(Dems).. Do you think '20 Dem Ticket should include...

[Attorney General & PPT Dwarven Dragon]

As a likely voter for the Democratic nominee, I honestly couldn't care less as long as they're both candidates I like. That being said, I'd be extremely, extremely surprised if the Dem ticket doesn't include at least one woman.

[Karpatsky]

Identity politics is the definition of this question. How about what people are on the actual issues?

3rd wayers do their best to avoid the issues, because they suck so badly on them.

You are both completely off base, but you are both white males so anything that remotely revolves around representation for other groups must seem foreign to you. If you really think advocating for a racially or gender diverse ticket means putting some unqualified, incompetent hack that "sucks on the issues" on board then you aren't wrapped too tight.

Hmmmmmm I wonder where white working class voters get the impression the liberal elites have disdain for them. I didn't vote in the poll because I'm not a democrat. I fully expect democrats to have at least one woman and at least one nonwhite on the ticket. That alone doesn't necessarily hurt you guy with white voters (Obama won Iowa twice), but when you start a discussion with what amounts to "You're a white male so you know nothing and need to shut up" you will lose.

Keep it up! Let's shoot for a 25 point margin among white voters in 2020.

I swear the SJWs are going to get Trump re-elected.

'SJW' is a right wing snarl term used to delegitimize progressive movements and create boogeyman for their base.

Yeah, since when did fighting for people's rights become a bad thing?

I guess Jesus, Gandhi, MLK Jr., and Harvey Milk were all just SJWs too. And look how little they amounted to...

Yeah, but not all 'progressive' groups are actually progressive. The extent to which American colleges have gone off the deep end with far-left social causes is exaggerated but definitely exists; stuff like shouting down the ACLU because they defend white supremacy is the sort of thing which should earn a label other than 'progressive' (yes, this is an actual thing which occurred at an American college attended by a friend of mine recently). Same thing for a really depressing amount of Communist apologia going on in a lot of places - I think antifa on the whole is doing necessary work in the US but I cringe every time I see Soviet flags in such rallies.

The left needs to stop allowing the right to define their loonies for them, is all I'm saying. The SJW arguments always remind me of the time Glenn Beck got the leader of the American Communist Party on his show and tried to get him to say he supported Obama.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Identity politics is the definition of this question. How about what people are on the actual issues?

3rd wayers do their best to avoid the issues, because they suck so badly on them.

You are both completely off base, but you are both white males so anything that remotely revolves around representation for other groups must seem foreign to you. If you really think advocating for a racially or gender diverse ticket means putting some unqualified, incompetent hack that "sucks on the issues" on board then you aren't wrapped too tight.

Hmmmmmm I wonder where white working class voters get the impression the liberal elites have disdain for them. I didn't vote in the poll because I'm not a democrat. I fully expect democrats to have at least one woman and at least one nonwhite on the ticket. That alone doesn't necessarily hurt you guy with white voters (Obama won Iowa twice), but when you start a discussion with what amounts to "You're a white male so you know nothing and need to shut up" you will lose.

Keep it up! Let's shoot for a 25 point margin among white voters in 2020.

I swear the SJWs are going to get Trump re-elected.

'SJW' is a right wing snarl term used to delegitimize progressive movements and create boogeyman for their base.

Yeah, since when did fighting for people's rights become a bad thing?

I guess Jesus, Gandhi, MLK Jr., and Harvey Milk were all just SJWs too. And look how little they amounted to...

Fighting for people's rights isn't the same as being a dumbsh**t SJW who thinks that Bernie has a problem with blacks and women because the white male who called Anita Hill "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty" had their propaganda tell them so.

[AtorBoltox]

Identity politics is the definition of this question. How about what people are on the actual issues?

3rd wayers do their best to avoid the issues, because they suck so badly on them.

You are both completely off base, but you are both white males so anything that remotely revolves around representation for other groups must seem foreign to you. If you really think advocating for a racially or gender diverse ticket means putting some unqualified, incompetent hack that "sucks on the issues" on board then you aren't wrapped too tight.

Hmmmmmm I wonder where white working class voters get the impression the liberal elites have disdain for them. I didn't vote in the poll because I'm not a democrat. I fully expect democrats to have at least one woman and at least one nonwhite on the ticket. That alone doesn't necessarily hurt you guy with white voters (Obama won Iowa twice), but when you start a discussion with what amounts to "You're a white male so you know nothing and need to shut up" you will lose.

Keep it up! Let's shoot for a 25 point margin among white voters in 2020.

I swear the SJWs are going to get Trump re-elected.

'SJW' is a right wing snarl term used to delegitimize progressive movements and create boogeyman for their base.

Yeah, since when did fighting for people's rights become a bad thing?

I guess Jesus, Gandhi, MLK Jr., and Harvey Milk were all just SJWs too. And look how little they amounted to...

Fighting for people's rights isn't the same as being a dumbsh**t SJW who thinks that Bernie has a problem with blacks and women because the white male who called Anita Hill "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty" had their propaganda tell them so.

The majority of people who you'd identify as 'SJW's would have voted for Bernie

[Cold War Liberal]

Identity politics is the definition of this question. How about what people are on the actual issues?

3rd wayers do their best to avoid the issues, because they suck so badly on them.

You are both completely off base, but you are both white males so anything that remotely revolves around representation for other groups must seem foreign to you. If you really think advocating for a racially or gender diverse ticket means putting some unqualified, incompetent hack that "sucks on the issues" on board then you aren't wrapped too tight.

Hmmmmmm I wonder where white working class voters get the impression the liberal elites have disdain for them. I didn't vote in the poll because I'm not a democrat. I fully expect democrats to have at least one woman and at least one nonwhite on the ticket. That alone doesn't necessarily hurt you guy with white voters (Obama won Iowa twice), but when you start a discussion with what amounts to "You're a white male so you know nothing and need to shut up" you will lose.

Keep it up! Let's shoot for a 25 point margin among white voters in 2020.

I swear the SJWs are going to get Trump re-elected.

'SJW' is a right wing snarl term used to delegitimize progressive movements and create boogeyman for their base.

Yeah, since when did fighting for people's rights become a bad thing?

I guess Jesus, Gandhi, MLK Jr., and Harvey Milk were all just SJWs too. And look how little they amounted to...

Fighting for people's rights isn't the same as being a dumbsh**t SJW who thinks that Bernie has a problem with blacks and women because the white male who called Anita Hill "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty" had their propaganda tell them so.

I've never heard anyone say Bernie "has a problem" with black people or women. I've heard (and believe myself) that despite marching once half a century ago, he doesn't particularly care much about black people and minorities, which he has, perhaps accidentally, said himself:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What the hell is an "ordinary American," and why are their issues:
1) separate from those of minorites, and
2) more important than those of minorites?

I'm not saying Sanders is, like, in the Klan or anything, but to put it in personal terms, I doubt the authenticity of his commitment to my rights as a gay person, the rights of people like me, and the rights of my friends, especially those who are black, gay, or both. Sanders would not have my vote in the primary, though I would vote for him in the general because sometimes you have to get over yourself and vote for the lesser of two evils to avoid the greater of two evils, Donald J. Trump.

[bagelman]

Bernie Sanders believes that women, Latinos and blacks and people in the gay community etc. are ordinary Americans.

While wealthy white men (and conservative white women) vote GOP, liberal wealthy women and wealthy latinos/blacks/lgbts/whatever vote for Clinton because deep down they don't want to make the wealth disparity smaller and life fairer for the lower class. They don't want to reduce the influence of the highest rungs of the economic ladder, they want to be part of a new more diverse class of elite just as greedy as the more ethnically homogeneous old elite. This isn't a conspiracy theory because many people openly call themselves "opportunity democrats" - and if you look at the great wealth of the Bay Area as a prime example, they're winning in their real goals.

[Wisconsin SC Race 2019]

Bernie Sanders believes that women, Latinos and blacks and people in the gay community etc. are ordinary Americans.

While wealthy white men (and conservative white women) vote GOP, liberal wealthy women and wealthy latinos/blacks/lgbts/whatever vote for Clinton because deep down they don't want to make the wealth disparity smaller and life fairer for the lower class. They don't want to reduce the influence of the highest rungs of the economic ladder, they want to be part of a new more diverse class of elite just as greedy as the more ethnically homogeneous old elite. This isn't a conspiracy theory because many people openly call themselves "opportunity democrats" - and if you look at the great wealth of the Bay Area as a prime example, they're winning in their real goals.

There are 2 neoliberal parties in America now. One for the whites, and one for the rest.

[Dr. MB]

Identity politics is the definition of this question. How about what people are on the actual issues?

3rd wayers do their best to avoid the issues, because they suck so badly on them.

You are both completely off base, but you are both white males so anything that remotely revolves around representation for other groups must seem foreign to you. If you really think advocating for a racially or gender diverse ticket means putting some unqualified, incompetent hack that "sucks on the issues" on board then you aren't wrapped too tight.

Hmmmmmm I wonder where white working class voters get the impression the liberal elites have disdain for them. I didn't vote in the poll because I'm not a democrat. I fully expect democrats to have at least one woman and at least one nonwhite on the ticket. That alone doesn't necessarily hurt you guy with white voters (Obama won Iowa twice), but when you start a discussion with what amounts to "You're a white male so you know nothing and need to shut up" you will lose.

Keep it up! Let's shoot for a 25 point margin among white voters in 2020.

I swear the SJWs are going to get Trump re-elected.

'SJW' is a right wing snarl term used to delegitimize progressive movements and create boogeyman for their base.

Yeah, since when did fighting for people's rights become a bad thing?

I guess Jesus, Gandhi, MLK Jr., and Harvey Milk were all just SJWs too. And look how little they amounted to...

Fighting for people's rights isn't the same as being a dumbsh**t SJW who thinks that Bernie has a problem with blacks and women because the white male who called Anita Hill "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty" had their propaganda tell them so.

I've never heard anyone say Bernie "has a problem" with black people or women. I've heard (and believe myself) that despite marching once half a century ago, he doesn't particularly care much about black people and minorities, which he has, perhaps accidentally, said himself:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What the hell is an "ordinary American," and why are their issues:
1) separate from those of minorites, and
2) more important than those of minorites?

I'm not saying Sanders is, like, in the Klan or anything, but to put it in personal terms, I doubt the authenticity of his commitment to my rights as a gay person, the rights of people like me, and the rights of my friends, especially those who are black, gay, or both. Sanders would not have my vote in the primary, though I would vote for him in the general because sometimes you have to get over yourself and vote for the lesser of two evils to avoid the greater of two evils, Donald J. Trump.

Sanders would've done so much more for blacks, Latinos, and LGBTs than Clinton ever would've. Bagelman summed it up perfectly.

I think, when you analyze the statement, what he meant is that instead of always attacking Trump we should pay attention to the actual issues.

[YE]

An ordinary American is someone in the bottom 99%.  It's not like Bernie Sanders is gonna go ahead and say gays or blacks can't have medicare for all.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

An ordinary American is someone in the bottom 99%.  It's not like Bernie Sanders is gonna go ahead and say gays or blacks can't have medicare for all.

Some people act like a Sanders administration would be just as racist as situation in the 1930s where some of the New Deal programs such as housing in the south were administered to be racist against blacks. Which is an absurd accusation to make of someone who fought for desegregation in Chicago.

[Spacephys02]

Identity politics is the definition of this question. How about what people are on the actual issues?

3rd wayers do their best to avoid the issues, because they suck so badly on them.

You are both completely off base, but you are both white males so anything that remotely revolves around representation for other groups must seem foreign to you. If you really think advocating for a racially or gender diverse ticket means putting some unqualified, incompetent hack that "sucks on the issues" on board then you aren't wrapped too tight.

Hmmmmmm I wonder where white working class voters get the impression the liberal elites have disdain for them. I didn't vote in the poll because I'm not a democrat. I fully expect democrats to have at least one woman and at least one nonwhite on the ticket. That alone doesn't necessarily hurt you guy with white voters (Obama won Iowa twice), but when you start a discussion with what amounts to "You're a white male so you know nothing and need to shut up" you will lose.

Keep it up! Let's shoot for a 25 point margin among white voters in 2020.

I swear the SJWs are going to get Trump re-elected.

'SJW' is a right wing snarl term used to delegitimize progressive movements and create boogeyman for their base.

Yeah, since when did fighting for people's rights become a bad thing?

I guess Jesus, Gandhi, MLK Jr., and Harvey Milk were all just SJWs too. And look how little they amounted to...

Fighting for people's rights isn't the same as being a dumbsh**t SJW who thinks that Bernie has a problem with blacks and women because the white male who called Anita Hill "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty" had their propaganda tell them so.

I've never heard anyone say Bernie "has a problem" with black people or women. I've heard (and believe myself) that despite marching once half a century ago, he doesn't particularly care much about black people and minorities, which he has, perhaps accidentally, said himself:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What the hell is an "ordinary American," and why are their issues:
1) separate from those of minorites, and
2) more important than those of minorites?

I'm not saying Sanders is, like, in the Klan or anything, but to put it in personal terms, I doubt the authenticity of his commitment to my rights as a gay person, the rights of people like me, and the rights of my friends, especially those who are black, gay, or both. Sanders would not have my vote in the primary, though I would vote for him in the general because sometimes you have to get over yourself and vote for the lesser of two evils to avoid the greater of two evils, Donald J. Trump.

I'm not sure how you can make a good case that Bernie is not committed to your rights as a gay person when as early as the 1970s, he was arguing that laws against homosexuality should be abolished. He also supported LGBT rights as Mayor of Burlington and voted against DOMA.

[Dr. MB]

Identity politics is the definition of this question. How about what people are on the actual issues?

3rd wayers do their best to avoid the issues, because they suck so badly on them.

You are both completely off base, but you are both white males so anything that remotely revolves around representation for other groups must seem foreign to you. If you really think advocating for a racially or gender diverse ticket means putting some unqualified, incompetent hack that "sucks on the issues" on board then you aren't wrapped too tight.

Hmmmmmm I wonder where white working class voters get the impression the liberal elites have disdain for them. I didn't vote in the poll because I'm not a democrat. I fully expect democrats to have at least one woman and at least one nonwhite on the ticket. That alone doesn't necessarily hurt you guy with white voters (Obama won Iowa twice), but when you start a discussion with what amounts to "You're a white male so you know nothing and need to shut up" you will lose.

Keep it up! Let's shoot for a 25 point margin among white voters in 2020.

I swear the SJWs are going to get Trump re-elected.

'SJW' is a right wing snarl term used to delegitimize progressive movements and create boogeyman for their base.

Yeah, since when did fighting for people's rights become a bad thing?

I guess Jesus, Gandhi, MLK Jr., and Harvey Milk were all just SJWs too. And look how little they amounted to...

Fighting for people's rights isn't the same as being a dumbsh**t SJW who thinks that Bernie has a problem with blacks and women because the white male who called Anita Hill "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty" had their propaganda tell them so.

I've never heard anyone say Bernie "has a problem" with black people or women. I've heard (and believe myself) that despite marching once half a century ago, he doesn't particularly care much about black people and minorities, which he has, perhaps accidentally, said himself:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What the hell is an "ordinary American," and why are their issues:
1) separate from those of minorites, and
2) more important than those of minorites?

I'm not saying Sanders is, like, in the Klan or anything, but to put it in personal terms, I doubt the authenticity of his commitment to my rights as a gay person, the rights of people like me, and the rights of my friends, especially those who are black, gay, or both. Sanders would not have my vote in the primary, though I would vote for him in the general because sometimes you have to get over yourself and vote for the lesser of two evils to avoid the greater of two evils, Donald J. Trump.

I'm not sure how you can make a good case that Bernie is not committed to your rights as a gay person when as early as the 1970s, he was arguing that laws against homosexuality should be abolished. He also supported LGBT rights as Mayor of Burlington and voted against DOMA.

Plus the great "homos in the military" debate vs. Duke Cunningham.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Bernie Sanders believes that women, Latinos and blacks and people in the gay community etc. are ordinary Americans.

While wealthy white men (and conservative white women) vote GOP, liberal wealthy women and wealthy latinos/blacks/lgbts/whatever vote for Clinton because deep down they don't want to make the wealth disparity smaller and life fairer for the lower class. They don't want to reduce the influence of the highest rungs of the economic ladder, they want to be part of a new more diverse class of elite just as greedy as the more ethnically homogeneous old elite. This isn't a conspiracy theory because many people openly call themselves "opportunity democrats" - and if you look at the great wealth of the Bay Area as a prime example, they're winning in their real goals.

Could you try criticizing democrats without resorting to rambling about how all Clinton voters are evil rich diversity people? Not all Clinton supporters are/were LL/ style trash. (Honestly, Clinton isn't even a great representative of the problems with the Democrats, at least when it comes to policy. She isn't the best, but she did push for some decently left proposals before Sanders came in. (Clinton and Sanders supporters in the primary had roughly equal median incomes, FTR)

The real concern with Bernie isn't so much that he'd try to end civil rights or whatever, it's that he won't try to push anything ahead or really pay much attention to non-white/Cis/straight/male issues. You can't truly address wealth inequality without accepting how it worsens/is worsened by other forms of discrimination and societal bias. Personally, I don't trust Bernie to do much about these issues, and I don't think he's a great person to lead the left in general.

[Bidenworth2020]

I’d prefer a woman or minority on the ticket, but I’m not going to discount white men just because they’re white men.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

I will vote for whatever the ticket is, but I will be disappointed if there isn't at least one woman on it.

[TheLaRocca]

Democrats will never run a ticket with two White males again. Pretty sad racist stuff.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

Democrats will never run a ticket with two White males again. Pretty sad racist stuff.

It's not racist. It's called getting in-touch with the country.

[Cold War Liberal]

The real concern with Bernie isn't so much that he'd try to end civil rights or whatever, it's that he won't try to push anything ahead or really pay much attention to non-white/Cis/straight/male issues. You can't truly address wealth inequality without accepting how it worsens/is worsened by other forms of discrimination and societal bias. Personally, I don't trust Bernie to do much about these issues, and I don't think he's a great person to lead the left in general.

Exactly what I was trying to say.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Voted last option. Race and gender will never have an impact on my vote.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's literally insulting to the non-white people and women who carry the Democratic Party that they would nominate two white men in order to satisfy a demographic they lose by 30 points.

It's much more insulting when the working class is mocked and forgotten about by a party that pretends to care about minorities when they are more importantly looking for champagne liberals in Orange County and using minorities as cover to do it.

Tell that to the Third Way mealymouths who spout off "business-friendly solutions", "right-to-work", and "the future of the Democratic Party is in the country clubs of Dallas".

If said people actually existed outside of some think tanks or magazine editorial boards that basically no one pays attention to anyway, (or in the case of your last statement not even there as that's a 100% made up quote you pulled out of your ass), he probably would.

[GoTfan]

Identity politics is the definition of this question. How about what people are on the actual issues?

3rd wayers do their best to avoid the issues, because they suck so badly on them.

You are both completely off base, but you are both white males so anything that remotely revolves around representation for other groups must seem foreign to you. If you really think advocating for a racially or gender diverse ticket means putting some unqualified, incompetent hack that "sucks on the issues" on board then you aren't wrapped too tight.

Hmmmmmm I wonder where white working class voters get the impression the liberal elites have disdain for them. I didn't vote in the poll because I'm not a democrat. I fully expect democrats to have at least one woman and at least one nonwhite on the ticket. That alone doesn't necessarily hurt you guy with white voters (Obama won Iowa twice), but when you start a discussion with what amounts to "You're a white male so you know nothing and need to shut up" you will lose.

Keep it up! Let's shoot for a 25 point margin among white voters in 2020.

I swear the SJWs are going to get Trump re-elected.

'SJW' is a right wing snarl term used to delegitimize progressive movements and create boogeyman for their base.

Yeah, since when did fighting for people's rights become a bad thing?

I guess Jesus, Gandhi, MLK Jr., and Harvey Milk were all just SJWs too. And look how little they amounted to...

Fighting for people's rights isn't the same as being a dumbsh**t SJW who thinks that Bernie has a problem with blacks and women because the white male who called Anita Hill "a little bit nutty and a little bit slutty" had their propaganda tell them so.

I've never heard anyone say Bernie "has a problem" with black people or women. I've heard (and believe myself) that despite marching once half a century ago, he doesn't particularly care much about black people and minorities, which he has, perhaps accidentally, said himself:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

What the hell is an "ordinary American," and why are their issues:
1) separate from those of minorites, and
2) more important than those of minorites?

I'm not saying Sanders is, like, in the Klan or anything, but to put it in personal terms, I doubt the authenticity of his commitment to my rights as a gay person, the rights of people like me, and the rights of my friends, especially those who are black, gay, or both. Sanders would not have my vote in the primary, though I would vote for him in the general because sometimes you have to get over yourself and vote for the lesser of two evils to avoid the greater of two evils, Donald J. Trump.

I seem to recall something about him helping to organise the city's first pride Parade in his first term as Mayor. He also voted against something called "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and the DOMA. he also has a perfect scre from the Human Rights Campaign.

[Theodore]

Voted last option. Race and gender will never have an impact on my vote.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

There doesn't absolutely *have* to be someone who isn't a white male on the ticket, but I would prefer it if there was. Not just for representation issues, but also because I think such a ticket will probably be stronger in the election.

[Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist]

I used to have some sympathy with the 'we should pick people based on their qualifications/capability and not their identity' line of argument, but at the same time so many women and minorities are overlooked (through either conscious or unconscious bias or lack of confidence on their part) when they clearly are capable and have likely overcome more hurdles in their life to reach their position. Politics in both sides of the Atlantic is full of mediocre white middle class men who receive no way near the level of abuse and criticism directed at women and minorities, while more talented individuals from a range of backgrounds could have succeeded with more opportunities/aspirations.

I just can't see how the Democrats nominating two men would be tenable in this environment. When 50% of the population has been underrepresented for so long not to have female representation for one of the two highest offices just seems plain odd.

Because most people don't care about this stuff. Would the left wingers on this site celebrate the first black women president if she happen to be a rabid right winger? Nope....that i guess would be the wrong type of diversity for them

I think it's a good thing that there is at least one African American Senator from the South, even though Tim Scott is a Republican. I think he brings a valuable perspective that otherwise a lot of Republicans (and Democrats, quite frankly) wouldn't be hearing.

[Former President tack50]

I used to have some sympathy with the 'we should pick people based on their qualifications/capability and not their identity' line of argument, but at the same time so many women and minorities are overlooked (through either conscious or unconscious bias or lack of confidence on their part) when they clearly are capable and have likely overcome more hurdles in their life to reach their position. Politics in both sides of the Atlantic is full of mediocre white middle class men who receive no way near the level of abuse and criticism directed at women and minorities, while more talented individuals from a range of backgrounds could have succeeded with more opportunities/aspirations.

I just can't see how the Democrats nominating two men would be tenable in this environment. When 50% of the population has been underrepresented for so long not to have female representation for one of the two highest offices just seems plain odd.

We've never had a non Christian President, and yet no one used that as an argument for Bernie. 3rd way is so selective in their use of identity politics.

What about Obama, the secret muslim? ^/s