17 Dead in Florida. GOP does nothing.

[Cold War Liberal]

There's not going to be any meaningful gun control. Republicans won't do it and despite the bluster Democrats won't either when they get back power in fear of political backlash. This debate doesn't even get me riled up or emotional anymore. Just stay safe as best as you can.

[Joey1996]

This country is sick, and it disgusts me.

Come on, don't go that far. This is by far the best country in the world, and some nuts and complacents are not going to ruin it for me, don't let it ruin it for you either.

Lol the country with the largest incarceration rate in the world, highest wealth inequality amongst developed nations and which averages 30k deaths per year due to a lack of health coverage is the best country in the world? Not to mention the fact that it's bombing 5+ countries that it's not even at war with.

[Joey1996]

Guns aren't the problem; America's rampant poverty and lack of adequate mental health care (particularly in this situation) are the problems. Countries such as Switzerland have similarly lax gun laws, yet significantly lower gun related crime rates.

I agree with this, and the general far lefty position that gun control would disproportionately target black and brown gun owners as it has it has in the past, but I see no harm in supporting universal background checks.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Just look at Vermont. It's proof gun laws themselves change little to nothing.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Ugh. Antonin Scalia (RIP - HP) has a lot of blood on his hands.

[Edu]

Maybe this is because I'm either stupid or foreigner (or both) but, what is with all this talk about mental health and rampant poverty? is there a gene somewhere that makes you mentally unhealthy just by living in the USA? I mean, I'm pretty sure that the US has a better mental healthcare system that a lot of third world countries yet these random mass shootings (especially school shootings) that seem to happen every week there are pretty rare in other countries. Not to mention that there are several countries (to say the least) with more rampant poverty than the US.

The argument that these third world countries instead of mass shooting themselves have a crime problem that replaces the insanity you have is also pretty much nonsense since you guys have also gangland shootings and whatnot. And maybe I'm wrong (correct me otherwise) but it seems that most of these random mass murders aren't being perpetrated by poor minorities.

Here in Argentina we are poor and have a deficient public health care system and the homicides that happen are in most cases a result of poverty. When was our last school shooting where a guy tried to kill a bunch of other people? The only one I can remember happened like 15 years ago.

[Dr. Arch]

Maybe this is because I'm either stupid or foreigner (or both) but, what is with all this talk about mental health and rampant poverty? is there a gene somewhere that makes you mentally unhealthy just by living in the USA? I mean, I'm pretty sure that the US has a better mental healthcare system that a lot of third world countries yet these random mass shootings (especially school shootings) that seem to happen every week there are pretty rare in other countries. Not to mention that there are several countries (to say the least) with more rampant poverty than the US.

The argument that these third world countries instead of mass shooting themselves have a crime problem that replaces the insanity you have is also pretty much nonsense since you guys have also gangland shootings and whatnot. And maybe I'm wrong (correct me otherwise) but it seems that most of these random mass murders aren't being perpetrated by poor minorities.

Here in Argentina we are poor and have a deficient public health care system and the homicides that happen are in most cases a result of poverty. When was our last school shooting where a guy tried to kill a bunch of other people? The only one I can remember happened like 15 years ago.

No, you're absolutely right. Puerto Rico is in a similar spot (in terms of poverty, but not quite in terms of healthcare), and these are not a thing. Yes, there's a lot of gang violence and gun-related violence, but mass shootings are extremely rare (even with the 2nd amendment still being there).

The biggest difference is that it's not easy to get a gun, and, because Puerto Rico is an island (technically an archipelago), there's no easy way to bring in a gun from, say, another state where it is easy to acquire a gun. The difference is palpable.


More on PR gun laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Puerto_Rico

"Individuals who wish to purchase a firearm to keep at home must be 21 years or older, be a US citizen or legal resident of Puerto Rico, never have renounced US citizenship, not be under a restraining order, submit a notarized application, three character references from individuals who are not close relatives of the applicant, proof of non-delinquency in child support payments, fingerprints, photographs, and pay a $100 fee. The license holder is limited to possessing two firearms (there is an exception for firearms acquired through inheritance), purchasing up to 50 bullets per year per firearm possessed, and may only purchase ammunition of the firearms' caliber. If any of the bullets are used or lost, police authorization is required in order to replenish them. After the license is granted, the police are authorized to "passively, without disturbing the peace and tranquility of the individual under investigation or violating the privacy of the home"[7] continue investigating the license holder to ensure that no false information was provided by the applicant during the application process. The license must be renewed every five years by submitting a sworn statement and paying a $100 fee."

[America Needs R'hllor]

Just look at Vermont. It's proof gun laws themselves change little to nothing.

No, don't look at a tiny state and take an example from it.
Just look at the entire damn world- it's proof that gun laws DO have a huge effect. Seriously, mass shootings have become your national sport, the rest of us just don't have that.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Just look at Vermont. It's proof gun laws themselves change little to nothing.

No, don't look at a tiny state and take an example from it.
Just look at the entire damn world- it's proof that gun laws DO have a huge effect. Seriously, mass shootings have become your national sport, the rest of us just don't have that.

I mean, something like a universal background check requirement and all that is sensible. Something like a ban on bump stocks and a ban on assault weapons is sensible. Those things aren't really relevant enough to the rural lifestyle that they ought to be kept legal, and even if they are, that it's worth the cost urban dwellers might pay for that.
But these laws don't actually change things as much as people think. If society itself doesn't operate on a common sense-run ethos, that can make gun control laws worthless. Laws and institutions only operate as effectively as the people allow them to - gun laws is just one more example of that.
The moral of the story is, one size doesn't fit all - and it's ridiculous to assume that is good for New York City in terms of gun policy, is also good for Wyoming or rural Minnesota. It doesn't work like that.
It would be pretty insulting to America's many tens of millions of rural people that they would have to endure New York City-style gun control. They don't live like New Yorkers. Why should they have to suffer from city-centric gun policy that doesn't take into account the living needs of rural voters?
Instead of trying to impose this on rural people, we should be trying to reduce the underlying causes of why people misuse guns. It's not mainly the guns themselves.

[BlueSwan]

Please, can we for once not broadcast the identity of the shooter?

I agree. Getting that attention is surely one of the driving forces behind these insane acts. Also, by publicizing the identity you open the door for the usual fearmongering if the shooter happened to be a member of some minority you can villainize.

"Insane person shoots a bunch of innocent people" should be enough coverage.

[parochial boy]

Countries such as Switzerland have similarly lax gun laws, yet significantly lower gun related crime rates.

Not really similar no. Swiss gun laws are liberal by European standards, but really, really not comparable to the US. (and the laws have been tightened up quite a bit over the last decade or so as there was a  big problem with kids on military service blowing their brains out with their army rifles).

[Beet]

Maybe this is because I'm either stupid or foreigner (or both) but, what is with all this talk about mental health and rampant poverty? is there a gene somewhere that makes you mentally unhealthy just by living in the USA? I mean, I'm pretty sure that the US has a better mental healthcare system that a lot of third world countries yet these random mass shootings (especially school shootings) that seem to happen every week there are pretty rare in other countries. Not to mention that there are several countries (to say the least) with more rampant poverty than the US.

Thank you. It's like people will reach for anything to avoid the obvious.

Of course, the problem is, at base mental; the gun rights folks are right to say that guns themselves are not the problem. However, the mental problem is not that a few people out of hundreds of millions are willing to commit mass slaughter, but the hundreds of millions being unable to reasonably regulate firearms in response, and which give guns this almost mythic violent purpose. So yes, there is a mental problem: a mental problem with society's attitude toward guns.

[afleitch]

It's more wide reaching than that.

'THE GREATESY COUNTRY ON EARTH' can't accept psychologically that it has a problem with anything, from guns, to healthcare to education that other countries clearly do better with because you're told and tell yourself that America is 'TGCOE.'

[Joey1996]

Maybe this is because I'm either stupid or foreigner (or both) but, what is with all this talk about mental health and rampant poverty? is there a gene somewhere that makes you mentally unhealthy just by living in the USA? I mean, I'm pretty sure that the US has a better mental healthcare system that a lot of third world countries yet these random mass shootings (especially school shootings) that seem to happen every week there are pretty rare in other countries. Not to mention that there are several countries (to say the least) with more rampant poverty than the US.

The argument that these third world countries instead of mass shooting themselves have a crime problem that replaces the insanity you have is also pretty much nonsense since you guys have also gangland shootings and whatnot. And maybe I'm wrong (correct me otherwise) but it seems that most of these random mass murders aren't being perpetrated by poor minorities.

Here in Argentina we are poor and have a deficient public health care system and the homicides that happen are in most cases a result of poverty. When was our last school shooting where a guy tried to kill a bunch of other people? The only one I can remember happened like 15 years ago.

The US has a ridiculous gun culture and obsession with violence, this obviously has a very negative effect on susceptible people with mental illness. The name of killer in yesterday's shooting Is currently trending on Twitter, like always he has become a celebrity and it's only inspiring the next killer to do the same. Our healthcare system is nothing more than a for-profit industry and many pyschiatrists are nothing more than glorified drug dealers, a lot of anti-depressant drugs are overprescribed and only exacerbate the issue.

While the media mainly focuses on these senseless mass shootings, most gun homicides in the US are gang and drug related and are a direct effect of poverty.

[Tekken_Guy]

Mental health is an issue that's also downplayed here. Why can't we address both mental health and gun control at the same time? Focusing on where the two intersect will get us closer to solving the crisis.

[Dr Oz Lost Party!]

"It's a mental health problem," "The teachers need guns," "This is why gun control laws don't work," I am sick and tired of people making excuses for why a bunch of innocent children were just killed in their school. Democrats care, but I have seen so many Republicans using the same old talking points like I mentioned before.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Guns aren't the problem; America's rampant poverty and lack of adequate mental health care (particularly in this situation) are the problems. Countries such as Switzerland have similarly lax gun laws, yet significantly lower gun related crime rates.

That’s just not true, Switzerland has significant restrictions on gun ownership that the US lacks.

[Joey1996]

The left doesn't seem to realize how an out right ban on guns will increase our already ridiculous prison incarceration rates and that most victims of new gun restrictions would be black and brown. What we need for the time being is common sense gun laws like universal background checks and a ban on modifications that turn semi-automatic weapons into machine guns. Then we need to focus on fixing our culture which is obsessed with mass violence, and which gives killers a platform for their twisted ideas. I'd be very happy if the media stops using this guy's  name and doesnt make a spectacle of his trial.  

[Blair]

The mental health argument would be a lot more believable if those on the right who spout it, actually put money into local, state and federal budgets to cover mental health care, and actually cared  about all the time (rather than just bringing it up after a shooting).

It's also questionable whether a massive expansion in mental health care would reduce school shootings, or even gun violence at large. 'Mental Illness' is such a large spectrum- so it's not like we can just flip a switch and suddenly stop gun massacres. It's like saying let's stop climate change by building a single wind turbine; sure it will make a tiny difference, but will it stop this from happening? No.

As awful as it sounds after a mass shooting, the real problem is that firearms make suicides, accidents, domestic abuse etc much more prevalent.

People in the UK always say 'why can't they just fix it.', and well just look at how ing useless Congress is at doing anything; it's shutdown twice in the last month, it's been funding itself about two months at a time, and designed to stop any form of effective gun control actually passing.

[BuckeyeNut]

Guns aren't the problem; America's rampant poverty and lack of adequate mental health care (particularly in this situation) are the problems. Countries such as Switzerland have similarly lax gun laws, yet significantly lower gun related crime rates.

I agree with this, and the general far lefty position that gun control would disproportionately target black and brown gun owners as it has it has in the past, but I see no harm in supporting universal background checks.

Don't be a dingbat.

The reason Switzerland and other countries with lax gun laws don't have the issues we have are 1) mandatory service in the military and 2) even with lax laws, no other country has nearly as many guns as we do.[/list]

[Joey1996]

Guns aren't the problem; America's rampant poverty and lack of adequate mental health care (particularly in this situation) are the problems. Countries such as Switzerland have similarly lax gun laws, yet significantly lower gun related crime rates.

I agree with this, and the general far lefty position that gun control would disproportionately target black and brown gun owners as it has it has in the past, but I see no harm in supporting universal background checks.

Don't be a dingbat.

The reason Switzerland and other countries with lax gun laws don't have the issues we have are 1) mandatory service in the military and 2) even with lax laws, no other country has nearly as many guns as we do.[/list]

Are you talking to me? Not sure how I'm being a 'dingbat' by stating that an all out ban on guns would result in more black and brown people in jail. Ronald Reagan banned open carry in California because of scary black people protesting, even Bernie Sanders who I support thinks gun control should be implemented more so in urban areas than rural ones. With anything dangerous, especially weapons, we need regulation but abolition isn't the answer.

[Gass3268]

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Guns aren't the problem; America's rampant poverty and lack of adequate mental health care (particularly in this situation) are the problems. Countries such as Switzerland have similarly lax gun laws, yet significantly lower gun related crime rates.

Sounds like you're saying the problem is Republicans. I can agree with that.

[darklordoftech]

FWIW, the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Gun-Free Schools Act of 1994 are still in effect.

[DabbingSanta]

The government needs to put aside politics and place sensible gun laws to protect US citizens.