RW new sites and pundits are starting to attack the Parkland students

[Edu]

Does Sanchez actually believe that bullying, social isolation, class discrimination and mental health problems are something that happens only in the United States? You would get that impression from reading his posts

[Coastal Elitist]

There is a special place in hell for people that attack school shooting survivors and victims by spreading conspiracy theories.

[publicunofficial]

Does Sanchez actually believe that bullying, social isolation, class discrimination and mental health problems are something that happens only in the United States? You would get that impression from reading his posts

It's the only place where it's acceptable to pick on straight white conservatives, the one and only demographic Sanchez has any sort of affinity for.

[America Needs R'hllor]

Wow. That's all I have to say. Wow.
American Conservativism is so morally bankrupt that not only do they fervently fight every attempt to prevent the next shooting by a worldwide-tested solution, but now they also viciously attack kids who watched their friends being murdered. All for the sacred "right" to buy lethal weapons of killing that they think they should have, a "right" that exists only in their shooting-infested nation. This is, honestly, disgusting.

[fluffypanther19]

They want to pimp out their friend’s deaths and make a statement? Well then we the people have the right to answer them. The ultimate victory of the NRA this time around will be an important life lesson for them anyway: you can’t always get what you want.

Mods please ban.

You can leave. You don't have to wait until you're banned.  If you want an echo chamber, go elsewhere.

What wonderful mods we have!

Thank you. Freedom includes the freedom to be an idiot. As long as people don't post lies or attacks, I have far better things to worry about than what a random poster posts. Calling people despicable or the like may be cathartic, but it doesn't win arguments.

FF mod right here

[fluffypanther19]

my two cents;

Sanchez has a point about bullying culture, but it gets lost in his absolute horrendous argument framing

some of the dems/progressives here were basically bullying Sanchez here and ironically lent some support to his argument while simultaneously hurting their own (which I generally agree with)

true federalist is correct, this forum really can get echo-chambery at times and its good to have dissenting voices as long as they are not advocating violence and threats (which a couple of posters on this thread skirted the line on)

also f@ck the conservatives/ right wing sites that attack the parkland students for speaking their mind (obviously)

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

The solution to this is not banning guns that go pew-pew-pew instead of pew... pew... pew...

There is a reason why school shooters are called criminals, because they break the law. Putting a "no guns allowed" sticker on the front entrance doesn't do smack. There needs to be defense in a school.

Imagine if there was another gun in that school, and another student stepped up and killed the shooter and saved 10+ lives. Thats not possible in schools nowadays, now is it? See, when there is a school shooter in a school building, you can only run or hide. Why not be able to stop it? Now I'm definitely not a Rush Limbaugh fan, he is a nut. But to be quite honest, I do believe that verified teachers should be able to responsibly bring and store a gun with restricted access in the classroom, office, closet, etc. Saving lives is better than not being able to do anything at all.

And I definitely do not trust the judgement of high schoolers who have basically no understanding of politics, who just love being used as political pawns by democratic politicians. Teenagers nowadays are
blinded by their fantasies of social justice and the thinking that their protesting can ever make wise adults much smarter than them even feel a bit sympathetic for them. I did not feel sad at all when I saw their little smirks of "hope" and "change" get wiped off their face via the power of our constitution. I always have sympathy for people who have witnessed and lost so much, and for them it must be terrible. But gun control is not the answer.

These are 14 YEAR OLDS who just saw their friends MURDERED IN FRONT OF THEM. And you're going to tell me they've landed on gun control out of some sort of uninformed naivety?

Bullshit that you have any sympathy for these people. You just cheered on a monster who compared their plight to not getting a summer job because he was on your team and they weren't.

Polarization in this country is so much worse than I thought if it leads to a sizable number of conservatives failing to empathize at all with children who just witnessed 17 people gunned down in the same building as them, just because they advocate for a political cause you disagree with. I'm sure if this was done by FBI agents instead of a deranged 19 year old you guys would be changing your tunes.

Also, your point about teachers walking around the classroom is vile and sick. As if teachers have never had "metal health issues" or faced a "culture of nastiness". For people who are supposedly anti-authoritarian, you guys sure seem to overestimate how power dynamics will improve if everybody is packing heat.

[Grassroots]

The solution to this is not banning guns that go pew-pew-pew instead of pew... pew... pew...

There is a reason why school shooters are called criminals, because they break the law. Putting a "no guns allowed" sticker on the front entrance doesn't do smack. There needs to be defense in a school.

Imagine if there was another gun in that school, and another student stepped up and killed the shooter and saved 10+ lives. Thats not possible in schools nowadays, now is it? See, when there is a school shooter in a school building, you can only run or hide. Why not be able to stop it? Now I'm definitely not a Rush Limbaugh fan, he is a nut. But to be quite honest, I do believe that verified teachers should be able to responsibly bring and store a gun with restricted access in the classroom, office, closet, etc. Saving lives is better than not being able to do anything at all.

And I definitely do not trust the judgement of high schoolers who have basically no understanding of politics, who just love being used as political pawns by democratic politicians. Teenagers nowadays are
blinded by their fantasies of social justice and the thinking that their protesting can ever make wise adults much smarter than them even feel a bit sympathetic for them. I did not feel sad at all when I saw their little smirks of "hope" and "change" get wiped off their face via the power of our constitution. I always have sympathy for people who have witnessed and lost so much, and for them it must be terrible. But gun control is not the answer.

These are 14 YEAR OLDS who just saw their friends MURDERED IN FRONT OF THEM. And you're going to tell me they've landed on gun control out of some sort of uninformed naivety?

Bullshit that you have any sympathy for these people. You just cheered on a monster who compared their plight to not getting a summer job because he was on your team and they weren't.

Polarization in this country is so much worse than I thought if it leads to a sizable number of conservatives failing to empathize at all with children who just witnessed 17 people gunned down in the same building as them, just because they advocate for a political cause you disagree with. I'm sure if this was done by FBI agents instead of a deranged 19 year old you guys would be changing your tunes.

Also, your point about teachers walking around the classroom is vile and sick. As if teachers have never had "metal health issues" or faced a "culture of nastiness". For people who are supposedly anti-authoritarian, you guys sure seem to overestimate how power dynamics will improve if everybody is packing heat.

If I were a school shooting victim, I wouldn't proceed to embarrass myself with politics. I would just vote if I were of age.

If I were a high schooler, I would feel much safer with responsibly owned guns in that building without a giant police presence to accompany. It's not sick and vile to have the availability to protect and save dozens of lives.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

The solution to this is not banning guns that go pew-pew-pew instead of pew... pew... pew...

There is a reason why school shooters are called criminals, because they break the law. Putting a "no guns allowed" sticker on the front entrance doesn't do smack. There needs to be defense in a school.

Imagine if there was another gun in that school, and another student stepped up and killed the shooter and saved 10+ lives. Thats not possible in schools nowadays, now is it? See, when there is a school shooter in a school building, you can only run or hide. Why not be able to stop it? Now I'm definitely not a Rush Limbaugh fan, he is a nut. But to be quite honest, I do believe that verified teachers should be able to responsibly bring and store a gun with restricted access in the classroom, office, closet, etc. Saving lives is better than not being able to do anything at all.

And I definitely do not trust the judgement of high schoolers who have basically no understanding of politics, who just love being used as political pawns by democratic politicians. Teenagers nowadays are
blinded by their fantasies of social justice and the thinking that their protesting can ever make wise adults much smarter than them even feel a bit sympathetic for them. I did not feel sad at all when I saw their little smirks of "hope" and "change" get wiped off their face via the power of our constitution. I always have sympathy for people who have witnessed and lost so much, and for them it must be terrible. But gun control is not the answer.

These are 14 YEAR OLDS who just saw their friends MURDERED IN FRONT OF THEM. And you're going to tell me they've landed on gun control out of some sort of uninformed naivety?

Bullshit that you have any sympathy for these people. You just cheered on a monster who compared their plight to not getting a summer job because he was on your team and they weren't.

Polarization in this country is so much worse than I thought if it leads to a sizable number of conservatives failing to empathize at all with children who just witnessed 17 people gunned down in the same building as them, just because they advocate for a political cause you disagree with. I'm sure if this was done by FBI agents instead of a deranged 19 year old you guys would be changing your tunes.

Also, your point about teachers walking around the classroom is vile and sick. As if teachers have never had "metal health issues" or faced a "culture of nastiness". For people who are supposedly anti-authoritarian, you guys sure seem to overestimate how power dynamics will improve if everybody is packing heat.

If I were a school shooting victim, I wouldn't proceed to embarrass myself with politics. I would just vote if I were of age.

If I were a high schooler, I would feel much safer with responsibly owned guns in that building without a giant police presence to accompany. It's not sick and vile to have the availability to protect and save dozens of lives.

Okay. I'm not going to take seriously any hypothetical where you put yourself in the shoes of a school shooting victim because you've already shown a lack of empathy around this subject. Thanks though.

There were already armed guards present at the school. These children were not defenseless. Furthermore, how do you have any idea if the the guns in your school are "responsibly owned" if the only person in the school who we know had any experience with guns was Cruz himself? You are guaranteeing that it's legal for people like him to bring a gun into a school if you advocate for more gun presence in schools.

This whole narrative of "good guy with a gun" is bunk. There was a bystander carrying a weapon when Gabby Giffords was shot in Tucson. Not only was he unable to deter or stop the shooter, but he almost shot the wrong person because the scene was so chaotic. You're naive if you think that a bystander with a gun in a frenzied school is going to be effective enough to stop a shooter on a dime.

[Grassroots]

The solution to this is not banning guns that go pew-pew-pew instead of pew... pew... pew...

There is a reason why school shooters are called criminals, because they break the law. Putting a "no guns allowed" sticker on the front entrance doesn't do smack. There needs to be defense in a school.

Imagine if there was another gun in that school, and another student stepped up and killed the shooter and saved 10+ lives. Thats not possible in schools nowadays, now is it? See, when there is a school shooter in a school building, you can only run or hide. Why not be able to stop it? Now I'm definitely not a Rush Limbaugh fan, he is a nut. But to be quite honest, I do believe that verified teachers should be able to responsibly bring and store a gun with restricted access in the classroom, office, closet, etc. Saving lives is better than not being able to do anything at all.

And I definitely do not trust the judgement of high schoolers who have basically no understanding of politics, who just love being used as political pawns by democratic politicians. Teenagers nowadays are
blinded by their fantasies of social justice and the thinking that their protesting can ever make wise adults much smarter than them even feel a bit sympathetic for them. I did not feel sad at all when I saw their little smirks of "hope" and "change" get wiped off their face via the power of our constitution. I always have sympathy for people who have witnessed and lost so much, and for them it must be terrible. But gun control is not the answer.

These are 14 YEAR OLDS who just saw their friends MURDERED IN FRONT OF THEM. And you're going to tell me they've landed on gun control out of some sort of uninformed naivety?

Bullshit that you have any sympathy for these people. You just cheered on a monster who compared their plight to not getting a summer job because he was on your team and they weren't.

Polarization in this country is so much worse than I thought if it leads to a sizable number of conservatives failing to empathize at all with children who just witnessed 17 people gunned down in the same building as them, just because they advocate for a political cause you disagree with. I'm sure if this was done by FBI agents instead of a deranged 19 year old you guys would be changing your tunes.

Also, your point about teachers walking around the classroom is vile and sick. As if teachers have never had "metal health issues" or faced a "culture of nastiness". For people who are supposedly anti-authoritarian, you guys sure seem to overestimate how power dynamics will improve if everybody is packing heat.

If I were a school shooting victim, I wouldn't proceed to embarrass myself with politics. I would just vote if I were of age.

If I were a high schooler, I would feel much safer with responsibly owned guns in that building without a giant police presence to accompany. It's not sick and vile to have the availability to protect and save dozens of lives.

Okay. I'm not going to take seriously any hypothetical where you put yourself in the shoes of a school shooting victim because you've already shown a lack of empathy around this subject. Thanks though.

There were already armed guards present at the school. These children were not defenseless. Furthermore, how do you have any idea if the the guns in your school are "responsibly owned" if the only person in the school who we know had any experience with guns was Cruz himself? You are guaranteeing that it's legal for people like him to bring a gun into a school if you advocate for more gun presence in schools.

This whole narrative of "good guy with a gun" is bunk. There was a bystander carrying a weapon when Gabby Giffords was shot in Tucson. Not only was he unable to deter or stop the shooter, but he almost shot the wrong person because the scene was so chaotic. You're naive if you think that a bystander with a gun in a frenzied school is going to be effective enough to stop a shooter on a dime.

Yeah, and they didn't prevent 17 people from being killed, now did they?

And about the gun bystander, thats one person. Many people with a gun in the building as soon as the shooting starts could end the shooting maybe before a single person could be killed. This solution might not be perfect, but it is certainly better than leaving the entire school defenseless.

The Columbine shooters were able to kill 9+ people just with a shotgun. Banning assault rifles will not do anything to keep more lives from dying.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

The solution to this is not banning guns that go pew-pew-pew instead of pew... pew... pew...

There is a reason why school shooters are called criminals, because they break the law. Putting a "no guns allowed" sticker on the front entrance doesn't do smack. There needs to be defense in a school.

Imagine if there was another gun in that school, and another student stepped up and killed the shooter and saved 10+ lives. Thats not possible in schools nowadays, now is it? See, when there is a school shooter in a school building, you can only run or hide. Why not be able to stop it? Now I'm definitely not a Rush Limbaugh fan, he is a nut. But to be quite honest, I do believe that verified teachers should be able to responsibly bring and store a gun with restricted access in the classroom, office, closet, etc. Saving lives is better than not being able to do anything at all.

And I definitely do not trust the judgement of high schoolers who have basically no understanding of politics, who just love being used as political pawns by democratic politicians. Teenagers nowadays are
blinded by their fantasies of social justice and the thinking that their protesting can ever make wise adults much smarter than them even feel a bit sympathetic for them. I did not feel sad at all when I saw their little smirks of "hope" and "change" get wiped off their face via the power of our constitution. I always have sympathy for people who have witnessed and lost so much, and for them it must be terrible. But gun control is not the answer.

These are 14 YEAR OLDS who just saw their friends MURDERED IN FRONT OF THEM. And you're going to tell me they've landed on gun control out of some sort of uninformed naivety?

Bullshit that you have any sympathy for these people. You just cheered on a monster who compared their plight to not getting a summer job because he was on your team and they weren't.

Polarization in this country is so much worse than I thought if it leads to a sizable number of conservatives failing to empathize at all with children who just witnessed 17 people gunned down in the same building as them, just because they advocate for a political cause you disagree with. I'm sure if this was done by FBI agents instead of a deranged 19 year old you guys would be changing your tunes.

Also, your point about teachers walking around the classroom is vile and sick. As if teachers have never had "metal health issues" or faced a "culture of nastiness". For people who are supposedly anti-authoritarian, you guys sure seem to overestimate how power dynamics will improve if everybody is packing heat.

If I were a school shooting victim, I wouldn't proceed to embarrass myself with politics. I would just vote if I were of age.

If I were a high schooler, I would feel much safer with responsibly owned guns in that building without a giant police presence to accompany. It's not sick and vile to have the availability to protect and save dozens of lives.

Okay. I'm not going to take seriously any hypothetical where you put yourself in the shoes of a school shooting victim because you've already shown a lack of empathy around this subject. Thanks though.

There were already armed guards present at the school. These children were not defenseless. Furthermore, how do you have any idea if the the guns in your school are "responsibly owned" if the only person in the school who we know had any experience with guns was Cruz himself? You are guaranteeing that it's legal for people like him to bring a gun into a school if you advocate for more gun presence in schools.

This whole narrative of "good guy with a gun" is bunk. There was a bystander carrying a weapon when Gabby Giffords was shot in Tucson. Not only was he unable to deter or stop the shooter, but he almost shot the wrong person because the scene was so chaotic. You're naive if you think that a bystander with a gun in a frenzied school is going to be effective enough to stop a shooter on a dime.

Yeah, and they didn't prevent 17 people from being killed, now did they?

And about the gun bystander, thats one person. Many people with a gun in the building as soon as the shooting starts could end the shooting maybe before a single person could be killed. This solution might not be perfect, but it is certainly better than leaving the entire school defenseless.

The Columbine shooters were able to kill 9+ people just with a shotgun. Banning assault rifles will not do anything to keep more lives from dying.

I think it's pretty dumb to expect A) that the whole school being armed with guns will deter a school shooter (considering that most shooters commit suicide when they are done anyway), B) that having several people firing guns simultaneously will subdue a shooter without chaos, confusion and collateral damage, and C) that you can expect a bunch of 16 year olds packing heat to act responsibly with their guns in the absence of a shooter (how is a teacher supposed to fairly evaluate/grade their students when he/she knows their students have a gun and can use lethal force in response to any negative stimulus?)

But, whatever. I'm not going to convince you. Just please don't act like these kids trying to prevent the most horrific thing in their lives from happening to other people are just naive attention whores because it makes you a huge asshole.

[Grassroots]

The solution to this is not banning guns that go pew-pew-pew instead of pew... pew... pew...

There is a reason why school shooters are called criminals, because they break the law. Putting a "no guns allowed" sticker on the front entrance doesn't do smack. There needs to be defense in a school.

Imagine if there was another gun in that school, and another student stepped up and killed the shooter and saved 10+ lives. Thats not possible in schools nowadays, now is it? See, when there is a school shooter in a school building, you can only run or hide. Why not be able to stop it? Now I'm definitely not a Rush Limbaugh fan, he is a nut. But to be quite honest, I do believe that verified teachers should be able to responsibly bring and store a gun with restricted access in the classroom, office, closet, etc. Saving lives is better than not being able to do anything at all.

And I definitely do not trust the judgement of high schoolers who have basically no understanding of politics, who just love being used as political pawns by democratic politicians. Teenagers nowadays are
blinded by their fantasies of social justice and the thinking that their protesting can ever make wise adults much smarter than them even feel a bit sympathetic for them. I did not feel sad at all when I saw their little smirks of "hope" and "change" get wiped off their face via the power of our constitution. I always have sympathy for people who have witnessed and lost so much, and for them it must be terrible. But gun control is not the answer.

These are 14 YEAR OLDS who just saw their friends MURDERED IN FRONT OF THEM. And you're going to tell me they've landed on gun control out of some sort of uninformed naivety?

Bullshit that you have any sympathy for these people. You just cheered on a monster who compared their plight to not getting a summer job because he was on your team and they weren't.

Polarization in this country is so much worse than I thought if it leads to a sizable number of conservatives failing to empathize at all with children who just witnessed 17 people gunned down in the same building as them, just because they advocate for a political cause you disagree with. I'm sure if this was done by FBI agents instead of a deranged 19 year old you guys would be changing your tunes.

Also, your point about teachers walking around the classroom is vile and sick. As if teachers have never had "metal health issues" or faced a "culture of nastiness". For people who are supposedly anti-authoritarian, you guys sure seem to overestimate how power dynamics will improve if everybody is packing heat.

If I were a school shooting victim, I wouldn't proceed to embarrass myself with politics. I would just vote if I were of age.

If I were a high schooler, I would feel much safer with responsibly owned guns in that building without a giant police presence to accompany. It's not sick and vile to have the availability to protect and save dozens of lives.

Okay. I'm not going to take seriously any hypothetical where you put yourself in the shoes of a school shooting victim because you've already shown a lack of empathy around this subject. Thanks though.

There were already armed guards present at the school. These children were not defenseless. Furthermore, how do you have any idea if the the guns in your school are "responsibly owned" if the only person in the school who we know had any experience with guns was Cruz himself? You are guaranteeing that it's legal for people like him to bring a gun into a school if you advocate for more gun presence in schools.

This whole narrative of "good guy with a gun" is bunk. There was a bystander carrying a weapon when Gabby Giffords was shot in Tucson. Not only was he unable to deter or stop the shooter, but he almost shot the wrong person because the scene was so chaotic. You're naive if you think that a bystander with a gun in a frenzied school is going to be effective enough to stop a shooter on a dime.

Yeah, and they didn't prevent 17 people from being killed, now did they?

And about the gun bystander, thats one person. Many people with a gun in the building as soon as the shooting starts could end the shooting maybe before a single person could be killed. This solution might not be perfect, but it is certainly better than leaving the entire school defenseless.

The Columbine shooters were able to kill 9+ people just with a shotgun. Banning assault rifles will not do anything to keep more lives from dying.

I think it's pretty dumb to expect A) that the whole school being armed with guns will deter a school shooter (considering that most shooters commit suicide when they are done anyway), B) that having several people firing guns simultaneously will subdue a shooter without chaos, confusion and collateral damage, and C) that you can expect a bunch of 16 year olds packing heat to act responsibly with their guns in the absence of a shooter (how is a teacher supposed to fairly evaluate/grade their students when he/she knows their students have a gun and can use lethal force in response to any negative stimulus?)

But, whatever. I'm not going to convince you. Just please don't act like these kids trying to prevent the most horrific thing in their lives from happening to other people are just naive attention whores because it makes you a huge asshole.

Its not perfect. But what is banning fast meany meany evil meany guns going to do when any gun can kill dozens of people?

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

The solution to this is not banning guns that go pew-pew-pew instead of pew... pew... pew...

There is a reason why school shooters are called criminals, because they break the law. Putting a "no guns allowed" sticker on the front entrance doesn't do smack. There needs to be defense in a school.

Imagine if there was another gun in that school, and another student stepped up and killed the shooter and saved 10+ lives. Thats not possible in schools nowadays, now is it? See, when there is a school shooter in a school building, you can only run or hide. Why not be able to stop it? Now I'm definitely not a Rush Limbaugh fan, he is a nut. But to be quite honest, I do believe that verified teachers should be able to responsibly bring and store a gun with restricted access in the classroom, office, closet, etc. Saving lives is better than not being able to do anything at all.

And I definitely do not trust the judgement of high schoolers who have basically no understanding of politics, who just love being used as political pawns by democratic politicians. Teenagers nowadays are
blinded by their fantasies of social justice and the thinking that their protesting can ever make wise adults much smarter than them even feel a bit sympathetic for them. I did not feel sad at all when I saw their little smirks of "hope" and "change" get wiped off their face via the power of our constitution. I always have sympathy for people who have witnessed and lost so much, and for them it must be terrible. But gun control is not the answer.

These are 14 YEAR OLDS who just saw their friends MURDERED IN FRONT OF THEM. And you're going to tell me they've landed on gun control out of some sort of uninformed naivety?

Bullshit that you have any sympathy for these people. You just cheered on a monster who compared their plight to not getting a summer job because he was on your team and they weren't.

Polarization in this country is so much worse than I thought if it leads to a sizable number of conservatives failing to empathize at all with children who just witnessed 17 people gunned down in the same building as them, just because they advocate for a political cause you disagree with. I'm sure if this was done by FBI agents instead of a deranged 19 year old you guys would be changing your tunes.

Also, your point about teachers walking around the classroom is vile and sick. As if teachers have never had "metal health issues" or faced a "culture of nastiness". For people who are supposedly anti-authoritarian, you guys sure seem to overestimate how power dynamics will improve if everybody is packing heat.

If I were a school shooting victim, I wouldn't proceed to embarrass myself with politics. I would just vote if I were of age.

If I were a high schooler, I would feel much safer with responsibly owned guns in that building without a giant police presence to accompany. It's not sick and vile to have the availability to protect and save dozens of lives.

Okay. I'm not going to take seriously any hypothetical where you put yourself in the shoes of a school shooting victim because you've already shown a lack of empathy around this subject. Thanks though.

There were already armed guards present at the school. These children were not defenseless. Furthermore, how do you have any idea if the the guns in your school are "responsibly owned" if the only person in the school who we know had any experience with guns was Cruz himself? You are guaranteeing that it's legal for people like him to bring a gun into a school if you advocate for more gun presence in schools.

This whole narrative of "good guy with a gun" is bunk. There was a bystander carrying a weapon when Gabby Giffords was shot in Tucson. Not only was he unable to deter or stop the shooter, but he almost shot the wrong person because the scene was so chaotic. You're naive if you think that a bystander with a gun in a frenzied school is going to be effective enough to stop a shooter on a dime.

Yeah, and they didn't prevent 17 people from being killed, now did they?

And about the gun bystander, thats one person. Many people with a gun in the building as soon as the shooting starts could end the shooting maybe before a single person could be killed. This solution might not be perfect, but it is certainly better than leaving the entire school defenseless.

The Columbine shooters were able to kill 9+ people just with a shotgun. Banning assault rifles will not do anything to keep more lives from dying.

I think it's pretty dumb to expect A) that the whole school being armed with guns will deter a school shooter (considering that most shooters commit suicide when they are done anyway), B) that having several people firing guns simultaneously will subdue a shooter without chaos, confusion and collateral damage, and C) that you can expect a bunch of 16 year olds packing heat to act responsibly with their guns in the absence of a shooter (how is a teacher supposed to fairly evaluate/grade their students when he/she knows their students have a gun and can use lethal force in response to any negative stimulus?)

But, whatever. I'm not going to convince you. Just please don't act like these kids trying to prevent the most horrific thing in their lives from happening to other people are just naive attention whores because it makes you a huge asshole.

Its not perfect. But what is banning fast meany meany evil meany guns going to do when any gun can kill dozens of people?

First off, same argument goes the other way: what is teachers, other students, etc. going to do if one guy can still find a way to kill dozens of people when other people are armed? The Sutherland Springs shooter was confronted with people with guns after he killed 27 people. There was a bystander present when Jared Loughner shot Gabby Giffords who was unable to stop the shooting (and almost shot the wrong person). You're trying to beat a (straw man) argument by pointing out that it isn't perfect while acknowledging in your own post that your own argument is imperfect. What's up with that?

But more importantly, you (and many others on this board) are presenting a false dichotomy when it comes to gun control. From a practical perspective, I actually am not convinced that an weapons ban would stop mass shootings (although as a matter of personal idology I think certain types of weapons are unnecessary for citizens to own). There are a whole suite of nuanced gun control options that have lots of public support: banning bump stocks, universal background checks, etc. Here is a post that Joey1996 had in the first thread about this shooting that of course got ignored because people were arguing about something stupid.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Yes, and I've listed those things itt.

1. Universal background checks, that also account for social media posts.
2. Reconstitution of Obama era laws that prevent people who are deemed too unstable to handle their own funds from purchasing weapons.
3. An end of the gun show loophole.
4. A ban on weapon modifications which turn semi-automatic weaspons into fully automatic weapons.
5. Stricter laws against the movement of guns across state and county lines.
6. Preventing people on terrorist watch lists from purchasing weapons.

These are all reasonable gun regulations that all sides should agree to and will lower the amount of gun violence in this country.

What people on the right do every time there is a shooting is muddy the waters by turning every argument into an emotional appeal to "muh hunting rifle" or making blanket statements about how weapons bans will not solve the problem (which is a claim that hasn't been rigorously verified in any way). In the process, they shut down the entire discussion on gun control, effectively by attacking the most extreme position of the other side and using it as an excuse to ignore the entire rest of the gun regulation universe.

[Hollywood756]

There are a number of republicans on this board. I'd love to see one come here and explain this to us.

i'm not these people. The ones who say this sh!t are the authoritarian Russkie sympathizers.

Adding one more name to the list of republicans I'll give consideration to.

[Brittain33]

D'Souza actually apologized.

[DINGO Joe]

D'Souza actually apologized.

Not accepted.  He makes his living peddling conspiracy swill.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

As someone who is from South Florida, I can say with good authority that Parkland kids have tended to be the most preppy, arrogant, nasty, and pampered pack of kids I’ve ever encountered. Barring Boca kids at least. Up until last week my friends and I used to joke about them. My brother even bemoaned starting his job at the Jimmy Johns there because he didn’t want to work with them. The collective reputation of Parkland - and my experiences with Parkland kids - doesn’t change in spite of what happened. They in no way deserved this but I’ll be damned if a group of kids too scared to go down to MLK Blvd in Pompano to protest the regular killings of black youth due to crime/police/etc end up impacting this country’s two hundred year tradition of protecting the sanctity of our rights to bare arms.

They want to pimp out their friend’s deaths and make a statement? Well then we the people have the right to answer them. The ultimate victory of the NRA this time around will be an important life lesson for them anyway: you can’t always get what you want.

Come on, man, you're better than this

No he's not- what on earth makes you think he is?

Because I know from posts he’s made about his brother that he is capable of showing empathy for the suffering of others. 

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

They want to pimp out their friend’s deaths and make a statement? Well then we the people have the right to answer them. The ultimate victory of the NRA this time around will be an important life lesson for them anyway: you can’t always get what you want.

Mods please ban.

You can leave. You don't have to wait until you're banned.  If you want an echo chamber, go elsewhere.

What wonderful mods we have!

Thank you. Freedom includes the freedom to be an idiot. As long as people don't post lies or attacks, I have far better things to worry about than what a random poster posts. Calling people despicable or the like may be cathartic, but it doesn't win arguments.

As if what Sanchez posted is anything less than an attack on teenage victims of a school shooting.

[Doimper]

They want to pimp out their friend’s deaths and make a statement? Well then we the people have the right to answer them. The ultimate victory of the NRA this time around will be an important life lesson for them anyway: you can’t always get what you want.

Mods please ban.

You can leave. You don't have to wait until you're banned.  If you want an echo chamber, go elsewhere.

What wonderful mods we have!

Thank you. Freedom includes the freedom to be an idiot. As long as people don't post lies or attacks, I have far better things to worry about than what a random poster posts. Calling people despicable or the like may be cathartic, but it doesn't win arguments.

As if what Sanchez posted is anything less than an attack on teenage victims of a school shooting.

[Coastal Elitist]

The solution to this is not banning guns that go pew-pew-pew instead of pew... pew... pew...

There is a reason why school shooters are called criminals, because they break the law. Putting a "no guns allowed" sticker on the front entrance doesn't do smack. There needs to be defense in a school.

Imagine if there was another gun in that school, and another student stepped up and killed the shooter and saved 10+ lives. Thats not possible in schools nowadays, now is it? See, when there is a school shooter in a school building, you can only run or hide. Why not be able to stop it? Now I'm definitely not a Rush Limbaugh fan, he is a nut. But to be quite honest, I do believe that verified teachers should be able to responsibly bring and store a gun with restricted access in the classroom, office, closet, etc. Saving lives is better than not being able to do anything at all.

And I definitely do not trust the judgement of high schoolers who have basically no understanding of politics, who just love being used as political pawns by democratic politicians. Teenagers nowadays are
blinded by their fantasies of social justice and the thinking that their protesting can ever make wise adults much smarter than them even feel a bit sympathetic for them. I did not feel sad at all when I saw their little smirks of "hope" and "change" get wiped off their face via the power of our constitution. I always have sympathy for people who have witnessed and lost so much, and for them it must be terrible. But gun control is not the answer.

These are 14 YEAR OLDS who just saw their friends MURDERED IN FRONT OF THEM. And you're going to tell me they've landed on gun control out of some sort of uninformed naivety?

Bullshit that you have any sympathy for these people. You just cheered on a monster who compared their plight to not getting a summer job because he was on your team and they weren't.

Polarization in this country is so much worse than I thought if it leads to a sizable number of conservatives failing to empathize at all with children who just witnessed 17 people gunned down in the same building as them, just because they advocate for a political cause you disagree with. I'm sure if this was done by FBI agents instead of a deranged 19 year old you guys would be changing your tunes.

Also, your point about teachers walking around the classroom is vile and sick. As if teachers have never had "metal health issues" or faced a "culture of nastiness". For people who are supposedly anti-authoritarian, you guys sure seem to overestimate how power dynamics will improve if everybody is packing heat.

If I were a school shooting victim, I wouldn't proceed to embarrass myself with politics. I would just vote if I were of age.

If I were a high schooler, I would feel much safer with responsibly owned guns in that building without a giant police presence to accompany. It's not sick and vile to have the availability to protect and save dozens of lives.

Okay. I'm not going to take seriously any hypothetical where you put yourself in the shoes of a school shooting victim because you've already shown a lack of empathy around this subject. Thanks though.

There were already armed guards present at the school. These children were not defenseless. Furthermore, how do you have any idea if the the guns in your school are "responsibly owned" if the only person in the school who we know had any experience with guns was Cruz himself? You are guaranteeing that it's legal for people like him to bring a gun into a school if you advocate for more gun presence in schools.

This whole narrative of "good guy with a gun" is bunk. There was a bystander carrying a weapon when Gabby Giffords was shot in Tucson. Not only was he unable to deter or stop the shooter, but he almost shot the wrong person because the scene was so chaotic. You're naive if you think that a bystander with a gun in a frenzied school is going to be effective enough to stop a shooter on a dime.

Yeah, and they didn't prevent 17 people from being killed, now did they?

And about the gun bystander, thats one person. Many people with a gun in the building as soon as the shooting starts could end the shooting maybe before a single person could be killed. This solution might not be perfect, but it is certainly better than leaving the entire school defenseless.

The Columbine shooters were able to kill 9+ people just with a shotgun. Banning assault rifles will not do anything to keep more lives from dying.

I think it's pretty dumb to expect A) that the whole school being armed with guns will deter a school shooter (considering that most shooters commit suicide when they are done anyway), B) that having several people firing guns simultaneously will subdue a shooter without chaos, confusion and collateral damage, and C) that you can expect a bunch of 16 year olds packing heat to act responsibly with their guns in the absence of a shooter (how is a teacher supposed to fairly evaluate/grade their students when he/she knows their students have a gun and can use lethal force in response to any negative stimulus?)

But, whatever. I'm not going to convince you. Just please don't act like these kids trying to prevent the most horrific thing in their lives from happening to other people are just naive attention whores because it makes you a huge asshole.

Its not perfect. But what is banning fast meany meany evil meany guns going to do when any gun can kill dozens of people?

I like how you didn't respond to me. So basically you're solution is to turn schools into prisons. These shootings don't last very long there is very little chance that someone would have the opportunity to return fire. Also how would you stop the Las Vegas Shooting. Even if all those concertgoers were armed it wouldn't have made a difference. You can't return fire from that distance.

[publicunofficial]

The solution to this is not banning guns that go pew-pew-pew instead of pew... pew... pew...

There is a reason why school shooters are called criminals, because they break the law. Putting a "no guns allowed" sticker on the front entrance doesn't do smack. There needs to be defense in a school.

Imagine if there was another gun in that school, and another student stepped up and killed the shooter and saved 10+ lives. Thats not possible in schools nowadays, now is it? See, when there is a school shooter in a school building, you can only run or hide. Why not be able to stop it? Now I'm definitely not a Rush Limbaugh fan, he is a nut. But to be quite honest, I do believe that verified teachers should be able to responsibly bring and store a gun with restricted access in the classroom, office, closet, etc. Saving lives is better than not being able to do anything at all.

And I definitely do not trust the judgement of high schoolers who have basically no understanding of politics, who just love being used as political pawns by democratic politicians. Teenagers nowadays are
blinded by their fantasies of social justice and the thinking that their protesting can ever make wise adults much smarter than them even feel a bit sympathetic for them. I did not feel sad at all when I saw their little smirks of "hope" and "change" get wiped off their face via the power of our constitution. I always have sympathy for people who have witnessed and lost so much, and for them it must be terrible. But gun control is not the answer.

These are 14 YEAR OLDS who just saw their friends MURDERED IN FRONT OF THEM. And you're going to tell me they've landed on gun control out of some sort of uninformed naivety?

Bullshit that you have any sympathy for these people. You just cheered on a monster who compared their plight to not getting a summer job because he was on your team and they weren't.

Polarization in this country is so much worse than I thought if it leads to a sizable number of conservatives failing to empathize at all with children who just witnessed 17 people gunned down in the same building as them, just because they advocate for a political cause you disagree with. I'm sure if this was done by FBI agents instead of a deranged 19 year old you guys would be changing your tunes.

Also, your point about teachers walking around the classroom is vile and sick. As if teachers have never had "metal health issues" or faced a "culture of nastiness". For people who are supposedly anti-authoritarian, you guys sure seem to overestimate how power dynamics will improve if everybody is packing heat.

If I were a school shooting victim, I wouldn't proceed to embarrass myself with politics. I would just vote if I were of age.

If you were a school shooting victim, you'd be dead.

[Sestak]

Armed guards in school will work...until of course a guard decides to shoot up some kids.

[Hollywood756]

I've actually been thinking a bit about the idea of arming teachers.

More specifically- I like to put things in term of empirical claims. It is an empirical claim that "an armed teacher will help reduce the lives lost in schools."

So we can test that. Here's what I propose:

Get about 35 volunteers. rent a paintball park. there's one person who is a teacher- and why not get an actual teacher to volunteer, I bet you could find one- there are 32 "students", and 2 "shooters".  Use money- students and teachers get paid for surviving, shooters get paid per tagged student.

Get an urban combat setup at the paintball park. Put the teacher and the students in the room. Let's say that every test is 20 minutes long.   

Randomly, through those tests, the shooters come or don't.   Can the teacher react well enough to prevent harm?

Let's add a second complication: all the students have backpacks. Randomly, one of the students will pull a paintball marker out of their backpack- the shooter is already in the room. Will teachers be effective in this situation? will they be more prone to accidentally shooting a student who was reaching into their backpack for something innocuous?

[publicunofficial]

Armed guards in school will work...until of course a guard decides to shoot up some kids.

A white teacher shooting an unruly black student because "they feared for their own safety"

[Suburbia]

Armed guards in school will work...until of course a guard decides to shoot up some kids.

A white teacher shooting an unruly black student because "they feared for their own safety"

A black teacher shooting a white student because of "suburban white privilege". Can't wait to see that happen. The left would eat that up.