day 26: montana

[WalterMitty]

discuss montana.

it went democrat as recently as 92, thanks in large part to a crazy texan.  democrats are proud that they elected a governor in montana in 04.

will the democrats become more competitive in montana on the presidential level?

[Joe Republic]

Democrats are certainly doing well at the state level, although partly because the state GOP seems to be slowly imploding like a souffle in a closet.

The Dems won the governor's mansion largely because of incredibly negative fallout from Judy Martz's terrible administration (which lends a good case for the Dems taking the Ohio governorship next month).  Seriously, that woman almost makes Bob Taft look good.

And although Conrad Burns is facing tough approval ratings and various scandals, he should still pull off a fairly comfortable win next year.  You can't blame Jon Tester for trying, though.

On the presidential level?  The Dems have no chance unless somebody conjures up Ross Perot 2.0 or we have another realignment.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Blatent Plug

[© tweed]

Blatent Plug

Why did you choose to write about Montana, of all places?

[Alcon]

Montana is a very interesting state that I certainly enjoy watching, but will never go for a Democrat on the national level without Perot.  Too bad, too - Montana shares some cultural aspects with Colorado.

[WalterMitty]

Montana shares some cultural aspects with Colorado.

in other words, montana shares some cultural aspects with another rocky mountain republican state.

[Alcon]

Montana shares some cultural aspects with Colorado.

in other words, montana shares some cultural aspects with another rocky mountain republican state.

Yes - another, more moderate Rocky Mountain Republican state.

The lack of big cities is the primary reason Montana votes the way it does.  Both have a very independent-minded, hands-off culture common in the west and are willing to pass some progressive libertarian legislation, such as decriminalisation of pot.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Montana is actually very interesting; you have all the different ethnic and religious groups (I forgot the Pentecostalists on my Wiki piece. Damn. Have to add 'em...) and the very distinct physical and economic regions.
Not all the state is in the Rockies, btw.

[bgwah]

Montana is half rockies and half plains, really... That state probably has some of the nicest people in the country (New York being the meanest).

I'm not saying it's going to go democrat anytime in the near future on the presidential level. But with the right candidate, it's not impossible... As local races show, most people will at least consider voting Democrat. But national party candidates like Kerry just don't appeal to Montana. Even without any large city, even one as big as Spokane or Boise, its still the most Democratic area in the region except for maybe Colorado, which has a major city and large minority populations.

[jimrtex]

discuss montana.

it went democrat as recently as 92, thanks in large part to a crazy texan.  democrats are proud that they elected a governor in montana in 04.

will the democrats become more competitive in montana on the presidential level?

Montana has one of the most significant mining areas relative to the total population and economy.

[MaC]

is Montana one of those states that sees things on a libertarian/populist divide?

[Alcon]

is Montana one of those states that sees things on a libertarian/populist divide?

I'm not sure quite what you mean by that.

Generally, Montana Democrats in Butte and Anaconda are populist, while in the rest of the state, Democrats and Republicans are usually libertarian.

However, there are lots of rural voters that vote Democratic solely because of economic reasons, and they tend to be populist, even if they also believe in the government not getting involved.

[ian]

A sidenote:
31% Republican, 27% Democrat, 40% Independent in Montana.
In 2002, 30% Republican, 21% Democrat.
It's true that we're gaining.

[jokerman]

is Montana one of those states that sees things on a libertarian/populist divide?

However, there are lots of rural voters that vote Democratic solely because of economic reasons, and they tend to be populist, even if they also believe in the government not getting involved.

Classical Populism (ala Thomas Jefferson).  That's something you rarely see these days.

[Cubby]

(New York being the meanest).

I resent that.

[Colin]

is Montana one of those states that sees things on a libertarian/populist divide?

However, there are lots of rural voters that vote Democratic solely because of economic reasons, and they tend to be populist, even if they also believe in the government not getting involved.

Classical Populism (ala Thomas Jefferson).

HAHAHAHA! That's classic. If Jefferson were alive today you would probably make fun of him because he wasn't a populist. Seriously what makes you think this? From what I can tell he was basically in favour of a agricultural society founded upon aristocratic farmers along with an incredibly decentralized government. Seriously don't call things populism this early in the game. I even try to refrain from using libertarianism or liberalism this early.

"Classical", if it can be called that, Populism is basically the name for the Greenback/Bryan ideology of free silver and anti-gold policies as well as farmer subsidies and an increase in the power of the rural electorate. That is what you would define as "classical" populism if such a term even exists.

[Colin]

Just FYI Preston this is how the Wiki defines "classical" populism.

Classical populism

The word populism is derived from the Latin word populus, which means people in English (in the sense of "I will govern for the people", not in the sense of "There are people visiting us today"). Therefore, populism espouses government by the people as a whole (that is to say, the masses). This is in contrast to elitism or aristocracy, both of which are ideologies that espouse government by a small, privileged group above the masses.

Populism has been a common political phenomenon throughout history. Spartacus could be considered a famous example of a populist leader of ancient times through his slave rebellion against the rulers of Ancient Rome. In more recent times, the French Revolution, though led by wealthy intellectuals, could also be described as a manifestation of populist sentiment against the elitist excesses and privileges of the Ancien Régime. Abraham Lincoln could not have summed up the populist ideology better when, in his famous Gettysburg Address, he advocated "... government of the people, by the people, for the people."

[memphis]

is Montana one of those states that sees things on a libertarian/populist divide?

However, there are lots of rural voters that vote Democratic solely because of economic reasons, and they tend to be populist, even if they also believe in the government not getting involved.

Classical Populism (ala Thomas Jefferson).

HAHAHAHA! That's classic. If Jefferson were alive today you would probably make fun of him because he wasn't a populist. Seriously what makes you think this? From what I can tell he was basically in favour of a agricultural society founded upon aristocratic farmers along with an incredibly decentralized government. Seriously don't call things populism this early in the game. I even try to refrain from using libertarianism or liberalism this early.

"Classical", if it can be called that, Populism is basically the name for the Greenback/Bryan ideology of free silver and anti-gold policies as well as farmer subsidies and an increase in the power of the rural electorate. That is what you would define as "classical" populism if such a term even exists.

Jefferson was definately not for "aristocratic farmers." He ended primogeniture and entail in Virginia and wrote extensively against inheritance. "The world belongs to the living" he wrote to James Madison. At the same time, I agree that labeling anybody who lived before the Civil War a "populist" is highly problematic.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Good point; you can't really catagorise that many U.S politicians before the Civil War with modern ideological labels (with the odd exception like Jackson), Jefferson especially.
Very interesting guy (who made some important agricultural breakthroughs, btw) but all the different groups who try to claim him (and who hasn't?) are probably clutching at straws...

[jokerman]

Oh, by far, I'm not saying that I could say that Jefferson did anything to help the common people and working class, by far, he supported the interests of the aristocratic planters.  Unfortunately, he used rural populism (anti-cities, anti-strong national government) to manipulate his victories.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

one thing about Montana that people don't get is how they vastly overstate the libertarianism there. There were people listing it as a pro-choice state! Anyone who calls Montana anything other than socially conservative has definately not been there.

Really, the libertarianism basically means they are softer on drugs. They are one of only two states remaining where the DUI level is .1 instead of .08, just legalized medical marijuana as we saw and you can drink and drive there as long as you don't go over the limit (which even I think is stupid). Oh and they don't like speed limits much either.

[Colin]

Oh, by far, I'm not saying that I could say that Jefferson did anything to help the common people and working class, by far, he supported the interests of the aristocratic planters.  Unfortunately, he used rural populism (anti-cities, anti-strong national government) to manipulate his victories.

If you go by your description of what populism is I could ing pass for a populist.

[Alcon]

Preston, I think you're confusing statist populist politics with the populist movement.

Just look at the state of Montana - libertarians can do the populist thing, too.

[jokerman]

Preston, I think you're confusing statist populist politics with the populist movement.

Just look at the state of Montana - libertarians can do the populist thing, too.

No, I was distinguishing between them -that was my point.