going to fly in here with the magical solution for coal miners, but first, if we admit that, apart from jobs, it's an industry in long term decline and it's not good for new, young workers to sign up for coal mining as a lifetime career, we should first of all get young folks jobs in different industries.

If these young folks are willing to move, then they should move. If moving would be traumatic, I think the government should set up something to sustain their communities via providing an incentive (for a competitive company to move there and employ people). Yes, I know this violates the shibboleth of picking winners and losers, but here the government would be picking a community, rather than an industry or company, and it can successfully do this.

What that leaves is the older workers who can't be retrained for similar-paying or fulfilling jobs. During the New Deal, the government bought farm produce under I believe the Agricultural Adjustment Act at above market prices and just destroyed it, or paid farmers not to farm. The act was so successful that it is still law today. I don't see why we can't have an Agricultural Adjustment Act for the coal industry. Pay coal miners to mine at above market prices, then destroy the coal, or pay coal miners not to mine and just let them buy off their own retirements. At the same time move towards renewable and environmentally friendly energy. Just my 2c.

[ProudModerate2]

Millions of voters fled the sinking ship and came into the GOP to support Donald Trump due to the fact that Donald Trump is simply a great and amazing person and would be a great and amazing President.

Go away, you are a troll.

You must be the least fun poster here not to appreciate the comic relief.

Trust me, I laughed at it also.

[krazen1211]

Yep, I guess the whole states of Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio, and Florida suddenly became racist after voting for Barack Obama twice.

Millions of voters who voted for Obama changed over and voted for Donald Trump so that President Donald Trump could deal with white liberals.

[Alabama_Indy10]

Not every Trump voter was in a tough economic situation[/u] and even some that are are not opening to vote Democratic in 2020 but his fake brand of populism do explain swings towards him in places like the Iron Range and driftless area. So called left wingers need to stop shaming Trump voters, which only plays into the GOP's hands by keeping this country as culturally divided as it is today.

A thoughtful post.

The economically anxious that were most driven to Trump were those who were/are employed in fossil fuel industries, and in other industries that were specifically targeted by Obama-Era environmental regulations.  The energy boom in PA is one reason PA swung to Trump; energy workers in fracking industries were not at all certain that more Obama environmentalism in the form of HRC would lead to a reduction in THEIR jobs.

I'm certainly not down with all of Trump's environmental policies, and he seems to get his jollies in rolling THOSE policies back, but some of them were, IMO, not defensible.  Holding up the Keystone Pipeline was not defensible; that pipeline was going to be built by someone, so why not us?  Coal was/is a dying industry, but the Obama-Era policies toward coal miners (and, to some degree, toward oil and gas workers) came off as an assault against these workers' way of life.  And the attitude of many liberals was to view these WORKERS as scum, and not just the oil execs and mine owners. 

Would you be "economically anxious" if the Presidential candidate of one of the major parties (for many, the one they had ancestral allegiance to) said, from the stump, that she looked forward to seeing lots of coal miners out of work?  That statement, more than the "Deplorables" comment, was utter poison for Hillary, but it gave hardworking Americans in the fracking industry in PA (as well as the coal miners) just exactly what was in that sewer that passes for her soul.  She cared not one whit for these hardworking folks and loathed them for what they did.  I can imagine every fracking worker listening to her statement on coal miners and wonder what she had in store for me and my coworkers.  And before anyone moralizes about Trump's diseeased soul, my "hypocritical religiosity", and such other drivel, put yourself in the shoes of these coal miners, fracking workers, and oil field workers and imaging what their assessment of Hillary's spiritual condition might be.

That is a blatant lie. You are a liar.

I mean she said it...

[Pericles]

"Look, we have serious economic problems in many parts of our country. And Roland is absolutely right.  Instead of dividing people the way Donald Trump does, let's reunite around policies that will bring jobs and opportunities to all these underserved poor communities.

So for example, I'm the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key into coal country. Because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business, right?

And we're going to make it clear that we don't want to forget those people. Those people labored in those mines for generations, losing their health, often losing their lives to turn on our lights and power our factories.

Now we've got to move away from coal and all the other fossil fuels, but I don't want to move away from the people who did the best they could to produce the energy that we relied on.

So whether it's coal country or Indian country or poor urban areas, there is a lot of poverty in America.  We have gone backwards. We were moving in the right direction. In the '90s, more people were lifted out of poverty than any time in recent history.

Because of the terrible economic policies of the Bush administration, President Obama was left with the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, and people fell back into poverty because they lost jobs, they lost homes, they lost opportunities, and hope. 

So I am passionate about this, which is why I have put forward specific plans about how we incentivize more jobs, more investment in poor communities, and put people to work."-Hillary Clinton

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/may/10/context-hillary-clintons-comments-about-coal-jobs/

[Badger]

Does this explain the behaviour of the Obama-Trump voters?

Yes, I believe it does.

How? I'm genuinely curious.

Anyway, I'm not sure why it matters. People with problematic views make up the majority of the electorate since the beginning politics. No use being sad about it - you can't choose your own electorate?

Personally, I'm not sure it does. Yes, the overwhelming majority of trump voters voted out of racial resentment. However, arguing to swing voters who flipped from Obama to Trump or overwhelmingly doing so out of economic anxiety. So in short Trump voters in a whole voted out of racial resentment, but his Electoral College winning Coalition relied on Obama voters who supported him who were overwhelmingly driven by economic anxiety.

It is foolish to consider large number of Obama Trump voters, most of whom supported Obama twice, to be driven primarily at least by racial resentment.

[Badger]

I will add that it makes no sense to shame Trump voters for the racism. There are many Trump voters, who previously supported Obama, who clearly did not support Trump 90 + percent of the time because of racial resentment. These are the minority, but they are the voters needed for Trump's winning coalition.

The other 85 to 90% of trump voters literally have no shame on the issue of racial resentment, and will never vote otherwise.

[ProudModerate2]

This is what the future of coal mining looks like: an open pit somewhere in Wyoming with a bunch of self-driving trucks and excavators being operated remotely by a handful of people.

The kind of mining that is done in West Virginia and Kentucky is economically unsustainable and that way of life is going the way of the dodo, whether the people who live there like it or not.

Hillary Clinton tried to tell them hard truths and give them help preparing for them.

Donald Trump offered them feel-good lies.

They chose the high fructose corn syrup that will kill them over the bitter medicine that could have helped them.

Trump was offering them friendlier policies toward the industry they worked in.  He wasn't lying there.  How wise those policies were/are is another issue, but his policies would be better for THEIR jobs in the short run, and their choice was not rational.

Yes, these folks passed on Hillary's "Tough Love".  Here's a secret:  "Tough Love" is tough on the lover.  How tough were these policies on Hillary?  They were policies that benefitted educational establishments and "green" industries at the expense of coal miners who could not necessarily support themselves through the "training period" and were by no means certain to find a job where they lived.  Of course; they didn't feel the (tough) love!  They didn't see the love in being forced to move from the only place they've ever known for a place where their chances of (A) being employed in their "new career" or (B) just flat-out making ends meet at a below-modest level.   ("People Are Portable" was the unspoken theme of the Clinton campaign in WV in 2016.)

The coal miners are America's throwaway people.  They have every right to be bitter at America welcoming in foreigners at liberal rates while they're being thrown away as useless.  Bill Clinton used to say, "We don't have a person to waste!", but his spouse is bent on showing America otherwise.

Fuzzy,
How ever you want to steer the conversation, you are missing the point many people are trying to convey to you ...
The coal industry is dying and will soon be gone (next 50 years I suspect). This is the real world today ... reality.

The entire planet (the developed countries, especially) are all going to greener ways of producing energy. The old ways pollute our rivers, environment and make people and other living animals sick.
Hell, the coal these individuals in West Virginia breath-in make them sick. Lung, throat, nasal and sinus sickness (and cancer) are prevalent in this industry.
You talk like "green industries" are evil, when it's just the opposite (coal is evil ... and I'm not talking about the coal miners themselves).

In all honesty, you are talking like the cartoon that was circulated in the past, where we need to hold on to manufacturing VCR recorders/players. Now how silly is that?

Oh, I get that.  If I were a coal miner, I just couldn't wait to forego a union job to work at Walmart.  Especially if my local Walmart went "green".

Trump promised the coal miners a reprieve, and he's delivered as much as possible.  That's better for them than Hillary telling them to go to Special Ed and train for a job at 1/2 your current pay that you'll have to leave home for.

Is that not really the deal here for the coal miners?

I've been critical here of retraining.  I've been waiting for folks to come up and point out some stellar successes of the concept to counter my assertions.  I'm still waiting.  Open-mindedly waiting, by the way; I know coal mining is as high risk a job as it gets.  Can someone show me a stunning success of retraining on a group basis somewhere?

I don't know what the correct answer to helping these people is.
But we do need to find them an alternative, besides coal.
I huge statewide initiative in West Virginia needs to be devised, and maybe the federal government should help. I'm sure it will not be cheap, but I think it can be done.

They should not be forgotten people. But one thing I truly know is that trump, or anyone for that matter, needs to stop giving this industry a "reprieve." The end needs to start. Otherwise, you have a new generation of youngsters who follow in their dad's (coal) industry, and the endless cycle of problems never ends. Why on Earth would we want to give an industry a reprieve, when everyday that industry continues only pollutes the planet and makes people sick? How does that make any sense?