France is bringing back compulsory military service for young people

[swl]

Macron to the press: "this service will not be a military service" I guess you can move on

[136or142]

Nothing is done yet.

The logistical and financial problems are enormous to restore a mandatory military service of 6 months.
- The military doesn't have the money to finance it
- They do not have enough men to supervise young people
- They do not have the barracks to house them

The Parliament is much more cautious about this idea, they are proposing a reinforcement of civic education in middle school, one week of service during the summer holidays at 16 years old, and regrouping all the current voluntary services.

Compulsory service has its worth, sure. While in the rest of the western world college kids are... well, college kids, here university students are (more or less) grown-up adults with level heads. But it's just not worth it. A Militarized society isn't worth it, and forcing 16 year olds to give up a week of their summer holidays to suffer in the military definitely isn't a good idea. France should just not do it, as simple as that. You don't need that, you shouldn't make your people go through that.

I'm against any change to the current system of military service (one day when you are 18), but I don't think young people will suffer with a week in the military, which will likely to be an extended version of the current day of military service: passing some kind of french tests, receiving some lectures on the Republic and the army, first aid training, ...
This would be a waste of time but nothing more.

First aid training is a waste of time?

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

The draft is the most immoral social construct ever.

It is even worse would appear to someone thinking about the topic from inside the box.

Inside the box: People are being forced into dangerous life threatening situations, and having several years of their life stolen from them without their consent.

Outside the box: Military sign up rates (and desertion rates, which is something that should be legal) in general should function as a sort of national referendum on whether the war itself is justified, and if the country deserves to succeed in wartime. By implementing a draft, countries are taking an important aspect of national accountability out of the situation, and subverting the ability of the people to veto war.

[parochial boy]

Lol. If it's anything like Switzerland, most people will get a sicknote and never have to do it

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

I hate the thought behind obligatory national service, but in effect, it doesn't seem like much will occur in France.

[136or142]

Inside the box: People are being forced into dangerous life threatening situations, and having several years of their life stolen from them without their consent.

I believe you are thinking of high school and not military service.

[Famous Mortimer]

Good policy. France is ethnically divided. A civil war in the next 50 years is more likely than not. This is a last ditch attempt to create a sense of national unity by subjecting everyone to mass indoctrination by the last vestige of conservative authority in the country (the military). I hope it works. If it fails, at least the indigenous population of France will have gained some needed military skills, otherwise they would be hopeless against France's non-indigenous population.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

A professional military creates a specific class of people that do all of a nation's fighting for it. They can become, in the minds of policymakers and the public, a disposable resource. The access to benefits that the military grants is meanwhile making it far more the province of immigrants and aspects of the lower-classes. It becomes possible--and easy--to wage a war in some remote, forgotten theater somewhere around the equator while the vast majority of society continues business as usual. This doesn't strike me as a wholly good phenomenon. On the other hand, a professional military allows for the formation of institutional knowledge even at the bottom; nevertheless, this has its own handful of problems as we see men serve several tours of duty in the same dangerous areas.

[DavidB.]

Good policy. France is ethnically divided. A civil war in the next 50 years is more likely than not. This is a last ditch attempt to create a sense of national unity by subjecting everyone to mass indoctrination by the last vestige of conservative authority in the country (the military). I hope it works. If it fails, at least the indigenous population of France will have gained some needed military skills, otherwise they would be hopeless against France's non-indigenous population.

The America scenario (segregation, ghettoization, rampant violent crime, erosion of the welfare state due to a lack of solidarity, skyrocketing inequality) is a much more likely long-term scenario than civil war (and almost as disastrous).

Regardless, universal military service is a good means for a bit more social cohesion in a heterogeneous society in order to make sure the America scenario does not materialize, and it is good for young people to become more disciplined and to be able to defend themselves and their country if necessary.

[thumb21]

Ineffective, immoral and useless policy. What makes an effective military these days is not size. Tactics, morale and weaponry are much more important. If France wants an effective military, it should focus on these things. Besides, France doesn't really face any real military threats.

[Famous Mortimer]

Ineffective, immoral and useless policy. What makes an effective military these days is not size. Tactics, morale and weaponry are much more important. If France wants an effective military, it should focus on these things. Besides, France doesn't really face any real military threats.

As I already said, they are doing this for social reasons, not military reasons.

[Blair]

One of my slightly more draconian policy ideas when I had to apply for an internship was to tie higher/further education funding to universal public service- basically say to people if you do 6/12 months of public service you'll get free college/training. My thinking was that it would combine redistribution and free education (which is good) with a sense of civic contribution (which can be good).

But yes this policy seems like something that is really defined by the details; if it's wanting people to just do a month or so that seems much easier, than full on national service.

[Kingpoleon]

Long live Napoleon IV! Suspend Parliament and elections!

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Ineffective, immoral and useless policy. What makes an effective military these days is not size. Tactics, morale and weaponry are much more important. If France wants an effective military, it should focus on these things. Besides, France doesn't really face any real military threats.

As I already said, they are doing this for social reasons, not military reasons.

This is absurd. Its a violation of fundemental human rights and it's not draconian way of interrupting young people's plans and ambitions. The state not exist to provide social cohesion and solidarity. It exists to provide services in exchange for tax dollars. Besides, there's nothing wrong with the atomization and globalization of society.

[Famous Mortimer]

Ineffective, immoral and useless policy. What makes an effective military these days is not size. Tactics, morale and weaponry are much more important. If France wants an effective military, it should focus on these things. Besides, France doesn't really face any real military threats.

As I already said, they are doing this for social reasons, not military reasons.

This is absurd. Its a violation of fundemental human rights and it's not draconian way of interrupting young people's plans and ambitions. The state not exist to provide social cohesion and solidarity. It exists to provide services in exchange for tax dollars. Besides, there's nothing wrong with the atomization and globalization of society.

Oh, I get it. This is a parody account.

[Famous Mortimer]

You had me until "atomization is good". Laying it on a little too hard there.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

You had me until "atomization is good". Laying it on a little too hard there.

How is it not?

[Del Tachi]

Freedom policy.

[Helsinkian]

This is absurd. Its a violation of fundemental human rights and it's not draconian way of interrupting young people's plans and ambitions. The state not exist to provide social cohesion and solidarity. It exists to provide services in exchange for tax dollars. Besides, there's nothing wrong with the atomization and globalization of society.

The terminology of "fundamental human rights" was first formulated during the French Revolution. Revolutionary France was also the first country to institute universal conscription in its modern form.

It is not unreasonable to say that citizenship entails both rights and duties. Those who say that "conscription is slavery" are not much better than the libertarians who say that "taxation is theft".

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

This is absurd. Its a violation of fundemental human rights and it's not draconian way of interrupting young people's plans and ambitions. The state not exist to provide social cohesion and solidarity. It exists to provide services in exchange for tax dollars. Besides, there's nothing wrong with the atomization and globalization of society.

The terminology of "fundamental human rights" was first formulated during the French Revolution. Revolutionary France was also the first country to institute universal conscription in its modern form.

It is not unreasonable to say that citizenship entails both rights and duties. Those who say that "conscription is slavery" are not much better than the libertarians who say that "taxation is theft".

Conscription is even worse than Slavery.

Slavery is the idea that your work choices belong not to you but to someone else, and that someone else has a responsibility to keep you safe from life threatening situations.

Conscription is the idea that your work choices belong not to you but to someone else, and that someone else has no responsibility to keep you safe from life threatening situations.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

This is absurd. Its a violation of fundemental human rights and it's not draconian way of interrupting young people's plans and ambitions. The state not exist to provide social cohesion and solidarity. It exists to provide services in exchange for tax dollars. Besides, there's nothing wrong with the atomization and globalization of society.

The terminology of "fundamental human rights" was first formulated during the French Revolution. Revolutionary France was also the first country to institute universal conscription in its modern form.

It is not unreasonable to say that citizenship entails both rights and duties. Those who say that "conscription is slavery" are not much better than the libertarians who say that "taxation is theft".

Except taxation is necessary and conscription is not.

[Helsinkian]

Conscription is even worse than Slavery.

Slavery is the idea that your work choices belong not to you but to someone else, and that someone else has a responsibility to keep you safe from life threatening situations.

Conscription is the idea that your work choices belong not to you but to someone else, and that someone else has no responsibility to keep you safe from life threatening situations.

And a libertarian would say: "Taxation is the idea that the fruits of your work belong not to you but to someone else". Would you agree with that as well?

Except taxation is necessary and conscription is not.

If it's not necessary then why did almost all countries that participated in World War II practice it?