What's your favorite Christian heresy?
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  What's your favorite Christian heresy?
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Author Topic: What's your favorite Christian heresy?  (Read 4027 times)
Blue3
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« on: May 28, 2018, 05:55:09 PM »

What's your favorite Christian heresy? Which do you find most interesting?
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Harry
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2018, 06:09:51 PM »

Protestantism
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HillGoose
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2018, 07:16:39 PM »

Catharism? that was a thing right?
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Florian Geyer
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 07:48:21 PM »

My favorite offshoots of (at the time) mainstream Christianity are the followers of Anabaptist Thomas Müntzer and the Czech Taborites.
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°Leprechaun
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2018, 11:18:23 AM »

John Shelby Spong has some interesting ideas.
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WritOfCertiorari
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2018, 04:17:47 PM »


This, or miaphysitism.   
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
Ernest
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2018, 09:37:09 PM »

Adoptionism.  I find it the only credible way to have the crucifixion not be a farce. Jesus has to be both man and god for the crucifixion to make sense, yet he cannot be in full control of the Divine attributes during it or it becomes a farcical show.
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RFayette
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2018, 11:03:44 AM »

Not necessarily a heresy (though unlikely to be true, IMO), but universalism

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libertpaulian
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« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2018, 11:43:13 PM »

Not necessarily heretical, but hyper-grace.
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2018, 01:51:03 PM »


so edgy
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2018, 05:14:25 PM »

Calvinists keep getting accused of being closet Nestorians, so I guess Nestorianism.
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Blue3
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« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2020, 02:59:02 PM »

Not necessarily heretical, but hyper-grace.

What's hyper-grace?
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Blue3
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« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2020, 03:04:58 PM »

Blue3/Starwatcher:

Why
are
you
bumping
all
your
old
threads
today
?



Anyway, given that Waldensians were originally considered heretics, and that my sister attends an evangelical Methodist and Waldensian church, I'll go with them.

Just a few, because discussion in here has gotten kind of stale, in my opinion.
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PSOL
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« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2020, 08:20:11 PM »

Oh boy, mainly those going against the establishment and fighting for national and class liberation;

The early Christian Gnostics
Thomas Wycliffe and the Diggers
Jan Hus’s movement that first broke the Catholic Church’s hold before Protestantism became a thing
Anabaptism
Abolitionist movements in the American Black Churches and wider society
Some strains of Liberation Theology

The thing is a lot of these heresies became irrelevant as society developed and moved away from slavery and feudalism, with their traditions being supplanted by more secular mass movements.



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Big Abraham
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2020, 01:02:33 AM »

I think Origen was eventually declared a heretic, or at least anathema. At any rate, he was always my favorite Church Father
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« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2020, 08:18:46 AM »

Collyridianism if it actually existed, Patripassianism if it didn't. I also have a favorable view of most of the movements PSOL mentions, with the exception of Gnosticism, a school of thought of which people have a ludicrously high opinion considering its unabashed secrecy and elitism--probably since, unlike with a lot of other heresies, enough Gnostic texts survive that they're more or less able to speak for themselves.


John Wycliffe was with the Lollards, not the Diggers, whose most familiar individual figure is Gerrard Winstanley.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2020, 12:53:14 PM »

Yeah, I have an extremely poor view of Gnosticism. It certainly wasn't at all about class liberation, so I have no idea why PSOL is embracing it. The whole thrust of early Gnosticism was that only a select few highly educated people (and thus certainly of the establishment, just not the church establishment, not that it makes much sense to speak of a church establishment when speaking of the early church) were going to be able to escape this corrupt material world created by the demiurge. (Indeed, Gnosticism is probably the earliest documented source of an explicit statement of predestination to be found within Christianity. — The Jewish Essenes also had a rather explicit doctrine of predestination, hence the qualifier "within Christianity" .)
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2020, 05:50:12 PM »

I don’t really count them as a heresy, but Quakerism. They have an objectively admirable theology.

However, they are heretical in the sense of a rejection of the sacraments/ordained priesthood.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2020, 12:31:44 AM »

     I like the Old Believers and use several of their cosmetic practices (e.g. using two fingers to make the sign of the cross), though the anathema on them was lifted many years ago. Some of the sub-sects of the Old Believers had very unusual doctrines that I find fascinating.

     It is hard to pick just one group to call out, but I would like to mention the Holy Thursday Gapers, who would keep their mouths open during liturgy on Great and Holy Thursday in anticipation of receiving the Eucharist from angelic ministers. Their reasoning for this was that they did not believe any valid human priests still existed on Earth, so Holy Communion could only be given to them by angelic hands.
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Nathan
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« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2020, 08:08:52 AM »

     I like the Old Believers and use several of their cosmetic practices (e.g. using two fingers to make the sign of the cross), though the anathema on them was lifted many years ago. Some of the sub-sects of the Old Believers had very unusual doctrines that I find fascinating.

     It is hard to pick just one group to call out, but I would like to mention the Holy Thursday Gapers, who would keep their mouths open during liturgy on Great and Holy Thursday in anticipation of receiving the Eucharist from angelic ministers. Their reasoning for this was that they did not believe any valid human priests still existed on Earth, so Holy Communion could only be given to them by angelic hands.

Were the Nikonian Reforms really successfully enforced on every Russian Orthodox priest, or did the rationale for this have to do with something else, like a lack of "faithful" bishops to perform new ordinations?
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2020, 07:43:41 PM »

     I like the Old Believers and use several of their cosmetic practices (e.g. using two fingers to make the sign of the cross), though the anathema on them was lifted many years ago. Some of the sub-sects of the Old Believers had very unusual doctrines that I find fascinating.

     It is hard to pick just one group to call out, but I would like to mention the Holy Thursday Gapers, who would keep their mouths open during liturgy on Great and Holy Thursday in anticipation of receiving the Eucharist from angelic ministers. Their reasoning for this was that they did not believe any valid human priests still existed on Earth, so Holy Communion could only be given to them by angelic hands.

Were the Nikonian Reforms really successfully enforced on every Russian Orthodox priest, or did the rationale for this have to do with something else, like a lack of "faithful" bishops to perform new ordinations?

     Indeed it was a matter of bishops. They had priests initially, but no bishops of the Russian Church were with the Old Believers to ordain new ones and so their priesthood rapidly died out. Their most prominent members were able to convince a deposed bishop from another country to come and ordain new ones, but these ordinations were not universally recognized among Old Believers. This led to a division between the "popovtzy" who had priests and the "bezpopovtzy" who did not have priests. Most of the truly bizarre sects of the Old Believers were bezpopovtzy.
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Chunk Yogurt for President!
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2020, 09:22:09 AM »

Sedevacantism
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Nathan
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2020, 09:42:50 AM »

     I like the Old Believers and use several of their cosmetic practices (e.g. using two fingers to make the sign of the cross), though the anathema on them was lifted many years ago. Some of the sub-sects of the Old Believers had very unusual doctrines that I find fascinating.

     It is hard to pick just one group to call out, but I would like to mention the Holy Thursday Gapers, who would keep their mouths open during liturgy on Great and Holy Thursday in anticipation of receiving the Eucharist from angelic ministers. Their reasoning for this was that they did not believe any valid human priests still existed on Earth, so Holy Communion could only be given to them by angelic hands.

Were the Nikonian Reforms really successfully enforced on every Russian Orthodox priest, or did the rationale for this have to do with something else, like a lack of "faithful" bishops to perform new ordinations?

     Indeed it was a matter of bishops. They had priests initially, but no bishops of the Russian Church were with the Old Believers to ordain new ones and so their priesthood rapidly died out. Their most prominent members were able to convince a deposed bishop from another country to come and ordain new ones, but these ordinations were not universally recognized among Old Believers. This led to a division between the "popovtzy" who had priests and the "bezpopovtzy" who did not have priests. Most of the truly bizarre sects of the Old Believers were bezpopovtzy.

On the merits, I'm actually sympathetic to the contemporary arguments against the Nikonian Reforms. Everything I've read about them indicates that they were imposed in an incredibly heavy-handed way, and the rationale for them reeks of cultural cringe. I probably would have grudgingly accepted them once they were in place, though.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2020, 01:00:34 AM »

     I like the Old Believers and use several of their cosmetic practices (e.g. using two fingers to make the sign of the cross), though the anathema on them was lifted many years ago. Some of the sub-sects of the Old Believers had very unusual doctrines that I find fascinating.

     It is hard to pick just one group to call out, but I would like to mention the Holy Thursday Gapers, who would keep their mouths open during liturgy on Great and Holy Thursday in anticipation of receiving the Eucharist from angelic ministers. Their reasoning for this was that they did not believe any valid human priests still existed on Earth, so Holy Communion could only be given to them by angelic hands.

Were the Nikonian Reforms really successfully enforced on every Russian Orthodox priest, or did the rationale for this have to do with something else, like a lack of "faithful" bishops to perform new ordinations?

     Indeed it was a matter of bishops. They had priests initially, but no bishops of the Russian Church were with the Old Believers to ordain new ones and so their priesthood rapidly died out. Their most prominent members were able to convince a deposed bishop from another country to come and ordain new ones, but these ordinations were not universally recognized among Old Believers. This led to a division between the "popovtzy" who had priests and the "bezpopovtzy" who did not have priests. Most of the truly bizarre sects of the Old Believers were bezpopovtzy.

On the merits, I'm actually sympathetic to the contemporary arguments against the Nikonian Reforms. Everything I've read about them indicates that they were imposed in an incredibly heavy-handed way, and the rationale for them reeks of cultural cringe. I probably would have grudgingly accepted them once they were in place, though.

     The Nikonian reforms were grossly unnecessary and came from a place of misunderstanding, as did the Old Believer opposition. Russians understood correctly a truth that is mostly lost today, i.e. that liturgy is laden with theological implication. They took this idea to an unreasonable extreme though, and became convinced that even trivial changes to the liturgy represented heresy and false worship.

     Ultimately, I think I would have done the same as you. The reforms shouldn't have happened, but they in no way justify schism.
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MyRescueKittehRocks
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« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2020, 08:48:46 PM »

Protestantism is orthodox and not a heresy. Sedevacantism does have legitimate grievances with Rome.

Here’s a heresy for ya. Modalism
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